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Profile Cori
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Message 37075 - Posted: 9 Mar 2010, 12:00:34 UTC

I am glad I am such a lazy cat... I am just way too lazy to go around and abort WUs I don't like to crunch en masse.
Nor am I experienced enough to use scripts. So I can just let my ATI card crunch whatever it gets. *yum yum*
And AFAICS I'm still getting my fair share of short ones, too so I can't complain. ;-)))

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Message 37076 - Posted: 9 Mar 2010, 12:27:23 UTC
Last modified: 9 Mar 2010, 12:28:33 UTC

I think it is in the responsibility of any self respecting BOINC project to make sure that WUs with expected runtimes of only one eighth of the "normal" WUs are paid appropriately. Just to hope that nobody sees it and all crunchers will crunch the same mix of WUs is naive when every half-baked programmer can come up with means to automatically abort the "longer" WUs in less than 5 minutes.

Profile Tomasz R. Gwiazda
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Message 37078 - Posted: 9 Mar 2010, 12:33:57 UTC - in response to Message 37076.

it's already happening.
Some top crunchers are using this "bug", that's why they hide their host
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Message 37079 - Posted: 9 Mar 2010, 12:39:39 UTC
Last modified: 9 Mar 2010, 12:42:17 UTC

I've sent a PM to Travis about it, whether he responds or not is another thing. Somebody PM'ed me saying they PM'ed the Admin too but that they have never got a response so I don't really expect one either. As long as a Project is getting their work done I don't think they really give a rip how or who's doing it or by what means it's being done either.
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John Clark
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Message 37082 - Posted: 9 Mar 2010, 13:10:29 UTC
Last modified: 9 Mar 2010, 13:11:34 UTC

The main problem of letting those filtering out the normal WUs in favour of the shorts is the build up of the longer ones on reissue. If this is taken to an extreme then there would be a build up of normal work. This happened over at SETI many years ago, as well, so it's not new.

Just my 2p worth.
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Message 37090 - Posted: 9 Mar 2010, 14:46:47 UTC - in response to Message 37082.

It seems to me that the cheating is already going on and due to the massive aborting of longer WUs, some of them get never crunched, wasting project's resources.
http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/workunit.php?wuid=70408603
Here is this scenario. WU aborted by one abort-happy user, then by another, results in wasted WU.
Come on, all aborted WUs one minute after receiving them ? Hosts don't display owner (anonymous), so it's up to project admins to search the database.
How much the ratio of such permanently errored WUs increased due to this practice i wonder.

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Message 37091 - Posted: 9 Mar 2010, 15:49:20 UTC - in response to Message 37082.
Last modified: 9 Mar 2010, 15:50:10 UTC

So do we all just start cheating?

Im going to make it a goal to get the script running and I will post it here for everyone once I do get it working.

Then everyone can cheat, and MW staff will be forced to do something.

PLEASE FIX THIS ERROR IMMEDIATELY

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Message 37093 - Posted: 9 Mar 2010, 16:21:42 UTC
Last modified: 9 Mar 2010, 16:27:23 UTC

Sooo... (when they once "wake up" again)
Why dont the MW-staff add a script themselves, to make sure
that the long WU`s goes to GPU`s and the short WU`s goes to CPU`s?
That would make sure both sorts of WU`s would be crunched, it would
be easier for everyone to participate - and no cheating "needed". ;-))
For some strange reason, I find that to be the best.. :p

Well.. enjoy yourself, guys - I follow it from the sideline..
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Message 37094 - Posted: 9 Mar 2010, 16:41:06 UTC - in response to Message 37093.

why not change the granted credit for those types of WU's to 10 and watch what happens next? ;)

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Message 37095 - Posted: 9 Mar 2010, 17:13:51 UTC - in response to Message 37094.

why not change the granted credit for those types of WU's to 10 and watch what happens next? ;)

haha, there you go, I like that ;) ever better, make it 1

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Message 37096 - Posted: 9 Mar 2010, 17:28:59 UTC - in response to Message 37095.

Then they will switch to aborting those, which will still burden the project's servers.
What should happen is reduce granted credits of those shorter WUs accordingly to their runtime and some kind of repercussions for those sabotaging projects work by abusing this (hopefully) temporary gap.
Just a clear message to those abusing project's resources, that such behavior won't be tolerated.
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Matthew
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Message 37097 - Posted: 9 Mar 2010, 17:29:12 UTC

New "de_14" WUs will stop being made today or tomorrow; the next set of runs will have longer WUs. We try to keep the WUs the same length between runs so that everything crunches at the same speed.

Travis is currently away due to a family matter; When he gets back, I will ask him to look into making the credits proportional to WU size. (It's only fair)

-Matthew

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Message 37098 - Posted: 9 Mar 2010, 17:39:20 UTC - in response to Message 37097.

Alright, thanks. Hopefully that will render current abort craziness pointless.
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Message 37101 - Posted: 9 Mar 2010, 18:01:52 UTC - in response to Message 37098.

just check out daily team stats and you know who is behind this..

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Message 37102 - Posted: 9 Mar 2010, 18:07:23 UTC - in response to Message 37053.

I take what I am given in workunits be they short or long. If some people are filtering out the longer ones then I think that is unfair to the rest of us that are playing straight. :-(


It has never occured to me to pick and choose between WUs to get advantage and perhaps (even if only by default) disadvantage others or the project. But then so many tricks are played, I think it is disgraceful that nobody is telling me about them. A PM will do ;)

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frankhagen
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Message 37103 - Posted: 9 Mar 2010, 18:15:13 UTC - in response to Message 37102.
Last modified: 9 Mar 2010, 18:16:01 UTC

It has never occured to me to pick and choose between WUs to get advantage and perhaps (even if only by default) disadvantage others or the project. But then so many tricks are played, I think it is disgraceful that nobody is telling me about them. A PM will do ;)


you are probably on the wrong team - just managed to dig out something like
"Nowa wersja miodzia podana na internie. The new version of honey given to the interni. 7NBI"

wonder what that was about?

Robert7NBI
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Message 37104 - Posted: 9 Mar 2010, 18:29:18 UTC - in response to Message 37103.
Last modified: 9 Mar 2010, 18:36:42 UTC

wonder what that was about?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mead
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frankhagen
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Message 37105 - Posted: 9 Mar 2010, 18:40:01 UTC - in response to Message 37104.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mead


yup - this is what happens if you have a daily overdose of that..

SNAFU!

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Message 37107 - Posted: 9 Mar 2010, 20:26:19 UTC - in response to Message 37097.

New "de_14" WUs will stop being made today or tomorrow; the next set of runs will have longer WUs. We try to keep the WUs the same length between runs so that everything crunches at the same speed.

Travis is currently away due to a family matter; When he gets back, I will ask him to look into making the credits proportional to WU size. (It's only fair)

-Matthew


That's the best thing to do, even if there is 1 Second difference in the Wu's somebody will figure that out and run only the ones 1 Second shorter. So the best thing to do if there is going to be a difference in the size of the WU's is to adjust the Credit's appropriately so each receives the same Per Hour Credit that the other does ... Thank's Matthew

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Message 37108 - Posted: 9 Mar 2010, 21:19:55 UTC

Well, Everyone has his right to 15 mins. of disgrace...

And sending squick WU's to CPU and long WU's to GPU won't solve the problem. GPU systems present themselves as CPU only systems and voilà, there you go. Didn't GPU crunching took of for milkyway this way ?

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