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Message 47190 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 6:02:52 UTC

So I figured while everything was breaking and people are already mad at us for having to wipe the workunit and result tables from the database, it would be time to deprecate the old ATI GPU applications. From here on out, we'll not be generating a parameter file for the applications (as all the new versions accept these from the command line which significantly cuts down on the servers file IO), and we'll not be accepting results coming in a file (all the new versions write the result to standard error which goes right into the database, also saving us a lot of file IO).

Matt A is updating the ATI application so they'll be available and automatically downloaded when new work is generated, but for people with customized app info and who are using old versions of the ATI application this is fair warning. We should probably be generating new work sometime this weekend, and the workunits being sent out will break with the older versions of the ATI applications.
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Message 47191 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 6:11:01 UTC - in response to Message 47190.
Last modified: 9 Apr 2011, 6:12:45 UTC

I was actually going to put these up for testing when I figured I would fix a few problems with the scheduler prompting the whole server upgrade disaster. In any case, I have only tested these on a Radeon 5870 (since my 4870 overheats and kills my system if I try running anything on it, and I don't have a 38XX or 69XX), so testing that it works on 38xx, 48xx, 69xx is a good idea.

This is also a complete rewrite since we never had the source for the old one. There's also now a Linux 64 bit version (and a 32 bit build is on my todo list).

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Message 47192 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 6:11:05 UTC - in response to Message 47190.
Last modified: 9 Apr 2011, 6:12:45 UTC


Matt A is updating the ATI application so they'll be available and automatically downloaded when new work is generated, but for people with customized app info and who are using old versions of the ATI application this is fair warning. We should probably be generating new work sometime this weekend, and the workunits being sent out will break with the older versions of the ATI applications.



The questions is how does the 'new' app perform copmpared to the old one(Gipsel) ?

Does it come even close performance wise or is it nowhere near that ?
Some realistic numbers would be nice to see if it'S worth running at all.
Thanks.
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Message 47193 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 6:13:38 UTC - in response to Message 47192.


Matt A is updating the ATI application so they'll be available and automatically downloaded when new work is generated, but for people with customized app info and who are using old versions of the ATI application this is fair warning. We should probably be generating new work sometime this weekend, and the workunits being sent out will break with the older versions of the ATI applications.



The questions is how does the 'new' app perform copmpared to the old one(Gipsel) ?

Does it come even close performance wise or is it nowhere near that ?
Some realistic numbers would be nice to see if it'S worth running at all.
Thanks.
The main integral piece which matters seems to be about the same. The end likelihood I don't have on the GPU so that adds about 2-3 seconds at the end.

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Message 47194 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 6:16:01 UTC - in response to Message 47193.


Matt A is updating the ATI application so they'll be available and automatically downloaded when new work is generated, but for people with customized app info and who are using old versions of the ATI application this is fair warning. We should probably be generating new work sometime this weekend, and the workunits being sent out will break with the older versions of the ATI applications.



The questions is how does the 'new' app perform copmpared to the old one(Gipsel) ?

Does it come even close performance wise or is it nowhere near that ?
Some realistic numbers would be nice to see if it'S worth running at all.
Thanks.
The main integral piece which matters seems to be about the same. The end likelihood I don't have on the GPU so that adds about 2-3 seconds at the end.


OK that sounds good to me (especially since it's NOT openCL)!

Does it checkpoint ?

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Message 47195 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 6:21:16 UTC - in response to Message 47194.


Matt A is updating the ATI application so they'll be available and automatically downloaded when new work is generated, but for people with customized app info and who are using old versions of the ATI application this is fair warning. We should probably be generating new work sometime this weekend, and the workunits being sent out will break with the older versions of the ATI applications.



The questions is how does the 'new' app perform copmpared to the old one(Gipsel) ?

Does it come even close performance wise or is it nowhere near that ?
Some realistic numbers would be nice to see if it'S worth running at all.
Thanks.
The main integral piece which matters seems to be about the same. The end likelihood I don't have on the GPU so that adds about 2-3 seconds at the end.


OK that sounds good to me (especially since it's NOT openCL)!

Does it checkpoint ?
No. I don't really see the point of checkpointing when the entire thing takes less time than the default checkpointing interval (although I'm not really sure how long it takes on the slower GPUs. I'm guessing it might take 30minutes or so on some of the lower end and older stuff?) It wouldn't be hard to add if people want it. The 2.4 SDK release notes say CAL will be deprecated in the next release, so I'll make another attempt at getting the OpenCL one as fast. There was some kind of mention on the AMD forum that they were looking into the possibility of adding inline IL in CL kernels, which would be fine. The only thing then we would lose is support for 38xx GPUs.

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Message 47196 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 6:40:26 UTC - in response to Message 47195.


No. I don't really see the point of checkpointing when the entire thing takes less time than the default checkpointing interval (although I'm not really sure how long it takes on the slower GPUs.
I'm guessing it might take 30minutes or so on some of the lower end and older stuff?) It wouldn't be hard to add if people want it.


It would be really nice if it had checkpoints implemented.

(Besides, the 'low end stuff ('38xx'), which should be in the ballpark of 30min or more) there are other ATI enabled projects as well and boinc tends to switch between them in a complete irational/retareded way, sometimes suspending a WU that's ~98% done... so there you go, we need checkpoints. :)


The 2.4 SDK release notes say CAL will be deprecated in the next release, so I'll make another attempt at getting the OpenCL one as fast. There was some kind of mention on the AMD forum that they were looking into the possibility of adding inline IL in CL kernels, which would be fine. The only thing then we would lose is support for 38xx GPUs.


I just installed the 2.4 SDK today and havent had a closer look at it at all... anyway, just did some tests using the SKA and there where only a 2% speedup for the kernels i've tested. I'm not convinced that openCL is ready to replace CAL performance wise in the near future. Just look at some sameples from the cal++ amd compare them to OCL. Some of those are 20x faster using cal++ (Pyrit comes to mind too...)




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Message 47203 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 8:13:58 UTC

Will the new app also have the ability to configure the load on the GPU (either by command line or by options on the webpage)?
The reason I'm asking is because with the old one and default settings the UI (Win7) is realllllyyyyy sluggish. So I've used the Gipsel's command line switches to lower the load. If the new app doesn't have this ability it would be a show stopper for me, because I really need to use the system while the app is running.
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Message 47204 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 8:29:18 UTC
Last modified: 9 Apr 2011, 9:02:16 UTC

Wu lost 908 GPU? and no points!

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09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_10_3s_fix20_1_114746_1302203595_0 is no longer usable
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09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_10_3s_fix20_1_140838_1302204216_0 is no longer usable
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09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_10_3s_fix20_1_182708_1302205144_0 is no longer usable
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09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_13_3s_free_1_192309_1302205357_0 is no longer usable
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09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_13_3s_free_1_192307_1302205357_0 is no longer usable
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09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_10_3s_fix10_1_195553_1302205410_0 is no longer usable
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09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_10_3s_fix10_1_195538_1302205410_0 is no longer usable
09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_10_3s_fix10_1_195537_1302205410_0 is no longer usable
09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_10_3s_fix10_1_195536_1302205410_0 is no longer usable
09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_10_3s_fix10_1_195535_1302205410_0 is no longer usable
09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_10_3s_fix10_1_195534_1302205410_0 is no longer usable
09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_10_3s_fix10_1_195533_1302205410_0 is no longer usable
09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_10_3s_fix10_1_195532_1302205410_0 is no longer usable
09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_10_3s_fix10_1_195531_1302205410_0 is no longer usable
09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_10_3s_fix10_1_195530_1302205410_0 is no longer usable
09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_10_3s_fix10_1_195529_1302205410_0 is no longer usable
09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_10_3s_fix10_1_195528_1302205410_0 is no longer usable
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09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_10_3s_fix10_1_195524_1302205410_0 is no longer usable
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09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_10_3s_fix20_1_198921_1302205494_0 is no longer usable
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09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_10_3s_fix20_1_198884_1302205494_0 is no longer usable
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09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_10_3s_fix10_1_211671_1302205775_0 is no longer usable
09/04/2011 07:50:24 Milkyway@home Message from server: Result de_separation_10_3s_fix10_1_211670_1302205775_0 is no longer usable
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09/04/2011 07:50:24 Mi

Profile The Gas Giant
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Message 47218 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 12:10:13 UTC - in response to Message 47195.

.....The only thing then we would lose is support for 38xx GPUs.


Arrgghhh! That's a 30,000 credits a day card...much, much faster than any CPU out there...

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Message 47220 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 12:23:31 UTC - in response to Message 47204.
Last modified: 9 Apr 2011, 12:32:02 UTC

Wu lost 908 GPU? and no points!

Lost in the neighborhood of at least 4000 completed WUs here :(

Edit: When DNETC messed up about a week ago they awarded their users an estimated credit bonus according to what they had been crunching for the last few days. In fact it turned out to be too generous. Not a bad idea...

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Message 47231 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 14:03:57 UTC - in response to Message 47195.

BOINC is not yet ready for ATI/AMD OpenCL. You will have to wait until the 6.12.x series gets out of beta before BOINC officially supports OpenCL on ATI/AMD cards. PrimeGrid is using necessary trickery to get its ATI OpenCL applications running by disguising the application as a CAL 1.3 application, causing computation errors on HD 3xxx cards.

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Message 47236 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 14:35:44 UTC - in response to Message 47196.

......there are other ATI enabled projects as well and boinc tends to switch between them in a complete irational/retareded way, sometimes suspending a WU that's ~98% done... so there you go, we need checkpoints. :)

This also happens when you set 'Use GPU while computer is in use' set to no.
Another reason for checkpoints

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Message 47248 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 17:50:39 UTC - in response to Message 47203.

Will the new app also have the ability to configure the load on the GPU (either by command line or by options on the webpage)?
The reason I'm asking is because with the old one and default settings the UI (Win7) is realllllyyyyy sluggish. So I've used the Gipsel's command line switches to lower the load. If the new app doesn't have this ability it would be a show stopper for me, because I really need to use the system while the app is running.

+1 I would really like to know this one as well...

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Message 47251 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 17:52:55 UTC - in response to Message 47248.

Will the new app also have the ability to configure the load on the GPU (either by command line or by options on the webpage)?
The reason I'm asking is because with the old one and default settings the UI (Win7) is realllllyyyyy sluggish. So I've used the Gipsel's command line switches to lower the load. If the new app doesn't have this ability it would be a show stopper for me, because I really need to use the system while the app is running.

+1 I would really like to know this one as well...
I can add it easily. I'll be doing an update for all of the separation applications soon, and I'll include that.

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Message 47253 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 18:03:17 UTC - in response to Message 47218.
Last modified: 9 Apr 2011, 18:07:32 UTC

.....The only thing then we would lose is support for 38xx GPUs.


Arrgghhh! That's a 30,000 credits a day card...much, much faster than any CPU out there...


Oh yes! but more important for me, its the only one on AGP Slot who runs with milkyway (10 mins per WU))!! (yes proud to have a Gaming-PC who runs every new game nearly smooth, ok on XP with DX9 =)) O.o plz support it -_- need the cpu power on other important projects and dont want to run 3850 for some nonsense like collaz, primegrid and so on -_- real science research ftw!

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Message 47255 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 18:24:10 UTC - in response to Message 47251.

Will the new app also have the ability to configure the load on the GPU (either by command line or by options on the webpage)?
The reason I'm asking is because with the old one and default settings the UI (Win7) is realllllyyyyy sluggish. So I've used the Gipsel's command line switches to lower the load. If the new app doesn't have this ability it would be a show stopper for me, because I really need to use the system while the app is running.

+1 I would really like to know this one as well...
I can add it easily. I'll be doing an update for all of the separation applications soon, and I'll include that.


Thank you - that's really good news :)
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Message 47263 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 19:12:59 UTC

Is the optimized 0.23 app currently hosted on Arkayn's site one of the deprecated ones, or is it still good?

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Message 47266 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 19:20:18 UTC - in response to Message 47263.
Last modified: 9 Apr 2011, 19:20:33 UTC

Is the optimized 0.23 app currently hosted on Arkayn's site one of the deprecated ones, or is it still good?


It's one of the apps that has been deprecated.
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Message 47268 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 19:36:11 UTC - in response to Message 47266.

Is the optimized 0.23 app currently hosted on Arkayn's site one of the deprecated ones, or is it still good?

It's one of the apps that has been deprecated.

Thanks. At least I don't have to clear out my cache before resetting the project. :-)

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