rpi_logo
What if, instead of an expanding universe there was a huge mass on the opposite side of the universe?
What if, instead of an expanding universe there was a huge mass on the opposite side of the universe?
log in

Advanced search

Message boards : MilkyWay@home Science : What if, instead of an expanding universe there was a huge mass on the opposite side of the universe?

Author Message
Ryan Rodney
Send message
Joined: 27 Apr 11
Posts: 5
Credit: 52,051
RAC: 0

Message 50669 - Posted: 12 Aug 2011, 23:29:00 UTC

If there was an enormous mass on the opposite side of the universe from us, wouldn't the view from our vantage point be exactly the same as in an expanding universe? Both would lead to everything appearing to accelerate away from us. I know this is far fetched, and I doubt that it's true but it's a neat thing to think about and I'm wondering if there are any problems with the idea.
____________

Profile Beyond
Send message
Joined: 15 Jul 08
Posts: 383
Credit: 501,817,790
RAC: 0

Message 50670 - Posted: 13 Aug 2011, 12:55:31 UTC - in response to Message 50669.

Maybe it's perched on a giant elephant? ;)

Matthew
Volunteer moderator
Project developer
Project scientist
Send message
Joined: 6 May 09
Posts: 217
Credit: 6,856,375
RAC: 0

Message 50708 - Posted: 15 Aug 2011, 22:11:49 UTC

Since everything in the universe beyond our local group of galaxies appears to be moving away from us regardless of the direction we look, a single large mass would not adequately describe the expanding universe. If one were to place large masses "along the edge of the universe" (if such a thing existed), we still would not get an "expanding" effect. In that case, Laplace's equation would say that the net force inside those objects would be zero.

So the logical thing to do would be to solve Einstein's equations of general relativity while including an unknown quantity that describes the expansion that we see. When we do this, we get a simple, constant term with units of energy, whose net effect is to cause the constant expansion of space at every point. This energy has been dubbed "Dark Energy," and its physical origin is still under investigation.

-Matthew N

Profile Beyond
Send message
Joined: 15 Jul 08
Posts: 383
Credit: 501,817,790
RAC: 0

Message 50711 - Posted: 16 Aug 2011, 15:12:11 UTC

Does this mean that the e in Einstein's equation didn't stand for elephant size? My world view is shattered :(

Larry
Send message
Joined: 2 Apr 11
Posts: 5
Credit: 300,312
RAC: 0

Message 54528 - Posted: 29 May 2012, 3:53:54 UTC - in response to Message 50669.

I interested in this also, the local group of galaxies and the milkyway are all moving away towards the Virgo cluster at 20% the speed of light and accelerating. We are heading for a collision with Andromada galaxy. All these galaxies have something utterly massive we cant see or detect but the evidence is the speed we are accelerating to. It would require something more massive than anything weve seen. Just so much unknown. Maybe a megatype blackhole out 13.8 billion lightyears outm that sucks all the matter known into a enormous galaxy eating blackhole. All these galaxies all influeneced by somethuing unseen.

Larry
Send message
Joined: 2 Apr 11
Posts: 5
Credit: 300,312
RAC: 0

Message 56168 - Posted: 12 Nov 2012, 21:19:34 UTC - in response to Message 54528.

There are studies on the great attractor that us and the local group of galaxies are all heading to this unknown attractor. We are all winging along towards it at 3 million miles an hour. We cant see it but its inflence is still there billions of lightyyears away. What could it be a galaxy size black hole? who knows...

Profile mikey
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 8 May 09
Posts: 2182
Credit: 231,022,148
RAC: 208,392

Message 56172 - Posted: 12 Nov 2012, 23:51:08 UTC - in response to Message 54528.

I interested in this also, the local group of galaxies and the milkyway are all moving away towards the Virgo cluster at 20% the speed of light and accelerating. We are heading for a collision with Andromada galaxy. All these galaxies have something utterly massive we cant see or detect but the evidence is the speed we are accelerating to. It would require something more massive than anything weve seen. Just so much unknown. Maybe a megatype blackhole out 13.8 billion lightyears outm that sucks all the matter known into a enormous galaxy eating blackhole. All these galaxies all influeneced by somethuing unseen.


One "theory" is a large soccer type ball that means we are all heading around and around towards each other like a dog chasing his own tail. I have no idea how that jibes with the "big bang" theory though, unless we are in an inflating soccer ball. I think there is alot yet to learn about this place we live in!

Profile Wrend
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 4 Nov 12
Posts: 72
Credit: 224,644,940
RAC: 0

Message 57437 - Posted: 7 Mar 2013, 5:55:59 UTC
Last modified: 7 Mar 2013, 6:42:53 UTC

An idea that I've been kicking around for about 10 years now is that gravity isn't really matter being "attracted" to matter, but rather "space-time" "pushing" matter away. So for example: us standing on the earth is really the "mass" of the earth not pushing us away as much as everywhere else.

The way I also think of this is that matter is kind of like a denominational bubble, if you will, and that space is trying to level out a kind of equilibrium. The fundamentals of this probably wouldn't be easily observable from our perspective since we live within the constructs of the interrelations of these extradimensional (for lack of a better term?) forces.

The amount that we are accelerating away from distant objects would be relative to the distance we are away from them, and may also be relative to other factors such as gravity waves, time dilatation, and so on, maybe even the multidimensional "shape" of the universe itself. Inertia and time dilation themselves might be relevant to this kind of interaction between matter and space as we can perceive them.

Unfortunately, I have no real way of testing this idea myself. I'm just a part-time astrophysics/astronomy enthusiast at best with no real connections in the scientific community to speak of.

Just something for you guys to chew on. :) (And try not to laugh - I know all too well about "newbie theories.")

...

One "theory" is a large soccer type ball that means we are all heading around and around towards each other like a dog chasing his own tail. I have no idea how that jibes with the "big bang" theory though, unless we are in an inflating soccer ball. I think there is alot yet to learn about this place we live in!


I think the ball analogy you mention (not the part relevant to galaxies potentially coalescing in a swirling ball type shape around their center of mass) is just a way to conceptualize the expanding universe inflation theory and has less to do with the literal shape of the universe. That is, I don't think we could travel so far away on a straight heading that we would eventual end up where we were. But then again, who can say for sure? ;)
____________
My BOINC Cruncher, Minecraft Multiserver, Home Entertainment System, and Workstation PC: http://www.overclock.net/lists/display/view/id/4678036

Profile mikey
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 8 May 09
Posts: 2182
Credit: 231,022,148
RAC: 208,392

Message 57441 - Posted: 7 Mar 2013, 12:20:02 UTC - in response to Message 57437.

An idea that I've been kicking around for about 10 years now is that gravity isn't really matter being "attracted" to matter, but rather "space-time" "pushing" matter away. So for example: us standing on the earth is really the "mass" of the earth not pushing us away as much as everywhere else.

The way I also think of this is that matter is kind of like a denominational bubble, if you will, and that space is trying to level out a kind of equilibrium. The fundamentals of this probably wouldn't be easily observable from our perspective since we live within the constructs of the interrelations of these extradimensional (for lack of a better term?) forces.

The amount that we are accelerating away from distant objects would be relative to the distance we are away from them, and may also be relative to other factors such as gravity waves, time dilatation, and so on, maybe even the multidimensional "shape" of the universe itself. Inertia and time dilation themselves might be relevant to this kind of interaction between matter and space as we can perceive them.

Unfortunately, I have no real way of testing this idea myself. I'm just a part-time astrophysics/astronomy enthusiast at best with no real connections in the scientific community to speak of.

Just something for you guys to chew on. :) (And try not to laugh - I know all too well about "newbie theories.")

...

One "theory" is a large soccer type ball that means we are all heading around and around towards each other like a dog chasing his own tail. I have no idea how that jibes with the "big bang" theory though, unless we are in an inflating soccer ball. I think there is alot yet to learn about this place we live in!


I think the ball analogy you mention (not the part relevant to galaxies potentially coalescing in a swirling ball type shape around their center of mass) is just a way to conceptualize the expanding universe inflation theory and has less to do with the literal shape of the universe. That is, I don't think we could travel so far away on a straight heading that we would eventual end up where we were. But then again, who can say for sure? ;)


One thing I can say is that gravity is WAAAY over matched by the magnetic force! Don't believe me, throw a paperclip into the air, as high as you want to and it will STILL come back down to Earth. Now take that same paperclip and a refrigerator magnet and stick the paperclip to it and hold the magnet in your hand without letting go, BUT the paperclip free to fall to the Earth if it wants to. It NEVER will because the magnetism in that little tiny magnet overcomes the gravity from the Earth affecting that same paperclip! In short that little tiny magnet overcomes the GIGANTIC affect of gravity!!

The story is that gravity can affect things trillions of miles away, yet can be overcome by the smallest of objects held in your hand. I think there is ALOT of things we don't understand about either yet!

Profile top_fuel29
Send message
Joined: 4 Jan 14
Posts: 1
Credit: 172,003
RAC: 0

Message 60775 - Posted: 20 Jan 2014, 7:00:30 UTC

In my Opinion, This Universe we live in shouldn't even be here.


Post to thread

Message boards : MilkyWay@home Science : What if, instead of an expanding universe there was a huge mass on the opposite side of the universe?


Main page · Your account · Message boards


Copyright © 2018 AstroInformatics Group