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Donald Qualls

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Message 58231 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 19:12:36 UTC

I've recently jumped from Windows XP to Linux (mostly -- still a couple things I have to go back to Windows to do). No problem, there are BOINC and Milky Way packages for MEPIS 11, and like all the packages on the primary repositories, they install smoother than Windows software. They run correctly, too -- except that the statistics tab in the BOINC Manager swears up and down I haven't gotten a credit in close to two weeks, despite processing two work units (one per core) every two and a half hours (or so) for at least eight days -- my average has dropped from 2000+ before my last Windows trojan incident to below 1000 without any credits recognized in more than a week.

Anyone know if there's a setting I can tweak to correct this? I'm not ego-bound on the credits, but watching the average was my most sensitive measure of overall system health (it was the first warning of all three of the malware incidents I've had in the past six months).
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Message 58234 - Posted: 12 May 2013, 20:16:21 UTC

The only thing I can figure is that you got old applications instead of the newer versions.

See if your versions match what I have packaged.
http://www.arkayn.us/forum/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=cat10
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Message 58235 - Posted: 13 May 2013, 5:03:21 UTC - in response to Message 58234.  

Okay, my package installer says I have Milky Way 0.18d-1 -- I don't see any correspondence to the downloads you pointed to. I tried downloading the linux_1.02_32 version (no special GPU versions; my GPU lacks double precision floating point capability anyway), but didn't see anything saying how to install it; I moved the binary to the same folder my old version was in, changed the symlink in /var/lib/boinc-client/projects/milkyway.cs.rpi.edu_milkyway to point to the new download, and when I resumed computation, got instant errors -- I've put the symlink back to its original value, so I'm back to generating work, but that clearly was either the wrong file, or I installed it wrong.

I should note that the package maintainers for MEPIS seem extremely conservative in terms of stability; most of the items I can install without learning a bunch more about Linux (like how to compile sources) are Debian old-stable versions packaged for MEPIS -- for instance, the Firefox I have is 9.0.1, while the current download is 20. I'll never have anything "up to date" with MEPIS unless I bypass the package system -- which is generally fine, since I'm more interested in being able to use my computer than in constantly fooling with it -- so, I need more detailed information on how to install the Linux Milky Way client and which one to use.
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Message 58236 - Posted: 13 May 2013, 9:07:48 UTC - in response to Message 58235.  
Last modified: 13 May 2013, 9:08:17 UTC

Okay, my package installer says I have Milky Way 0.18d-1 -- I don't see any correspondence to the downloads you pointed to. I tried downloading the linux_1.02_32 version (no special GPU versions; my GPU lacks double precision floating point capability anyway), but didn't see anything saying how to install it; I moved the binary to the same folder my old version was in, changed the symlink in /var/lib/boinc-client/projects/milkyway.cs.rpi.edu_milkyway to point to the new download, and when I resumed computation, got instant errors -- I've put the symlink back to its original value, so I'm back to generating work, but that clearly was either the wrong file, or I installed it wrong.

I should note that the package maintainers for MEPIS seem extremely conservative in terms of stability; most of the items I can install without learning a bunch more about Linux (like how to compile sources) are Debian old-stable versions packaged for MEPIS -- for instance, the Firefox I have is 9.0.1, while the current download is 20. I'll never have anything "up to date" with MEPIS unless I bypass the package system -- which is generally fine, since I'm more interested in being able to use my computer than in constantly fooling with it -- so, I need more detailed information on how to install the Linux Milky Way client and which one to use.


0.18d was removed from production about 2 years ago.

You will want just the CPU version. This is the 64-bit version.

http://www.arkayn.us/forum/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item17
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Donald Qualls

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Message 58244 - Posted: 13 May 2013, 14:57:49 UTC - in response to Message 58236.  

0.18d was removed from production about 2 years ago.

You will want just the CPU version. This is the 64-bit version.

http://www.arkayn.us/forum/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item17


Can't say I'm surprised it's that far out of date in the MEPIS repositories. So, I've got the 1.01 32-bit (I'm not running 64-bit Linux -- after trying 64-bit Mint, I went to 32-bit MEPIS for stability) downloaded, but simply replacing the binary I'm currently using doesn't work -- where would I find instructions on how to apply the updated client (preferably specific to MEPIS 11 in terms of folder locations etc.)?
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Message 58246 - Posted: 13 May 2013, 16:34:24 UTC - in response to Message 58244.  

Okay, tried a little more to get the newer download to work -- tried disconnecting BOINC Manager while doing the copy/rename, and couldn't get it to reconnect, wound up completely uninstalling and reinstalling BOINC and the Milky Way client. I've got it running again, but now I can't find the icon file (minor issue, I can probably make one if I have to), so once again I'm producing work, two units at a time, at around 1:45 to 2 hours per unit -- i.e. back where I was before trying to install the updated client.

I checked for "live help" and found every single English speaking volunteer was either offline, away, or "unknown" status. I guess I'll wait (semi)patiently for more information on how to get the current version of the Linux client (more than a year old, it seems) working in MEPIS 11.
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Message 58269 - Posted: 15 May 2013, 3:14:13 UTC

Well, I found after my last post that all the work units I've crunched since switching to Linux on the 4th have have "validation errors" -- that's why I've gotten no credit.

If I can't get information on how to install a current version of Milky Way in MEPIS 11, I won't be able to generate any more data; I don't expect to return to Windows on a full time basis. Now, I realize that my one dual-core computer with unsupported GPU isn't any big deal against those who can crank out a million credits in three weeks (took me most of a year to get that far), but it seems to me there are a lot more computers in my class being converted to Linux because Windows requires too much money (direct to Microsoft and for hardware upgrades to run the next new version), and if the version of Milky Way included with their packages doesn't work (that's my problem), they might not even realize it.

I've tried the help link, and have yet to see a single English speaking helper available, either in the 7 AM or 6-11 PM EDT time frames. Can anyone tell me how to turn the 1.02 32-bit download linked above into a working project entry in BOINC?
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Message 58270 - Posted: 15 May 2013, 9:16:15 UTC - in response to Message 58269.  
Last modified: 15 May 2013, 9:17:33 UTC

> million credits in 3 weeks
Got my Ubuntu 13.04 with a Radeon HD 7950 generating 1,000,000 credits every 3 days. Just attached to this project yesterday.

Doesn't BOINC automatically download the latest version of a project's software by itself? All you need is the latest version of BOINC. I don't remember having to manually install software for any project I'm attached to.
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Message 58279 - Posted: 15 May 2013, 20:41:14 UTC - in response to Message 58270.  

Doesn't BOINC automatically download the latest version of a project's software by itself? All you need is the latest version of BOINC. I don't remember having to manually install software for any project I'm attached to.


Apparently, the version of BOINC I have (MEPIS packages have 6.10.58) will do this only if you don't have a Milky Way module installed. Based on your post, I uninstalled BOINC and Milky Way again, then resinstalled only BOINC Manager and client, not the Milky Way application from the MEPIS 11 repositories -- and bingo, when I attached to the project, it appears to have obtained Milky Way 1.01 32-bit (the one I've been trying to install for two days) on its own and happily started computing. I ran out of time and didn't have it correctly configured for ongoing work, but it completed that work unit and passed validation and I'm now crunching away again.

Of course, you and Milky Way have once more contributed to my feelings of computer inadequacy -- my computer took (it says here) several hours to complete that unit, worth 119.9 credits, but another computer assigned the same unit took only 54 seconds, presumably on a GPU of Extraordinary Magnitude. My dual core, 2.5 GHz CPU (which is a bit less than 10,000 times faster than the first computer I owned back in 1986, a Tandy Color Computer 2 with just under 0.5 MHz clock speed) just can't begin to compete with that kind of machine, and my budget won't stretch to upgrading to a top-line gaming machine (which would be nice to have just for general use performance, never mind BOINC).

Anyway, this appears to be solved -- the correct way to get the current version of Milky Way in MEPIS, or presumably in other stability-driven Linux distros, is to install only BOINC and attach BOINC to the project(s) of your choice, letting the manager obtain and install the project specific clients.
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Message 58287 - Posted: 16 May 2013, 11:58:41 UTC - in response to Message 58279.  


Of course, you and Milky Way have once more contributed to my feelings of computer inadequacy -- my computer took (it says here) several hours to complete that unit, worth 119.9 credits, but another computer assigned the same unit took only 54 seconds, presumably on a GPU of Extraordinary Magnitude.


Actually it was a:
Coprocessors AMD AMD Radeon HD 6900 series (Cayman) (2048MB) driver: 1.4.1741

If you look at your tasks you can filter the valid units, then click on 'workunit' and it will let you see the other pc's that also worked on your same workunit and their results. It is almost as though your pc used the cpu instead of the gpu to crunch the units, here it says:
6,959.80 6,956.10 119.90 MilkyWay@Home v1.01 The first number is total run time, then comes the time the cpu was used, then the credits, and lastly the app used. You can see most of the itme it was your cpu that was crunching not your gpu. the person who finished the same unit in 54 seconds numbers are: 54.73 2.54 119.90 MilkyWay@Home v1.02 (opencl_amd_ati).
While a 3rd persons numbers are:
479.47 35.88 119.90 MilkyWay@Home v0.82 (ati14).

You can see both of the others have much less cpu time by comparison then you do. It COULD be that your gpu is a pretty basic one that just can't keep up with the newer ones, but since it IS contributing it is NOT wasted!
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Message 58291 - Posted: 16 May 2013, 13:21:43 UTC

It might be wise to only opt into the CPU only work units and let GPUs handle the GPU work units.
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Message 58314 - Posted: 17 May 2013, 19:41:45 UTC - in response to Message 58287.  


Of course, you and Milky Way have once more contributed to my feelings of computer inadequacy -- my computer took (it says here) several hours to complete that unit, worth 119.9 credits, but another computer assigned the same unit took only 54 seconds, presumably on a GPU of Extraordinary Magnitude.


Actually it was a:
Coprocessors AMD AMD Radeon HD 6900 series (Cayman) (2048MB) driver: 1.4.1741

If you look at your tasks you can filter the valid units, then click on 'workunit' and it will let you see the other pc's that also worked on your same workunit and their results. It is almost as though your pc used the cpu instead of the gpu to crunch the units, here it says:
6,959.80 6,956.10 119.90 MilkyWay@Home v1.01 The first number is total run time, then comes the time the cpu was used, then the credits, and lastly the app used. You can see most of the itme it was your cpu that was crunching not your gpu. the person who finished the same unit in 54 seconds numbers are: 54.73 2.54 119.90 MilkyWay@Home v1.02 (opencl_amd_ati).
While a 3rd persons numbers are:
479.47 35.88 119.90 MilkyWay@Home v0.82 (ati14).

You can see both of the others have much less cpu time by comparison then you do. It COULD be that your gpu is a pretty basic one that just can't keep up with the newer ones, but since it IS contributing it is NOT wasted!


That's where I got the info to feel CPU-inferior... My system is working with CPU only; I recently learned that the new video card I bought for Christmas 2011 is one model too "low" to have the double precision floating point capability required for Milky Way. And by current standards, my CPU is pretty basic, too -- Intel E5200, dual core with, as I recall, limited or no on-chip cache at 2.5 GHz with 2 GB RAM; it's a four year old machine, haven't had money to upgrade or wanted to have to reinstall everything again after upgrading the MB (as happened last time -- remember the good old days when you could install a new motherboard and only have to replace a few chipset drivers?).

Looks like one of the things I should look at if/when I get the promotion I'm up for (I'll know next week, but won't have a paycheck from it until, probably, mid-June) is upgrading my video; I can get a new card now that will crunch with GPU for about what I paid 18 months ago for one that won't (and was still a huge upgrade from the on-board video on my then 2 1/2 year old MB).
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Message 58318 - Posted: 18 May 2013, 12:09:21 UTC - in response to Message 58314.  


Of course, you and Milky Way have once more contributed to my feelings of computer inadequacy -- my computer took (it says here) several hours to complete that unit, worth 119.9 credits, but another computer assigned the same unit took only 54 seconds, presumably on a GPU of Extraordinary Magnitude.


Actually it was a:
Coprocessors AMD AMD Radeon HD 6900 series (Cayman) (2048MB) driver: 1.4.1741

If you look at your tasks you can filter the valid units, then click on 'workunit' and it will let you see the other pc's that also worked on your same workunit and their results. It is almost as though your pc used the cpu instead of the gpu to crunch the units, here it says:
6,959.80 6,956.10 119.90 MilkyWay@Home v1.01 The first number is total run time, then comes the time the cpu was used, then the credits, and lastly the app used. You can see most of the itme it was your cpu that was crunching not your gpu. the person who finished the same unit in 54 seconds numbers are: 54.73 2.54 119.90 MilkyWay@Home v1.02 (opencl_amd_ati).
While a 3rd persons numbers are:
479.47 35.88 119.90 MilkyWay@Home v0.82 (ati14).

You can see both of the others have much less cpu time by comparison then you do. It COULD be that your gpu is a pretty basic one that just can't keep up with the newer ones, but since it IS contributing it is NOT wasted!


That's where I got the info to feel CPU-inferior... My system is working with CPU only; I recently learned that the new video card I bought for Christmas 2011 is one model too "low" to have the double precision floating point capability required for Milky Way. And by current standards, my CPU is pretty basic, too -- Intel E5200, dual core with, as I recall, limited or no on-chip cache at 2.5 GHz with 2 GB RAM; it's a four year old machine, haven't had money to upgrade or wanted to have to reinstall everything again after upgrading the MB (as happened last time -- remember the good old days when you could install a new motherboard and only have to replace a few chipset drivers?).

Looks like one of the things I should look at if/when I get the promotion I'm up for (I'll know next week, but won't have a paycheck from it until, probably, mid-June) is upgrading my video; I can get a new card now that will crunch with GPU for about what I paid 18 months ago for one that won't (and was still a huge upgrade from the on-board video on my then 2 1/2 year old MB).


Not being able to use your gpu is not a deal breaker, your cpu is doing okay AND your gpu CAN be used at other projects at the same time. Here is a link to a website of Distributed Computing projects, the Boinc one are marked:
http://www.distributedcomputing.info/projects.html

It says 'active projects' but it is NOT totally accurate, some have closed their doors since the list was last updated. BUT you can see there are LOTS of them around, most are cpu only projects, but here is a list of ones that can use a gpu:
http://www.setiusa.us/content.php?119-BOINC-GPU-Compatibility-List
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Message 58340 - Posted: 20 May 2013, 1:26:05 UTC - in response to Message 58318.  

BUT you can see there are LOTS of them around, most are cpu only projects, but here is a list of ones that can use a gpu:
http://www.setiusa.us/content.php?119-BOINC-GPU-Compatibility-List


Cool -- I just attached to Einstein@Home and as soon as BOINC Manager finishes installing the actual Einstein software, I'll be crunching GPU units for them. And *still* won't affect my perceived system performance, which is what I like so much about these projects -- I can contribute without giving up anything but a tiny bit of disk space.
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Message 58341 - Posted: 20 May 2013, 11:31:04 UTC - in response to Message 58340.  

BUT you can see there are LOTS of them around, most are cpu only projects, but here is a list of ones that can use a gpu:
http://www.setiusa.us/content.php?119-BOINC-GPU-Compatibility-List


Cool -- I just attached to Einstein@Home and as soon as BOINC Manager finishes installing the actual Einstein software, I'll be crunching GPU units for them. And *still* won't affect my perceived system performance, which is what I like so much about these projects -- I can contribute without giving up anything but a tiny bit of disk space.


I believe Einstein requires a cpu core to work alongside every workunit with the gpu workunits. If you just want pure numbers join DistRTgen, they are currently paying the absolute most credits for the work being done, closely behind them is Donate I believe. At DistRTgen I am getting 9400 credits for 11 minutes of work using my AMD 7970 and 9400 credits for 45 minutes of work using an AMD 5870. At Donate I got 70,000 credits for 8 hours of work using an Nvidia 560 Ti. Science type projects are of course more socially redeeming, but each project needs our help to achieve its goals.
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Message 58354 - Posted: 21 May 2013, 11:24:15 UTC - in response to Message 58341.  
Last modified: 21 May 2013, 11:27:16 UTC

I'm not mainly after credits (and a good thing; Einstein work units look to be claiming only about 1.5 credits each for three hours of run time), but I was able to configure Einstein from the server end to send only GPU work units, which (according to the Tasks page in BOINC Manager) use 0.2 CPU with the GPU. That lets me keep roughly 90% of my Milky Way performance while still popping out Einstein units every three hours or so. Now my machine (which is left on so I don't have to wait for startup and because it serves the only printer in the house) is doing something useful with all those cycles I can't use myself.

Even better, at both MilkyWay and Einstein my contribution is going to creating knowledge the human race will use for the rest of the life of the universe (assuming we don't erase ourselves in the next couple centuries).
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Message 58355 - Posted: 21 May 2013, 11:38:43 UTC - in response to Message 58354.  

I'm not mainly after credits (and a good thing; Einstein work units look to be claiming only about 1.5 credits each for three hours of run time), but I was able to configure Einstein from the server end to send only GPU work units, which (according to the Tasks page in BOINC Manager) use 0.2 CPU with the GPU. That lets me keep roughly 90% of my Milky Way performance while still popping out Einstein units every three hours or so. Now my machine (which is left on so I don't have to wait for startup and because it serves the only printer in the house) is doing something useful with all those cycles I can't use myself.

Even better, at both MilkyWay and Einstein my contribution is going to creating knowledge the human race will use for the rest of the life of the universe (assuming we don't erase ourselves in the next couple centuries).


And THAT is what makes all this crunching fun IMHO!! Being able to contribute in some way to something that we normally could not do!!
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Message 58368 - Posted: 22 May 2013, 11:18:55 UTC - in response to Message 58354.  

I'm not mainly after credits (and a good thing; Einstein work units look to be claiming only about 1.5 credits each for three hours of run time)


Well, and in an interesting development, after validation those same work units that were "claiming" 1.4 to 1.6 credits were actually awarded 500 credits each (ironically, the one CPU work unit that got in before I got the configuration figured out claimed 105 and was awarded "only" 251 for 18 hours working time); I'm not sure how they arrive at those figures, but given my GPU can send out six or seven of those a day, that's a pretty decent average once I get far enough in for the "ten days to two weeks" validation time to catch up (for whatever reason, most of my work units so far have been fresh, i.e. I've been the first one to complete and report them, so I have to wait for validation).

Meanwhile, my average for Milky Way is still dropping a little, at around 1/4 what it was before I switched to Linux; either MEPIS 11 and X11/KDE4 have larger system overhead than Windows XP (seems unlikely) or there's another factor affecting that calculation -- possibly it hasn't been long enough since I fixed this and the ten or eleven days I had no credits at all is still dragging down from the 2000+ average I had before the switch, in which case this will turn around and start clawing back up to 1800 or so in another week or two.
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Message 58374 - Posted: 23 May 2013, 11:14:14 UTC - in response to Message 58368.  

I'm not mainly after credits (and a good thing; Einstein work units look to be claiming only about 1.5 credits each for three hours of run time)


Well, and in an interesting development, after validation those same work units that were "claiming" 1.4 to 1.6 credits were actually awarded 500 credits each (ironically, the one CPU work unit that got in before I got the configuration figured out claimed 105 and was awarded "only" 251 for 18 hours working time); I'm not sure how they arrive at those figures, but given my GPU can send out six or seven of those a day, that's a pretty decent average once I get far enough in for the "ten days to two weeks" validation time to catch up (for whatever reason, most of my work units so far have been fresh, i.e. I've been the first one to complete and report them, so I have to wait for validation).

Meanwhile, my average for Milky Way is still dropping a little, at around 1/4 what it was before I switched to Linux; either MEPIS 11 and X11/KDE4 have larger system overhead than Windows XP (seems unlikely) or there's another factor affecting that calculation -- possibly it hasn't been long enough since I fixed this and the ten or eleven days I had no credits at all is still dragging down from the 2000+ average I had before the switch, in which case this will turn around and start clawing back up to 1800 or so in another week or two.


I would guess the later, years ago I tried a few Linux installs and found there were MUCH less Linux crunchers so getting the 2nd person to validate took a long time sometimes. Then if the unit has to go to a 3rd pc it of course can take even longer. Hopefully the number of Linux people has grown to the point you can get steady credits once you hit your 'happy bubble'!
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Message 58381 - Posted: 24 May 2013, 1:22:59 UTC

As a Linux cruncher getting a work unit uploaded every ~18 seconds, shouldn't be much problem with validation.
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