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Profile Stefan Ledwina
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Message 6188 - Posted: 15 Nov 2008, 18:11:14 UTC - in response to Message 6187.

I think the "extra" credits (I mean that part of the credits which some people consider as "too high") must be awarded for having to read all this whining and squabbling about credits.


1+ Cori!
Maybe those people should get a real live... ;)
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Message 6189 - Posted: 15 Nov 2008, 18:36:19 UTC
Last modified: 15 Nov 2008, 18:36:44 UTC

If Milksops application is valid it should have been implemented as standard long ago.
If Milksops application is not valid it should not receive any credit at all.

(Same goes of course for Crunch3rs)

The current "solution", i.e. the wilful neglect of the much faster application while accepting it's results is a clear sign of utter incompetence.
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Message 6190 - Posted: 15 Nov 2008, 19:01:51 UTC - in response to Message 6189.

If Milksops application is valid it should have been implemented as standard long ago.
If Milksops application is not valid it should not receive any credit at all.

I wonder why Milksop not yet has answered to all your abusive comments.
Btw: he had the source code to program and optimise and thus I think, he knows how the format has to look that the validator has to accept it.
So it IS valid at all, doesn't matter now what credits are giving out for it...
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Message 6191 - Posted: 15 Nov 2008, 19:09:56 UTC - in response to Message 6190.

I wonder why Milksop not yet has answered to all your abusive comments.

He has "answered" in a way in his own thread.
Approximately two weeks ago I made the faster apps public. At the same time I suggested a credit adjustment to keep things fair. Now, I think it is necessary to reinforce that suggestion. I've just seen, that SETI.Germany (among others) has given the advice not to crunch MW anymore. I'm sorry that it appears necessary for some well respected members of the BOINC community to take such measures, but in fact they are right.

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Message 6192 - Posted: 15 Nov 2008, 19:11:40 UTC - in response to Message 6190.

I wonder why Milksop not yet has answered to all your abusive comments...


I wonder, why you did not find Milksops comment... !?

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Message 6193 - Posted: 15 Nov 2008, 19:32:20 UTC - in response to Message 6191.
Last modified: 15 Nov 2008, 19:42:01 UTC

He has "answered" in a way in his own thread.
Approximately two weeks ago I made the faster apps public. At the same time I suggested a credit adjustment to keep things fair. Now, I think it is necessary to reinforce that suggestion. I've just seen, that SETI.Germany (among others) has given the advice not to crunch MW anymore. I'm sorry that it appears necessary for some well respected members of the BOINC community to take such measures, but in fact they are right.

Well, sorry, seems I missed that one somehow. I have a life beside that here which was very hectic in the last days. ;)

But strange, that he didn't answer that more precisely.
Looks now somehow to me as he finds his own app not worthy enough to defend it.
In my eyes all this babble is a bit against him also.

Edit:
Just found this post here from him.
The app makes valid results. So far about that. ;)
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Message 6196 - Posted: 15 Nov 2008, 20:05:51 UTC - in response to Message 6193.

But strange, that he didn't answer that more precisely.
Looks now somehow to me as he finds his own app not worthy enough to defend it.
In my eyes all this babble is a bit against him also.

I don't think so. To cite the first post in this thread from aendgraend:
The Development ot the optimised Application is highly appreciated - it gets the Projects Work done a lot faster than before.


What should I defend?

Furthermore I explicitly stated in my post that I don't want to discuss cross project comparisons of credits, just the fact that the current credits are unfair for the owners of fast machines compared to slower ones. I only referred to the comparison to make clear that the current credit limit does not help that issue either.

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Message 6197 - Posted: 15 Nov 2008, 20:13:43 UTC - in response to Message 6193.
Last modified: 15 Nov 2008, 20:14:50 UTC

In my eyes all this babble is a bit against him also.


And this is obviously completely misunderstood by you. Noone has said anything against milksop or his application.
Its a wonderful progress. Especially compared to the former one.

That last one is being criticized.
The credit limit is being critized.
The amount of crediting which catapults MW out of the scope of all other boinc projects is criticized.
I would additionally critize all those who with bitter tears of nonsense try to defend their so beloved credit inflation.
And people calling opinions "babble" or trying to implicit that someone else might or might not have a RL. This is just very "unfein".
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Message 6200 - Posted: 15 Nov 2008, 22:38:31 UTC - in response to Message 6140.
Last modified: 15 Nov 2008, 22:48:45 UTC

Cool! More wus for me :)


Ditto...

I think that absence of SETI.GERMANY on this project will not be felt. Currently, there are not enough WU's to fill the cache's 24/7, with SG out of the project, and maybe others following. There are those of us who will benefit as we pick up the slack.

More work for us!! HOORAY!!


Now if only team LAF would boycott the project as well! :)

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Message 6201 - Posted: 16 Nov 2008, 0:30:03 UTC - in response to Message 6183.

I think you could've sent this as a private message to the admins and not posted it on the forum since it doesn't involve anyone except your group. That being said I'm sorry to see you leaving. However, from what I can gather, you are displeased that there is a better application out there and dislike that the credit level is more than average. I think those are both positive things and can not justify your reasoning. Please elaborate on it so I can better understand.

Since a lot of weeks the project team is actively ignoring the well known fact of the slobby code.
Since at least two weeks the only thing that needed to be done was to take Milksops app and use it as MilkyWay@home 2.01.

Everything that has happened were some announcements on the homepage, not followed up by any action at all. I simply take those empty words as just that: empty words, probably meant to deflect some criticism from the team and prevent any real action to be taken.

I don't believe a single word there as long as it's proven not to be followed by any action!


If you don't have a job in academia, then you do not understand all of the other things that need to be taken care of on a daily basis. This project is probably above and beyond non-DC research they have going on. Not to mention the teaching, the grading, the committee meetings and so on. Heaven forbid something not be dealt with immediately when Saenger demands it! Sheesh.

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Message 6202 - Posted: 16 Nov 2008, 0:32:02 UTC - in response to Message 6189.

If Milksops application is valid it should have been implemented as standard long ago.
If Milksops application is not valid it should not receive any credit at all.

(Same goes of course for Crunch3rs)

The current "solution", i.e. the wilful neglect of the much faster application while accepting it's results is a clear sign of utter incompetence.


"Willful neglect"?!?
See my previous post.
Can we say "hyperbole," folks?
Very good. I knew you could do it.

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Message 6203 - Posted: 16 Nov 2008, 0:40:42 UTC - in response to Message 6202.

Can we say "hyperbole," folks?


hyper...
huper...
hyperboil...
hyperboyle...
HYPERBOLE...

;P
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Message 6204 - Posted: 16 Nov 2008, 1:48:25 UTC - in response to Message 6202.

...Can we say "hyperbole," folks?...

H..Y..P..E..R..B..E..L oder Ubertreibung?

Gud 'nuf?

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Message 6207 - Posted: 16 Nov 2008, 7:04:55 UTC - in response to Message 6201.

I think you could've sent this as a private message to the admins and not posted it on the forum since it doesn't involve anyone except your group. That being said I'm sorry to see you leaving. However, from what I can gather, you are displeased that there is a better application out there and dislike that the credit level is more than average. I think those are both positive things and can not justify your reasoning. Please elaborate on it so I can better understand.

Since a lot of weeks the project team is actively ignoring the well known fact of the slobby code.
Since at least two weeks the only thing that needed to be done was to take Milksops app and use it as MilkyWay@home 2.01.

Everything that has happened were some announcements on the homepage, not followed up by any action at all. I simply take those empty words as just that: empty words, probably meant to deflect some criticism from the team and prevent any real action to be taken.

I don't believe a single word there as long as it's proven not to be followed by any action!


If you don't have a job in academia, then you do not understand all of the other things that need to be taken care of on a daily basis. This project is probably above and beyond non-DC research they have going on. Not to mention the teaching, the grading, the committee meetings and so on. Heaven forbid something not be dealt with immediately when Saenger demands it! Sheesh.

Resistance is futile!
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Message 6214 - Posted: 16 Nov 2008, 12:59:37 UTC - in response to Message 6197.
Last modified: 16 Nov 2008, 13:04:19 UTC

But strange, that he didn't answer that more precisely.
Looks now somehow to me as he finds his own app not worthy enough to defend it.
In my eyes all this babble is a bit against him also.



I don't think so. To cite the first post in this thread from aendgraend:

The Development ot the optimised Application is highly appreciated - it gets the Projects Work done a lot faster than before.




What should I defend?

Well, okay, if you don't think so, that's good. :-)

The credit limit is being critized.
The amount of crediting which catapults MW out of the scope of all other boinc projects is criticized.

Well, whoever followed the forum constantly should know that the credit limit was introduced as a measure against "cheating" apps like Crunch3r earlier did and made millions of credits with it without giving it to anyone else.
To that point it was pretty senseful to have such a limit, wasn't it?
Now, where anyone (who wants) can use a "official cheater"-app this limit should be senseless?
Well, I think yes and no.
Yes, because it really limits the amount of credits which could been given out...
No, because at the current validations the lack of this limit would mean, you could get 260 respective 140 credits for some minutes of work! Wouldn't that been a real inflation and explosion of credits?
Just consider it...
At the current reaction time of the project admins (and I think Dave is still of the faster ones) it could have last days until that would have changed - or not, nobody knows it.
So I think the credit limit has sense, and it was even halved again.

Why don't you guys just wait another week to see what's coming out from the project staff...

And people calling opinions "babble" or trying to implicit that someone else might or might not have a RL. This is just very "unfein"

Well, I apologize if you got that wrong.
I was considering another meaning of "babble", would take too long to explain how...
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Message 6216 - Posted: 16 Nov 2008, 15:10:59 UTC

Is it not time this discussion was put to bed.

Opinions, quite legitimately, have been expressed, but it is getting boringly repetitive of the same arguments.

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Message 6218 - Posted: 16 Nov 2008, 16:02:00 UTC - in response to Message 6177.

In the town called Happyville...
In the end, the Mayor of the town had to ask that all farmers made the new spade available to people and that they all paid a fair days money for a fair days work.

But of course the people who had been earning lots of money saw their savings drop quite a lot and weren't very happy. But they had a choice to either be a part of the community gathering crops for the benefit of the town, or see who could amass the most personal savings.


Chapter 2:
Then, one day, someone invented a steam shovel. It could do the work of 100 men. It cost money to design, build, and test the steam shovel but the workers all felt that even though they had risked nothing themselves, they deserved the same share as the people who took the risks in creating the steam shovel. Soon, a union was formed and everyone in the entire town was paid the same wages. All was well again. For a while...

Making the wages the same created slackers because people who used to work harder now did just enough to get by since there is no longer a reward to work harder. Overall production of the town dropped. Some were satisfied and stayed while others left the town to find better work elsewhere. That meant that those who had been doing less work all around needed to work harder to make up the difference. That wasn't in their nature though, so they left as well. Production dropped even more. Now, Happyville is renamed GhostTown. Eventually, the mayor was the only one living there. He sits on a street corner attempting to get tourists to stop and take a tour of the once happy town. The tourists are former residents and have no interest. Eventually, the mayor retires, moves to Florida, and lives off the tax dollars paid by the people who left the town to earn a better living. But that's a whole other story.

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Message 6219 - Posted: 16 Nov 2008, 17:01:41 UTC - in response to Message 6218.


Chapter 2:
Then, one day, someone invented a steam shovel. It could do the work of 100 men. It cost money to design, build, and test the steam shovel but the workers all felt that even though they had risked nothing themselves, they deserved the same share as the people who took the risks in creating the steam shovel. Soon, a union was formed and everyone in the entire town was paid the same wages. All was well again. For a while...

Making the wages the same created slackers because people who used to work harder now did just enough to get by since there is no longer a reward to work harder. Overall production of the town dropped. Some were satisfied and stayed while others left the town to find better work elsewhere. That meant that those who had been doing less work all around needed to work harder to make up the difference. That wasn't in their nature though, so they left as well. Production dropped even more. Now, Happyville is renamed GhostTown. Eventually, the mayor was the only one living there. He sits on a street corner attempting to get tourists to stop and take a tour of the once happy town. The tourists are former residents and have no interest. Eventually, the mayor retires, moves to Florida, and lives off the tax dollars paid by the people who left the town to earn a better living. But that's a whole other story.


This is fun, we should write a whole novel out of useless and flawed metaphors. allow me to continue:

Chapter 3

The Steam Machine is now only operated by the Mayor, who came back from Florida because of all the hard sunshine that was wreaking havoc on his soft, delicate skin, only used to the gentle light of computer monitors. Meanwhile, in a neighboring town, someone else builds a new, superior machine and brings it to GhostTown, formerly known as Happyville.

The mayor is quite astonished at the energy savings and robustness of the new machine, and thanks heartily the engineer, naming him Citizen of Honor. Since the new, shiny machine does all the work, the mayor and the engineer have all of their time on their hands to rebuild Happyville.

They begin of course with the casino, and tourists abound again in the new Happyville. Then the bankers get interested in this new city where hotels are being built and the service economy is booming.

Prosperity comes again to Happyville, and all seems well for the mayor. But then, tragedy struck, like the hard fist of a blacksmith used to mold metal at the end of its pitiless hammer. Oh, the irony! While the city gained its power and its wealth from harvesting the soil, little did the mayor know that its doom would rain down from the heavens! An asteroid, unknown to science, hurling through space, ends its infernal course by hammering and annihilating the very machine that saved happyville.

The mayor is dismayed, but finds out that the service economy, and the organized crime that came along with the casinos, are sufficient to sustain Happyville's continued growth and appeal. To thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster for this fortunate turn of events, the mayor builds churches and held sacrifices. Happyville, yet again, prevails.

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Message 6220 - Posted: 16 Nov 2008, 18:14:29 UTC - in response to Message 6188.



Ditto here too. It is rather amusing to read, eh?




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Message 6222 - Posted: 16 Nov 2008, 18:43:49 UTC

Yes

I look forwards to more short chapters

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