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Profile Vincent JG
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Message 37703 - Posted: 23 Mar 2010, 23:40:48 UTC

I know I need to use the count tag, but I can't find which file this would go in. Any help would be appreciated.

VJG
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Message 37705 - Posted: 23 Mar 2010, 23:51:51 UTC - in response to Message 37703.  

I know I need to use the count tag, but I can't find which file this would go in. Any help would be appreciated.

VJG

The file is called app_info.xml, and needs to be put in the project directory.
Here is what I use:
<app_info>

	<app>
		<name>milkyway</name>
	</app>

	<file_info>
		<name>astronomy_0.20_x64_SSE3.exe</name>
		<executable/>
	</file_info>

	<file_info>
		<name>astronomy_0.20b_ATI_x64_ati.exe</name>
		<executable/>
	</file_info>

	<file_info>
		<name>brook64.dll</name>
		<executable/>
	</file_info>

	<app_version>
		<app_name>milkyway</app_name>
		<version_num>20</version_num>
		<avg_ncpus>1</avg_ncpus>
		<max_ncpus>1</max_ncpus>
		<platform>windows_x86_64</platform>
		<file_ref>
			<file_name>astronomy_0.20_x64_SSE3.exe</file_name>
			<main_program/>
		</file_ref>
	</app_version>

	<app_version>
		<app_name>milkyway</app_name>
		<version_num>21</version_num>
		<flops>1.0e11</flops>
		<avg_ncpus>0.05</avg_ncpus>
		<max_ncpus>0.5</max_ncpus>
		<platform>windows_x86_64</platform>
		<plan_class>ati13ati</plan_class>
		<coproc>
			<type>ATI</type>
			<count>0.48</count>
		</coproc>
		<cmdline>b-1</cmdline>
		<file_ref>
			<file_name>astronomy_0.20b_ATI_x64_ati.exe</file_name>
			<main_program/>
		</file_ref>
		<file_ref>
			<file_name>brook64.dll</file_name>
		</file_ref>
	</app_version>

</app_info>

BR
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Message 37744 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 10:10:41 UTC

I'm trying to use the latest app and failing to get two wu to run or any other enhancements
as after i edit the file below boinc refuses to talk to the project anymore

can somebody let me know what changes i need to make below

<app_info>
<app>
<name>milkyway</name>
</app>
<file_info>
<name>astronomy_0.22_ATI_x64_ati.exe</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>
<file_info>
<name>brook64.dll</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>

<app_version>
<app_name>milkyway</app_name>
<version_num>22</version_num>
<plan_class>ati13ati</plan_class>
<flops>1.0e11</flops>
<avg_ncpus>0.05</avg_ncpus>
<max_ncpus>1</max_ncpus>
<coproc>
<type>ATI</type>
<count>1</count>
</coproc>
<cmdline></cmdline>
<file_ref>
<file_name>astronomy_0.22_ATI_x64_ati.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>brook64.dll</file_name>
</file_ref>
</app_version>

<app_version>
<app_name>milkyway</app_name>
<version_num>20</version_num>
<flops>1.0e11</flops>
<avg_ncpus>0.05</avg_ncpus>
<max_ncpus>1</max_ncpus>
<coproc>
<type>ATI</type>
<count>1</count>
</coproc>
<cmdline></cmdline>
<file_ref>
<file_name>astronomy_0.22_ATI_x64_ati.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>brook64.dll</file_name>
</file_ref>
</app_version>

</app_info>

thank you for any help given
Ian
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Message 37750 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 18:27:34 UTC
Last modified: 25 Mar 2010, 18:30:05 UTC

Change <count>1</count> for the ATI GPU

to

<count>0.5</count>

and you should be fine. You have two Count statements to change. BAM needs restarting for the change to take effect.

Regards
Zy
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Message 37761 - Posted: 26 Mar 2010, 4:31:10 UTC - in response to Message 37750.  

ok got two wu running at the same time I know this will seem a bit silly but i'm pretty sure the times of each of the work units have got a bit slower to compute individually from 164 seconds each to 174 seconds each in the valid credit section of my account and there combined time on the boinc manager has went from 2.44 mins each to 5.28 mins which is just double for each of the two wu running together
so have I recieved any performance boost at all ?

plus I dont know what you mean by Bam needing restarting ?

best regards
Ian
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Message 37768 - Posted: 26 Mar 2010, 12:21:05 UTC - in response to Message 37761.  

ok got two wu running at the same time I know this will seem a bit silly but i'm pretty sure the times of each of the work units have got a bit slower to compute individually from 164 seconds each to 174 seconds each in the valid credit section of my account and there combined time on the boinc manager has went from 2.44 mins each to 5.28 mins which is just double for each of the two wu running together
so have I recieved any performance boost at all ?

plus I dont know what you mean by Bam needing restarting ?

best regards
Ian

Running multiple tasks just increases the individual time they run, they still come out about the same amount of seconds unless you have multiple gpu on the same system. The main difference is the time between finishing and starting up a wu is removed with running 2 tasks. BAM is a Boinc manager, basically restart Boinc so it loads the new app file.
Doesn't expecting the unexpected make the unexpected the expected?
If it makes sense, DON'T do it.
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Message 37793 - Posted: 27 Mar 2010, 13:21:05 UTC - in response to Message 37761.  

ok got two wu running at the same time I know this will seem a bit silly but i'm pretty sure the times of each of the work units have got a bit slower to compute individually from 164 seconds each to 174 seconds each in the valid credit section of my account and there combined time on the boinc manager has went from 2.44 mins each to 5.28 mins which is just double for each of the two wu running together
so have I recieved any performance boost at all ?

plus I dont know what you mean by Bam needing restarting ?

best regards
Ian


Mine also took twice the time as a "batch" of four (running on a dual GPU), making individual run time the same. As Banditwolf says, the saving is the load/unload time, running two at once will save load/unload time into/from the GPU(s).

It will depend on individual GPU used, but mine worked out at around 5-10% improvement. Its works pretty well at MW because the WU run time is relatively short for the higher cards, therefore the few seconds saved per WU is significant - at Collatz for example (or with low powered cards at MW), would not be worth the hassle as a few seconds saved compared to run time is insignificant.

Regards
Zy
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Message 37853 - Posted: 30 Mar 2010, 0:42:05 UTC - in response to Message 37793.  

ok got two wu running at the same time I know this will seem a bit silly but i'm pretty sure the times of each of the work units have got a bit slower to compute individually from 164 seconds each to 174 seconds each in the valid credit section of my account and there combined time on the boinc manager has went from 2.44 mins each to 5.28 mins which is just double for each of the two wu running together
so have I recieved any performance boost at all ?

plus I dont know what you mean by Bam needing restarting ?

best regards
Ian


Mine also took twice the time as a "batch" of four (running on a dual GPU), making individual run time the same. As Banditwolf says, the saving is the load/unload time, running two at once will save load/unload time into/from the GPU(s).

It will depend on individual GPU used, but mine worked out at around 5-10% improvement. Its works pretty well at MW because the WU run time is relatively short for the higher cards, therefore the few seconds saved per WU is significant - at Collatz for example (or with low powered cards at MW), would not be worth the hassle as a few seconds saved compared to run time is insignificant.

Regards
Zy


So I would say the bottom line is since it's pretty much a wash between running 1 or 2 per GPU performance wise, then run 2 to save the load/unload time, and more importantly, reduce the thermal cycling while that goes on.

They cool off pretty quick when they aren't doing hard core crunching, and thermal cycling will kill them off quicker than anything else (except for a lightning strike or PSU explosion that is!). ;-)

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Message 39572 - Posted: 10 May 2010, 9:14:17 UTC
Last modified: 10 May 2010, 9:39:41 UTC

hi,

ok did that got it to work then took it off as it wasnt doing much as far as even a small boost in work done but ...

now i have 3 4890's I'm interested in something said above that there is a bigger performance gain the more gpu's you use in one box

is this true ?
and if the count command is 0.5 to get 1 gpu to get it to use crunch 2 work units back to back what on earth do you insert to have 3 gpu's doing 6 wu back to back ?

or will it still be 0.5 and it will split them all itself into 2 each per gpu ?

best regards
Ian
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Message 39574 - Posted: 10 May 2010, 11:00:25 UTC - in response to Message 39572.  

...
and if the count command is 0.5 to get 1 gpu to get it to use crunch 2 work units back to back what on earth do you insert to have 3 gpu's doing 6 wu back to back ?

or will it still be 0.5 and it will split them all itself into 2 each per gpu ?

best regards
Ian


With 3 GPUs you will be doing 6WUs concurrently with <count>0.5</count> setting. (but isn't 4890 a 2GPUs card? With 3 of them in one box it should run 12WUs with that setting).
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Message 39575 - Posted: 10 May 2010, 11:18:30 UTC
Last modified: 10 May 2010, 11:51:53 UTC

no the 4870's were two gpu cards mine is a single slightly more powerful gpu card dont ask why ati decided to do the numerical backwards thing

now that i have 6 work units all going on 3 cards but still looking like they take just as long so the differance must be tiny is there any other little tweaks that might make a differance on a three card system where on a single card system might not be worth the bother

best regards
Ian
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Message 39577 - Posted: 10 May 2010, 12:33:54 UTC - in response to Message 39575.  

hello,

I'm in a bit of a pickle with this having two wu per gpu running
i thought that if you had two running the card would be continually active as each of the wu started and finished at differant times therefore never letting the card stop doing work

thats not happening on my machine each of the cards is doing both of its wu at exactly the same speed and finishing and starting exactly as it normally would on the activity meter on the control panal

i seem to remember when running one of these cards one of the wu would just stretch its legs a little bit which would keep the card active 100% of the time
now i'm just getting the same effect you usually get when ruuning 1 wu without the app

oh plus the units are taking a couple of extra seconds to do than the double the time they used to take so no gain their

best regards
Ian
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Message 39578 - Posted: 10 May 2010, 12:35:34 UTC

I am not using the anonymous platform but the stock GPU client. The one that downloads when attaching to Milkyway if a double precision GPU is detected.

This client uses the brook32a_ati.dll file and the milkyway_0.23_windows_intelx86_ati3ati client (I run 32bit XP Pro).

This combination runs 1 WU at any one time and gives no opportunity to run 2, as described by Zydor below.

Is there a way of modifying this client to run 2 WUs or do I need to locate and install the 0.23 anonymous client to get the app_info.xml file?
Go away, I was asleep


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Message 39579 - Posted: 10 May 2010, 13:04:35 UTC - in response to Message 39578.  

hi,

yes i think the only way to do it is to add the app and edit the xml file as shown above
i did it ages ago with one card and noticed no differance thought i'd give it another go because i have 3 cards crossfired and somebody said the differance would be greater but so far although i have 6 wu going theres no increase in work and the effect of keeping your card constantly active is not happening for me and seeing as its this constant activity that means more work done if its not doing it why have the app at all ?

will be doing some more testing but i can see me ditching it again

best regards
Ian
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Message 39580 - Posted: 10 May 2010, 13:27:59 UTC

my effort to use the xml with the 5870 fails.

- <app_info>
- <app>
<name>milkyway</name>
</app>
- <file_info>
<name>milkyway_0.23_windows_x86_64__ati13ati.exe</name>
<executable />
</file_info>
- <file_info>
<name>brook64a_ati.dll</name>
<executable />
</file_info>
- <app_version>
<app_name>milkyway</app_name>
<version_num>23</version_num>
<plan_class>ati13ati</plan_class>
<flops>1.0e11</flops>
<avg_ncpus>0.05</avg_ncpus>
<max_ncpus>1</max_ncpus>
- <coproc>
<type>ATI</type>
<count>1</count>
</coproc>
<cmdline />
- <file_ref>
<file_name>milkyway_0.23_windows_x86_64__ati13ati.exe</file_name>
<main_program />
</file_ref>
- <file_ref>
<file_name>brook64a_ati.dll</file_name>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
- <app_version>
<app_name>milkyway</app_name>
<version_num>22</version_num>
<flops>1.0e11</flops>
<avg_ncpus>0.05</avg_ncpus>
<max_ncpus>1</max_ncpus>
- <coproc>
<type>ati13ati</type>
<count>1</count>
</coproc>
<cmdline />
- <file_ref>
<file_name>milkyway_0.23_windows_x86_64__ati13ati.exe</file_name>
<main_program />
</file_ref>
- <file_ref>
<file_name>brook64a_ati.dll</file_name>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
</app_info>

what did I do wrong? this is obviously not edited for concurrent running, so I am mystified by the computation errors and not kin to wasting sent WUs as I fumble around this file.

thanks.

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Message 39581 - Posted: 10 May 2010, 14:08:49 UTC - in response to Message 39580.  
Last modified: 10 May 2010, 14:16:24 UTC

The parts you see:

- <

There is a "-" before the "<". The "-" is a control charactor which is inserted if you use the browser, Word or Wordpad (or similar) to edit the file. Its fine for normal use of Word or Wordpad etc, but not in our environment, we need a "clean" editor that does not insert control charactors. Those charactors are read as being part of the app_info file, so when run in our environment, it will fall over as the app tries work out what "-" means

Use Notepad to make the file, with that, what you type is what you get

Load up into notepad, and get rid of the "-" and should run fine assuming the exe and dll files match the ones you run.

EDIT: If you are trying to get two to run on one card, change the Count statement to: 0.5, not 1 - there are two instances of the Count statement to change. Close the BOINC manager and reopen to get new versions of the xml file loaded.

Regards
Zy
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Message 39582 - Posted: 10 May 2010, 14:18:16 UTC - in response to Message 39580.  
Last modified: 10 May 2010, 14:40:04 UTC

You can't use brook64a_ati.dll in an app_info.xml file. The program uses this file named as brook64.dll. You can't see it but the application copies and renames this file when it is run.

Either download the 0.23 optimised app from arkayn's site http://www.arkayn.us/op.html and install it according to the readme or rename the brook64a_ati.dll file to brook64.dll and in app_info.xml replace the references to brook64a_ati.dll with brook64.dll.

Note the manually downloaded version has a different name for the .exe file as well, so don't get things mixed up.:

Auto download = milkyway_0.23_windows_x86_64__ati13ati.exe
Manual download = astronomy_0.23_ATI_x64.exe

I would recommend you manually download the application if you are having trouble. The app_info.xml file is already correct for the files contained in the download and there are helpful notes in the readme file about how to adjust parameters and count value.
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Message 39583 - Posted: 10 May 2010, 14:34:56 UTC - in response to Message 39577.  


i thought that if you had two running the card would be continually active as each of the wu started and finished at differant times therefore never letting the card stop doing work

thats not happening on my machine each of the cards is doing both of its wu at exactly the same speed and finishing and starting exactly as it normally would on the activity meter on the control panal

To get tasks to finish at different times you need to do it manually by suspending all your tasks but one and letting that one task process to 50% and then resume all the tasks you have suspended. That's how it is done on a single GPU.

Not sure how you do it with 3 GPUs, possibly suspend all but 3 tasks, let those 3 run until 50% complete and then resume all suspended tasks.

Please excuse double post but 2 different responses required.
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Message 39586 - Posted: 10 May 2010, 15:56:15 UTC - in response to Message 39582.  

download the 0.23 optimised app from arkayn's site http://www.arkayn.us/op.html and install it according to the readme ...

That site stopped including the readme file in most of the optimized app packages.

David, can you add it back in so that crunchers are given a chance to ignore it? ;)
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Message 39587 - Posted: 10 May 2010, 16:41:12 UTC - in response to Message 39583.  

great support. I used the auto download concerned about the 5870 issues. since that issue surfaced, detached and attached which provided differently named exe and dll. left it alone until I saw this thread. I ASSumed that I just plug in the new names. many WUs died for my guess work. sorry.

went to the manual download and no problem, hopefully no errors from this 5870, ie., I hope this op was redone for the discovered 5870 problem.

now running 2 concurrently and hoping to minimize the chance of death by thermal cycling. a very helpful thread for a matter I had noticed, how quickly the card's temp changes in that short time between WUs and my card is not running that hot (72-76), but had not pondered the potential threat over time.

thanks.
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