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Profile Travis
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Message 39729 - Posted: 15 May 2010, 7:51:58 UTC - in response to Message 39666.  

It seems to happen on all WUs which require a consensus. The following WU didn't agree with an ATI result and is waiting on a Cuda result in order to decide which is valid (given past results my bet is on the ATI card.... curses, foiled again!):

http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/workunit.php?wuid=104606076

In this case both wingmen are Windows and the ATI is a Windows 7 64-bit system running MW v0.23 and the Cuda23 is a Windows Vista 32-bit system running v0.24.... Mine hasn't changed... though it is looking at me reproachfully.

... Not sure how "consensus" works on the MW system - it looks like every WU unit goes out once and, presumably on the basis of some criteria in the result (i.e. "found something interesting", the same WU is sent to another PC for verification. If the second PC agrees with the first the WU is OK if not a third WU is sent out and decides which of the first two is the winner.... (if all three disagree Travis has found his dumb alien.... but I ain't seen that yet... ;)

The problem is that when my MAC sends in a single response and there is no second WU the WU is validated and credits are awarded. Every time the MAC gets a WU which is also run by other PCs the MAC is invariably (as far as I can see) wrong.... this means that single WU results (which are not checked against a second result because they don't find anything worth checking) are probably also wrong!

This makes the results returned my Macs on the v0.29 app unreliable... even when they are awarded credits (not that I'm complaining I don't mind being awarded credits for being wrong.... I usually am).




What I thought I've done is temporarily not validating the OS X applications server side -- they all should be awarded credit. Part of the reason they weren't validating correctly in some cases is that they were using the new summation method in the new version of the application.

I'm pretty much just waiting for Anthony to recompile the new CUDA applications, and for Cluster Physik to do the ATI ones then we'll be make the swap over to that new application, so all this won't be an issue.

It's also been finals week so things have been pretty crazy around here, sorry for not responding sooner!
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Message 39735 - Posted: 15 May 2010, 14:05:51 UTC - in response to Message 39729.  

What I thought I've done is temporarily not validating the OS X applications server side -- they all should be awarded credit. Part of the reason they weren't validating correctly in some cases is that they were using the new summation method in the new version of the application.

I'm pretty much just waiting for Anthony to recompile the new CUDA applications, and for Cluster Physik to do the ATI ones then we'll be make the swap over to that new application, so all this won't be an issue.

It's also been finals week so things have been pretty crazy around here, sorry for not responding sooner!


That's OK I figured you would have lot to do. I'll probably be back next weekend and see how things are coming along.

Thanks for the reply.
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Message 39736 - Posted: 15 May 2010, 14:09:53 UTC

And thanks for all of your time and effort attacking this problem. I'm still with the project.


Plus SETI Classic = 21,082 WUs
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Message 39844 - Posted: 19 May 2010, 23:19:39 UTC - in response to Message 39736.  

What's the status of the Mac OSX application?

I ran a WU today that had been done by an ATI processor and was up for validation. My result was taken, but the validation was marked as inconclusive. The WU was then sent to another ATI GPU and the result was validated with the firs ATI. I was not credited...
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Message 39875 - Posted: 21 May 2010, 9:33:12 UTC

I think we need to be patient for a little longer until the software versions change for MAC OS X. Certainly the v0.29 app fails every time it is validated by another app (whether ATI or CUDA or CPU).
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Message 39877 - Posted: 21 May 2010, 13:31:06 UTC

@NorPer - You might consider the following until the new code comes through:

Go to your account and click the "Tasks: View link. For each task, click on the Work Unit ID link to see if you are the only one listed and that the minimum quorum reads "1". If there is another computer also assigned to the unit you will almost certainly end up without credit so abort the unit and wait for the server to send out the next one.

This will also keep your wingman from having to wait hours before the server sends out the unit to a third (or fourth) computer for validation. It should speed up the overall project computation (slightly) and may help reduce the load on the server(?). It will definitely help your energy efficiency since only creditable tasks will be crunched.

I don't think that this violates either the letter or the spirit of the rules of the project since you will be aborting tasks that will be unusable anyway. If anyone has a better solution for using OS X in the interim please let me know.


Plus SETI Classic = 21,082 WUs
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Message 39990 - Posted: 27 May 2010, 17:30:18 UTC - in response to Message 39875.  

I think we need to be patient for a little longer until the software versions change for MAC OS X. Certainly the v0.29 app fails every time it is validated by another app (whether ATI or CUDA or CPU).


I should have updated the server so it doesn't do that validation for the time being... I'll check to see what isn't working.
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Message 40034 - Posted: 28 May 2010, 20:05:40 UTC - in response to Message 39990.  

I think we need to be patient for a little longer until the software versions change for MAC OS X. Certainly the v0.29 app fails every time it is validated by another app (whether ATI or CUDA or CPU).


I should have updated the server so it doesn't do that validation for the time being... I'll check to see what isn't working.


Thanks Travis - just saw your post and will download a couple of WUs this weekend see how they go and let you know.
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Message 40057 - Posted: 30 May 2010, 6:28:36 UTC
Last modified: 30 May 2010, 6:31:52 UTC

Here is the update - looks like the same problem as before. I suspect the server configuration is OK the problem is the validity/usefulness of results from MACs:

1. If the WUs run by themselves (i.e. there is no quorum) they validate and get credits.
2. If the WUs run to validate "inconclusive" results from other WUs they do not succeed in resolving the issue and a fourth WU has to be sent out. This always results in the MAC WU being invalidated.

The situation suggests that either MAC WUs are right and the rest of the world is wrong or, more unthinkably, MACs are wrong and the rest of the world is right.... ;)
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Message 40060 - Posted: 30 May 2010, 8:54:21 UTC
Last modified: 30 May 2010, 8:55:11 UTC

In case it is may help the work unit which didn't work for the MAC was run against another 3 tasks all of which completed:

[urlhttp://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/workunit.php?wuid=112838646[/url]

The two ATI 4700/48000 v0.23 (Gipsel) apps ran on Windows 7 64-bit and Windows XP 32-bit tasks were validated and given credit while both the Gipsel v0.21 optimised app and the OS X 64-bit v0.29 were marked as invalid.

This is the stderr output for the MAC OS X run:
<core_client_version>6.10.56</core_client_version>
<![CDATA[
<stderr_txt>
<background_integral> 0.00190678182272625797 </background_integral>
<stream_integrals> 322.33718710180266953103 0.73352179106380688278 2409.85511512679568113526 </stream_integrals>
<background_only_likelihood> -3.32514159191908165170 </background_only_likelihood>
<stream_only_likelihood> -4.68067977848977445632 -13.80246848474236287529 -4.69941102303296975862 </stream_only_likelihood>
<search_likelihood> -3.16812541245001977330 </search_likelihood>
<search_application> stock_osx_x86_64: 0.29 double </search_application>
01:53:32 (38211): called boinc_finish

</stderr_txt>
]]>


Both ATI runs which were considered valid seem to ignore input parameters from app_info.xml but I suspect this does not mean anything...

Any results returned by the OS X v0.29 app may not be reliable... as it validates only when it is the only task in the run (i.e. no cross-checking is done).
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Message 40099 - Posted: 1 Jun 2010, 16:14:19 UTC - in response to Message 40060.  

I really think I have the problem (temporarily) fixed now. When we swap to the new application this shouldn't be an issue.
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Message 40686 - Posted: 26 Jun 2010, 14:22:45 UTC

Sorry I have been away for a while. I have run a few v0.31 WUs on the MAC and they seem to be OK even when cross-checked with a second WU.

Looks like the problem been resolved (as already stated in the News thread) - many thanks Travis.
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