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ProfilePhiladelphia
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Message 2377 - Posted: 19 Mar 2008, 1:39:04 UTC - in response to Message 2374.  

But Al ...all that being said and true ....Travis has also said we are beating the BlueGene supercomputer in both the amount of results returned and the short turnaround time so how can Boinc not be at least an adequate platform?

I hope that BOINC is an adequate platform! I would certainly miss Milkyway if it was no BOINC project anymore. ;-)

Btw: my turnaround time for 20 WUs is about 80 to 85 minutes on my new lappy.
So a 12 hrs deadline would be no problem if there were almost no outages and mostly always WUs available. That way I'd be happy to crunch along Milkyway exclusively on that box 24/7. *grin*


I agree Cori, I don't see a problem with the 12 hr turn around, it seem like it's more than enough time.
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Message 2378 - Posted: 19 Mar 2008, 4:37:13 UTC

BOINC should work fine with this project. The short deadlines will make the client work on this project more in the short term, however the client will eventually decide to run other projects.

Reducing the number of tasks out per CPU will not cause insurmountable problems. I also run BURP there the deadlines are normally 12 hours and you are only allowed 2 tasks per CPU.

Not having a constant supply of work can also be a plus in this situation. It makes the client switch to different projects more often.

It is a disadvantage for participants that do not have a constant connection to the internet though. If they do not connect often enough to return the tasks they may not be able to return and get credit quick enough.
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Message 2380 - Posted: 19 Mar 2008, 6:33:42 UTC

As has been said above, the project needs to set it's parameters according to science.

Not every project is for every computer - and should not be.
Finishing 200-years Spin-up model on CPDN will take me about 4 months of C2Q running 24/7. Or it would have been a year+ on C2D office machine. Or 3-5 years on laptop.
Not every machine is up to the job that a particular project requires and that's OK.
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Message 2384 - Posted: 19 Mar 2008, 14:09:06 UTC

Agreed.
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Message 2967 - Posted: 2 Apr 2008, 22:47:11 UTC

Deadlines should be set so that the science of the project is done. Time critical tasks should have shorter and tighter deadlines than non-time sensitive ones. There is no reason that a BOINC client cannot cope with deadlines as short as 3 hours if the tasks can be done in less than that time. V5.10 should be able to cope with deadlines as short as several minutes. The reason for 3 hours is the default connection interval for older clients is 2.4 hours.

BOINC will eventually drop the LTD of a project with short deadlines low enough so that it is not a candidate for receiving work.

A useful modification to the server (if it is not already in place) would be to block work allocation to hosts that have a connection interval larger than the time to deadline of the task. The connection interval is a promise by the user that the computer will be allowed to attach to projects at least that frequently.

That said, I personally would hope for deadlines slightly longer than 12 hours as I have 6 computers that cannot be attached for 14 hour stretches and I would have to detach those. If the deadlines should be that short, then those computers should not be attached anyway.


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Message 2990 - Posted: 4 Apr 2008, 0:32:07 UTC - in response to Message 2967.  

Deadlines should be set so that the science of the project is done. Time critical tasks should have shorter and tighter deadlines than non-time sensitive ones. There is no reason that a BOINC client cannot cope with deadlines as short as 3 hours if the tasks can be done in less than that time. V5.10 should be able to cope with deadlines as short as several minutes. The reason for 3 hours is the default connection interval for older clients is 2.4 hours.

BOINC will eventually drop the LTD of a project with short deadlines low enough so that it is not a candidate for receiving work.

A useful modification to the server (if it is not already in place) would be to block work allocation to hosts that have a connection interval larger than the time to deadline of the task. The connection interval is a promise by the user that the computer will be allowed to attach to projects at least that frequently.

That said, I personally would hope for deadlines slightly longer than 12 hours as I have 6 computers that cannot be attached for 14 hour stretches and I would have to detach those. If the deadlines should be that short, then those computers should not be attached anyway.


Isn't there a way to go into one of the boinc files to change the LTD? It seems to me I read that in a thread a long time ago at SETI.
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Message 2994 - Posted: 4 Apr 2008, 2:35:35 UTC - in response to Message 2990.  

Isn't there a way to go into one of the boinc files to change the LTD? It seems to me I read that in a thread a long time ago at SETI.


Yes, go to the Client state file, open with Notepad, search for 'long', change and save.
Doesn't expecting the unexpected make the unexpected the expected?
If it makes sense, DON'T do it.
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Message 2997 - Posted: 4 Apr 2008, 3:53:36 UTC - in response to Message 2994.  

Isn't there a way to go into one of the boinc files to change the LTD? It seems to me I read that in a thread a long time ago at SETI.


Yes, go to the Client state file, open with Notepad, search for 'long', change and save.



This must be done with the Boinc client closed imho.
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Message 3004 - Posted: 4 Apr 2008, 6:13:26 UTC - in response to Message 2997.  

Isn't there a way to go into one of the boinc files to change the LTD?

Yes, go to the Client state file, open with Notepad, search for 'long', change and save.

This must be done with the Boinc client closed imho.

Make sure also that the sum of all projects’ debts is zero when you’re done.
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Message 3009 - Posted: 4 Apr 2008, 12:35:04 UTC - in response to Message 2997.  
Last modified: 4 Apr 2008, 12:44:19 UTC

This must be done with the Boinc client closed imho.


Yes it is, forgot that. Also if you want to be sure that you don't screw up, copy the file before changes.
Doesn't expecting the unexpected make the unexpected the expected?
If it makes sense, DON'T do it.
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Message 3013 - Posted: 4 Apr 2008, 19:04:39 UTC
Last modified: 4 Apr 2008, 19:06:34 UTC

thanks everyone :)

are the ones with minues numbers owed crunch time or the other way around. thanks again.
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Message 3016 - Posted: 4 Apr 2008, 19:54:04 UTC

I believe so. If you want one project to run more or less you can change accordingly.

Short debt I think is daily, and Long debt is monthly.

The ones I have suspended still add time eventually.
Doesn't expecting the unexpected make the unexpected the expected?
If it makes sense, DON'T do it.
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Message 3022 - Posted: 4 Apr 2008, 21:53:55 UTC

thanks.
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Message 3026 - Posted: 5 Apr 2008, 0:31:10 UTC - in response to Message 3016.  

I believe so. If you want one project to run more or less you can change accordingly.

Short debt I think is daily, and Long debt is monthly.

The ones I have suspended still add time eventually.

Short term debt determines what runs next unless a project needs EDF.

Long term debt determines what project gets the next chance at download (there are several gates as well, but the highest LTD that passes the gates is contacted for work).


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Message 3027 - Posted: 5 Apr 2008, 0:32:24 UTC - in response to Message 3013.  

thanks everyone :)

are the ones with minues numbers owed crunch time or the other way around. thanks again.

Positive debt means that it is owed CPU time negative debt means that it has used too much and owes CPU time.


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Message 3028 - Posted: 5 Apr 2008, 0:33:26 UTC - in response to Message 3004.  

Isn't there a way to go into one of the boinc files to change the LTD?

Yes, go to the Client state file, open with Notepad, search for 'long', change and save.

This must be done with the Boinc client closed imho.

Make sure also that the sum of all projects’ debts is zero when you’re done.

BOINC will do the re-balance for you if it isn't.


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Message 3029 - Posted: 5 Apr 2008, 0:37:07 UTC

With a 5 day deadline, BOINC can be rather relaxed about returning results. It will wait up to a day in the most recent code if there is work from other projects to be done and no work fetch is needed from MilkyWay.

Best is if the deadlines are set to match the needs of the science.


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Message 3031 - Posted: 5 Apr 2008, 1:26:35 UTC

It has been awhile since I had to change much.
Doesn't expecting the unexpected make the unexpected the expected?
If it makes sense, DON'T do it.
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Message 3034 - Posted: 5 Apr 2008, 9:10:22 UTC - in response to Message 3028.  

Make sure also that the sum of all projects’ debts is zero when you’re done.

BOINC will do the re-balance for you if it isn't.

But it might make adjustments other than you would like, mightn’t it? E.g. adding debt back to the project you had just manually reduced?
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Message 3038 - Posted: 5 Apr 2008, 11:56:03 UTC - in response to Message 3034.  

Make sure also that the sum of all projects’ debts is zero when you’re done.

BOINC will do the re-balance for you if it isn't.

But it might make adjustments other than you would like, mightn’t it? E.g. adding debt back to the project you had just manually reduced?

It shifts them all the same amount.

Example:
You start with 2 projects at +100,000 and -100,000.
You set the second to 0 (for +100,000 and 0).
BOINC will shift these to be +50,000 and -50,000.

This keeps the relative distance between them the same (100,000).

BOINC has to do this when a project is detached or reset.


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