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ProfileCappy [Team Musketeers]
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Message 2602 - Posted: 23 Mar 2008, 23:51:48 UTC - in response to Message 2601.  


If the whole purpose is to level credits among projects i'd say we're a bit lower than Spinhenge now... btw, don't take seti optimized into account for that cuz seti is absolutely not suited for comparing credits(not even the optimized one) ... believe me i know what i'm talking about :)




Yes buddy I am much aware of you from my Seti days but I am sure you were not aware of me ;)

Seti-opty because that seems to be the target amongst projects that care....so that "should be" middle of the road target....errr not saying you can't be higher ;)



you know what the problem with Seti@Home is????

they frakked their project up peroid.... millions of outages,

the dropped their granted credits into the dumpster,, ok which inturn

they lost ALOT of their follwing ( crunchers ) now DA starts to DEMAND

that everyone else LOWER their credits to maych SETI,,, if you have to

ask why then well you better start using your noodle.... If everyone lowers

their credits to match SETI or even lower then SETI well then SETI starts

to look good again.... 1+1 people. DA has been planing this out for awhile ill

bet and or its the ONLY way he can get that FOLLOWING back.

i dont know it seems very clear to me whats going on.

WoW ty for letting me get that off my chest :) but if you sit back and think

about what ive said,, it all starts to make sence. maybe not for everyone

but it does for me :) :)
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Message 2603 - Posted: 23 Mar 2008, 23:52:41 UTC - in response to Message 2600.  

See Emanuel what the deal is for me is there is what I deem 8-10 worthy projects I crunch for....I will tend to give higher resource share to those that pay better but not always so ...look at where I am at LHC....but because there are 50+ projects out there ,,,,the competition now plays a role...look at the stats sites running stats specifically targeting those projects and teams competing in them.


Yeah, y'know if you're reasonable about it I think it's fine to make a trade-off based on credits. You have to use something, right? But what annoys me is seeing the posts above where people say "I joined this for the credits, now it sucks, bye-bye." I think you can at least pick projects based on the science they do, then prioritize between them using credits if you can't decide how else.
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Message 2604 - Posted: 23 Mar 2008, 23:57:08 UTC - in response to Message 2593.  

2.17 is a bit too low... it's just in the range of what the clients claim and these original benchmark based credits are much lower than the average.

A good value would be 3.8 or even 4, which would also keep the project attractive for (fast) modern 64bit machines.


even 4 is a bit off here's i how to calculated (take into account that times per wu is from an highly optimized windows 64 bit app that i've been testing)

86400(sec/day) / 300 (sec/wu) * 8 (dual quad core xeon 5365@3 ghz=8 cpus) *2.17 credits ~ 4999 credits a day ...

usually on abc@home running 64 bit apps i get a rac of 11.6K /day...

So 4.0 or even 4.2 would be a fair value for a WU.

Anyone wanna comment on my calculation ?





I agree, they payouts should be based on the standard applications, not the optimized ones.

As far as what I was thinking this would level out at was in the 4.5 - 5.0 range which I think is still too low when you're looking at what the standard app would be receiving.

Crunch3r, as far as your calculations go, they look correct to me.

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Message 2605 - Posted: 24 Mar 2008, 0:01:39 UTC

Won't all of this go out the window when the wu's are lengthened?

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Message 2606 - Posted: 24 Mar 2008, 0:03:57 UTC

Good time for the mini athlon@poem until the credits are raised to a good (reason to run the project) level.
Will be back in a week i hope ;)
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Message 2607 - Posted: 24 Mar 2008, 0:04:30 UTC - in response to Message 2594.  

I just got my first (and last) WU with the new and improved credit.

I enjoyed the short time I crunched here but I must bid my farewell. That type of payout is not acceptable.

Enjoy everyone until such time as it (if it is) corrected.


Help me out here, I'm confused. Do you get money for this? I know it's nice to see the numbers go up, but to only crunch for a project because it's giving out a godly amount of credit..? I'm not trying to start a flame war her, nor even a discussion of human psychology. But I just don't get what the big deal is.
Me, I contribute because I like what Milkyway@Home is trying to accomplish, and in my opinion if every computer in the world donated its free time towards projects like this, we'd be answering important questions all over the place.. and that's what it should be about. Admittedly seeing your credits go up does make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but it should be for selfless, not selfish, reasons.
I'll leave the calculations to those who care (though I feel for the project maintainers who have to)


Let me help clarify so I can resolve any confusion you may have.

With the possible exception of a couple of BOINC projects, they are all worth while projects contributing useful information to the community.

Having said that, I have crunched for about 15 different projects at one time or another and some much more than others.

Since I don't have a 'pet' project any longer since SETI went wacko, I like to bounce around to the top 3 or so projects that have optimized apps that allow me to pick up a few extra cobblestones.

All the projects I crunch for are trying to, as you say, 'answer important questions'.

If you believe that to be, as you said, 'selfish', that's an opinion you are entitled to.

Happy Easter.
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ProfileJayargh
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Message 2608 - Posted: 24 Mar 2008, 0:05:24 UTC

Seti is different because they go the 3rd party route ...probably deviously so.....they still have a standard app that people are getting a low credit for....why the optimizations can't just happen server side so all get the benefit based on their platform is beyond me ...hence devious....all users (like here) should share in the wealth so to speak.

Here everyone gets the benefit of the opty so the only base you still have is all opty...get my point?
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Message 2610 - Posted: 24 Mar 2008, 0:12:26 UTC - in response to Message 2608.  
Last modified: 24 Mar 2008, 0:14:03 UTC

Seti is different because they go the 3rd party route ...probably deviously so.....they still have a standard app that people are getting a low credit for....why the optimizations can't just happen server side so all get the benefit based on their platform is beyond me


Welcome to the club :P


Here everyone gets the benefit of the opty so the only base you still have is all opty...get my point?


Yes, but that still doesn't work out cuz seti credit granting is broken as hell... you only have to take into account those wus having 'worth' 54 credits... those take 33% more time to process and therefore grant 33% less credits... that' a known fact over at seti but yet they won't fix it for whatever reasons so comparing MW to seti is a no go...

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ProfileCappy [Team Musketeers]
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Message 2611 - Posted: 24 Mar 2008, 0:14:13 UTC

one other thing,, alot of the biotchin is becasue alot of us belong to TEAMS

which inturn EVERY CREDIT COUNTS. no we dont crunch all the TOP GRANTING PROJECTS but we do like to have a few to keep that daily production up...

my team SETI.USA is going to break the 1 Billion mark here hopefully by

mid April , YES I SAID 1 BILLION COMBINED CREDITS !!! now that isnt all

high granting credit projects, if you look we are involved with just about

every single project out there. for alot of us its a Compitition, Braging

rights... we dont get paid for doing this, we do it becasue we enjoy it,

we enjoy the Compitiion... ( excuse my spelling 1 to many brewski's lol and i dont care )

but anyway yes the credits do mean alot to some of us that compete in almost

all the projects out there. i hope that explains alot of it.
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Message 2612 - Posted: 24 Mar 2008, 0:17:14 UTC - in response to Message 2610.  


Yes, but that still doesn't work out cuz seti credit granting is broken as hell... you only have to take into account those wus having 'worth' 54 credits... those take 33% more time to process and therefore grant 33% less credits... that' a known fact over at seti but yet they won't fix it for whatever reasons so comparing MW to seti is a no go...



I concede my point to our magician(with apps) friend :)
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Message 2613 - Posted: 24 Mar 2008, 0:25:51 UTC

Not many complained about getting shorted credit before the optimizations. So why gripe now when the credit is rougly the same as it was then. The wu's were cut down to 1/3 and the credit 1/3(approx.).
Doesn't expecting the unexpected make the unexpected the expected?
If it makes sense, DON'T do it.
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Message 2614 - Posted: 24 Mar 2008, 0:30:01 UTC
Last modified: 24 Mar 2008, 0:36:07 UTC

btw Crunch3r the site you quoted with the project credit comparasin chart which has been used as a hammer on many projects is so full of holes is smells like moldy swiss cheese ;D

I might also say that not only is Milkyways science exemplary the communication between the admin and usership is so good it at this point ...it should be used as a shining example to all Boinc Projects :D I have been pounding Cosmology and Orbit as of late on this issue.
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Message 2615 - Posted: 24 Mar 2008, 0:32:08 UTC - in response to Message 2613.  

Not many complained about getting shorted credit before the optimizations. So why gripe now when the credit is rougly the same as it was then. The wu's were cut down to 1/3 and the credit 1/3(approx.).


I think I was quite clear with my explanation, if I wasn't I'll take another stab at it.
I currently have the project set on 'no new WU's' and it will stay as such for the foreseeable near future.
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Message 2616 - Posted: 24 Mar 2008, 0:35:05 UTC - in response to Message 2614.  

btw Crunch3r the site you quoted with the project credit comparasin chart which has been used as a hammer on many projects is so full of flaws is smells like moldy swiss cheese ;D


I know, yet it's used for 'leveling credtis' ... the guy who runs the site is well aware of that and after serveral tries to tell DA he finaly figured it out by himself and comitted that all of his recent tries to manipulate stats are based on wrong numbers :)


I might also say that not only is Milkyways science exemplary the communication between the admin and usership is so good it at this point ...it should be used as a shining example to all Boinc Projects :D


What else can i say ... i totaly agree with you :)


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Message 2617 - Posted: 24 Mar 2008, 1:01:12 UTC

I agree that granted credit was too high before (although I enjoyed it) and is too low now. Some of my 64 bit Linux boxes are now getting less than claimed, while they get more than claimed on other projects with 64bit applications.

It will certainly put MilkyWay lower on my list of priorities as there are quite a few projects which will give more credit for the same amount of crunching, bigger caches and longer deadlines.

Sure, you can't buy anything with credits, but with so many projects to choose from, credits do mean something to people who are in it for the competition.

You don't need to be the highest "paying" project, but don't strive to be among the lowest.


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Message 2618 - Posted: 24 Mar 2008, 1:12:11 UTC - in response to Message 2617.  

I agree that granted credit was too high before (although I enjoyed it) and is too low now. Some of my 64 bit Linux boxes are now getting less than claimed, while they get more than claimed on other projects with 64bit applications.

It will certainly put MilkyWay lower on my list of priorities as there are quite a few projects which will give more credit for the same amount of crunching, bigger caches and longer deadlines.

Sure, you can't buy anything with credits, but with so many projects to choose from, credits do mean something to people who are in it for the competition.

You don't need to be the highest "paying" project, but don't strive to be among the lowest.



Well said Yoda.
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Message 2619 - Posted: 24 Mar 2008, 1:45:54 UTC
Last modified: 24 Mar 2008, 1:57:04 UTC

Well, what can I say. The credit here was good for a while. With the reduction in credits, I think I'll go back to ABC@home as the primary source of crunching and Milkyway will be put on the back burner. When the credit returns as being profitable again, then I shall return. Think of crunching as a bank.... "The more interest you give, the more money you will have invested, and the more customers you'll have." Wake me up when the credit does up again. I don't really care what the other projects give as credit. Maybe if you kept yours high, the other projects will have to rethink what they give to lure crunchers back. If you're going to grant your credit more inline with other projects why should I volunteer my computer time to your project????? Why settle for hamburger when you can have steak. The credit here is now hamburger instead of steak now. I am reducing or stopping the work an all my computers for this project.

Remember --- Hamburger (like all the others) or Steak (unique).
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Message 2620 - Posted: 24 Mar 2008, 1:55:36 UTC

Before I take the last computer off of this project in 5 minutes, I would like to let you know why I am leaving..If you really care.

I have 67 machine with over 220 cores and that is my fleet. It runs me around 300.00 per month to run them. This is my hobby and up until a few hours ago, I was happy to be here. Then like a lot of the other projects you tried to make the rest of the world happy by what you call brining you credits in line.. Hey you guys run the project and if you want to keep the power user, do what you have to do to keep us. But do as you will, its you toy not mine.

So I will now leave and wish you the best on your project.

And for those of you who want the credits the same on all of the projects, All that I have to say to you is get a life, For most of you who complain about the credits have a hard time getting 1k per day rac...
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Message 2621 - Posted: 24 Mar 2008, 1:58:15 UTC
Last modified: 24 Mar 2008, 2:00:58 UTC

the credits need to go back up to where they were! dont let DA push you guys around! be the rebels in the boinc community and make things more interresting! i hope your quick at raising the credits or in 2 days im out also.
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Message 2622 - Posted: 24 Mar 2008, 1:58:58 UTC
Last modified: 24 Mar 2008, 2:12:33 UTC

I second that, Dr. Dan T. Morris @ SETI.USA.... All my computers just went to no new work. However, I will finish what is currently on them.

Dave and Travis, Don't lower your standards, let the other projects raise theirs.
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