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Message 4929 - Posted: 21 Aug 2008, 21:50:03 UTC - in response to Message 4928.  
Last modified: 21 Aug 2008, 22:00:03 UTC

No PB, you're missing the point.
Unlimited sportsman, top fuel etc ain't bracket racing.


I said
Drag Racing does it too with certain Types of Racing

did I not ...

Anyway it's a endless argument with both sides having their valid points & will go on & on I suspect. But for right now I have some Grass to mow, which in the Grand Scheme of things of my life is way more important than whats going on in this Thread right now ... Peace, Chill & see ya later ... :)
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Message 4930 - Posted: 21 Aug 2008, 22:05:11 UTC - in response to Message 4929.  

Anyway it's a endless argument with both sides having their valid points & will go on & on I suspect. But for right now I have some Grass to mow, which in the Grand Scheme of things of my life is way more important than whats going on in this Thread right now ..


Well sure. You got what YOU wanted, by starting this argument. Have fun!

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ProfileTeratoma [SETI.USA]
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Message 4931 - Posted: 21 Aug 2008, 22:11:29 UTC

on the anti-motivational theme....



I guess Crunch3r got caught focusing. =8-0
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Message 4932 - Posted: 21 Aug 2008, 22:22:36 UTC
Last modified: 21 Aug 2008, 22:29:23 UTC

LOL

I only stumbled across this issue by accident. Nothing about this on our team forums (until today)...read this in a thread regarding the new batch of workunits @ Einstein (By far a significantly more civil discussion regarding credits).

Rather than make accusations at a particular individual or call anyone's notion "ridiculous" or just plain calling this whole situation fair or unfair..I do have only 1 suggestion and 1 comment (insight).

@ Travis..please take your position and response to this entire issue and objectively apply it to another situation. I have seen "gizmo assembler", farmer, and the like..use your own scenario. By no means am I suggesting to listen or use these examples..what I am suggesting is to make an effort to look at it objectivly from outside the realm of BOINC.

I do wish to address one final thing. In another topic it was posted something like "Why didn't Crunch3r's team address the extreme increase in production?" My intial response with team moral responsibility - I see it as being no different as my team is responsible for my posts?!? But that is a whole different can of worms...anyway since I am affiliated w/Crunch3r by team, I am 100% certain that Crunch3r has never posted "Hey everyone..look at my app @ Milky Way!" He has never revealed any such information..so my first assumtion was that he had access to some serious hardware (besides Intel gave him one sweet V8 in the past). Given his optimizing talent..it would be naive for me to believe so. So I did inquire why Crunch3r's production far exceeded any fellow teammates participation. Well to date, there still hasn't been a response.

I am not surprized that he kept silent until it was brought to light here. Nor am I surprized of his unwillingness to release this version (though he has publicly stated that he offered most of these improvements to the project admins). So I am not the least bit surpized of the sour taste he must have after the days of SETI.
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Message 4933 - Posted: 21 Aug 2008, 22:34:41 UTC - in response to Message 4930.  

Anyway it's a endless argument with both sides having their valid points & will go on & on I suspect. But for right now I have some Grass to mow, which in the Grand Scheme of things of my life is way more important than whats going on in this Thread right now ..


Well sure. You got what YOU wanted, by starting this argument. Have fun!


Zombie, if it wasn't me bringing it out in the open then it would have been somebody else & soon too I imagine because a lot of other people knew what he was doing and they weren't happy with it either.

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Brian Silvers

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Message 4935 - Posted: 21 Aug 2008, 23:00:48 UTC - in response to Message 4933.  

Anyway it's a endless argument with both sides having their valid points & will go on & on I suspect. But for right now I have some Grass to mow, which in the Grand Scheme of things of my life is way more important than whats going on in this Thread right now ..


Well sure. You got what YOU wanted, by starting this argument. Have fun!


Zombie, if it wasn't me bringing it out in the open then it would have been somebody else & soon too I imagine because a lot of other people knew what he was doing and they weren't happy with it either.



"What he was doing" was not illegal, immoral, or "cheating". He has no obligation to share the app with you. If I were to download the source code and spend my time compiling it and testing it to make sure it was returning valid results, then would you accuse me of "cheating" too?

Using the excuse of "someone else would've done it anyway" is just that, an excuse. It should've been handled privately, or not at all.
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Message 4936 - Posted: 21 Aug 2008, 23:07:44 UTC

My last words on the issue:

I think (at least to me) this is the point some are trying to make.

To stick with the racing analogy. When I get beat we shake hands exchange sentiments like "whoa bra, dat one fast car you get" and go to the pub for pints. It doesn't really matter one bit. Anyone can go faster, all it takes is MONEY.

Similarly anyone can buy more computers. Heck fill warehouses with them if you like.
On the other hand, what cruncher has done takes TALENT! This cannot be bought and is invaluable.
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Message 4939 - Posted: 21 Aug 2008, 23:47:03 UTC - in response to Message 4933.  
Last modified: 21 Aug 2008, 23:47:45 UTC

Well sure. You got what YOU wanted, by starting this argument. Have fun!


Zombie, if it wasn't me bringing it out in the open then it would have been somebody else & soon too I imagine because a lot of other people knew what he was doing and they weren't happy with it either.


Just because "people" are unhappy, it does not follow that they have a valid or rational reason for being so. Or that they are entitled to have their mood "fixed". If nothing wrong is happening, or no rules being broken, then there is nothing that warrants action. Such was the case here.

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Message 4940 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008, 0:04:28 UTC - in response to Message 4935.  

Anyway it's a endless argument with both sides having their valid points & will go on & on I suspect. But for right now I have some Grass to mow, which in the Grand Scheme of things of my life is way more important than whats going on in this Thread right now ..


Well sure. You got what YOU wanted, by starting this argument. Have fun!


Zombie, if it wasn't me bringing it out in the open then it would have been somebody else & soon too I imagine because a lot of other people knew what he was doing and they weren't happy with it either.



"What he was doing" was not illegal, immoral, or "cheating". He has no obligation to share the app with you. If I were to download the source code and spend my time compiling it and testing it to make sure it was returning valid results, then would you accuse me of "cheating" too?

Using the excuse of "someone else would've done it anyway" is just that, an excuse. It should've been handled privately, or not at all.


Whatever Brian, I learned long ago not to argue with you because you have Tunnel Vision and only see what you want to see. So I suppose now that your unhappy with the events taking shape here you'll be cutting back on your Participation too ... :)

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Message 4944 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008, 0:15:34 UTC - in response to Message 4940.  
Last modified: 22 Aug 2008, 0:19:14 UTC

Anyway it's a endless argument with both sides having their valid points & will go on & on I suspect. But for right now I have some Grass to mow, which in the Grand Scheme of things of my life is way more important than whats going on in this Thread right now ..


Well sure. You got what YOU wanted, by starting this argument. Have fun!


Zombie, if it wasn't me bringing it out in the open then it would have been somebody else & soon too I imagine because a lot of other people knew what he was doing and they weren't happy with it either.



"What he was doing" was not illegal, immoral, or "cheating". He has no obligation to share the app with you. If I were to download the source code and spend my time compiling it and testing it to make sure it was returning valid results, then would you accuse me of "cheating" too?

Using the excuse of "someone else would've done it anyway" is just that, an excuse. It should've been handled privately, or not at all.


Whatever Brian, I learned long ago not to argue with you because you have Tunnel Vision and only see what you want to see. So I suppose now that your unhappy with the events taking shape here you'll be cutting back on your Participation too ... :)



Psst... Do you see the "New Member" and the join date of yesterday (UTC)? Do you see the 20 tasks downloaded just around 100 minutes ago? How about the Credit and RAC entries of 0?

The *ONLY* reason I joined was because I was "unhappy" with the statements that Travis has made. There is an allegation of cheating, which was not done. You played a part in stirring the pot. What I see is that you were jealous. Now that Travis has been hoodwinked into putting a cap on him, you can still be "competitive", seeing how you're the #2...

I have no way of "competing" in the league that either of you are in. That statement does not mean that you're better than me, it's just a statement of fact that I don't have new enough computers and enough of them to come anywhere close.

I already pretty much know that I'll end up at about 40-50 cr/hr here, which is well above what the Cross Project Parity Police want. I hope you remember your antics here when the day comes that Travis caves in to the pressure of "parity".
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Message 4945 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008, 0:18:38 UTC - in response to Message 4944.  


The *ONLY* reason I joined was because I was "unhappy" with the statements that Travis has made. There is an allegation of cheating, which was not done. You played a part in stirring the pot. What I see is that you were jealous. Now that Travis has been hoodwinked into putting a cap on him, you can still be "competitive", seeing how you're the #2...


I was neither hoodwinked, nor bamboozled. Fact of the matter was that Crunch3r's app was getting way more credit than we intend the project to ever give out, plain and simple. I fixed the problem in what i thought was the most appropriate manner possible.

All of this will be a moot point anyways when we release the next version of the app in a week or two.
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Message 4946 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008, 0:24:31 UTC - in response to Message 4945.  


The *ONLY* reason I joined was because I was "unhappy" with the statements that Travis has made. There is an allegation of cheating, which was not done. You played a part in stirring the pot. What I see is that you were jealous. Now that Travis has been hoodwinked into putting a cap on him, you can still be "competitive", seeing how you're the #2...


I was neither hoodwinked, nor bamboozled. Fact of the matter was that Crunch3r's app was getting way more credit than we intend the project to ever give out, plain and simple. I fixed the problem in what i thought was the most appropriate manner possible.

All of this will be a moot point anyways when we release the next version of the app in a week or two.


Yes, you were.
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Message 4947 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008, 0:25:20 UTC

You should be ashamed of yourself...


I'm not nor will I ever be for exposing something that needed exposing. As much as anybody in this Thread or the Thread I started took their shots at me just as many or more have expressed to me privately that I did the right thing ...
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Message 4948 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008, 0:39:08 UTC - in response to Message 4947.  

just as many or more have expressed to me privately that I did the right thing ...


I would venture to say that if they did, they are probably unaware that there was no requirement to disclose or distribute the application.

What you have done is help set a precedent in regards to the Anonymous Platform mechanism, in that projects would now have the right to reduce credits for any application running via app_info.xml to whatever they want. This creates disparity in the credit per task ratios, as 1 task for him is now not equivalent in credit as 1 task for you based on the amount of time it would take for each of you to complete the task.

I hope the prospect of getting the #1 spot here back was worth it...
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Message 4949 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008, 0:39:43 UTC - in response to Message 4947.  

I'm not nor will I ever be for exposing something that needed exposing.


There was nothing to expose. If anything, Crunch3r's work should have been lauded. Your complaining (about nothing valid) has done nothing except discourage people from working to optimize apps in the future, both here an at other projects. And everyone, including the projects themselves, will lose out because of it.

Well done.

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Message 4950 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008, 0:47:31 UTC

I hope the prospect of getting the #1 spot here back was worth it...


Believe it or not that had nothing to do with it, I had already started looking for other Projects to run as I approached the 5 Million Mark because I didn't want to do what I did at the Cosmology Project and process way more than I ever intended to.

I already tried a few Wu's at other Projects and will start moving some of my Box's to them soon but still leave some here to help out the Project.
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Message 4951 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008, 0:50:36 UTC

If anything, Crunch3r's work should have been lauded.


Apparently Crunch3r didn't think so or he wouldn't have kept creating a new host ID every day to keep what he was doing hidden so well.
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Message 4952 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008, 1:04:05 UTC - in response to Message 4951.  

If anything, Crunch3r's work should have been lauded.


Apparently Crunch3r didn't think so or he wouldn't have kept creating a new host ID every day to keep what he was doing hidden so well.


Why do you hide your computers?
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Message 4953 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008, 1:08:47 UTC - in response to Message 4950.  

I hope the prospect of getting the #1 spot here back was worth it...


Believe it or not that had nothing to do with it


Then what was the justification for going public rather than handling privately?
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Message 4954 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008, 1:11:31 UTC - in response to Message 4952.  

If anything, Crunch3r's work should have been lauded.


Apparently Crunch3r didn't think so or he wouldn't have kept creating a new host ID every day to keep what he was doing hidden so well.


Why do you hide your computers?


Because I choose to, always have since I joined the BOINC Projects & probably always will, that's Crunch3r's right too. But the difference between us is that I don't Create new host ID's every day to hide something I might be doing whether right or wrong like Crunch3r was ... Travis is free to look at my Hosts anytime he likes I'm sure and if theres any impropriety he's free to take action against me too ...
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