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Mr P Hucker
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Message 69466 - Posted: 27 Jan 2020, 10:55:41 UTC - in response to Message 69465.  

I have always and will always buy AMD.

That is certainly your prerogative as a consumer.

In my case, I will never buy an AMD gpu because the drivers have been, are, and always will be a nightmare to install.

Nvidia on the other hand . . . download, install and boom, up and running in minutes. And never have to struggle with them ever again.


Not sure what you mean by that, both drivers are easy to install. With AMD (and Nvidia last time I checked), there's one single download that sets up any graphics card. With AMD you just get this: https://www.amd.com/en/support Not sure why they ask what card you've got, as every single one ends up giving you the same download. Perhaps very old cards are different.

On the other hand, I have in the past changed a Nvidia card to an AMD card, and the Nvidia driver crashed the machine when it saw an AMD card, I had to remove it in Windows Safe mode using the registry! When I asked on a Nvidia forum, I was called an idiot for not uninstalling it before removing the Nvidia card. So how would I do this when the Nvidia card had failed?
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Message 69467 - Posted: 27 Jan 2020, 18:45:28 UTC - in response to Message 69466.  

May be fine in Windows, but a completely different experience in Linux. And based on the number of posts I have made helping others with AMD driver problems in Linux, it is a common and difficult problem.
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Message 69469 - Posted: 28 Jan 2020, 11:33:57 UTC - in response to Message 69467.  

May be fine in Windows, but a completely different experience in Linux. And based on the number of posts I have made helping others with AMD driver problems in Linux, it is a common and difficult problem.


ESPECIALLY since Linux deprecated the AMD drivers a few versions back to non crunching drivers as the default ones, in some versions of Linux even the Nvidia drivers are a pain to get loaded compared to at least one, Linux Mint, that asks you if you want to 3rd party drivers during the install process. Several just load the Mesa drivers and then make you hunt for how to install them thru the gui way, MXLinux was very hard to find them. I loaded half a dozen different versions of Linux on a machine I replaced just to see if there are easier ones to use than the one I do use for just crunching and didn't find one easier than Linux Mint for gpu drivers and just working pretty quickly. I always put Nvdia cards in Linux machines though because command line loading is picky and constantly changing file names, as the drivers get updated, means you have to look first.
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Message 69470 - Posted: 28 Jan 2020, 14:55:47 UTC - in response to Message 69469.  

May be fine in Windows, but a completely different experience in Linux. And based on the number of posts I have made helping others with AMD driver problems in Linux, it is a common and difficult problem.


ESPECIALLY since Linux deprecated the AMD drivers a few versions back to non crunching drivers as the default ones, in some versions of Linux even the Nvidia drivers are a pain to get loaded compared to at least one, Linux Mint, that asks you if you want to 3rd party drivers during the install process. Several just load the Mesa drivers and then make you hunt for how to install them thru the gui way, MXLinux was very hard to find them. I loaded half a dozen different versions of Linux on a machine I replaced just to see if there are easier ones to use than the one I do use for just crunching and didn't find one easier than Linux Mint for gpu drivers and just working pretty quickly. I always put Nvdia cards in Linux machines though because command line loading is picky and constantly changing file names, as the drivers get updated, means you have to look first.


I don't mean to be rude, but Linux sounds like a bit of a pain. Windows just works.
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Message 69471 - Posted: 28 Jan 2020, 16:27:07 UTC - in response to Message 69470.  

May be fine in Windows, but a completely different experience in Linux. And based on the number of posts I have made helping others with AMD driver problems in Linux, it is a common and difficult problem.


ESPECIALLY since Linux deprecated the AMD drivers a few versions back to non crunching drivers as the default ones, in some versions of Linux even the Nvidia drivers are a pain to get loaded compared to at least one, Linux Mint, that asks you if you want to 3rd party drivers during the install process. Several just load the Mesa drivers and then make you hunt for how to install them thru the gui way, MXLinux was very hard to find them. I loaded half a dozen different versions of Linux on a machine I replaced just to see if there are easier ones to use than the one I do use for just crunching and didn't find one easier than Linux Mint for gpu drivers and just working pretty quickly. I always put Nvdia cards in Linux machines though because command line loading is picky and constantly changing file names, as the drivers get updated, means you have to look first.


I don't mean to be rude, but Linux sounds like a bit of a pain. Windows just works.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. In my case, Windows was a pain in the ass to work with. Kept blowing up. Finally decided since I had to reinstall an OS again for the umpteenth time, why not just give Windows the old heave-ho and jump to Linux. All my other hosts had been running Linux for a year with no issues. So converted my sole Windows 10 experiment to Linux and never looked back. I don't miss Windows in any way at all. I can do everything I want to do in Linux, just don't need anything from Windows including its grief.

For installing Nvidia drivers, nothing could be simpler than adding the graphics-drivers ppa and choosing what version of the drivers you want to install and one reboot later to load the drivers you are up and running.
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Message 69472 - Posted: 28 Jan 2020, 16:33:30 UTC - in response to Message 69469.  

in some versions of Linux even the Nvidia drivers are a pain to get loaded compared to at least one, Linux Mint, that asks you if you want to 3rd party drivers during the install process.

Latest Ubuntu, 19.10 has the Nvidia 430 drivers in the install package. No questions asked, no hoops to jump through. The installer sees Nvidia hardware and installs the drivers for you, boom.Done.
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Message 69473 - Posted: 28 Jan 2020, 16:46:20 UTC - in response to Message 69471.  
Last modified: 28 Jan 2020, 16:48:06 UTC

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. In my case, Windows was a pain in the ass to work with. Kept blowing up. Finally decided since I had to reinstall an OS again for the umpteenth time, why not just give Windows the old heave-ho and jump to Linux. All my other hosts had been running Linux for a year with no issues. So converted my sole Windows 10 experiment to Linux and never looked back. I don't miss Windows in any way at all. I can do everything I want to do in Linux, just don't need anything from Windows including its grief.

For installing Nvidia drivers, nothing could be simpler than adding the graphics-drivers ppa and choosing what version of the drivers you want to install and one reboot later to load the drivers you are up and running.


I've never had a problem with Windows, and I've used Windows 3, 95, 98, NT4, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8, and 10. Only problems with anything crashing were always attributable to hardware, usually RAM. I just think we've moved on from having to mess around with command lines. In Windows, I install any graphics card (or anything else) and it usually just works out of the box, either with a built in driver or it gets one off the internet for me without me clicking a single button, if not, it still functions but not at optimal speed, so I just install the driver from the site. AMD provide a single Radeon driver that works on any card, with all the OpenCL stuff included.

I've certainly never had to reinstall Windows. In fact I used one single install from 1995 to 2010, upgrading the motherboard and all sorts else several times, upgrading to a newer version of Windows, no reinstall ever.
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Message 69474 - Posted: 28 Jan 2020, 23:50:09 UTC - in response to Message 69473.  

I guess you are lucky and I am unlucky with Windows 10. I never had any issues with Windows 7. Worked all the time, every time.

As far as my hardware is concerned, no issues with the hardware from the system that wouldn't boot Windows 10 or repair or recover it, to simply putting my Ubuntu 18.04 LTS bootable install USB stick in the computer and was up and running the Linux desktop in 10 minutes. That was after fighting Win 10 for several hours. Enough was enough. Goodbye Win 10.

And my opinion of Win 10 was just recently enforced when an ex-coworker asked me to update his Windows 7 computer I built for him to Windows 10 because of EOL declared on Win 7. 12 excruciating hours later I finally had a working Win 10 installation for him that saved his data.

I just don't want to have to work so hard to install a OS.
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Message 69475 - Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 10:52:00 UTC - in response to Message 69472.  

in some versions of Linux even the Nvidia drivers are a pain to get loaded compared to at least one, Linux Mint, that asks you if you want to 3rd party drivers during the install process.


Latest Ubuntu, 19.10 has the Nvidia 430 drivers in the install package. No questions asked, no hoops to jump through. The installer sees Nvidia hardware and installs the drivers for you, boom.Done.


I tried that too and it didn't like my Nvidia 760 that was in the machine, in Mint I start with 3.80 and then go to 3.84 and it crunches. It would probably work just fine with a 1060 or 1080Ti but those are already in use in other machines and the 760 was on the shelf, actually I have a total of 3 760's that I'm trying to make work but now the power supply could be bad as when I plug in the 2nd gpu the screen is just black.
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Message 69476 - Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 11:03:34 UTC - in response to Message 69473.  

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. In my case, Windows was a pain in the ass to work with. Kept blowing up. Finally decided since I had to reinstall an OS again for the umpteenth time, why not just give Windows the old heave-ho and jump to Linux. All my other hosts had been running Linux for a year with no issues. So converted my sole Windows 10 experiment to Linux and never looked back. I don't miss Windows in any way at all. I can do everything I want to do in Linux, just don't need anything from Windows including its grief.

For installing Nvidia drivers, nothing could be simpler than adding the graphics-drivers ppa and choosing what version of the drivers you want to install and one reboot later to load the drivers you are up and running.


I've never had a problem with Windows, and I've used Windows 3, 95, 98, NT4, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8, and 10. Only problems with anything crashing were always attributable to hardware, usually RAM. I just think we've moved on from having to mess around with command lines. In Windows, I install any graphics card (or anything else) and it usually just works out of the box, either with a built in driver or it gets one off the internet for me without me clicking a single button, if not, it still functions but not at optimal speed, so I just install the driver from the site. AMD provide a single Radeon driver that works on any card, with all the OpenCL stuff included.

I've certainly never had to reinstall Windows. In fact I used one single install from 1995 to 2010, upgrading the motherboard and all sorts else several times, upgrading to a newer version of Windows, no reinstall ever.


I have some older HP and Dell off lease machines that have some older hardware in them and when Win10 rolls out the updates they crash!! Win10 works great on my newer AMD Ryzien Threadripper cpu's but older hardware is problematic. The pc's are just crunchers for me so I don't care what OS is on them and once I put Linux on them they produce slightly more RAC and just crunch 24/7. I did put solid state drives in each of them so they would reboot faster when the updates do come out and that helped, not all the updates though as one even affected them! MS got that fixed before the next pc got auto updated and they are okay now. There are 4 left and each has 2 quadcore Xeon cpu's making for 16 cpu cores in each pc but running at about 2.3ghz each, I recently retired one because I got a 2nd Threadripper for Christmas, both have 12/24 core cpu's running at about 3.4ghz each.
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Message 69477 - Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 14:11:29 UTC - in response to Message 69472.  

Latest Ubuntu, 19.10 has the Nvidia 430 drivers in the install package. No questions asked, no hoops to jump through. The installer sees Nvidia hardware and installs the drivers for you, boom.Done.

What about AMD? I am putting together a new machine with an RX 570, and can do either Ubuntu 18.04.4 in a few days, or go with 19.10.
I figured I would stay with 18.04, since I think I have to install the drivers myself anyway, but is there any advantage to 19.10?
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Message 69478 - Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 15:13:52 UTC - in response to Message 69474.  

I guess you are lucky and I am unlucky with Windows 10. I never had any issues with Windows 7. Worked all the time, every time.

As far as my hardware is concerned, no issues with the hardware from the system that wouldn't boot Windows 10 or repair or recover it, to simply putting my Ubuntu 18.04 LTS bootable install USB stick in the computer and was up and running the Linux desktop in 10 minutes. That was after fighting Win 10 for several hours. Enough was enough. Goodbye Win 10.

And my opinion of Win 10 was just recently enforced when an ex-coworker asked me to update his Windows 7 computer I built for him to Windows 10 because of EOL declared on Win 7. 12 excruciating hours later I finally had a working Win 10 installation for him that saved his data.

I just don't want to have to work so hard to install a OS.


How odd. All my Windows installations upgraded for me. I just got a notice saying would you like free Windows 10, so I clicked yes and it happened. Hell they even upgrade pirated Windows for free.
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Message 69479 - Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 15:16:03 UTC - in response to Message 69476.  

I have some older HP and Dell off lease machines that have some older hardware in them and when Win10 rolls out the updates they crash!! Win10 works great on my newer AMD Ryzien Threadripper cpu's but older hardware is problematic. The pc's are just crunchers for me so I don't care what OS is on them and once I put Linux on them they produce slightly more RAC and just crunch 24/7. I did put solid state drives in each of them so they would reboot faster when the updates do come out and that helped, not all the updates though as one even affected them! MS got that fixed before the next pc got auto updated and they are okay now. There are 4 left and each has 2 quadcore Xeon cpu's making for 16 cpu cores in each pc but running at about 2.3ghz each, I recently retired one because I got a 2nd Threadripper for Christmas, both have 12/24 core cpu's running at about 3.4ghz each.


Oh god, HP. That company should have gone bankrupt long ago. Non standard badly designed everything. Don't even think about using their printers.

I've always avoided Linux as I see no point in learning a new OS that only makes sense to someone with a geeky mind. I don't have one of those minds.
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Message 69480 - Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 15:36:10 UTC - in response to Message 69479.  

I've always avoided Linux as I see no point in learning a new OS that only makes sense to someone with a geeky mind. I don't have one of those minds.

Both of them are awful. The Linux people try to take the mistakes of Windows and exaggerate them. But Linux is a lot faster for some purposes.
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Message 69481 - Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 16:02:47 UTC - in response to Message 69480.  

I've always avoided Linux as I see no point in learning a new OS that only makes sense to someone with a geeky mind. I don't have one of those minds.

Both of them are awful. The Linux people try to take the mistakes of Windows and exaggerate them. But Linux is a lot faster for some purposes.


You got that right. What I've never understood is why programmers are so clumsy. There shouldn't be mistakes. They seem to have the attitude that the end user is their testing facility.
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Message 69482 - Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 16:42:44 UTC - in response to Message 69477.  

Latest Ubuntu, 19.10 has the Nvidia 430 drivers in the install package. No questions asked, no hoops to jump through. The installer sees Nvidia hardware and installs the drivers for you, boom.Done.

What about AMD? I am putting together a new machine with an RX 570, and can do either Ubuntu 18.04.4 in a few days, or go with 19.10.
I figured I would stay with 18.04, since I think I have to install the drivers myself anyway, but is there any advantage to 19.10?

I would say yes. AMD is providing new drivers and the compatibility packages like Mesa, Vulkan, DXVK etc. are all dumping new updates fast and furious every day it seems. The latest kernels in 19.10 make use of all the new AMD updates. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux-54-radeon&num=1 I would say just read the news everyday at http://Phoronix.com to see how much activity is taking place constantly on AMD support.
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Message 69483 - Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 16:52:58 UTC - in response to Message 69478.  

How odd. All my Windows installations upgraded for me. I just got a notice saying would you like free Windows 10, so I clicked yes and it happened. Hell they even upgrade pirated Windows for free.

I reiterate my comment about you being exceedingly lucky and blessed by Microsoft.

That issue of pirated Windows7 was one of the issues I had to overcome. I had no clue that the Windows 7 installation was unlicensed. It said it was a genuine copy of Windows. I had the license key for Windows 7 and I thought from all the articles I read that upgrading to Win 10 with the Win 7 license key was a simple matter. Two thirds into the Win10 install, (2 hours later), I get an error message that the upgrade can't proceed and it needed to roll me back to Win 7. Back to square one except now Windows 7 said it was an unlicensed copy with a watermark in the bottom right of the screen. Fought it for another 8 hours wrangling Win 10 onto the machine. What a effing headache.
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Message 69484 - Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 17:31:39 UTC - in response to Message 69483.  
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How odd. All my Windows installations upgraded for me. I just got a notice saying would you like free Windows 10, so I clicked yes and it happened. Hell they even upgrade pirated Windows for free.

I reiterate my comment about you being exceedingly lucky and blessed by Microsoft.

That issue of pirated Windows7 was one of the issues I had to overcome. I had no clue that the Windows 7 installation was unlicensed. It said it was a genuine copy of Windows. I had the license key for Windows 7 and I thought from all the articles I read that upgrading to Win 10 with the Win 7 license key was a simple matter. Two thirds into the Win10 install, (2 hours later), I get an error message that the upgrade can't proceed and it needed to roll me back to Win 7. Back to square one except now Windows 7 said it was an unlicensed copy with a watermark in the bottom right of the screen. Fought it for another 8 hours wrangling Win 10 onto the machine. What a effing headache.


Strange, during the free upgrade period, it would upgrade anything, no matter what license you did or didn't have. Pssst..... KMSAuto :-)

The strange things is, I've been using Windows myself and as an IT Tech since it came out. I've never had much of a problem with any version on many thousands of machines. Maybe the odd driver or faulty hardware, but nothing I could blame Windows for.
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Message 69485 - Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 21:11:26 UTC - in response to Message 69484.  

How odd. All my Windows installations upgraded for me. I just got a notice saying would you like free Windows 10, so I clicked yes and it happened. Hell they even upgrade pirated Windows for free.

I reiterate my comment about you being exceedingly lucky and blessed by Microsoft.

That issue of pirated Windows7 was one of the issues I had to overcome. I had no clue that the Windows 7 installation was unlicensed. It said it was a genuine copy of Windows. I had the license key for Windows 7 and I thought from all the articles I read that upgrading to Win 10 with the Win 7 license key was a simple matter. Two thirds into the Win10 install, (2 hours later), I get an error message that the upgrade can't proceed and it needed to roll me back to Win 7. Back to square one except now Windows 7 said it was an unlicensed copy with a watermark in the bottom right of the screen. Fought it for another 8 hours wrangling Win 10 onto the machine. What a effing headache.


Strange, during the free upgrade period, it would upgrade anything, no matter what license you did or didn't have. Pssst..... KMSAuto :-)

The strange things is, I've been using Windows myself and as an IT Tech since it came out. I've never had much of a problem with any version on many thousands of machines. Maybe the odd driver or faulty hardware, but nothing I could blame Windows for.


Actually it didn't..not for everyone anyway. I had both things happen both the upgrade from a pirated version and it refusing to update from a licensed version on a commericial box!! In my case I just put another pirated version on and then upgraded to Win10 and it worked fine, as I said before most of my pc's are just crunchers so there are no vast amount of programs etc to reinstall, a/v, boinc, vnc and a backup program I use. In fact I can get it done in a little over an hour from scratch it I sit down and do just it, usually it takes longer as I do other things at the same time and don't look at the pc every second so often it's waiting for me to do the next step. As I said before I use solid state drives, 240gb, and things happen very quickly.

Lately I've been doing more Linux pc's as pirate versions of Windows don't always work forever, I just can't afford to spend the money to put Windows10 on 17 pc's!!! I've done some trial versions and buy online numbers but here in the US they often get cancelled eventually. My latest pc came from the store, I provided the parts and they put it together for me as I was home building something else, with Win10 Home and it crunches just fine. I did not buy Win10 seperately it was on there after they put it together, I'm not complaining.
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Message 69486 - Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 21:29:23 UTC - in response to Message 69485.  
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Actually it didn't..not for everyone anyway. I had both things happen both the upgrade from a pirated version and it refusing to update from a licensed version on a commericial box!! In my case I just put another pirated version on and then upgraded to Win10 and it worked fine, as I said before most of my pc's are just crunchers so there are no vast amount of programs etc to reinstall, a/v, boinc, vnc and a backup program I use. In fact I can get it done in a little over an hour from scratch it I sit down and do just it, usually it takes longer as I do other things at the same time and don't look at the pc every second so often it's waiting for me to do the next step. As I said before I use solid state drives, 240gb, and things happen very quickly.

Lately I've been doing more Linux pc's as pirate versions of Windows don't always work forever, I just can't afford to spend the money to put Windows10 on 17 pc's!!! I've done some trial versions and buy online numbers but here in the US they often get cancelled eventually. My latest pc came from the store, I provided the parts and they put it together for me as I was home building something else, with Win10 Home and it crunches just fine. I did not buy Win10 seperately it was on there after they put it together, I'm not complaining.


I think only 1 of 1000 PCs I upgraded to Windows 10 refused to do it, it would not do the automated internet based install. It worked fine when I downloaded a DVD image free from M$ and used that.

My crunchers tend to have old rotary drives (or rust spinners as some call them), because they're lying about anyway and I don't need fast disk speed for Boinc.

Pirate Windows has never failed me. I forget what I used to use for Windows 7, but KMSAuto works great for any Windows or Office. And it's not always to save money either, I used a pirate version of Cubase at work, because the stupid physical dongles you needed to use the proper license kept failing. We just bought the right number of licenses then put the pirate version on. Well probably somewhere near the right amount :-)

We're gonna get banned soon for mentioning piracy. I was thrown off windows10forums.com for saying "Piratebay".
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