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ProfileKeith Myers
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Message 70601 - Posted: 18 Feb 2021, 17:22:13 UTC
Last modified: 18 Feb 2021, 17:27:52 UTC

First have you tried purging the nvidia drivers to get rid of any previous driver attempts? Revert to nouveau drivers to start.

sudo apt-get remove --purge '^nvidia-.*'

Reboot the system

Remove any dpkg locks.

sudo rm -rf /var/lib/apt/lists/lock /var/cache/apt/archives/lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock

Reboot the system.

Clean the apt repositories

apt --fix-broken install

sudo apt clean all


Then do a apt update and upgrade to get the new 460 drivers.

sudo apt install nvidia-driver-460

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ProfileSiran d'Vel'nahr
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Message 70602 - Posted: 18 Feb 2021, 21:57:09 UTC - in response to Message 70601.  

Hi Keith,

First have you tried purging the nvidia drivers to get rid of any previous driver attempts? Revert to nouveau drivers to start.

Sorry, but I did not know about doing all this. I did not know that these things have to be done. I didn't have to do them when updating to v450 or any previous versions and had no problems then. I will do this tomorrow and let you know how things went. :)

I assume I have to use the driver manager to revert to the nouveau drivers, then do the things you mentioned? And yes, BOINC will be shut down and not restarted until I'm done. ;)

Have a great day! :)

Siran
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr XO - L L & P _\\//
USS Vre'kasht NCC-33187
Winders 10 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath
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ProfileKeith Myers
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Message 70603 - Posted: 18 Feb 2021, 22:01:38 UTC - in response to Message 70602.  

I remember you are on Mint with the reference to the Driver Manager. Don't know, never used Mint.

Linux is smart enough to know it has to provide the baseline Nouveau drivers when no proprietary AMD or Nvidia drivers are installed and loaded. Should all be automatic to fall back to the Nouveau drivers when uninstalling and purging alternate drivers. The Driver Manager shouldn't even be involved.
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Message 70604 - Posted: 18 Feb 2021, 23:38:09 UTC - in response to Message 70603.  

I remember you are on Mint with the reference to the Driver Manager. Don't know, never used Mint.

Linux is smart enough to know it has to provide the baseline Nouveau drivers when no proprietary AMD or Nvidia drivers are installed and loaded. Should all be automatic to fall back to the Nouveau drivers when uninstalling and purging alternate drivers. The Driver Manager shouldn't even be involved.


In Mint I just go to System Settings, Drivers and it comes up with a list of drivers that it knows about, ie if you are still on ver 18.3 it won't find the latest drivers unless you also have the Nvidia ppa repository added.
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Message 70605 - Posted: 18 Feb 2021, 23:46:15 UTC - in response to Message 70604.  

He should be fine since he is on Mint 20.1 or equivalent to Ubuntu Focal Fossa. That distro has the 460 drivers in the standard repo.
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ProfileSiran d'Vel'nahr
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Message 70606 - Posted: 19 Feb 2021, 13:50:25 UTC - in response to Message 70603.  

I remember you are on Mint with the reference to the Driver Manager. Don't know, never used Mint.

Linux is smart enough to know it has to provide the baseline Nouveau drivers when no proprietary AMD or Nvidia drivers are installed and loaded. Should all be automatic to fall back to the Nouveau drivers when uninstalling and purging alternate drivers. The Driver Manager shouldn't even be involved.

Hi Keith,

Doing this did not work. I get a notification that there is no hardware acceleration and to go into the Driver Manager. I get the same fraking thing with low resolution and when I go into the display settings app it is at "default: Laptop" or something about laptop and gives no selection for resolution change with a resolution of 1024 x 768.

This worked just fine; Nouveau drivers were automatic:
sudo apt-get remove --purge '^nvidia-.*'

This did not show that it was working; it went directly back to the prompt:
sudo rm -rf /var/lib/apt/lists/lock /var/cache/apt/archives/lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock

This only showed me the help message and --fix-broken was not in the list of options:
apt --fix-broken install

I don't remember what this did, whether showing doing something or going directly back to the prompt:
sudo apt clean all

This did show that it was working and I saw the same insanity checks as I mentioned in my post yesterday which was similar to the long copy/paste I put in that post:
sudo apt install nvidia-driver-460

I am at a loss as to why this PC will not take the v460 drivers. Why the heck would the Default: laptop be shown rather than my Acer monitor? I don't get it!

I'm hitting the Internet to see if this has happen to anyone else and see if there is a solution to this nerve racking problem. ;)

Thanks for your help Keith and have a great day! :)

Siran
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr XO - L L & P _\\//
USS Vre'kasht NCC-33187
Winders 10 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath
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Message 70607 - Posted: 19 Feb 2021, 13:54:37 UTC - in response to Message 70553.  
Last modified: 19 Feb 2021, 14:00:31 UTC

I have one more question: Will allowing more cores for the MT tasks and less MTs running be more efficient, or does it really matter?

I have spent some considerable time looking at that, using an app_config.xml to limit my machines to a single core, and then allowing them to run on all of them (or at least more than one).

It is a tricky answer. For CPU efficiency per se, single core is best, with an efficiency on my Ryzen 3000 series being around 99% on either Win10 or Ubuntu. But you of course get them done faster with multi-core. However, the CPU efficiency is less with multi-core, around 70 to 80%. And the curious thing is that the total CPU run time is less on multi-core. I would expect it to be more, since the efficiency is less. But that is the tricky part: multi-core ties up all the CPU threads, so that they are not available to other projects. You are really wasting CPU capability. But if MW is the only project you want to run, use multi-core. If you want to run other projects also, use single core.

EDIT: The better way to compare them would really be to run a machine for a long time on single core (all of them), and then compare the RAC to the same machine running multi-core on all the cores. It could turn out that the total output was still greater on single-core.
But that is a long test.
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ProfileKeith Myers
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Message 70608 - Posted: 19 Feb 2021, 16:13:54 UTC - in response to Message 70606.  

How are you connecting to the monitor? What type of cable are you using? Is it HDMI or DisplayPort cable?

I'm beginning to think your problem is with your monitor and how it communicates with the OS. The 460 drivers may have changed preferences for communications. Something like it defaults to HDMI 1.4 signaling and your monitor is too old to support that. Or your cable is too old and does not support the signaling the drivers are trying to use. Or the cable is damaged and not all the signals are making it to the monitor and back to the card.

It defaults to lowest resolution like a laptop because of this. Solution is to either upgrade your monitor, change to a different cable type if the monitor supports both HDMI and DP. Change to a better cable. Or do nothing and stay with the 450 drivers until you find a way to force the correct communication protocols to properly handshake to your monitor.

Normally the monitor broadcasts its EDID information to the card to tell the card what resolutions the monitor can accept and display properly. This is not happening in your situation.
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ProfileSiran d'Vel'nahr
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Message 70609 - Posted: 19 Feb 2021, 17:45:36 UTC - in response to Message 70608.  

How are you connecting to the monitor? What type of cable are you using? Is it HDMI or DisplayPort cable?

I'm beginning to think your problem is with your monitor and how it communicates with the OS. The 460 drivers may have changed preferences for communications. Something like it defaults to HDMI 1.4 signaling and your monitor is too old to support that. Or your cable is too old and does not support the signaling the drivers are trying to use. Or the cable is damaged and not all the signals are making it to the monitor and back to the card.

It defaults to lowest resolution like a laptop because of this. Solution is to either upgrade your monitor, change to a different cable type if the monitor supports both HDMI and DP. Change to a better cable. Or do nothing and stay with the 450 drivers until you find a way to force the correct communication protocols to properly handshake to your monitor.

Normally the monitor broadcasts its EDID information to the card to tell the card what resolutions the monitor can accept and display properly. This is not happening in your situation.

Hi Keith,

I have an Acer 27" 1920 x 1080 Full HD/NVI G-Sync monitor. I've only had it for about a year and 1/2. I just dug out the HDMI cable from the box in the basement and will shut down and swap out the DP cable for the HDMI to see if that works.

From what I understand, DP is superseding HDMI which is why I installed the DP cable. Isn't that why modern video cards have more DP connectors than HDMI?

Anyway, I'll get back to you on what I find.

Have a great day! :)

Siran
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr XO - L L & P _\\//
USS Vre'kasht NCC-33187
Winders 10 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath
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ProfileSiran d'Vel'nahr
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Message 70610 - Posted: 19 Feb 2021, 17:50:58 UTC - in response to Message 70607.  

I have one more question: Will allowing more cores for the MT tasks and less MTs running be more efficient, or does it really matter?

I have spent some considerable time looking at that, using an app_config.xml to limit my machines to a single core, and then allowing them to run on all of them (or at least more than one).

It is a tricky answer. For CPU efficiency per se, single core is best, with an efficiency on my Ryzen 3000 series being around 99% on either Win10 or Ubuntu. But you of course get them done faster with multi-core. However, the CPU efficiency is less with multi-core, around 70 to 80%. And the curious thing is that the total CPU run time is less on multi-core. I would expect it to be more, since the efficiency is less. But that is the tricky part: multi-core ties up all the CPU threads, so that they are not available to other projects. You are really wasting CPU capability. But if MW is the only project you want to run, use multi-core. If you want to run other projects also, use single core.

EDIT: The better way to compare them would really be to run a machine for a long time on single core (all of them), and then compare the RAC to the same machine running multi-core on all the cores. It could turn out that the total output was still greater on single-core.
But that is a long test.

Hi Jim,

My current RAC is slightly higher than it was before we had that outage a few weeks ago. It took less time to get there this time than it took to get there before the outage. So my app_config.xml has done a bit of good, the way I have it set up.

Have a great day! :)

Siran
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr XO - L L & P _\\//
USS Vre'kasht NCC-33187
Winders 10 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath
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ProfileKeith Myers
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Message 70611 - Posted: 19 Feb 2021, 17:56:27 UTC

Both HDMI and DP have updated their comms protocols recently and the 460 drivers may be using the latest.

At least try a different cable.
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Message 70612 - Posted: 19 Feb 2021, 18:56:04 UTC - in response to Message 70610.  
Last modified: 19 Feb 2021, 18:58:28 UTC

My current RAC is slightly higher than it was before we had that outage a few weeks ago. It took less time to get there this time than it took to get there before the outage. So my app_config.xml has done a bit of good, the way I have it set up.

Thanks. That is the way I would like to run it anyway.

I am still puzzling a bit over Windows 10 vs. Linux. I think Win10 does a little better with all cores running on multi-core than Linux does on all cores.
I am not so sure on single cores; they are close. I want to use my Linux machines in that case. It is probably not worth investigating further.
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ProfileSiran d'Vel'nahr
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Message 70613 - Posted: 19 Feb 2021, 19:13:24 UTC - in response to Message 70611.  

Both HDMI and DP have updated their comms protocols recently and the 460 drivers may be using the latest.

At least try a different cable.

Hi Keith,

That's a no go. I tried the HDMI cable that came with this monitor and could not get a signal to the monitor. I got a known working HDMI cable from my old dead monitor and the same thing; no signal to the monitor. I was reading in the manual about hooking up the data cables and it mentioned hooking up the HDMI "and/or" the DP cable to the monitor and the same to the PC. I tried both cables and got to the desktop background and had to work at getting the icons, but no task bar. I'm thinking now that the "and/or" was in reference to running 2 monitors even though the manual never mentioned anything about more than one. :-\

So, I guess I'm stuck with v450 NVIDIA drivers for the time being. Oh well...

Thanks for the help Keith and have a great day! :)

Siran
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr XO - L L & P _\\//
USS Vre'kasht NCC-33187
Winders 10 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath
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ProfileSiran d'Vel'nahr
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Message 70614 - Posted: 19 Feb 2021, 19:20:04 UTC - in response to Message 70612.  

My current RAC is slightly higher than it was before we had that outage a few weeks ago. It took less time to get there this time than it took to get there before the outage. So my app_config.xml has done a bit of good, the way I have it set up.

Thanks. That is the way I would like to run it anyway.

I am still puzzling a bit over Windows 10 vs. Linux. I think Win10 does a little better with all cores running on multi-core than Linux does on all cores.
I am not so sure on single cores; they are close. I want to use my Linux machines in that case. It is probably not worth investigating further.

Hi Jim,

My laptop is the only PC running on Winders and it's Win 7 Pro, it will not run Winders 10. This PC does have Winders 10 installed on a separate M.2 SSD, but is only for gaming and I haven't been gaming for over a month now. Currently I'm running Linux Mint exclusively for now.

Have a great day! :)

Siran
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr XO - L L & P _\\//
USS Vre'kasht NCC-33187
Winders 10 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath
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ProfileKeith Myers
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Message 70615 - Posted: 19 Feb 2021, 19:37:38 UTC - in response to Message 70613.  
Last modified: 19 Feb 2021, 19:38:18 UTC

Did you switch the inputs on the monitor? Some monitors don't automatically detect signal changes to a different port and switch for you. You have to use the monitor's menu to select the port that you have connected. I have to do that on one of my older monitors.

I would not have ruled out cable, card or monitor problems yet.
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Message 70616 - Posted: 19 Feb 2021, 19:48:36 UTC - in response to Message 70614.  

My laptop is the only PC running on Winders and it's Win 7 Pro, it will not run Winders 10. This PC does have Winders 10 installed on a separate M.2 SSD, but is only for gaming and I haven't been gaming for over a month now. Currently I'm running Linux Mint exclusively for now.

I used to assume that Windows 7 did the same as Windows 10. But I found otherwise on at least one project, MLC, on their GPU work units strangely enough. Win10 had a big advantage.
And I suspect Win 10 might have some advantage here on the nBody CPU work also. So I upgraded to Win 10, a bit reluctantly, and am using it fine now.
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Message 70617 - Posted: 19 Feb 2021, 20:10:00 UTC - in response to Message 70615.  

Did you switch the inputs on the monitor? Some monitors don't automatically detect signal changes to a different port and switch for you. You have to use the monitor's menu to select the port that you have connected. I have to do that on one of my older monitors.

I would not have ruled out cable, card or monitor problems yet.

Hi Keith,

Holy switchboard Batman! I didn't even think about that. The manual gives very, very little information and none about the menu. I checked out my menu and there is a selector for input. I'll run back down and get a cable...

Have a great day! :)

Siran
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr XO - L L & P _\\//
USS Vre'kasht NCC-33187
Winders 10 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath
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ProfileKeith Myers
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Message 70618 - Posted: 19 Feb 2021, 20:54:13 UTC

I just thought of something that nipped me in the butt a month ago. All of a sudden my display was huge, like in VGA mode. Thought the drivers may have glitched so just thought a reboot would fix things.

It didn't. Still had a huge display.

Thought what was happening at the time the display switched to huge. Cat was standing on the keyboard and pawing at the screen trying to grab my attention away from the computer to him as he does often.

Checked keyboard shortcuts menu and !Voila! saw Turn Zoom On or Off - Alt-Super-8 keystroke

Did the Alt-Super-8 keystroke combo and !Voila!, screen back to normal. Then to prevent anymore inadvertent kitty faux-paws, disabled that key combo in the keyboard shortcuts.

So, the display can get stuck in Zoom mode and will survive a reboot just to let you know.

Might check that at least once when you boot into the too large VGA mode display.
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Message 70619 - Posted: 19 Feb 2021, 21:34:21 UTC - in response to Message 70618.  
Last modified: 19 Feb 2021, 21:57:35 UTC

Hi Keith,

I found something in a forum where a user had the same problem with v460 that I am. He's running the same version of Mint v20.1 that I am. His solution was to use:
sudo apt remove xserver-xorg-video-fbdev

He got v460 to install properly, but is unsure if what he did might have any other long or short term affects. What do you think?

I have no clue about Alt-Super-8 keystroke is. I don't zoom in and out on my PC.

[edit1]I haven't done the cable swap yet. At my age going up and down the stairs to the basement wears me out. I'll work on it tomorrow.[/edit1]

[edit2]Upon further searches on this problem I found where it is said that users running on 5.4 kernel seem to be having this problem; that's what I'm running. One thing that someone said is this:
The source of the problem possibly may be related more to the newer versions of the X.Org X Display Server.
This would more or less confirm that command I mentioned above. What do you think?[/edit2]

Have a great day! :)

Siran
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr XO - L L & P _\\//
USS Vre'kasht NCC-33187
Winders 10 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath
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ProfileKeith Myers
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Message 70620 - Posted: 19 Feb 2021, 22:06:14 UTC - in response to Message 70619.  

Yes, I would give that a try. I Googled instances where the X. Server fell back to VESA resolutions through the fbdev driver.

You can always add it back in if things complain.

Or completely reinstall the xserver

sudo apt-get install --reinstall xserver-xorg


Or maybe just do a
sudo ubuntu-drivers autoinstall

to get back to a square one.
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