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Brian Silvers

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Message 9067 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 7:13:35 UTC - in response to Message 9064.  
Last modified: 25 Jan 2009, 7:14:55 UTC

according to this site: http://boincstats.com/stats/project_cpcs.php

Milkyway is still giving about twice as much credit as the average project.


The project just had a phase where results were crashing on certain platforms, while systems like my AMD 3700+ were hitting the 108 cr/hr limit. The figures are skewed one way or the other. Also, this is not a stable project. If one wants to do CPP, then there should be CPP only between the same levels of stability.

I personally believe, as I've stated for a long time, that CPP is a pipe dream now. It would've been a good concept early on, but there are far too many complexities now to address it. The best thing to do is to completely dissolve the comparisons between projects and let each project come up with their own credit scoring. No more "cobblestones", but perhaps a "betelgeuse" for here, and an "albert" for Einstein... Competition could continue cross-project by simply going for individual rankings within the multiple projects. Some external entity could then attempt to wrestle with the idea of a shared composite index scoring system.
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ProfileDan T. Morris
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Message 9068 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 7:18:39 UTC - in response to Message 9064.  

according to this site: http://boincstats.com/stats/project_cpcs.php

Milkyway is still giving about twice as much credit as the average project.



And as it should be... We do more work here changing our applications each week as needed when Travis changes the version app. code, just to keep our machines full of work.

DD,
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ProfileTravis
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Message 9109 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 18:20:07 UTC - in response to Message 9068.  

according to this site: http://boincstats.com/stats/project_cpcs.php

Milkyway is still giving about twice as much credit as the average project.



And as it should be... We do more work here changing our applications each week as needed when Travis changes the version app. code, just to keep our machines full of work.

DD,


The app code will be changing somewhat frequently until we go beta. If you don't like having to manually update it, you could just use the stock application which BOINC will update for you.
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Chris S
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Message 9111 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 18:37:21 UTC
Last modified: 25 Jan 2009, 18:38:59 UTC

@Everyone - I think we still tend to forget that this project is currently in the Alpha stage. Therefore the recent hiccups we have had in various areas are not to be unexpected. Perhaps a little more forbearance and tolerance would be appropriate.

@Travis - Any date for transition to Beta?
Don't drink water, that's the stuff that rusts pipes
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Message 9127 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 20:18:05 UTC - in response to Message 9111.  

@Travis - Any date for transition to Beta?


Debugging code is rather nondeterministic, so I really can't say. For a transition to beta there's a few things we'll need:

1. a rather stable bug-free application -- which we is something we're getting close to. The recent wave of updates have cleared up quite a bit of the bad results being turned in, but there are still a few issues we're trying to fix.

2. automatic error checking -- this is dependent on #1. If our stock code is returning bad results, that makes it harder to verify the results from other sources. Once we get our application more stable and bug free, then we can get automatic error checking working correctly.

3. a server for test applications -- this is more of a money issue. Right now we're nearing the end of the grant that's currently been supporting milkyway, so we're a little low on funds. We have put in a few grant applications to NSF, so if any of these are accepted then we'll have more money for adding hardware.

4. more test hardware -- again a money issue. We need a machine or machines that we can put different verisons of osx/linux/windows on so we can do more in-house testing before releasing applications to the wild. Again this probably wont happen until the next round of funding, which probably wont be until this coming fall.

So i'd have to say that the ETA for going beta would be sometime this fall. However, after we get last of the bugs fixed in the application and automatic error checking done, I'd say things will be a lot more stable around here.
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Chris S
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Message 9134 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 20:58:19 UTC

Thanks for the heads up there. I guess if you have the patience to go along with it until the Autumn, so can we. :-)
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Message 9135 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 21:03:18 UTC - in response to Message 9134.  

Thanks for the heads up there. I guess if you have the patience to go along with it until the Autumn, so can we. :-)


We've survived this far, I think we can make it :D

If this last application update does what I think it should, the application should be stable for awhile and i'll be able to work on the automatic error checking, which will probably make a few people who don't like frequent updates a bit happier.
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Message 9136 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 21:06:55 UTC - in response to Message 9135.  
Last modified: 25 Jan 2009, 21:18:44 UTC

Thanks for the heads up there. I guess if you have the patience to go along with it until the Autumn, so can we. :-)


We've survived this far, I think we can make it :D

If this last application update does what I think it should, the application should be stable for awhile and i'll be able to work on the automatic error checking, which will probably make a few people who don't like frequent updates a bit happier.


And the credit tittles are for...:)
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John Clark

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Message 9141 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 21:14:08 UTC

Travis

When the auto-error checking is good, and proves the various OS clients (including the Win stock one) work seamlessly and correctly. I assume the good client code will be made available to those with the skills to optimise it? If so, and you run and prove it OK, then we punters can run it as well.

Looking forwards to sometime having another blazing fast client.
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Brian Silvers

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Message 9142 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 21:16:14 UTC - in response to Message 9135.  

Thanks for the heads up there. I guess if you have the patience to go along with it until the Autumn, so can we. :-)


We've survived this far, I think we can make it :D

If this last application update does what I think it should, the application should be stable for awhile and i'll be able to work on the automatic error checking, which will probably make a few people who don't like frequent updates a bit happier.


Hopefully...

In regards to what you said in the other thread about the inter-project parity, I'm not opposed to the concept of it, but just how it is being attempted. The charts at both BOINC Combined Statistics and BOINCstats are skewed because the CPCS value in the stat exports does not decay. If my host were to not turn in any results for a month, the CPCS would be at the same higher level than after a credit reduction. The people who like to point out how much higher a particular project is than others will come by and say something about how the charts "still show" that credit is "too high", demand a reduction, then either you (the project) complies and pisses off people who have already noticed that the REAL value for their system(s) that is not based off of the inaccurate chart is already below other projects...or you piss off those people who are demanding for it to be lowered...

Given all that, that's why I personally feel that the standard "cobblestone" scoring should be discontinued. Freeze the stats as they are and let each project have its' own credit scoring unit that operates independently of other projects. The scoring unit would have no direct comparison with other projects' scoring units. If some external entity, like Formula BOINC (I think) wants to develop an exchange rate system, then that's fine and dandy, but all griping and complaining would go to them and not to BOINC or to the projects if participants felt like the exchange rate was "unfair". This structure would remove most, if not all, of the burden of the credit system from you (projects) since there would no longer be a "need" to concern yourself with the exchange rate process.
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Message 9143 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 21:24:33 UTC - in response to Message 9142.  
Last modified: 25 Jan 2009, 21:31:21 UTC



Sorry... it's like the sound of old refrigerator... All people heard it but don't gave any attemption...



:)
Logan.

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Message 9146 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 21:37:51 UTC - in response to Message 9136.  

And the credit tittles are for...:)

Credit titties? Do I get more with an optimized app?
me@rescam.org
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Beau

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Message 9148 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 21:58:03 UTC - in response to Message 9146.  

And the credit tittles are for...:)

Credit titties? Do I get more with an optimized app?



Do they come in pairs?
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Message 9149 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 22:07:31 UTC - in response to Message 9148.  

And the credit tittles are for...:)

Credit titties? Do I get more with an optimized app?

Do they come in pairs?

If you have a dual core machine. You get 2 pairs for a quad. If you're using a single hyper-threaded core it can look a bit weird.
me@rescam.org
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Beau

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Message 9150 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 22:13:05 UTC - in response to Message 9149.  

And the credit tittles are for...:)

Credit titties? Do I get more with an optimized app?

Do they come in pairs?

If you have a dual core machine. You get 2 pairs for a quad. If you're using a single hyper-threaded core it can look a bit weird.



"2 pairs for a quad", Is that kind of like 2 pairs for a dollar?

:-)
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Message 9151 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 22:19:12 UTC - in response to Message 9149.  

And the credit tittles are for...:)

Credit titties? Do I get more with an optimized app?

Do they come in pairs?

If you have a dual core machine. You get 2 pairs for a quad. If you're using a single hyper-threaded core it can look a bit weird.

Since we are speaking scientifically, that would be a core hermaphrodite duo.

Mac of course.


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Message 9152 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 22:23:12 UTC - in response to Message 9136.  

*No messages intended to annoy or antagonize other people, or to hijack a thread.
*No messages that are deliberately hostile or insulting.

I just wanted to post the 'rules' for these forums. Some of us have gone way past the point of civility. One of my favorite cliche's is 'If you dont like the show, don't let the door hit you on the way out'. What I have been reading is, the credit whores are angry because they aren't going to be able to rape the project like they want to any more so they are trying to 'burn down the house' for the rest of us. I have seen people who have been in this project for 5 months with 5 million credits! Or someone we all know that has been here since 08/08 with 1.2 million. Somehow this doesn't seem 'kosher' in any way.
IMHO their 'whinning' falls on deft ears here. I have been running the stock app since day one and have had no complaints. Credit awards have been right in line with most of the others top projects as far as my machines are concerned. Once a stable opti app is available for general use I will use it.

I feel that each WU should have a fair credit value based upon the work processed no matter how long it takes to process. If your machines are fastert than mine you will get more credit than me. But, I also feel that any app used to speed up the process should be made available to all of us or it cant be used for an unfair advantage. Just like someone who cuts inline ahead of you should be denied. It simply a matter of courtesy. Everyone in a project should work for the good of the project, not for just one person. Just my $0.02



We've survived this far, I think we can make it :D

If this last application update does what I think it should, the application should be stable for awhile and i'll be able to work on the automatic error checking, which will probably make a few people who don't like frequent updates a bit happier.





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Message 9154 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 22:33:37 UTC

I've just looked at the top 20 earners here at MW all with over 5 million credits, and not one of them is in Team England.

Damn


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Beau

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Message 9155 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 22:40:03 UTC - in response to Message 9152.  

*No messages intended to annoy or antagonize other people, or to hijack a thread.
*No messages that are deliberately hostile or insulting.

I just wanted to post the 'rules' for these forums. Some of us have gone way past the point of civility. One of my favorite cliche's is 'If you dont like the show, don't let the door hit you on the way out'. What I have been reading is, the credit whores are angry because they aren't going to be able to rape the project like they want to any more so they are trying to 'burn down the house' for the rest of us. I have seen people who have been in this project for 5 months with 5 million credits! Or someone we all know that has been here since 08/08 with 1.2 million. Somehow this doesn't seem 'kosher' in any way.
IMHO their 'whinning' falls on deft ears here. I have been running the stock app since day one and have had no complaints. Credit awards have been right in line with most of the others top projects as far as my machines are concerned. Once a stable opti app is available for general use I will use it.

I feel that each WU should have a fair credit value based upon the work processed no matter how long it takes to process. If your machines are fastert than mine you will get more credit than me. But, I also feel that any app used to speed up the process should be made available to all of us or it cant be used for an unfair advantage. Just like someone who cuts inline ahead of you should be denied. It simply a matter of courtesy. Everyone in a project should work for the good of the project, not for just one person. Just my $0.02



We've survived this far, I think we can make it :D

If this last application update does what I think it should, the application should be stable for awhile and i'll be able to work on the automatic error checking, which will probably make a few people who don't like frequent updates a bit happier.





I take offense to this posts usage of the terms "whore" and "rape". I understand what you are trying to say; but I dont think those terms are needed and could have been worded better, especially where you start off your post listing the "rules".
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Message 9156 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 22:56:54 UTC - in response to Message 9068.  

according to this site: http://boincstats.com/stats/project_cpcs.php

Milkyway is still giving about twice as much credit as the average project.



And as it should be... We do more work here changing our applications each week as needed when Travis changes the version app. code, just to keep our machines full of work.

DD,


Each WEEK? Not sure what you have been watching but recently it has been daily, and yesterday for example was what 3 revisions ??

.
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