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Stevea

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Message 9004 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 1:44:38 UTC - in response to Message 9000.  

Could you provide a link to those Windows apps? A direct ling to the download site, not to the thread.


There are no longer any approved windows SEEx apps, only linux, and mac.
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James Nunley

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Message 9005 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 1:48:46 UTC - in response to Message 8989.  

Here are some novel ideas...You the project want my computing power..
I want the max credits that I can get for my donated time and money to you for credits that don't cost you anything and are worthless for anything but bragging rights....Some give the project optimized applications and help with the code.


Now here is our reward for making more science information being done sooner...

1. You lower my credits to keep me and others in line with othere projects that have nothing in common with your project.

2. You cut my credits in half in the name of credit comparison because DA gets pissed.

3. You change the application code on me 4 times in one week while I am out of town and have no way to change my computers over to use the new application and they run for 3 days idle.

4. When you get help with the new optimized applications, you reward us by still cutting our credits or changing the application again.


I don't know about you folks but this looks kind of like how some forms of government treats its folks.. Not good.



Now I must ask this one question... What else but high credits and Science would make me want to stay on this project?

DD,




What he said...................
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Message 9006 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 1:50:01 UTC - in response to Message 9004.  

Could you provide a link to those Windows apps? A direct ling to the download site, not to the thread.


There are no longer any approved windows SEEx apps, only linux, and mac.


that's what I thought.


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Message 9007 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 1:52:45 UTC - in response to Message 9003.  

fit your ad with all its links into a 250 char. sig and I'll be impressed :P

Easily done by resizing the images. I hope you have a magnifier.

So what compression ratio are you using? Will a milk bottle do?


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Message 9009 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 1:57:44 UTC - in response to Message 9002.  

In this time, I think 3D boys could help you with that... I can't say any more...:) Ask to him...

My German's not so good, but I've read every thread in Planet 3Dnow and no acceptable op app for mw to be seen :(




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Message 9010 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 1:59:42 UTC - in response to Message 9009.  
Last modified: 25 Jan 2009, 2:01:19 UTC

In this time, I think 3D boys could help you with that... I can't say any more...:) Ask to him...

My German's not so good, but I've read every thread in Planet 3Dnow and no acceptable op app for mw to be seen :(



You're wrong... Ask him...
Logan.

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Message 9011 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 2:00:01 UTC - in response to Message 8988.  

Yes, I have a complaint. What am I going to do with zslip now?

PS. I'm not complaining, but I've got 5 links and 5 images in my sig. Can anyone beat that? (gimme your optimized appz and I'll share my sig :P )

Yes, my ad beats your sig in both images and links. :P

It would be nice for Travis to settle on a stock app version so the optimizers know which app to base their code on.


The project is still in alpha so you can expect code updates to be somewhat frequent.
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Message 9012 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 2:02:22 UTC - in response to Message 9004.  

Could you provide a link to those Windows apps? A direct ling to the download site, not to the thread.


There are no longer any approved windows SEEx apps, only linux, and mac.


No one has posted an optimized windows application for me to approve. I can't do anything in this matter -- it's up to the people who compile the windows apps and make them available. If they post an optimized application on one of our forums I'd be more than happy to verify it and sticky it for everyone.
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Message 9013 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 2:02:25 UTC - in response to Message 9004.  

Could you provide a link to those Windows apps? A direct ling to the download site, not to the thread.


There are no longer any approved windows SEEx apps, only linux, and mac.


No one has posted an optimized windows application for me to approve. I can't do anything in this matter -- it's up to the people who compile the windows apps and make them available. If they post an optimized application on one of our forums I'd be more than happy to verify it and sticky it for everyone.
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Message 9014 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 2:03:29 UTC - in response to Message 8968.  
Last modified: 25 Jan 2009, 2:04:16 UTC

Come on Logan, reducing the credit to a half just puts the stock in line with seti AK V8 - which is still too much for CPP.

The optimized/recompiled apps still get more.



Comparison before adjustment : (Windows Vista q6600)

Seti AK V8 : Average. 3660 sec. = 43,76 credits

MW stock app 0.13 : Average. 3550 sec. = 39,85 credits

Assuming my calculator is OK, they both gave almost the same credits per sec.

on my rig. So where was the problem ???

Regards

Kurt


Quite a difference looking on older rigs.

My long term observation:

this host did 1100 with seti optimized (AK-V8) - 2000 with MW stock

this host did ~500 with seti optimized (AK-V8) - 850 with MW stock

this host did ~700 with seti optimized (2.4) - 1050 with MW stock

(Numbers are from last week - those run recompiled now)


Thanks, this is the kind of information I'm looking for. If the milkyway stock is generating less than the SETI stock i'll up it a bit.
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C

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Message 9016 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 2:12:19 UTC

Travis:
The v14 didn't improve the Intel Mac OS X apps by anything. Still taking roughly 3322/3417 cpusec on my MBP C2D. This equates to a maximum theoretical possible of 561 credits per core per day, or 1122 credits total on MW.

Using the V8 optimization on SETI (which has been around for a long time), this same machine has a theoretical possible of 1205 per core per day, or 2410 credits per day total on SETI. My current RAC there is 1630, but then, this is my main computer for work and 8 hours per day, 5 days per week, it has major use.

At the speed that v14 gives me on MW, with the 41.09/39.84 credits per WU, I'm basically even with SETI. Now that you've cut the credits in half, you're forcing me to put MW into the "run only when SETI is down longer than 3 days" category.

So long - I hope you check my math and see what you've accomplished.

C
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Message 9022 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 2:23:05 UTC - in response to Message 9012.  
Last modified: 25 Jan 2009, 2:26:06 UTC

[/quote]

No one has posted an optimized windows application for me to approve. I can't do anything in this matter -- it's up to the people who compile the windows apps and make them available. If they post an optimized application on one of our forums I'd be more than happy to verify it and sticky it for everyone.

You guys do all the work for us, we'll just kick back and analize what you've done for us and cut your credits in half for all your great efforts.

I think you may find the numer of participants in your project cut in half as well.

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Message 9026 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 2:31:03 UTC



So just entering this conversation.

Am I to understand Travis, that now you will be going back to fixed credit WU's? I would hope so.
You stated that the speed limit would be removed, I can only assume with this comment that you will be going back to fixed credit. Since the inception of the speed limit was due to the high credits.. Or are we to assume that you are just going to cut credit by half, and this would also affect the stupid speed limit idea that you came up with.

So if a q6600 is currently doing approx 40 credit per WU and taking 40-45 minutes to process 1 WU.
You are going to cut this by HALF!??
(While projects like ABC, Prime have 64 bit apps that grant twice that - current stock app! ) I have a couple boxes on ABC that I will not put on this project due to the speed limit, they get 12-14K a day on ABC and Prime, here they would be limited to 10K.

So, cutting by half you would get approx 20 credit per WU or approx 25 per hour Correct? So, 20 credit per WU fixed credit system. Not good enough.

Lets see.
ABOUT 80% of the projects out there do better than this.
I have been crunching Poem, and it gives me near 40 an hour - just about what this project is currently doing and you want to cut it by half?

Travis, Are you NUTS?

You have a 8 WU per core cache, so if your server burps we run out of work, we can live with that with a better paying project. Lower the credit, and you need to do some other fixings.. like increase the cache to about 3x what it currently is. Extend the deadlines about 3 more days. AND QUIT TESTING on the production side!

Freaking halo heads!








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ProfileTravis
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Message 9027 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 2:31:08 UTC - in response to Message 9022.  
Last modified: 25 Jan 2009, 2:33:41 UTC

No one has posted an optimized windows application for me to approve. I can't do anything in this matter -- it's up to the people who compile the windows apps and make them available. If they post an optimized application on one of our forums I'd be more than happy to verify it and sticky it for everyone.

You guys do all the work for us, we'll just kick back and analize what you've done for us and cut your credits in half for all your great efforts.

I think you may find the numer of participants in your project cut in half as well.


I personally cannot make optimized windows applications because I don't have a windows machine nor a compiler that will do it. I have an OSX machine so I do my best to keep versions for that as optimized as possible.

The fact of the matter is we don't have hardware/compilers for everything out there, so we can't make a bunch of optimized applications for you guys. Thankfully a bunch of our users are generous enough with their time to make optimized applications available for you to use. I don't have any problem putting our seal of approval on them for the rest of you to use. I'm not quite sure what else you want me to do here.

Again, BOINC as a whole is a community, and if any project is generating significantly more credit for the same amount of work than the rest of them (which I think many people would agree the stock milkyway app was doing), this isn't working towards the grander scheme of BOINC at the moment, nor are we being fair to the other projects out there.

Also, arguments that we're just trying to keep Dave Anderson happy are probably directed at the wrong person, because he's on my PhD thesis committee :P
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Message 9029 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 2:42:00 UTC - in response to Message 9027.  

No one has posted an optimized windows application for me to approve. I can't do anything in this matter -- it's up to the people who compile the windows apps and make them available. If they post an optimized application on one of our forums I'd be more than happy to verify it and sticky it for everyone.

You guys do all the work for us, we'll just kick back and analize what you've done for us and cut your credits in half for all your great efforts.

I think you may find the numer of participants in your project cut in half as well.


I personally cannot make optimized windows applications because I don't have a windows machine nor a compiler that will do it. I have an OSX machine so I do my best to keep versions for that as optimized as possible.

The fact of the matter is we don't have hardware/compilers for everything out there, so we can't make a bunch of optimized applications for you guys. Thankfully a bunch of our users are generous enough with their time to make optimized applications available for you to use. I don't have any problem putting our seal of approval on them for the rest of you to use. I'm not quite sure what else you want me to do here.

Again, BOINC as a whole is a community, and if any project is generating significantly more credit for the same amount of work than the rest of them (which I think many people would agree the stock milkyway app was doing), this isn't working towards the grander scheme of BOINC at the moment, nor are we being fair to the other projects out there.

Also, arguments that we're just trying to keep Dave Anderson happy are probably directed at the wrong person, because he's on my PhD thesis committee :P


Your concept is wrong... the thing is work x credits... As easy to that... more work done, more credits... In less time? what about? it's more work...

Your maths theacher don´t do well the work as I see...
Logan.

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Message 9030 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 2:42:16 UTC - in response to Message 9026.  

AND QUIT TESTING on the production side!



That's what the people who came up with the last bunch of opti apps got ripped for not testing. Yet as I mentioned before travis did not test any of the versions before releasing .08-.14 and they kept messing computers up for a couple versions.
Doesn't expecting the unexpected make the unexpected the expected?
If it makes sense, DON'T do it.
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Message 9031 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 2:43:55 UTC - in response to Message 9030.  

AND QUIT TESTING on the production side!



That's what the people who came up with the last bunch of opti apps got ripped for not testing. Yet as I mentioned before travis did not test any of the versions before releasing .08-.14 and they kept messing computers up for a couple versions.


These versions ran, they just had performance fluctuations due to architectural differences (something I can't test very well considering our somewhat limited hardware).
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Message 9032 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 2:50:03 UTC - in response to Message 9031.  
Last modified: 25 Jan 2009, 2:55:10 UTC

AND QUIT TESTING on the production side!



That's what the people who came up with the last bunch of opti apps got ripped for not testing. Yet as I mentioned before travis did not test any of the versions before releasing .08-.14 and they kept messing computers up for a couple versions.


These versions ran, they just had performance fluctuations due to architectural differences (something I can't test very well considering our somewhat limited hardware).


If you can't test it, how you can decide what results are fine and what are wrong....?

:D :D :D :D :D

If you was working for a company, enterprise or how you named it, now you was fired...

Please, for the future of the humanity, don't be IT developer...
Logan.

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Message 9033 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 2:50:57 UTC - in response to Message 9031.  
Last modified: 25 Jan 2009, 2:51:54 UTC

It is not so difficult to set up a testing environment.

If you recall, this is what caused this entire problem in the first place.

There was an optimized app that had been running since mid December putting out bad data.

Many projects have testing sites. Even permanent testing sites, so people can optimize and test. Project programmers can program and test, and particpants can join in and help test. Without causing all these freaking problems that we have been having on this project due to bad applications being released.

You can even set it up to test your validator against different scenarios. Go figure. Running a test on things before they go into production?

Or since this project is alpha, am I to assume that the entire project is a test environment.. maybe I was just missing the point.



P.S. Logan.. I sent you a PM.
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Message 9034 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 2:52:00 UTC - in response to Message 9027.  

Thankfully a bunch of our users are generous enough with their time to make optimized applications available for you to use. I don't have any problem putting our seal of approval on them for the rest of you to use. I'm not quite sure what else you want me to do here.

Yes, you're right. All of your users were generous with their time and efforts to advance your project to the point that it is now. Not only in the programming of the apps but in the processing of the data for you.
Gee,thanks! I'll cut your credit in half as your reward?


Also, arguments that we're just trying to keep Dave Anderson happy are probably directed at the wrong person, because he's on my PhD thesis committee :P


Sorry to hear that.
I also crunch for SETI but gave more of my processing time to MW as I liked the credit that was being given.

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