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ProfilePaul D. Buck

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Message 13750 - Posted: 3 Mar 2009, 9:55:40 UTC - in response to Message 13748.  

I decided to give it a try and am always poised to revert back to 9.1...

On GPU Grid we suggest BOINC Manager 6.5.0 and Nvidia 181.22 for Windows XP, but there are always people that are determined to try other combinations, and some of them are even successful ... :)

But, if you watch the boards carefully you can see the number of people that try new versions and then have to revert back to older versions.

For example, I am still waiting for a version of 6.6.x that works for me ... the bad news is that many of these test versions actually screw up the internal values when you revert back and you can spend a few days getting back to "normal" ...

The suggestion is to stick with what is known to work ... but if you like adventures ... :)
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Message 13751 - Posted: 3 Mar 2009, 10:58:40 UTC

Well, I tried catalist 8.12 this morning with the same results. I think I'll try a complete reinstall of XP on Thursday and see if that helps. I had a couple of machines I had to do that with for GPUGrid.
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Message 13756 - Posted: 3 Mar 2009, 12:23:06 UTC - in response to Message 13734.  

Misfit wrote:
ATI is well known for releasing faulty drivers and following up with hotfixes (some of which are also faulty). It's the reason after all these years as an ATI customer I switched to nVidia. They might not be as powerful but at least their stuff works.

Pretty much the reason I never even started buying ATI, though I'm seriously considering a 4870 so I can do some serious MW crunching.

I don't have a GPU card but i've been told that if I want to install one I'm best putting an ATI one in rather than NVIDIA as I already have the ATI drivers. Is this correct?
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Message 13759 - Posted: 3 Mar 2009, 13:24:52 UTC - in response to Message 13756.  

Misfit wrote:
ATI is well known for releasing faulty drivers and following up with hotfixes (some of which are also faulty). It's the reason after all these years as an ATI customer I switched to nVidia. They might not be as powerful but at least their stuff works.

Pretty much the reason I never even started buying ATI, though I'm seriously considering a 4870 so I can do some serious MW crunching.

I don't have a GPU card but i've been told that if I want to install one I'm best putting an ATI one in rather than NVIDIA as I already have the ATI drivers. Is this correct?

No, you ought to use the cards(s) that you want and should be able to use the drivers that come with it, or find them on the 'net. Most device manufacturers have sites for driver downloads. Already having ATI drivers on your system should not cause problems with a nVidia installation.


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Message 13771 - Posted: 3 Mar 2009, 15:08:30 UTC

I've never tried it but I wonder if you could install NVidia Drivers with a NVidia Card installed & then shut the PC down & pull the NVidia Card. Then put a ATI Card in & start back up & install the ATI Drivers.

Once that was done if you could flip flop Video Cards as you wish & have them work without un-installing & re-installing the proper Video Card Drivers all the Time ???
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Message 13773 - Posted: 3 Mar 2009, 15:53:25 UTC - in response to Message 13771.  

I've never tried it but I wonder if you could install NVidia Drivers with a NVidia Card installed & then shut the PC down & pull the NVidia Card. Then put a ATI Card in & start back up & install the ATI Drivers.

Once that was done if you could flip flop Video Cards as you wish & have them work without un-installing & re-installing the proper Video Card Drivers all the Time ???

I don't know the answer to that, but I would be cautious with that flip flopping. These cards are quite expensive and delicate and I imagine could be physically damaged or killed with static, which would not be very nice.


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Message 13781 - Posted: 3 Mar 2009, 18:07:43 UTC - in response to Message 13773.  

......... not sure about flip flopping, but I have one host that has had at different times an nVidia or ATi card - I never uninstall or reinstall drivers. Put in the 4870 card & MW runs GPU WUs - remove & replace with 9800GT and CUDA sees the card & runs GPUGrid. Needs a restart of course!!!!!!!
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Message 13786 - Posted: 3 Mar 2009, 19:55:56 UTC - in response to Message 13781.  
Last modified: 3 Mar 2009, 19:56:19 UTC

First I had a nVidia 8800GTS512 installed, then an ATI 4850. And I changed them a few times. It's just a shutdown, change the cards and start again. Yes, it works ;-)

Mike
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Message 13787 - Posted: 3 Mar 2009, 21:00:32 UTC

Okay Guys, it works I guess then so I may try it down the Road myself ... Thanks
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Lloyd M.

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Message 13789 - Posted: 3 Mar 2009, 21:14:23 UTC

Yes, that should work with no problem. If it were me, I wouldn't do it especially frequently, because you could eventually damage the contacts. My guess is they would go on the card first, but not necessarily.

And take proper static precautions. Use an anti-static wrist strap of course. Also, I would recommend against what is usually listed as the first step: unplugging the computer. That also disconnects it from ground. Cyberguys sells M/F pigtails that leave only the ground conductor connected, or it is possible to modify a regular power cord to do the same thing (At your own risk! Whilst disconnected, of coure, carefully insulating the other two wires).

(Sorry - that's my A+ Certification training speaking)
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Message 13792 - Posted: 3 Mar 2009, 21:25:15 UTC - in response to Message 13789.  

Also, I would recommend against what is usually listed as the first step: unplugging the computer. That also disconnects it from ground.

That's how I always work on computers. Here in UK we have switched wall sockets, so switch it off at the wall but leave it plugged in, then just grab hold of some metal in the case to ground yourself before pulling cards.
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ProfilePaul D. Buck

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Message 13798 - Posted: 3 Mar 2009, 22:27:40 UTC - in response to Message 13786.  

First I had a nVidia 8800GTS512 installed, then an ATI 4850. And I changed them a few times. It's just a shutdown, change the cards and start again. Yes, it works ;-)


Not always ...

There are times that Windows XP will "forget" that the drivers have been installed on switching cards and require you to reinstall the drivers. As always ... YMMV ... if it works for you, that is cool ... but it does not work always ... my experience has been that if you change cards back and forth you will be reinstalling the drivers each iteration.
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Message 13800 - Posted: 3 Mar 2009, 22:48:01 UTC - in response to Message 13798.  
Last modified: 3 Mar 2009, 22:50:34 UTC

First I had a nVidia 8800GTS512 installed, then an ATI 4850. And I changed them a few times. It's just a shutdown, change the cards and start again. Yes, it works ;-)


Not always ...

There are times that Windows XP will "forget" that the drivers have been installed on switching cards and require you to reinstall the drivers. As always ... YMMV ... if it works for you, that is cool ... but it does not work always ... my experience has been that if you change cards back and forth you will be reinstalling the drivers each iteration.

It's the same with USB devices like external hard disks, keyboards, mice - you often seem them reinstall when plugging back in. Almost certainly if they are plugged back into different a USB port.

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Message 13804 - Posted: 3 Mar 2009, 23:14:20 UTC - in response to Message 13759.  

Misfit wrote:
ATI is well known for releasing faulty drivers and following up with hotfixes (some of which are also faulty). It's the reason after all these years as an ATI customer I switched to nVidia. They might not be as powerful but at least their stuff works.

Pretty much the reason I never even started buying ATI, though I'm seriously considering a 4870 so I can do some serious MW crunching.

I don't have a GPU card but i've been told that if I want to install one I'm best putting an ATI one in rather than NVIDIA as I already have the ATI drivers. Is this correct?

No, you ought to use the cards(s) that you want and should be able to use the drivers that come with it, or find them on the 'net. Most device manufacturers have sites for driver downloads. Already having ATI drivers on your system should not cause problems with a nVidia installation.

I'd still run something like CC Cleaner after uninstalling the ATI drivers. Both companies really dig deep into the registry.
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Lloyd M.

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Message 13821 - Posted: 4 Mar 2009, 2:10:33 UTC - in response to Message 13792.  

Lloyd wrote:
Also, I would recommend against what is usually listed as the first step: unplugging the computer. That also disconnects it from ground.

Temujin wrote:
That's how I always work on computers. Here in UK we have switched wall sockets, so switch it off at the wall but leave it plugged in, then just grab hold of some metal in the case to ground yourself before pulling cards.


Switched outlets - how very sensible - Just like having 230V mains ;^)

Here across the pond, we sometimes have that setup in order to control lamps with a wall switch, though that isn't that common.

So, if we don't want to work on something hot, we get to figure out which circuit breaker it is. I have a setup that has a remote that you plug into the wall or into a light socket, then a sensor that indicates which breaker controls that circuit.
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Lloyd M.

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Message 13822 - Posted: 4 Mar 2009, 2:27:35 UTC - in response to Message 13804.  

No, you ought to use the cards(s) that you want and should be able to use the drivers that come with it, or find them on the 'net. Most device manufacturers have sites for driver downloads. Already having ATI drivers on your system should not cause problems with a nVidia installation.


Well, yeah, except in my case, to some extent the choice is being dictated by which project I care more about. I already like Einstein, so I would be really happy if they got a CUDA app working. I would be basically ecstatic if there were a CUDA app for this project.

SETI - not so much. On my Opty, I just got stuck with another one of those endless WUs that had already cost more than 72 hours, had an ever-increasing "to completion" figure (20+ hours), and had already passed deadline.

By comparison, the latest MW WUs take something like two hours on the same machine

The only reason I even had SETI WUs was because this project was down for a while, and not sending out any work to anyone.



Misfit wrote:
I'd still run something like CC Cleaner after uninstalling the ATI drivers. Both companies really dig deep into the registry.


Can't hurt, and will only cost you some time. It might be worth experimenting with restore points for this.

If it were me in that situation, I'd just leave both drivers on there until there were signs of trouble. The thing is, if I ever were there, it wouldn't be for long, as I'd just score another PCIe mobo and build a machine around it, so I could run both GPU cards at the same time. The only possible wrinkle in this might be lack of support under linux, I suppose I could score a copy XP Home cheap on Craigs List or something.

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Message 13828 - Posted: 4 Mar 2009, 5:10:34 UTC - in response to Message 13821.  

OR unplug it then hold the power button down. That will drain what is left in the system. Ground yourself beforehand so you don't discharge any static electricity into your components.

Leaving something plugged in and grounding yourself at the same time... might as well work on your car battery while standing barefoot on your concrete garage floor.
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Message 13835 - Posted: 4 Mar 2009, 7:58:19 UTC - in response to Message 13828.  
Last modified: 4 Mar 2009, 8:06:15 UTC

OR unplug it then hold the power button down. That will drain what is left in the system. Ground yourself beforehand so you don't discharge any static electricity into your components.

Leaving something plugged in and grounding yourself at the same time... might as well work on your car battery while standing barefoot on your concrete garage floor.

To do it 'properly', you would place your PC on an anti-static mat, replace power lead with a lead prupose built lead which connects only the ground with to the PC (or attach PC to a ground point), use an anti-static wristband (to ground you) with other end attached to the PC (which is now grounded), touch a bare metal part of the PC case before you start, to discharge any static you may have, and be carful not to unecessarilly touch any electrical circuits anyway.

Or, open up the PC and be absolutely sure not to touch anything that could be killed with static that you may have picked up from the carpet. Static shock must be 3500 to 4000 volts before you can feel it, but integrated circuits can be damaged or destroyed by static voltages as low as 400 volts.

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ProfilePaul D. Buck

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Message 13840 - Posted: 4 Mar 2009, 9:41:54 UTC - in response to Message 13835.  

Or, open up the PC and be absolutely sure not to touch anything that could be killed with static that you may have picked up from the carpet. Static shock must be 3500 to 4000 volts before you can feel it, but integrated circuits can be damaged or destroyed by static voltages as low as 400 volts.


Pull scotch tape off a roll, minimum 5K to somewhere north of 20K volts ... not much current, but then again, you don't need much at all ...
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Message 13853 - Posted: 4 Mar 2009, 13:21:54 UTC - in response to Message 13828.  

might as well work on your car battery while standing barefoot on your concrete garage floor.


How about getting zapped (a few times) from a distributer wire while working on the engine timing. My ignition coil puts out 45k volts. :P
Doesn't expecting the unexpected make the unexpected the expected?
If it makes sense, DON'T do it.
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