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Brian Silvers

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Message 16257 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009, 20:47:58 UTC - in response to Message 16255.  

Yes, it's all about keeping things up and running and not malevolence that someone else is getting more than he deserves


Have any of you ever stopped to consider that your actions could be causing other people to run into similar shortages, or is that too far outside of your realm of concern?

The wu shortages were occuring before GPU crunching really took off. I believe mainly due to the fact that new work is generated based on the results of the work returned. If anything, folks using a GPU could be complaining about the slow turn around time from the CPU crunchers and how it is limiting the amount of new work generated..... ;P LOL


Perhaps, but there are complaints about systems not having work, then there are those of you who are intentionally attempting to circumvent not having work to do from this project by intentionally attempting to bump yourselves up to the top of the queue *AND* who are still continuing to complain about not being served fast enough. That seems a bit much to me, but hey, I just have two "old" computers...so what do I know?
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ProfileThe Gas Giant
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Message 16258 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009, 20:50:35 UTC - in response to Message 16256.  


My old P4 has a 90% resource share on MW, wu's take anywhere from an hour to 40min. Due to the BOINC back off it still gets down to 2 wu's cached from 12. It doesn't run out of work but heck it comes close!


So, other than competition, what is the problem with boxes being idle for even several hours a day? There have been several days in the past few months that I've just decided that I'm powering my computer off for the night when I go to bed. Other days I leave it running. If a project has no work for me, I either pick another to get work from, or I just let it idle. So I'd like to understand what reason there could be other than a competitive reason why one has to run an update script. I don't mean a reason why one might "want to" run an update script, but why one would absolutely be forced into (aka "need to" or "has to") run a script.

It's an individuals choice to do whatever they like...all within the rules of BOINC and the project(s) they want to be crunching. Each to their own.
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ProfileLord Tedric
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Message 16259 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009, 21:03:20 UTC - in response to Message 16252.  


Correct. I made the choice. I swapped out my nvidia 9600 for an ati 4850 got heaps of work the first 2 days then things started to go down hill and frustration set in due to no work and seeing MW backed off for 24hrs, YES 24HRS. I made my choice to write an update script which had been in the back of my mind for a while due to LHC. It was my choice to work within the project constraints and still is.


You say that you are working within the constraints of the project? Are you?

I make a comparison to Seti@Home (don't get me wrong, I've only crunched a couple of wu's there since reaching the 1m mark, I'm not a fan of Seti@home).

Seti@home have a graphics specific application available to download,
Milkyway does not have a graphics specific application.

Seti@home has preferences to enable/disable graphics processing,
Milkyway does not.

Seti@home does not limit the number of wu's per core, Milkyway does.

Seti@home supports wingmen (who can hold you back( less deserving?)), Milkyway does not.

Who sets the constraints of the project? the project admins do!

IMHO.
Not producing a graphics specific application, not including preferences to support graphics processing shows that (currently) this type of processing is not within the constraints of the project.
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Thamir Ghaslan

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Message 16260 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009, 21:04:11 UTC

OIE!

Not that I'm trying to flame here! But I can't believe the rambling here!

What we are dealing with here is simply the project having more crunching power than it needs! And this has been flying off the chart with the GPU clients.

The obvious fix is that this project produces more intensive computation and then everyone will be happy!

In the meantime I have other projects attached and simply don't care if I get milkyway units or not!
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ProfileLord Tedric
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Message 16261 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009, 21:09:11 UTC - in response to Message 16260.  
Last modified: 20 Mar 2009, 21:09:54 UTC

OIE!

Not that I'm trying to flame here! But I can't believe the rambling here!

What we are dealing with here is simply the project having more crunching power than it needs! And this has been flying off the chart with the GPU clients.

The obvious fix is that this project produces more intensive computation and then everyone will be happy!

In the meantime I have other projects attached and simply don't care if I get milkyway units or not!


When users start using the term 'DESERVE' I feel that this is more about credits than project.
Does my AMD Phenon X4 deserve more than an old P4 with HT?
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Brian Silvers

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Message 16262 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009, 21:10:11 UTC - in response to Message 16233.  


I believe the update periods I have selected is well within the projects ability to service them, even if multiple people used exactly the same periods of time.


That depends on the amount of staggering between the requests. A server will eventually run into an upper bound on the number of transactions it can handle a second. Depending on other load on the server, that amount is going to vary. Someone said that I had no access to the metrics of the server either as an excuse to continue. I view that as a poor excuse. In times of high demand and low supply, increasing the level of demand cannot be of help.

However, most all of you seem to be focusing on the fact that the server isn't being overloaded to the point that it can't respond. What you seem to be missing is that you all are likely sucking down all the available work so frequently that you could just be causing your own mess. You're acting like a bunch of pigs going up to the trough and just trying to get all you can multiple times. Try being patient... Things might go better for all of us...
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Brian Silvers

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Message 16263 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009, 21:13:27 UTC - in response to Message 16260.  

OIE!

Not that I'm trying to flame here! But I can't believe the rambling here!

What we are dealing with here is simply the project having more crunching power than it needs! And this has been flying off the chart with the GPU clients.

The obvious fix is that this project produces more intensive computation and then everyone will be happy!

In the meantime I have other projects attached and simply don't care if I get milkyway units or not!


Agreed. Like I just said, if my system goes idle, so be it. I figure I'll get some work when there is some available and I'm not going to pester the hell out of the server just because I want it NOW...
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MontagsMeeting

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Message 16264 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009, 21:13:58 UTC

Some go to the north pole, others to the equator in their holidays

is it really that hard to understand that not all people like the same

I like it to keep my rigs at 100% all the time and "can't understand" why someone can shut down their computers

you're not bad because of shutting down your PC in my eyes - it is your way

why are the people bad in your eyes when they don't do it your way


And it isn't competition, i have done it this way all the time and there was a lot of time when i wasn't competetive. The competition that counts is me against the technic, i like it, it's fun for me.

If it isn't important for you why doing MW? Let some more WUs for me - for me it's important ;)
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ProfileLord Tedric
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Message 16266 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009, 21:18:22 UTC - in response to Message 16264.  


If it isn't important for you why doing MW? Let some more WUs for me - for me it's important ;)


There that says it don't you think!

What's important is and has always been, with all projects!, The Science!
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MontagsMeeting

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Message 16267 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009, 21:23:38 UTC - in response to Message 16259.  


Correct. I made the choice. I swapped out my nvidia 9600 for an ati 4850 got heaps of work the first 2 days then things started to go down hill and frustration set in due to no work and seeing MW backed off for 24hrs, YES 24HRS. I made my choice to write an update script which had been in the back of my mind for a while due to LHC. It was my choice to work within the project constraints and still is.


You say that you are working within the constraints of the project? Are you?

I make a comparison to Seti@Home (don't get me wrong, I've only crunched a couple of wu's there since reaching the 1m mark, I'm not a fan of Seti@home).

Seti@home have a graphics specific application available to download,
Milkyway does not have a graphics specific application.

Seti@home has preferences to enable/disable graphics processing,
Milkyway does not.

Seti@home does not limit the number of wu's per core, Milkyway does.

Seti@home supports wingmen (who can hold you back( less deserving?)), Milkyway does not.

Who sets the constraints of the project? the project admins do!

IMHO.
Not producing a graphics specific application, not including preferences to support graphics processing shows that (currently) this type of processing is not within the constraints of the project.


it is allowed and wanted to build your own apps if they do the work correctly this is part of any boinc project
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Profilebanditwolf
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Message 16268 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009, 21:29:53 UTC - in response to Message 16259.  

Who sets the constraints of the project? the project admins do!

For most projects that is true. Mw has DA (seti) as the 'unofficial' project leader. He is why the project is where it's at now (atleast a fair part of it). He grades Travis' papers. So Travis follows his ruling even when not many users may think a certain choice is the best. Also those funding control where the project goes. (ie: Nano-Hive, lost interest & dumped the project)
Doesn't expecting the unexpected make the unexpected the expected?
If it makes sense, DON'T do it.
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Message 16271 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009, 22:06:16 UTC - in response to Message 16264.  

Some go to the north pole, others to the equator in their holidays


Some even go to the Caribbean.

Live long and Beers!

Good idea, but do you think that this is such a real good idea for everyone to be doing? It could bring the server to its knees...



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Pwrguru

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Message 16274 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009, 22:16:05 UTC - in response to Message 16258.  



It's an individuals choice to do whatever they like...all within the rules of BOINC and the project(s) they want to be crunching. Each to their own.

That statement proves to me that you care nothing about this project other then feeding your ego..........If you have to have work units so bad you can gladly have mine....
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ProfileThe Gas Giant
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Message 16280 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009, 22:28:48 UTC - in response to Message 16274.  
Last modified: 20 Mar 2009, 22:43:08 UTC



It's an individuals choice to do whatever they like...all within the rules of BOINC and the project(s) they want to be crunching. Each to their own.

That statement proves to me that you care nothing about this project other then feeding your ego..........If you have to have work units so bad you can gladly have mine....

LOL...have you looked at how often your computer with the GPU contacts the server. People in glass houses.....

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MontagsMeeting

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Message 16282 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009, 22:30:37 UTC - in response to Message 16274.  



It's an individuals choice to do whatever they like...all within the rules of BOINC and the project(s) they want to be crunching. Each to their own.

That statement proves to me that you care nothing about this project other then feeding your ego..........If you have to have work units so bad you can gladly have mine....


Please explain that! Your conclusion doesn't have anything to do with what you rely on, or am i wrong ???
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Message 16299 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009, 22:49:52 UTC - in response to Message 16246.  

If they are going to write a script they certainly will make it request work as much as possible.

made some self-experiments? :D

I pretend the scheduler is a pirate bay tracker and hammer it with 50,000 half open connections per second. Some are envious of my tactics, but I just call it being normal.
me@rescam.org
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Message 16302 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009, 22:53:06 UTC

As I thought....too long ago to be of concern in this discussion.

More like I proved you wrong again and you're having a difficult time dealing with that. If making up an excuse helps to make you feel better about yourself so be it.
me@rescam.org
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ProfileThe Gas Giant
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Message 16310 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009, 23:01:40 UTC - in response to Message 16302.  
Last modified: 20 Mar 2009, 23:23:37 UTC

Running an update script at SETI did not get you banned.

EEENT! Wrong! N/A and "The K's" were banned by Rom Walton. I don't doubt there were others. As Rom said if you got caught running any scripts at SETI you could expect to be banned (because Rom sez so!)

That must have been in the very early days of BOINC...got a time frame?

I left my day planner from that time frame at home. You'll have to read through Rom's post history. Enjoy.

As I thought....too long ago to be of concern in this discussion.

More like I proved you wrong again and you're having a difficult time dealing with that. If making up an excuse helps to make you feel better about yourself so be it.

Let's just stick to the facts....
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MontagsMeeting

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Message 16313 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009, 23:04:22 UTC - in response to Message 16302.  

More like I proved you wrong again and you're having a difficult time dealing with that. If making up an excuse helps to make you feel better about yourself so be it.


at least stubborn :D
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