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Posts by Zydor

21) Message boards : Number crunching : computation error on HD 6970 - drive 13.4 (Message 58214)
Posted 12 May 2013 by Zydor
Post:
Sorry to hear of the illness troubles .... fingers crossed for you :)

We are actually - in practice - not *that* far apart in the specs. Biggest difference is with your Catalyst version number (11.6) when the current is 13.4, that will be a major difference that needs eliminating.

The rest looks fine, being on V6 *shouldn't* be an issue (it could turn out to be, as V7 is a major change - I don't know if its an issue yet), but if you can get to V7, that would solve that. When doing the latter, a clean reinstall to V7 will probably be best overall if hardware allows, as you seem to have had to chop and change many versions.

Lots of clutter can get left behind as you sensibly point out, and since you have had some mega woes and hassles, probably best to get a clean install to V7 if possible - at least that would eliminate many potential causes, and set you up nicely for times ahead. Use utilities to get rid of any junk left behind in any large scale deletion - including deleting old circa V6 level directories left behind after alleged "deletion"

Nudge me when you feel you are ready and we can try and work from there ...

Regards
Zy
22) Message boards : Number crunching : computation error on HD 6970 - drive 13.4 (Message 58211)
Posted 11 May 2013 by Zydor
Post:
Interesting ..... I just got back to Crunching again, now I have been through the whole Working to Fully Retired thing in the last two years. My installation is therefore "clean" (as such). It happily runs V13.4 - going well in fact.

My hardware is not *that* much different - as such - (in a machro architecture sense) from Op's and yours. Its possible differences in base hardware 7XXX, 6XXX and 5XXX cause all this .... we'll see as they say. There has to be something lurking therefore inside yours and the Ops installation to cause this. As to who's *fault* that is - User or Developer - that is not really relevant.

I'll have a ferret and see if I can figure what the differences between Ops, Your's and Mine are to cause the difference, and my running installation.

Meanwhile it would help if you and the Op could give a - detailed - breakdown of the Primary machine used including - especially - software version numbers, utilities loaded blah blah (I'll do the same tonight). I will try and spot the potential differences that result in mine working and both yours not working on 13.4

As a starter, here are my version numbers from the screen found at:
Catalyst Control Center - Information - Software:

Driver Packing Version: 12.104-130328a-155980C-ATI
Catalyst Version: 13.4
2D Driver Version: 8.01.01.1295
Direct3D Version: 9.14.10.0969
Open GL Version: 6.14.10.12217
Catalyst Control Center Version: 2013.0328.2218.38225
AMD Audio Driver Version: 7.12.0.7714

Any drivers found older than the above should be updated before ripping apart anything else. Once we are on the same playing field with drivers, if there is then still a problem, it will be vastly easier to track down the gremlin.

Would be best to go through the whole "updating" thing to make a level playing field between us - usual Windows Updates et al. That would include all the less commonly updated drivers that often get left (sometimes for years). Those can easily be sorted out using:

RadarSync PC Updator http://www.radarsync.com (free, but try and make a well deserve donation however small - even just a few dollars would be good)

and

CCleaner Professional http://www.piriform.com(cheap as chips for the Professional Version which tags its menu Option to the Recycle Bin icon)

A third tool that is invaluable in my eyes is ARO, now in its 2013 incarnation. That's a bit more pricey, but when used in combination of Windows Update et al, and the two utilities above, you are good to go for anything.

http://www.sammsoft.com/ARO2013.aspx
(There will be a reaction against Samsoft from some people, but they haven't let me down yet. Good Software.

Both the first two especially, are written by a couple of the Classic Very Knowledgeable in depth tech guys, and they do a brilliant job, without making a song and dance about it all - highly recommended, they have never let me down yet - been using both since they first started up many moons ago - when used on top of the "standard" updating tools such as Windows Update et al. My Installation runs sweet, clean and no bother because of it. Samsoft are good in my eyes - horses for courses as they say.

All that is a bit of work, I am aware - but not *that* much - and you will come out of it with a well tuned, clean, humming installation, as well as solving the original problem.

Pays your money and takes your choice as they say :)

Regards
Zy
23) Message boards : Number crunching : More efficient GPU usage? (Message 58203)
Posted 11 May 2013 by Zydor
Post:
Client Config Options are always a good one to look at and keep in mind, it has pretty well all the optional parameters for configuring Clients

http://boinc.berkeley.edu/wiki/Client_configuration
24) Message boards : Number crunching : Run Multiple WU's on Your GPU (Message 58192)
Posted 9 May 2013 by Zydor
Post:
Just seen this - and noticed no reply to the specific .... so ...

The dash(s) are a graphics representation of additional characters that word processors place into files for their own use - they are varying control characters.

When such a file containing those characters is viewed most of them cannot be seen by the human eye - they are hidden characters. However, that doesn't mean they are not there, and usually the "-" (no quotes) is the indicator that you are using a "dirty" editor that uses hidden control characters (most editors do, don't misplace the use of the word "dirty").

When BOINC reads the file, it also reads those hidden characters, and basically says "wtf is that" and gives up.

To avoid that always - without fail - use Notepad to make config (etc) files. Notepad is a "clean" tool that does not put in hidden control characters, and therefore when BOINC reads it, its a happy bunny.

If the file is falling over, make sure its formed inside Notepad first, no other Tool before ripping apart anything else on a fault-finding odyssey :)

Its use will save 2 to 3 secs on the load/unload of WUs between gpu/cpu if configured for multiple WUs per GPU (not all of them, but most of them). If your normal one-per-gpu crunch time is (say) 50 secs+ per WU, then for sure its a difference, but not earth shattering. If you have a fast GPU pumping them at around 20 to 30secs a WU, then its vital that an app_info file is used if your aim is maximising credits; as the 2-3 secs load unload time represents 15%+ or so of total crunch time; not the 2% or so if your base line time was 50secs or so actual crunch time.

So .... if your unaided crunching time was 50-60 secs, then for sure, you will gain a little, but hardly anything to worry about. Run a 6XXX or 7XXX high end variant - then its essential one is used to cut down "dead time" if you are to maximise credits.

There is always a downside to things (!). This one is that by using the file as discussed, all the GPU(s) capacity is utilised to the full 100% capacity, there is no "wasted" capacity compared to only running at circa 90%+ GPU utilisation. Therefore, if you try to do something else as well ..... the PC is not going to be a happy bunny, and response on the extra task will be horrific as all GPU capacity is pointed at BOINC via the app_info.

App_Info's are good for "fire and forget" crunchers dedicated to crunching, but for machines that also are used for browsing et al at the same time, its trial and error; because its pointless, as the Browsing sessions suck up any spare capacity (and more). So its pointless frankly doing this if you multi-task doing others things as well on the same machine.

Pays your money takes your choice as they say......

On a fast machine, this works well on aka high end variants of 6XX or 7XX. High end 5XX is trial and error experiment to see how yours goes. On a slow machine (low end 5XX, low end 6XX and low end 7XX that is used to multi-task on browsing non-BOINC - or using a low end variant of any GPU Class or type on BOINC dedicated machines - don't bother, it will slow it down horribly, a real pain.
25) Message boards : Number crunching : 7970 crunching more WUs (Message 53725)
Posted 21 Mar 2012 by Zydor
Post:
With 7970s generally speaking you can bring down the:

--gpu-target-frequency 60

to:

--gpu-target-frequency 10

without a problem. If you do hit a sluggish screen - frankly highly unlikely with 7970s - then bring it up in steps of five until the screen responds ok. I've run mine at less than that, but its going to depend on individual setup going lower than 10, so experiment if you want, but going down to ten is pretty as much as you will squeeze out of it in practice.

Keep an eye on temperatures when doing this, should be fine, 7970s are cooled well, but watch it until you are happy its settled ok.

Regards
Zy
26) Message boards : Number crunching : Problem with catalyst cc since update (Message 53679)
Posted 14 Mar 2012 by Zydor
Post:
Nice catch :)

I had a ferret on that utility, seems like MS discontinued it due to problems. There is a replacement, see link below for explanation and background. I have not used either, so cant comment, but be aware of the MS change.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2438651/

Once you read that see link below to get to the new one - I have no idea how effective it may or may not be.

http://support.microsoft.com/mats/Program_Install_and_Uninstall

Regards
Zy
27) Message boards : Number crunching : Problem with catalyst cc since update (Message 53640)
Posted 13 Mar 2012 by Zydor
Post:
Usually yes. Problems can occur with non reference designs (ie custom builds by individual card makers). But there are no problems if the card is just a rebranded reference design (eg like the 7970s were on first deployment, the only difference was the logo sticker because AMD would not allow partners to customise on first deployment).

Where issues can come, is when you use unofficial mode to do voltage changes - the latter are a baaaad idea unless you know exactly what its at with voltage changes, burnt cards will follow messing around. In that mode, there are real differences with custom cards, but still reference cards will respond 100% to voltage changes as all have the same type of voltage regulator, custom cards dont.

However, you dont need unofficial mode, leave it alone, and because of that, you are not going to fiddle with out of spec voltage change. Its possible that changing core speed etc may not work in official mode with non reference cards, but that would be unusual. So dont hesitate to try it, if it doesnt work, no harm done to the card. As always keep and eye on the temperatures.

Bottom line .... Stay out of unofficial mode and you should be fine, if the default official mode doesnt work on yours there's no harm done.

You cant get into unofficial mode by accident, so if you dont know how, no worries, it'll never happen anyway, so dont worry about that aspect - just be aware there is a difference, and to stay out of it if you do happen to come across an explanation of how to get into unofficial mode. They did it that way deliberately to stop less experienced playing around and burning a card.

EDIT: I am off to my pit within an hour (I'm UTC time zone), but dont hesitate to post for help using Afterburner, there are many experienced users of Afterburner out there who also help if you post asking for help.

Regards
Zy
28) Message boards : Number crunching : Problem with catalyst cc since update (Message 53633)
Posted 12 Mar 2012 by Zydor
Post:
If still issues download and use Afterburner to control the card:

http://downloads.guru3d.com/MSI-Afterburner-2.2.0-Beta-14_d2859.html

Regards
Zy
29) Message boards : Number crunching : Problem with catalyst cc since update (Message 53630)
Posted 12 Mar 2012 by Zydor
Post:
Here is the link to use. The first file below is for Win7 64bit, the second for Win7 32bit

I have no idea if this will solve your issue, nor do I know if all support files come down with it. From a security angle you have no worries, its a safe download, I am just flagging up that loading this may not solve your issue - however, if you have a dead card otherwise, its worth a go.

Its a safe download, I redirected one of my domains to make the file available. To open it use rar or latest winzip. The first link shows what is in the file (see the box in the first post on the first link), the second link below is the Win7 64bit file download, the third link below is the Win7 32bit download.

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=359755

http://www.sment.co.uk/CCC_12.2__x64__mstcobra_.rar

http://www.sment.co.uk/CCC_12.2__x86__mstcobra_.rar

Regards
Zy
30) Message boards : Number crunching : Problem with catalyst cc since update (Message 53629)
Posted 12 Mar 2012 by Zydor
Post:
Had a nose around .... it appears that there is a problem with CCC crashing on startup. The guys at Guru3D put together the latest driver with the last known working CCC.
I have no idea if this will solve your issue, nor do I know if all support files come down with it. From a security angle you have no worries, its a safe download, I am just flagging up that loading this may not solve your issue - however, if you have a dead card otherwise, its worth a go.

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=359755

EDIT: Wait .... that download link is a pain - working on a better solution
EDIT2: Ok got one downloading, I will get the other as well, and repost on a different better down link, will take around 30 mins - bare with me
EDIT3: Uploading to a good link - should be ready around 0215hrs UTC
EDIT4: Its a .rar file, you'll need the rar software or the latest winzip (10 mins to go)

Regards
Zy
31) Message boards : Number crunching : Problem with catalyst cc since update (Message 53625)
Posted 11 Mar 2012 by Zydor
Post:
Double check the download was Driver and CCC, not just the driver itself. There is no reason why 12.1 should not be working, its strange .... there's something basic amiss somewhere

EDIT
BOINC what version? If not 7.X.X change to 7.0.20 due to OpenCL needs (separate issue not related - but may also be a problem later).
32) Message boards : Number crunching : Multi-GPU Question (Message 53537)
Posted 4 Mar 2012 by Zydor
Post:
If I put 2-5850's in slot 1 and 2 and crossfire them and then place a 5870 in slot 3 without a installing a crossfire bridge will the 5870 still downclock?

Cards without a crossfire bridge attatched are "on their own", and will not be affected by any routine crossfire driven requirement, restriction or enhancement that may (or may not) apply, to single GPU crossfired cards in the same box connected at the same time.

The above is carefully worded as there are differences between Crossfire and CrossfireX, but in the circumstances you are describing I see no issue, and a standalone card ( standalone in terms of the card not being connected by a crossfire(X) bridge) has no idea Crossfire or Crossfire(X) is there, so I cant see any problem with your hoped for effect.

Your Gamer Card(s) should at the least have one card in slot zero (attatch monitor to that one in slot zero).

There are exclusion clauses that you can put into cc_config which will tell BOINC not use various card makes and mainboard slots. The latter facility has its trips and traps - in particular the wording of the clauses and supporting explanations means what it says it means, despite human temptation to *think* it *also* means something else, so watch that - but for the most part works ok, maybe worth a look, as it may help you in your specific circumstances.

Regards
Zy
33) Message boards : Number crunching : 79XX Dont Run II (Message 53485)
Posted 29 Feb 2012 by Zydor
Post:
Get the cmd line frequency setting as low as possible, it ensures maximum time by GPUs crunching WUs. Dont set it to zero, wierdness will ensue, otherwise pretty much set it to as low as you can get away with.

The screen slow down this can cause is not really an issue with 7970s, as they switch so fast to screen servicing and do it in a flash, so dont need the time set for extended time servicing the screen - set low as she will go, and leave it there. I would anticipate the new NVidia range to do that as well, its more a function of 28nm cards enabling fatser technologies than card Vendor.

The lower it goes, the more heat is chucked out (its doing more work crunching), so watch temps as they will increase from the norm when the frequency statement is not used.

Preferences that dont clash with app_info (cant think of one that does, although as always there is probably a small exception somewhere), will operate as normal.

Regards
Zy
34) Message boards : Number crunching : 79XX Dont Run II (Message 53474)
Posted 28 Feb 2012 by Zydor
Post:
Which up date - an AMD driver ? If so, I'd try still using the release day drivers as the changes to the driver sets so far have been gamer related not Compute - obvious dilema if your a gamer as well .... but there ya go :)

What utilisation figure do you have in CCC ? If its 95%+ thats pretty well it, 97-99% is the norm on 7970s. Significantly less than that circa 85-90% then there maybe an issue lurking. As to what hard to say with no more symptoms.

An app_info will allow 100% useage running two WUs per GPU. It can alsohide issues such as you described, so another dilema sometimes. Below is an app_info that will put two WU per gpu on a card. Note the cmd line frequency value. Thats a low 10 (old default was 30, new default is 60). The 7970s respond quickly switching to the display screen to service it, so a low value usually works ok. If the screen lags horribly, step up the value in steps of 5 until you are happy with screen response - should be ok, but step up slowly like that if issues.

Dont forget to clear cache before using the app_info.xml, and to restart BAM after inserting it into the Milkyway program directory. Use Notepad to create the app_info.xml to prevent hidden charactors being inserted making it un-useable.

<app_info>
<app>
<name>milkyway</name>
</app>
<file_info>
<name>milkyway_separation_1.02_windows_x86_64__opencl_amd_ati.exe</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>
<app_version>
<app_name>milkyway</app_name>
<version_num>102</version_num>
<flops>1.0e11</flops>
<avg_ncpus>0.05</avg_ncpus>
<max_ncpus>1</max_ncpus>
<plan_class>ati14ati</plan_class>
<coproc>
<type>ATI</type>
<count>0.5</count>
</coproc>
<cmdline>--gpu-target-frequency 10 --gpu-disable-checkpointing</cmdline>
<file_ref>
<file_name>milkyway_separation_1.02_windows_x86_64__opencl_amd_ati.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
</app_info>

Regards
Zy
35) Message boards : Number crunching : 79XX Dont Run II (Message 53449)
Posted 26 Feb 2012 by Zydor
Post:
For sure, power draw never been in doubt .... but if a user has a lower voltage card, then issues will occur trying to go 1125 (originally hoping CCC will do it) without a voltage increase. If they are not aware of that, lots of fruitless searching for an answer that does not exist will occur, as their perception will be one of puzzlement that CCC is not working - it is, just that they are the lucky ones with a more overclockable card, and if on the lower voltage, its going nowhere to 1125 or beyond without voltage increases

Unless they understand the actual card voltage setup, which the thread gives them.

Regards
Zy
36) Message boards : Number crunching : Updates not happening automatically (Message 53432)
Posted 26 Feb 2012 by Zydor
Post:
For years we've been asking for more control over the number of WUs that can be downloaded by particular projects. Instead, 7.x gives us less control than ever. Why take control away from the users and projects? What's the real agenda driving these changes?


My guess - and its only that, I have no factual basis for saying it, just a gut instinct.... I suspect its all about reducing cache levels, as many held caches are more than crazy - compounded by continual runaway machines dumping out large caches.

The problem is at the server end, the database sizes rise exponentially when large caches are held, with one of two results - either it slows down horribly, or gets worse as it cant fit the database(s) in memory. It was the latter that was the issue here. Tracking each issued WU takes a lot of time and space, and if too many out there, it can bring down a server that has less clout than most.

Lots of easy knee jerk resonses to that of course, but life is different if sitting at the server end as an admin. Lots of other solutions around to all that, but I have a feeling its a rose tinted view from this end, compared to when at the server end in the middle of the mire :)

Regards
Zy
37) Message boards : Number crunching : Updates not happening automatically (Message 53422)
Posted 25 Feb 2012 by Zydor
Post:
Its a big change ..... brave new world of OpenCL for all, with added flavour of VM's .... takes time I guess, it is still Alpha.

Problem is the number of Projects needing that OpenCL flavour inside BOINC is growing, so the pressure is on ..... *turn the sound up & pass the popcorn*, it aint over yet :)

Regards
Zy
38) Message boards : Number crunching : Updates not happening automatically (Message 53414)
Posted 25 Feb 2012 by Zydor
Post:
Funny, I've been praying for patience lately! I guess I should accept this as an answer to my prayers!
:)

Thats doomed the pair of us ..... Murphy will descend like bees to a honey pot :)

Regards
Zy
39) Message boards : Number crunching : Updates not happening automatically (Message 53408)
Posted 24 Feb 2012 by Zydor
Post:
They made changes to updating/refills for 7.X.X, and has resulted in different behaviour than (generally) in 6.X.X.

Basicly, with 7.X.X perceptions need to shift a little. Refills are more strictly controlled by the software, and less scope for manual downloads accumulating large caches. MW has its own limiter of course - 40 per GPU - but that still is caught under the whole overarching refill mechanism in 7.X.X

It will tend to run down cache (not always, just beaware it can leave it somewhat late!) until the last minute, and then refill. So, at the least sit back and let it do it thing, dont apply expectations of 6.X.X behaviour, it will not happen. The other change behaviourily, is - by in large - it now tends to download one or two WU at a time, not a big wack of them at once (MWs are short so you get lots of those in one go). Again, dont try to fight it (you'll lose rofl), let it do its thing. For example a dry machine on startup left overnight is rewarded with a full cache when you get up :)

There are still problems with aspects of the work fetch, but take on board the two behavioural changes above, as they are the most misunderstood, and nothing is wrong as such, the software is working "as designed" - just that its designed differently in V7.X.X

Regards
Zy
40) Message boards : Number crunching : 79XX Dont Run II (Message 53400)
Posted 24 Feb 2012 by Zydor
Post:
The tests and final pointer to the voltages start from post number 117, the posts prior to that need reading to get the full impact of whats happening.

http://forum.guru3d.com/showpost.php?p=4221583&postcount=117

Regards
Zy


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