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Mr P Hucker
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Message 75438 - Posted: 6 Jun 2023, 0:34:42 UTC

Getting fed up of £86 1000W PSUs for my GPUs lasting only 6 months, I bought a couple of 1300W ones, second hand, for only £14 each.  Ex-HP server power supplies.  A bit of tinkering required, I had to find the power up pins for example, TWO of them needed grounded to boot it up.  I've never seen such a crowded 3 dimensional circuit.  Every last space carefully used.

So er.... some modifications, it was too loud, and the power connector wasn't a standard IEC, because those puny Americans only have 110V, so it needs a 16A connector.  But we got you back though, you only get 940W with the lower input voltage!  HA!





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Message 75439 - Posted: 6 Jun 2023, 17:18:27 UTC - in response to Message 75438.  
Last modified: 6 Jun 2023, 17:23:04 UTC

All you had to do was buy/obtain the right cable. It's a C19 connector, which is common in data centers all around the world. it's an IEC standard.

also every American house is wired for 240V from the transformer (electric stoves/ranges/ovens, electric dryers, car chargers, etc). and almost all data centers where a server PSU like this would be used are running 208-240V supply, including NA. they're all getting the same 1300W rating. not much of a "gotcha" now is it?

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Message 75440 - Posted: 6 Jun 2023, 17:35:23 UTC - in response to Message 75439.  
Last modified: 6 Jun 2023, 17:39:18 UTC

All you had to do was buy/obtain the right cable. It's a C19 connector, which is common in data centers all around the world. it's an IEC standard.
Not one I have. I've probably got 100 of the normal 10A IEC ones kicking about. I see no point in spending money and time getting one when it doesn't actually serve any purpose. I don't need the PSU to be unpluggable, having a built in lead is fine, just like most appliances do.

also every American house is wired for 240V from the transformer (electric stoves/ranges/ovens, electric dryers, car chargers, etc).
It is, but from what I've read in various forums, most Americans don't understand electricity. And they have the wrong outlets in the wrong places, and think they need to pay an electrician just to put a new socket in. I've seen quite a number of them put in a new dedicated circuit with it's own earth leakage breaker for a domestic freezer! Now I don't have a single breaker in the house, they're all good old fuses with no nuisance trips. But those of you with breakers, the earth leakage protection is in the fusebox. You don't need countless ones scattered all over the house!

and almost all data centers where a server PSU like this would be used are running 208-240V supply, including NA. they're all getting the same 1300W rating. not much of a "gotcha" now is it?
So why does this power supply support the puny 110V option? Why do you even have 110V? It doubles the current! More copper everywhere!
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Message 75441 - Posted: 6 Jun 2023, 17:59:31 UTC
Last modified: 6 Jun 2023, 18:01:05 UTC

I'm not sure what "earth leakage protector" is supposed to mean. are you referring to GFCI or AFCI? all modern new builds have that in the main service panel (the "fuse/breaker box"), it's built into the breaker. older homes build before GFCI/AFCI was required tend to have per receptacle GFCI protection since it's easier to add a la carte at a later date by just replacing the receptacle or if they don't have space in the "fuse box" or whatever other reason.

why does the PSU offer 100-125v options? the same reason like 90% of household and consumer electronics are spec'd the same way. versatility. you can make the same exact part and sell to many markets rather than having two whole supply chains to make two different products at a higher cost to achieve the same thing. the only products that tend to remain segregated are products that use a resistive heating element, like water kettles, toasters, space heaters, hair dryers, etc.

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Message 75442 - Posted: 6 Jun 2023, 18:12:14 UTC - in response to Message 75441.  
Last modified: 6 Jun 2023, 18:13:50 UTC

I'm not sure what "earth leakage protector" is supposed to mean. are you referring to GFCI or AFCI?
How can you not know what the full title is, but know the acronyms? It's quite simple, power leaks to earth and it switches off. ELCB is hence one of the acronyms in the UK, for Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker. Another is RCD (Residual Current Device). Same thing.

all modern new builds have that in the main service panel (the "fuse/breaker box")
I hear people here calling it a "consumer unit", talk about vague.

, it's built into the breaker. older homes build before GFCI/AFCI was required tend to have per receptacle GFCI protection since it's easier to add a la carte at a later date by just replacing the receptacle or if they don't have space in the "fuse box" or whatever other reason.
Why not just add one at the main box? My parents' house has one earth breaker followed by 15 current limiting ones. Didn't stop my dad getting shocked though, only works if you get shocked to earth.

You know, before those breakers existed, grounding every single metal appliance was really daft. It provides an option to let the current go through you if you touch something live, like a damaged kettle cord, to your knee against the washing machine. Not once in my life have I ever known a wire come loose inside an appliance to make the grounded chassis be of any use.

why does the PSU offer 100-125v options? the same reason like 90% of household and consumer electronics are spec'd the same way.
But it's for servers. And you said America has 240V in server rooms. Everywhere else has it everywhere.

versatility. you can make the same exact part and sell to many markets rather than having two whole supply chains to make two different products at a higher cost to achieve the same thing. the only products that tend to remain segregated are products that use a resistive heating element, like water kettles, toasters, space heaters, hair dryers, etc.
Not true, I have an iron which works on either voltage. A simple switch puts the two elements in series or parallel.

Now if America would get with the rest of the world and use 240V, we wouldn't need to build everything dual voltage.

Anyway, I made it work, that's all that matters. Just like the German students who came over here with their own equipment with EU plugs. Easily solved, they put a screwdriver in the earth of our sockets to open the shutters, then pushed their round pins into our square holes. Similar width, so they worked fine. Surprisingly computers don't care about a lack of ground. I thought they'd need it so both were at the same level for 0V for data between each other. I've observed a very small spark (and the ability to feel it with my finger) from 80V AC (with bugger all current) between the video output of an ungrounded TV and a computer's video capture card. This was back in the days of analogue video signals.
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Message 75443 - Posted: 6 Jun 2023, 18:22:38 UTC - in response to Message 75442.  

hint, it's not just America. many other countries use 100-125V. most are in NA, but you have some in SA too, and notably Japan which is a huge electronics market and they also use 100V, even lower than NA.

and I said "almost" all data centers. not "all". there are bound to be customers across the world who run on a 100-125V supply and companies want to appeal to everyone with a single product so...

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Message 75444 - Posted: 6 Jun 2023, 18:33:11 UTC - in response to Message 75443.  
Last modified: 6 Jun 2023, 18:39:56 UTC

Most are 220-240, would you look at all that blue? Just standardise will you?

You already have 240V coming in, just change the sockets so everything is one standard 240V socket. Then you can plug anything anywhere from a table lamp to a dryer, I don't think you appreciate how easy it is over here. And you never get people running out of juice like I've seen in these forums. Two powerful computers into one outlet and it trips? Ridiculous!

And it's not a big deal, the UK changed from 5A and 15A round pin to 13A square pin sockets in the past. Now we only have one socket for everything, and the plugs all have fuses.

And since I assume your centre tap is grounded, you still never have 240V away from ground for a shock, so you'd end up safer than us.

Not sure why they don't float mains voltages to homes. Just don't ground the incoming feed, then nobody can get shocked without touching both wires. Just like on building sites.

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Message 75445 - Posted: 6 Jun 2023, 18:51:43 UTC - in response to Message 75444.  
Last modified: 6 Jun 2023, 18:56:28 UTC

I know how easy it is. just replace all the breakers with a two-pole 240V unit and boom the whole house could be 240V. but there are inherent risks to anyone who other people come to their house and doesnt just live alone with birds. or anyone that has interest in selling their home in the future. plus it's against most of the electrical codes to do something like that. most people actively choose to not have fire/safety hazards around their house, not that they don't know how. plus many receptacles are interconnected on the same circuit, so it's harder to change just "one" outlet to 240V unless it happened to be a standalone circuit which is pretty rare here. usually things tend to be segregated by "room" or by "lights" and "outles" for a room. but there's not a clear standard for that and it's very common to have multiple rooms linked together. that's why in most cases if you just want ONE 240V plug somewhere, it's much easier to just run a new line rather than mucking around with the whole circuit.

for whatever reason, the NA region (and several others as shown in your map) have decided that shock risks will always present no matter what rules and regulations or safety devices are put in place, and in the event of exposure to said risk, they'd rather their citizens are exposed to 120V than 240V.

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Message 75446 - Posted: 6 Jun 2023, 19:09:38 UTC - in response to Message 75445.  

I know how easy it is. just replace all the breakers with a two-pole 240V unit and boom the whole house could be 240V.
I dread to think how your breakers work without some kind of computer inside them. They have to look at the current on both lives and the neutral then do a calculation. How is that even possible? You could have 240V loads on there, and different 110V loads on each side. How does it cope with all that? You could have zero neutral current if it's just 240V loads, or evened out 120V loads.

but there are inherent risks to anyone who other people come to their house and doesnt just live alone with birds.
What risk? You already have 240V outlets. Just remove all the 120V ones and get appliances with 240V plugs on them. You're not changing anything, you're just gradually stopping using one part of it.

or anyone that has interest in selling their home in the future. plus it's against most of the electrical codes to do something like that.
Why do Americans have this obsession with codes? It's YOUR house!

most people actively choose to not have fire/safety hazards around their house, not that they don't know how.
I've been shocked about 15 times in my life, by 240V, it isn't dangerous. And there's no fire hazards here, everything has a fuse equal to or less than the wire it's feeding. Unlike in America, where your outlet might be 16 amps, but your table lamp has a 2 amp flex, and no fuse in the plug! Damage the flex, maybe squash it under furniture, the flex burns up, and so does your carpet.

plus many receptacles are interconnected on the same circuit, so it's harder to change just "one" outlet to 240V unless it happened to be a standalone circuit which is pretty rare here.
Not sure what you mean by that. AFAIK you have two lives and a neutral everywhere. Some outlets connect to the two lives, some connect to a live and a neutral.

usually things tend to be segregated by "room" or by "lights" and "outles" for a room. but there's not a clear standard for that and it's very common to have multiple rooms linked together.
That sounds rather like our old antiquated system. You're actually protecting each outlet at the breaker box and have hundreds of wires all over the house. In the UK, all the outlets (or sometimes all the downstairs outlets in a larger house) are on one 30A 240V circuit. The breaker box is much smaller and neater.

that's why in most cases if you just want ONE 240V plug somewhere, it's much easier to just run a new line rather than mucking around with the whole circuit.
And we just tap it onto the 30A cable running through the whole house.

for whatever reason, the NA region (and several others as shown in your map) have decided that shock risks will always present no matter what rules and regulations or safety devices are put in place, and in the event of exposure to said risk, they'd rather their citizens are exposed to 120V than 240V.
And as I said, it's a minority, and almost all in NA.

You mentioned Japan earlier, but I've looked around and failed to find a single device made in Japan. But I found twenty made in China. Perhaps China should invade Japan.
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Message 75447 - Posted: 6 Jun 2023, 19:39:36 UTC - in response to Message 75446.  

there are not (normally) "accessible" 240V outlets in most homes. accessible in the way that all the normal 120V outlets on every wall are. they are usually behind some large equipment like a dryer or stove, and likely have the single receptacle populated with a plug. IE some young kid couldn't easily get to it and shove a fork in it.

yes it's my house, but I consider the safety of people who might come over and want to plug something in and resale value of my house. if one were to do all kinds of uncoded work that would inevitably be flagged by the pre-sale home inspection (which happens on nearly every sale if the buyer is smart) then the chances of selling as-is are slim, and at best you'd be required to revert all your unorthodox modifications at your own cost. you don't care, but most people do.

Not sure what you mean by that. AFAIK you have two lives and a neutral everywhere. Some outlets connect to the two lives, some connect to a live and a neutral.

no we don't. if you're going to have strong opinions about this. it would benefit you to research more and know what you are even arguing. all 120V outlets are one hot, one neutral, one ground. the "neutral" is the return path back to the panel. the ground is the alternate return path in the case of a short. that way instead of energizing the metal case of a device and posing a shock risk, the short will be cleared by tripping the breaker.

just google some pictures of electrical panels here. it's clear as day how they work. no fancy electronics and the breakers work in much the same way as yours do. they just attach in the panel differently. basically the 120V phases are just split between the left and right side of the panel. along one side, each breaker position hooks into opposite phases. so a double pole breaker just hooks into both of them for 240V effective. mind numbingly simple.

basic 240V circuits here are 2 hots (out of phase 120V, think of it like +120V and -120V, the difference is 240V), and one ground. newer 240V circuits over here have 4 wires; 2x hots (+/-120), neutral, and ground. the second 120V hot line is the return path in this case. the neutral is really only used on devices that are combo 120/240 devices like stoves that have some 120V electronics like running the clock and timers and such that don't need to be on 240V.

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Message 75448 - Posted: 6 Jun 2023, 20:15:05 UTC - in response to Message 75447.  

there are not (normally) "accessible" 240V outlets in most homes. accessible in the way that all the normal 120V outlets on every wall are. they are usually behind some large equipment like a dryer or stove, and likely have the single receptacle populated with a plug.
So not very handy if you had bought one of my supplies. I can just plug it in.

And what happens when you move your dryer? I just plug it into another outlet.

IE some young kid couldn't easily get to it and shove a fork in it.
You do have shutters right?

yes it's my house, but I consider the safety of people who might come over and want to plug something in
What exactly are you saying could be done to make a socket dangerous to a stranger plugging in a device?

and resale value of my house.
Big deal, the buyer sees something they don't like and you knock off some money for an electrician to sort it. There's no point in making something ready for the next buyer if that could be 10 or 20 years from now. Just like when I fix my car I don't assume the repair has to conform to the standards of someone I might sell it to in the future, like the prat who asked me what colour the bumper was. Apparently "red" wasn't the answer he wanted.

if one were to do all kinds of uncoded work that would inevitably be flagged by the pre-sale home inspection (which happens on nearly every sale if the buyer is smart) then the chances of selling as-is are slim, and at best you'd be required to revert all your unorthodox modifications at your own cost. you don't care, but most people do.
No, I can buy a house here in need of refurbishment. Dodgy electrics, leaking pipes, wallpaper coming off, roof leaking, it still sells but for a sensible amount less - the amount needed to rectify it. In fact I'm planning on doing that in a year or two. Buying a place with a HUGE amount more land than here, and the actual house in a terrible state, and buying it for a QUARTER of the value of this house. Mortgage paid off, and a load of savings to boot. The reason it's less? Land. Silly people wanting to live in a noisy congested town instead of somewhere FIFTEEN minutes commute away.

no we don't. if you're going to have strong opinions about this. it would benefit you to research more and know what you are even arguing. all 120V outlets are one hot, one neutral, one ground. the "neutral" is the return path back to the panel. the ground is the alternate return path in the case of a short. that way instead of energizing the metal case of a device and posing a shock risk, the short will be cleared by tripping the breaker.
Well an American once showed me photos of his. Double outlets, one +120V and one -120V. Easy to swap that for a 240V. It would have been sensible to run that to all your outlets, no wiring change should you want to put 240V there. And you're nicely balancing the two halves of the phase.

And as I said before, grounding loads of cases causes more danger than safety. Go touch a live wire and nothing else. It might tickle. Now shove another part of your body against something grounded. Oops! Health and softy shot itself in the foot.

What they should have done is float the supply, which it naturally is from the transformer anyway!

just google some pictures of electrical panels here. it's clear as day how they work. no fancy electronics and the breakers work in much the same way as yours do. they just attach in the panel differently. basically the 120V phases are just split between the left and right side of the panel. along one side, each breaker position hooks into opposite phases. so a double pole breaker just hooks into both of them for 240V effective. mind numbingly simple.
So you're saying you have breakers just like ours, either for 240V, or 110V? What about the stuff like below with dual voltages in one appliance? How does the earth leakage breaker do the sums?

basic 240V circuits here are 2 hots (out of phase 120V, think of it like +120V and -120V, the difference is 240V), and one ground. newer 240V circuits over here have 4 wires; 2x hots (+/-120), neutral, and ground. the second 120V hot line is the return path in this case. the neutral is really only used on devices that are combo 120/240 devices like stoves that have some 120V electronics like running the clock and timers and such that don't need to be on 240V.
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Message 75449 - Posted: 6 Jun 2023, 20:48:15 UTC - in response to Message 75448.  
Last modified: 6 Jun 2023, 20:51:12 UTC

you still have a fundamental misunderstanding of the wiring of a standard outlet here. either you don't know what you were looking at in the pic or how it's wired was not correctly conveyed. either way, you're still wrong and need to read up some more. there is not +120 and -120 in the same outlet. that would be 240V already as I explained before. a normal outlet has one phase of 120V and a neutral which is essentially 0. if you measure between neutral and ground in most cases it will read 0V or close to it. you'd only have "+" and "-" hots in the same electrical box if you ran two circuits from opposite legs of the panel to it, but that is not in any way a normal thing. i don't know off hand if that is "wrong" or against code in any way, but I'm just saying it's not common.

a normal outlet *can* be converted to 240V as I described before. simply swap in a double pole breaker and hook the white neutral line for that circuit to the other phase of 120. it's not really "positive" or "negative". the AC waveform is just 180 degrees out of phase. each are 120V in their own right, but effectively 240V peak-peak when combined. but again as i said already, this comes with the caveat that it will turn everything on that circuit to 240V, not just one receptacle. this includes lights if your house is wired that way, and alot of light fixtures here are not designed for or rated for 240V, so that's one risk. the other risk is if unsuspecting folks (friends, guests, children, whoever) that aren't away of the totally not normal things you've done, they try to plug in something not rated for 240V and at best it fries their component, and at worst causes a fire. most people don't want to deal with that kind of thing, even if it means they can get an extra 300W of capacity from a $20 used server PSU.

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Message 75450 - Posted: 6 Jun 2023, 21:21:44 UTC - in response to Message 75449.  

you still have a fundamental misunderstanding of the wiring of a standard outlet here. either you don't know what you were looking at in the pic or how it's wired was not correctly conveyed. either way, you're still wrong and need to read up some more. there is not +120 and -120 in the same outlet. that would be 240V already as I explained before. a normal outlet has one phase of 120V and a neutral which is essentially 0. if you measure between neutral and ground in most cases it will read 0V or close to it. you'd only have "+" and "-" hots in the same electrical box if you ran two circuits from opposite legs of the panel to it, but that is not in any way a normal thing. i don't know off hand if that is "wrong" or against code in any way, but I'm just saying it's not common.
Well it's what I was referring to, what an American told me he has, and he suggested it was the normal way, and makes a lot more sense. You have -120, 0, +120 in all the circuits, and outlets either connect to 1 leg or two. On a double 120V outlet, each outlet uses 1 leg.

This is one here: https://www.thespruce.com/how-to-wire-split-outlets-1152331

Notice they explain the value of extra power in a kitchen.

a normal outlet *can* be converted to 240V as I described before. simply swap in a double pole breaker and hook the white neutral line for that circuit to the other phase of 120. it's not really "positive" or "negative". the AC waveform is just 180 degrees out of phase. each are 120V in their own right, but effectively 240V peak-peak when combined. but again as i said already, this comes with the caveat that it will turn everything on that circuit to 240V, not just one receptacle. this includes lights if your house is wired that way, and alot of light fixtures here are not designed for or rated for 240V, so that's one risk.
Not a risk, just it won't work. If you shove 240V through a 120V lightbulb, it will fail. If you leave single 120V outlets connected to 240V, you'll burn up most appliances. So not unsafe, just broken.

And actually, the light fitting would be half the current double the voltage, so run cooler.

the other risk is if unsuspecting folks (friends, guests, children, whoever) that aren't away of the totally not normal things you've done, they try to plug in something not rated for 240V and at best it fries their component, and at worst causes a fire. most people don't want to deal with that kind of thing, even if it means they can get an extra 300W of capacity from a $20 used server PSU.
But you wouldn't put 240V into a 120V outlet. Your 240V outlets are a different shape. You'd be using those so you didn't keep breaking appliances when you forgot which outlets were changed over.
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Message 75451 - Posted: 6 Jun 2023, 23:32:07 UTC - in response to Message 75450.  
Last modified: 6 Jun 2023, 23:35:44 UTC

The article you linked to is misleading. “Split outlet” does not “bring 240V” into the outlet. It simply has two 120V circuits running in parallel. No single circuit has 240V in the situation they are describing. And what they are doing by removing the tab to split the outlet for two circuits is usually done to have one of them run to a switch so that you can attach a lamp or something to a wall switch while the other outlet remains essentially powered all the time. And a lot of the time this is wired in a way where the switch is actually on the same circuit and not a separate circuit.

Having two circuits on a single duplex outlet is borderline pointless outside of very specific use cases and would almost never be wired in a normal home like that unless it was something you specifically requested of a home builder and/or electrician. And each “leg” would not necessarily be on different phases unless you requested it. If you didn’t, they very well could wire them both from the same phase and you’d never get 240V out of it.

Anyone who needs more power in one location like that would just run a dedicated 240V line. Same amount of work as trying to add a second 120V into the same box.

You should probably do more research.

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Message 75452 - Posted: 6 Jun 2023, 23:48:28 UTC - in response to Message 75451.  
Last modified: 6 Jun 2023, 23:50:11 UTC

The article you linked to is misleading. “Split outlet” does not “bring 240V” into the outlet. It simply has two 120V circuits running in parallel.
And why would you choose two on the same "phase"?

No single circuit has 240V in the situation they are describing.
It can do if you use the two "phases", one for each outlet.

And what they are doing by removing the tab to split the outlet for two circuits is usually done to have one of them run to a switch so that you can attach a lamp or something to a wall switch while the other outlet remains essentially powered all the time. And a lot of the time this is wired in a way where the switch is actually on the same circuit and not a separate circuit.
Or you could get into the 21st century and have switches on the outlets! Looking at American electrics is like looking at the UK in the 50s!

Having two circuits on a single duplex outlet is borderline pointless outside of very specific use cases and would almost never be wired in a normal home like that unless it was something you specifically requested of a home builder and/or electrician.
More amps? Isn't it the case you have something like 16A supplied to the double outlet, and each outlet can take 16A. So doing the above gives you 32A there.

Anyone who needs more power in one location like that would just run a dedicated 240V line. Same amount of work as trying to add a second 120V into the same box.
Or in the UK not have to do anything. The standard here is a double 240V 13A outlet, so you have 6.24kW in every place in the house. I prefer not to live in the dark ages.
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Message 75453 - Posted: 7 Jun 2023, 0:54:28 UTC - in response to Message 75452.  

The switched outlet situation is for when you have a lamp in a room far away from the entry way. Why walk all the way through a dark room to hit the switch at the outlet when you can have a switch on the wall by the entry? That seems far more 21st century. But mine personally are a combination of motion activated and controlled through voice commands in addition to the physical switch. Can be turned on or off whichever is more convenient.

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Message 75454 - Posted: 7 Jun 2023, 1:10:06 UTC - in response to Message 75453.  
Last modified: 7 Jun 2023, 1:12:52 UTC

The switched outlet situation is for when you have a lamp in a room far away from the entry way. Why walk all the way through a dark room to hit the switch at the outlet when you can have a switch on the wall by the entry?
Odd idea, using table lamps to light a room. Those are for mood lighting or beside you to read/knit. To see your way, most people have lights on the ceiling out of the way, they already have switches on the wall.

That seems far more 21st century. But mine personally are a combination of motion activated and controlled through voice commands in addition to the physical switch. Can be turned on or off whichever is more convenient.
I never bothered with voice commands, although I do have a Google Home I could interface them with. I have motion sensors for some, and some with timers with a manual override. Timers for parrots to give them a sensible amount of daylight, especially when I'm on holiday. Or in the case of two shreaking Amazons, to shut them up at night when they would annoy neighbours. I have precisely zero normal lights with just a plain switch.

The GPU power system has still not exploded. Gonna have a go at fixing up to 5 GPUs to add to the mix tomorrow. They currently do not function at all, or only for a couple of minutes. Stripping them apart, cleaning them, replacing heatsink gunk. Works wonders for some reason. I'll need the 2nd power supply though, and I've run out of 5W resistors for the fan speed.
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Message 75455 - Posted: 7 Jun 2023, 13:59:02 UTC - in response to Message 75447.  

all 120V outlets are one hot, one neutral, one ground. the "neutral" is the return path back to the panel. (...) basic 240V circuits here are 2 hots (out of phase 120V, think of it like +120V and -120V, the difference is 240V), and one ground. newer 240V circuits over here have 4 wires; 2x hots (+/-120), neutral, and ground. the second 120V hot line is the return path in this case. the neutral is really only used on devices that are combo 120/240 devices like stoves that have some 120V electronics like running the clock and timers and such that don't need to be on 240V.
Sounds the same as in Europe, except that we have 230V on the hot wire and 3 phases, which can be used as 400V (3x hot, 1 neutral, 1 ground). Sure, we can plug more into our 230V, 16A outlets, but not sure what this rant is all about. It's pointless expecting all 120V countries to switch to 230V or people to change their electric installations to something non-standard in their country. Just imagine how much older electric devices would have to be replaced, not to mention, that there is not ONE 230V standard, there are several in that range just in Europe with different outlets/plugs and other specifications (UK has 240V, other countries in Europe have 220V, in theory whole Europe should be 230V, but it's defined as 195-245V IIRC, so everyone simply has what they had in the past except where they installed new transformers) and there are even more standards for that voltage range around the world. Nowadays most devices have electronic power supplies which accept usually anything between 90-265V 50/60Hz or so, so it doesn't matter with what you feed them except of special cases like such server PSUs. Even most ATX PSUs don't care if they get 120V or 230V, just the efficiency is a bit lower if run on 120V, max output is usually the same.
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Message 75456 - Posted: 7 Jun 2023, 19:14:08 UTC - in response to Message 75455.  

Sounds the same as in Europe, except that we have 230V on the hot wire and 3 phases, which can be used as 400V (3x hot, 1 neutral, 1 ground). Sure, we can plug more into our 230V, 16A outlets, but not sure what this rant is all about. It's pointless expecting all 120V countries to switch to 230V or people to change their electric installations to something non-standard in their country.
But in the USA they already have 240V, so they could just have 240V sockets everywhere and make them different (or whatever dryers plug into now), and keep some 120V sockets too. If I wired my house in America, I'd have each socket plate have one of each.

Just imagine how much older electric devices would have to be replaced, not to mention, that there is not ONE 230V standard, there are several in that range just in Europe with different outlets/plugs and other specifications (UK has 240V, other countries in Europe have 220V, in theory whole Europe should be 230V, but it's defined as 195-245V IIRC,
240V in the UK, 220V in most of Europe, officially called 230V +/- 10% over Europe and the UK. Appliances take varying ranges but always 220-240. 230 + 10% is 253, and I've had it up to 256, and nothing broke.

so everyone simply has what they had in the past except where they installed new transformers) and there are even more standards for that voltage range around the world. Nowadays most devices have electronic power supplies which accept usually anything between 90-265V 50/60Hz or so, so it doesn't matter with what you feed them except of special cases like such server PSUs. Even most ATX PSUs don't care if they get 120V or 230V, just the efficiency is a bit lower if run on 120V, max output is usually the same.
The efficiency is apparently a lot lower on PC PSUs, not sure why.

My main gripe is the lack of power. They have I believe 16A at 120V for each outlet, which is pitiful. It's like us being limited to 8 amps on a socket! Try boiling a kettle on that! And there was someone in one of these forums kept tripping his US breaker just because he plugged two powerful PCs into one outlet!

On the subject of server supplies, I just bought more! Two of 2400W (!) supplies for £13 each! I'm gonna run them all in parallel, so nothing is working very hard, and I can add oodles of GPUs and have a nice stable high voltage.
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Message 75457 - Posted: 7 Jun 2023, 19:18:31 UTC
Last modified: 7 Jun 2023, 19:19:57 UTC

I do wish this forum would let me choose my own spacing. It's deliberately removing the double space after the fullstop/period. Why would it do that? Why shove their beliefs onto me? Somebody has actually taken the time to code something to detect a double space and delete it.

So I looked it up and I'm right, two spaces makes it easier to read, you can tell when it's a new sentence far easier:

https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/one-space-or-two-spaces-after-a-full-stop-scientists-have-finally-found-the-answer-a8337646.html

First, they put the students in front of computers and dictated a short paragraph, to see how many spaces they naturally used. Turns out, 21 of the 60 were “two spacers” and the rest typed with close-spaced sentences that would have horrified the Founding Fathers of the US.

The researchers then clamped each student’s head into place and used an Eyelink 1000 to record where they looked as they silently read 20 paragraphs. The paragraphs were written in various styles: one spaced, two spaced and strange combinations like two spaces after commas, but only one after periods. And vice versa, too.

And the verdict was: two spaces after the period is better. It makes reading slightly easier.
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