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Cluster Physik
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Message 9229 - Posted: 26 Jan 2009 | 21:40:11 UTC
Last modified: 26 Jan 2009 | 22:09:44 UTC

As I already mentioned in some other posts, I am working on an implementation of the MW application on ATI graphics hardware (RV670 and up, that means HD38x0, HD4670?? and HD48x0). It is not finished yet (still some scheduling problems as BOINC only supports CUDA atm), but it calculates some results that are in line with the requirements (at least when running offline, have to ask Travis for this ones).

But I guess you want to know how fast it is! So without further fuss here is a screenshot for you (done on a PhenomII 940BE with a Radeon HD4870):



That's something I would call fast!

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Message 9232 - Posted: 26 Jan 2009 | 22:12:50 UTC - in response to Message 9229.

Holy mother of moo moo's... 8seconds per WU!!

Great to see some people can develop such an application on a GPU (not the easiest of things!) Just a shame that the BOINC dev's have decided to cast ATI to one side and adopt only CUDA is all i can say.

Well done, keep it up :)

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Message 9233 - Posted: 26 Jan 2009 | 22:35:23 UTC - in response to Message 9229.

I agree, excellent work!!

I know nvidia cards aren't as fast as ATI for this kind of work but when you have completed the ATI app would you consider a CUDA app?

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Message 9235 - Posted: 26 Jan 2009 | 22:44:38 UTC

I've just had a go at knocking out my first GPU WU which recently completed giving me nearly 4,000 credits.

I was very impressed, but much more so with the fact that all the while my laptop was churning out 2 MW WUs every 8 minutes or so, at the same time.

I knew VM would eventually let me squeeze out more.

But this is all nothing compared to how I now have an optimized signature with 6 images and 5 links. Who can beat that ? :P


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Message 9244 - Posted: 27 Jan 2009 | 1:53:28 UTC - in response to Message 9235.

I've just had a go at knocking out my first GPU WU which recently completed giving me nearly 4,000 credits.

I was very impressed, but much more so with the fact that all the while my laptop was churning out 2 MW WUs every 8 minutes or so, at the same time.

I knew VM would eventually let me squeeze out more.

But this is all nothing compared to how I now have an optimized signature with 6 images and 5 links. Who can beat that ? :P

Travis, please transfer those 4,000 credits to my account. That beats all.
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Message 9275 - Posted: 27 Jan 2009 | 21:40:42 UTC

Now there is the making of a conundrum ... which card to get ... ATI so you can do Milky Way or Nvida so you can do SaH and / or GPU Grid?

Or different cards for different systems ... :)

Just a side note, it is possible that GPU Grid got the CPU load issue under control, at least at first blush ... I have one task in flight right now with 1% tops CPU load ... over 10% done in two hours and just over a minute of CPU time ...
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Message 9276 - Posted: 27 Jan 2009 | 21:41:23 UTC - in response to Message 9229.

w00t, sign me up! Just been waiting to get my 4870 1GB rolling. I was waiting on AI because they're working on an official app last I heard, but Milkyway will work too! :-D
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Message 9290 - Posted: 28 Jan 2009 | 5:50:07 UTC - in response to Message 9229.
Last modified: 28 Jan 2009 | 5:51:13 UTC

That's really crazy. Now I wish I had an ATI card...
But:
Does this break the credit limit barrier of 108? Wonder if.
Otherwise it's only another method to crunch more WUs without getting more credits from it.
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Message 9291 - Posted: 28 Jan 2009 | 7:20:09 UTC - in response to Message 9290.

Otherwise it's only another method to crunch more WUs without getting more credits from it.

You mean, like work without pay?


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Message 9294 - Posted: 28 Jan 2009 | 10:53:41 UTC - in response to Message 9291.

Otherwise it's only another method to crunch more WUs without getting more credits from it.

You mean, like work without pay?


Not without pay, but close to it!
With the current limits (especially the 300WU limit per core), you get only about 320 credits/day on that system with the GPU app *lol*

If it is really going to work, Travis has to do something on this.

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Message 9296 - Posted: 28 Jan 2009 | 11:53:37 UTC - in response to Message 9294.
Last modified: 28 Jan 2009 | 11:54:00 UTC

Not without pay, but close to it!


Gulp! I can't image anyone providing computer resource to a BOINC project like this and getting almost negligible credit results in return.
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Message 9299 - Posted: 28 Jan 2009 | 13:37:04 UTC - in response to Message 9296.
Last modified: 28 Jan 2009 | 13:56:13 UTC

Not without pay, but close to it!


Gulp! I can't image anyone providing computer resource to a BOINC project like this and getting almost negligible credit results in return.


Just think of it as a small fan-heater that supplies 8k+ MW units/day when its not needed as a graphics card.

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Message 9310 - Posted: 28 Jan 2009 | 20:36:14 UTC
Last modified: 28 Jan 2009 | 20:47:05 UTC

If someone has thought, the screenshot may be a fake, there is a video of the running app.

I've implemented a solution to the scheduling problem (at least for Windows) that seems to be working on that specific machine. It is able to calculate several WUs at once, but that doesn't raise the throughput of the app, so calculating 4 WUs at the same time on a quadcore isn't faster than one after another. It uses up one core independent on the number of concurrent WUs.
In principle it works like a small scheduler that switches between the WUs 20 times a second (HD4870, 6 times a second on a HD3850). The video shows that GPU-Z is somehow incompatible with this approach as one experiences severe lags or short freezes of the system after it is started.

Thanks Emploi for that video!

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Message 9311 - Posted: 28 Jan 2009 | 21:19:46 UTC - in response to Message 9310.

If someone has thought, the screenshot may be a fake, there is a video of the running app.

I've implemented a solution to the scheduling problem (at least for Windows) that seems to be working on that specific machine. It is able to calculate several WUs at once, but that doesn't raise the throughput of the app, so calculating 4 WUs at the same time on a quadcore isn't faster than one after another. It uses up one core independent on the number of concurrent WUs.
In principle it works like a small scheduler that switches between the WUs 20 times a second (HD4870, 6 times a second on a HD3850). The video shows that GPU-Z is somehow incompatible with this approach as one experiences severe lags or short freezes of the system after it is started.

Thanks Emploi for that video!



Jeeeeeezzzz... And i thought you mean't 1 result every 10 or so seconds! But 4!! Wohay, why the hell did i get Nvidia! :P

Great app!

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Message 9319 - Posted: 28 Jan 2009 | 22:38:17 UTC - in response to Message 9311.

Jeeeeeezzzz... And i thought you mean't 1 result every 10 or so seconds! But 4!! Wohay, why the hell did i get Nvidia! :P

Great app!

It's 4 WUs every 35 to 40 seconds or so. It is effectively every 9 seconds a WU.

If you lower the resource share (calculate some other projects in parallel), the app will calculate less MW-WUs in parallel (you can run other projects in parallel), but the absolute troughput will stay the same (1 WU per 9 seconds).

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Message 9338 - Posted: 29 Jan 2009 | 8:08:04 UTC - in response to Message 9276.

w00t, sign me up! Just been waiting to get my 4870 1GB rolling. I was waiting on AI because they're working on an official app last I heard, but Milkyway will work too! :-D


I have an ATI Radeon X1900 in my Mac. Two questions.

1) "...that means HD38x0, HD4670?? and HD48x0" What the heck does that mean? Which cards/chips are we talking about?

2) Will this app work on Macs?
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Message 9340 - Posted: 29 Jan 2009 | 8:54:22 UTC - in response to Message 9338.

Two questions.

1) "...that means HD38x0, HD4670?? and HD48x0" What the heck does that mean? Which cards/chips are we talking about?

2) Will this app work on Macs?

1. Consider the x as a wildcard. It runs on RV670 and RV770 class GPUs (and anything newer supporting double precision, so it's forward compatible). That are HD 3850, HD3870, HD4850 and HD 4870 (most probably HD4830 too). As for the RV730 (HD4670 and HD4650) there is some contradicting information. It is tested not to run with the current driver, but this may or may not change with a newer driver revision.
2. Macs are not supported (you can't even download a driver for the newer cards from AMD, so I suppose they wouldn't run). But there is potential support for Linux (not implemented yet).

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Message 9341 - Posted: 29 Jan 2009 | 8:54:38 UTC - in response to Message 9338.

[quote]

I have an ATI Radeon X1900 in my Mac. Two questions.

1) "...that means HD38x0, HD4670?? and HD48x0" What the heck does that mean? Which cards/chips are we talking about?

2) Will this app work on Macs?


your X1900 will not work. you need at least a card with the RV670 chip (3850, 3870) or with RV770 chip (4830, 4850, 4870).
In principle all ATIs starting from the RV670 should work, but sometimes the double precision is locked by either the bios or driver (4670 refused to work)

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Message 9372 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 0:03:39 UTC

8 tasks on 1 gpu ;)

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=nnsW-zB95Is (new video)

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Message 9380 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 1:04:33 UTC - in response to Message 9372.

Is there any way to get the application now, or is it just open to Planet 3DNow members?
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Message 9394 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 2:20:27 UTC
Last modified: 30 Jan 2009 | 2:28:41 UTC

No, it's here: http://www.planet3dnow.de/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3850506&postcount=762 click: "die neue Version (V3)"

And report (Feedback) in this thread http://www.planet3dnow.de/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=353616 please ;) (also in English)

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Message 9398 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 2:28:11 UTC - in response to Message 9394.

No, it's here: http://www.planet3dnow.de/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3850506&postcount=762 click: "die neue Version (V3)"

And report in this thread http://www.planet3dnow.de/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=353616 please ;) (also in English)

Heh, that was quick. And of course, I can't actually use the application until Saturday... I'll keep an eye on this thread, and start testing as soon as I can.
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Message 9400 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 2:33:16 UTC - in response to Message 9398.
Last modified: 30 Jan 2009 | 2:35:47 UTC

...
Heh, that was quick. ..


Pure coincidence. Good Night... @03:32 ... in Germany...

Cluster Physik
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Message 9401 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 2:56:33 UTC - in response to Message 9380.
Last modified: 30 Jan 2009 | 3:00:00 UTC

Is there any way to get the application now, or is it just open to Planet 3DNow members?

If you browse our forum, you will find it. It's not in a somehow closed forum where you have to login or even have to be member of the team. You will find it also as a guest and now even easier as Emploi posted the link ;)


But it would be helpful if you could read some German, as there are instructions in that thread (you may need to edit the included app_info.xml). It is still a test version (think of it as an alpha version or technology demonstrator, it not a release candidate yet) and some things are simply not working in the moment. I'm in contact with Travis about it as well.
My plan is to give the app including the code to the project when it is working as desired and can be distributed as the stock GPU application of Milkyway.

And if you are interested in your credit standings, you better not run this app with the current credit and WU limits. A quad core with a HD4870 gets only about 330 credits a day, a dual core only 165 credits or so (as the number of WUs you get scales with the number of your cores, even if the calculation speed does not depend on them). It is just the pure enthusiasm that let one lone guy run that app, not the credits. Furthermore we simply need to test it, so I'm really thankful for that (as I don't have a compatible card).

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Message 9404 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 3:42:25 UTC - in response to Message 9401.

Is there any way to get the application now, or is it just open to Planet 3DNow members?

If you browse our forum, you will find it. It's not in a somehow closed forum where you have to login or even have to be member of the team. You will find it also as a guest and now even easier as Emploi posted the link ;)


But it would be helpful if you could read some German, as there are instructions in that thread (you may need to edit the included app_info.xml). It is still a test version (think of it as an alpha version or technology demonstrator, it not a release candidate yet) and some things are simply not working in the moment. I'm in contact with Travis about it as well.
My plan is to give the app including the code to the project when it is working as desired and can be distributed as the stock GPU application of Milkyway.

And if you are interested in your credit standings, you better not run this app with the current credit and WU limits. A quad core with a HD4870 gets only about 330 credits a day, a dual core only 165 credits or so (as the number of WUs you get scales with the number of your cores, even if the calculation speed does not depend on them). It is just the pure enthusiasm that let one lone guy run that app, not the credits. Furthermore we simply need to test it, so I'm really thankful for that (as I don't have a compatible card).

Understood. I know it's just for testing, but it also helps to heat up the room here. :-P The only thing is I don't speak any German, but I've tweaked plenty of app_info.xml files before, so I can get it running. Is it fine if I were to just report anything I find here, or should I still get an account on Planet 3DNow's forums?
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Message 9408 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 6:14:51 UTC - in response to Message 9404.
Last modified: 30 Jan 2009 | 6:18:03 UTC

Understood. I know it's just for testing, but it also helps to heat up the room here. :-P The only thing is I don't speak any German, but I've tweaked plenty of app_info.xml files before, so I can get it running. Is it fine if I were to just report anything I find here, or should I still get an account on Planet 3DNow's forums?

I guess it does not matter too much, you can also ask here.

For starters, the content of the app_info.xml does not only decide if it runs or not, but also how it runs. With the values avg_ncpus and max_ncpus and the ncpu value of your cc_config.xml you can control (actually together with the resource share, if you run other projects at the same time) how much MW-WUs run concurrently. It will use one core, no matter how many WUs are calculated in parallel. Running two at once could give a slightly better throughput (think about saving 0.2 seconds per WU or so), running more could give diminishing returns. Especially if you set the avg_ncpus value very low, it may become slower. I would suggest setting the ncpu value of your cc_config.xml to your actual numbers of cores +1, set avg_ncpu and max_ncpu both to one and then chose the resource share of milkyway that way, that 2 WUs run concurrently.

Example: Quadcore, ncpu in cc_config.xml set to 5 (calculates then 5 WUs in total parallel) and MW resource share to 2/5 = 40%. Milkyway will use then effectively one core and three are left for other things and it calculates 2 MW-WUs in parallel.

You can also test a very low resource share for MW and setting the avg_ncpus in the app_info.xml to a low value (like 0.25). The slower the card, the lower you can set this before loosing too much performance. 0.2 should be the absolute minimum for a HD4870, a HD3850 may run also with 0.1 quite well. These values get really interesting if/when I release the CPU during the computation.

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Message 9417 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 14:29:46 UTC - in response to Message 9408.

Understood. I know it's just for testing, but it also helps to heat up the room here. :-P The only thing is I don't speak any German, but I've tweaked plenty of app_info.xml files before, so I can get it running. Is it fine if I were to just report anything I find here, or should I still get an account on Planet 3DNow's forums?

I guess it does not matter too much, you can also ask here.

For starters, the content of the app_info.xml does not only decide if it runs or not, but also how it runs. With the values avg_ncpus and max_ncpus and the ncpu value of your cc_config.xml you can control (actually together with the resource share, if you run other projects at the same time) how much MW-WUs run concurrently. It will use one core, no matter how many WUs are calculated in parallel. Running two at once could give a slightly better throughput (think about saving 0.2 seconds per WU or so), running more could give diminishing returns. Especially if you set the avg_ncpus value very low, it may become slower. I would suggest setting the ncpu value of your cc_config.xml to your actual numbers of cores +1, set avg_ncpu and max_ncpu both to one and then chose the resource share of milkyway that way, that 2 WUs run concurrently.

Example: Quadcore, ncpu in cc_config.xml set to 5 (calculates then 5 WUs in total parallel) and MW resource share to 2/5 = 40%. Milkyway will use then effectively one core and three are left for other things and it calculates 2 MW-WUs in parallel.

You can also test a very low resource share for MW and setting the avg_ncpus in the app_info.xml to a low value (like 0.25). The slower the card, the lower you can set this before loosing too much performance. 0.2 should be the absolute minimum for a HD4870, a HD3850 may run also with 0.1 quite well. These values get really interesting if/when I release the CPU during the computation.

All right, sounds cool. Why I can't run the application right now is I blew a fuse in the power supply (not from overcurrent, it was stupidity on my part), and I'll have a new one for Saturday (tomorrow). It is indeed a quad-core: an overclocked Q6600 to be exact. So I'll try the values you suggested once that's back up.
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Message 9432 - Posted: 31 Jan 2009 | 10:34:20 UTC

Tested GPU app on HD3870.
Performance is far superior to any CPU, no doubt.

I've notice that some WUs are "not compatible, falling back to a somewhat slow CPU code."

For example nm_s79, nm_s86 are run on GPU but nm_s20 or nm_s21 are run on CPU.
It is a known issue or some types of WUs can't be completed on a GPU at all?
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Message 9434 - Posted: 31 Jan 2009 | 11:40:17 UTC - in response to Message 9432.
Last modified: 31 Jan 2009 | 12:10:23 UTC

Tested GPU app on HD3870.
Performance is far superior to any CPU, no doubt.

I've notice that some WUs are "not compatible, falling back to a somewhat slow CPU code."

For example nm_s79, nm_s86 are run on GPU but nm_s20 or nm_s21 are run on CPU.
It is a known issue or some types of WUs can't be completed on a GPU at all?

That's what I'm working on. I've already said some things are simply not working, yet.
Do you remember the news about the new WUs with two streams in it? They can't be calculated on the GPU in the moment. The flop counting for this type of WUs is also wrong. If I find some time I will extend the GPU code a bit over the weekend. But as you have seen, nothing terrible happens, it just gets slower when the app falls back to the CPU. I'm quite happy that it works like intended. I had no idea that a new type of WU would be introduced, so I'm glad I prepared for that ;)

Could you please post a link to your machine (or one or two results) with a short description of your settings (resurce share of MW, changes to the app_info.xml or cc_config.xml)? It should take a bit less than 30 seconds per WU on a 3870, right?

Edit:
Ahh, found it here. 25 seconds for a 3870 is okay. The difference to the 9.x seconds of the HD4870 corresponds roughly to the difference in the number of stream processors for both GPUs. The shader power was raised a factor of 2.5 between the generations (besides some other tweaks).
Have you played around a bit with the settings in the app_info.xml, cc_config.xml and the resource share?

By the way, it is not a fair comparison, but a HD4870 here at Milkyway is doing more double precision operations per second than a GTX280 is doing single precision operations with the CUDA application of SETI.

Edit2:
I see you have updated the client from 5.10.30 to 6.6.3 before running the GPU app. This should have been unnecessary as the GPU stuff in there is only for nvidia cards and is not used at all.

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Message 9436 - Posted: 31 Jan 2009 | 12:32:29 UTC - in response to Message 9434.

Have you played around a bit with the settings in the app_info.xml, cc_config.xml and the resource share?

I see you have updated the client from 5.10.30 to 6.6.3 before running the GPU app. This should have been unnecessary as the GPU stuff in there is only for nvidia cards and is not used at all.

Thanks for your comments.

Yes, I've played with app_info.xml, cc_config.xml.
Since there is no way to split computing to 4 CPU tasks and n GPU tasks (none that I'm aware of), I have settled to ncpus=5 and put both avg_ncpus and max_ncpus to 1. This way GPU is fequently idle so setting avg_ncpus=0.5 will make better change for GPU to take action but may slow down CPU dealing with too many tasks. No exact measurement in CPU performance was done when Q9550 is doing 4 or 8 tasks at once.
Once your GPU app is ready to other WU types, it would make more sense to play with settings and resource share in order to make GPU doing MW and let CPUs on other projects.

I'm using rather outdated 5.10.30 BOINC Studio core since it has backup project(s) ability. It is still left on my SSD with original projects configuration.
There is nothing really important/interesting in 6.x to upgrade dozens of hosts (no multithreading project apps available for example) and GPU support is far from bug free.
6.6.3 is a fresh install with only MW attached to play with. I may revert back to BS 5.10.30 completely.
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Message 9443 - Posted: 31 Jan 2009 | 16:21:15 UTC
Last modified: 31 Jan 2009 | 16:22:16 UTC

Thank you for all your work on this. I must say it's good to hear AMD/ATI's cards are performing so well now, considering they've been playing catchup for a while (from what I can gather, anyway). Is the code very different from the CUDA equivalent? And would a CUDA conversion be worth it? (I heard the GTX280 is much better at double precision operations than earlier cards, but it sounds like even it is outmatched by current offerings by AMD)

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Message 9445 - Posted: 31 Jan 2009 | 16:50:42 UTC - in response to Message 9443.

Thank you for all your work on this. I must say it's good to hear AMD/ATI's cards are performing so well now, considering they've been playing catchup for a while (from what I can gather, anyway). Is the code very different from the CUDA equivalent? And would a CUDA conversion be worth it? (I heard the GTX280 is much better at double precision operations than earlier cards, but it sounds like even it is outmatched by current offerings by AMD)


Like the Intel / AMD wars the ATI and Nvidia wars have first one then the other out in front...

I am sure that if this application gets going here demonstrating the capabilities of the ATI cards that Nvidia will notice and respond in the next generation.

And if it does prove out I can still get a couple of ATI cards to go in two of my systems though I will be Nvida heavy for a bit ...

But first, we have to have the application ... :)

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Message 9465 - Posted: 31 Jan 2009 | 22:41:10 UTC - in response to Message 9443.

Is the code very different from the CUDA equivalent? And would a CUDA conversion be worth it? (I heard the GTX280 is much better at double precision operations than earlier cards, but it sounds like even it is outmatched by current offerings by AMD)

No, the general programming principle is quite similar for ATI and nvidia. There are of course some differences how to obtain maximum performance, but luckily some of them apply only to single precision (ATI cards like vectorization, which is not required for nvidia).
I really think a CUDA app would be easier to implement (their software developement kit is simply better), but with a GTX280 not able to reach the performance of a HD3850 in double precision, I don't know if it is really worth the effort. The current generation ATI hardware (RV770) has a factor 3 performance advantage over the GT200 GPUs from nvidia.

nvidia made a lot of fuss about the double precision units in the GT200 (GTX2xx cards), but frankly they are quite a design flaw from the performance point of view (at least when doing pure double precision calculations). They have 240 high clocked single precision units, but only 30 double precision units (which can do even less per clock than the single units). The result is that the performance with doubles is only 1/12 of the performance with singles.
On the other hand ATI has incorporated 160 5-issue VLIW units (doing up to five operations on singles). If you want to calculate with doubles, either two or four of the five 32bit subunits are combined. That means such a VLIW unit is able to produces one or two double results per clock (the 5th subunit can still be used for other things).

So effectively a RV770 is able to churn out between 160 and 320 double results per clock cycle (dividing the single throughput by 5, for adds actually only by 2.5), nvidia is only able to do 30. The higher clock of the nvidia shaders won't help with the massive advantage ATI has on the number of double capable units as they use the same ones for singles and doubles.

The GPU part of the MW code does close to 150 GFlop per second on a HD4870. Averaged over the whole runtime (a little bit is still calculated on the CPU and you have some overhead, like transfering data to the GPU and so on) it is more than 130 GFlop/s. The theoretical peak performance of a GTX280 is only 78 GFlop/s with doubles. I wouldn't expect more than 50 GFlop/s from a GTX280 on the MW code. So maybe a triple SLI system is as fast as a single HD4870. And a high clocked Core i7 also does already about 35 GFlop/s (~61 GFlop/s Peak at 3.8GHz).

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Message 9504 - Posted: 1 Feb 2009 | 7:05:13 UTC

Got some errors with the workunits. I made the mistake of setting the app in, then putting Milkyway wide open. About 7 tasks quit with an error before I suspended the rest. Looking in one of the reported WUs, the exit code is 0xc0000135. Googling for that returns many results for BOINC, most of which seem to say it's a missing DLL. I'm presuming this to be brook.dll. So maybe the app_info has to be tweaked so it's also copied to the slots directory? I'm not sure how to verify what files are in there to check, as BOINC deletes them too quickly for me.
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Message 9510 - Posted: 1 Feb 2009 | 9:25:39 UTC

Quick notes:

* ~20s GPU crunch times on i920@3.5 + 3850/256.
* You can feel the whole machine lagging when the GPU fires up lol. (think the problem is noted a few messages ago)
* ~450s CPU runtime? I hope there's a way of disabling the GPU part so I can run this on my other x64 box with Nvidia card...

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Message 9513 - Posted: 1 Feb 2009 | 11:31:22 UTC - in response to Message 9504.

Got some errors with the workunits. I made the mistake of setting the app in, then putting Milkyway wide open. About 7 tasks quit with an error before I suspended the rest. Looking in one of the reported WUs, the exit code is 0xc0000135. Googling for that returns many results for BOINC, most of which seem to say it's a missing DLL. I'm presuming this to be brook.dll. So maybe the app_info has to be tweaked so it's also copied to the slots directory? I'm not sure how to verify what files are in there to check, as BOINC deletes them too quickly for me.

Hmm, what have you downloaded?
The brook.dll is supplied in the zip file and also correctly set up in the also supplied app_info.xml. Just copy all 3 files to your Milkyway folder (and completely quit BOINC before). But maybe you need to download new WUs, as for the ones you already have there could be some issues with the data in the client_state.xml.

@ the guys, where it runs, had you similiar problems?

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Message 9514 - Posted: 1 Feb 2009 | 11:41:13 UTC - in response to Message 9510.

Quick notes:

* ~20s GPU crunch times on i920@3.5 + 3850/256.
* You can feel the whole machine lagging when the GPU fires up lol. (think the problem is noted a few messages ago)
* ~450s CPU runtime? I hope there's a way of disabling the GPU part so I can run this on my other x64 box with Nvidia card...

The lagging gets better with faster cards. And don't start GPU-Z! At least under Vista64 it leads to short (two second) freezes and even some crashed WUs. Have no idea why.
The CPU part is just the failsafe backup solution for the longer two-stream WUs, so it isn't the fastest version one could run ;)

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Message 9515 - Posted: 1 Feb 2009 | 12:10:08 UTC - in response to Message 9514.
Last modified: 1 Feb 2009 | 12:14:23 UTC

So where is the link to the zip file?? Sorry in reply to Message 9513
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Message 9517 - Posted: 1 Feb 2009 | 13:50:43 UTC - in response to Message 9515.

So where is the link to the zip file?? Sorry in reply to Message 9513

here
http://www.file-upload.net/download-1414247/Milkyway_0.16_GPU_SSE3_x64.zip.html

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Message 9518 - Posted: 1 Feb 2009 | 13:51:30 UTC - in response to Message 9515.

So where is the link to the zip file?? Sorry in reply to Message 9513

Reading the thread helps, it's here.
And remember, Win64 only, ATI HD38x0 or HD48x0 with Cat 8.12 or Cat 9.1 required. Application is in some kind of alpha state, expect some bugs, tweaking of app_info.xml and cc_config.xml may be required for optimal performance.
And don't be disappointed by the credits ;)

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Message 9519 - Posted: 1 Feb 2009 | 13:58:57 UTC - in response to Message 9513.

@ the guys, where it runs, had you similiar problems?

Well, I had some issues but not app related.
Running under Win 2008 with Catalyst 8.12, automatic regulation of fan speed is not working on my HD3870. It was set to ~20% which cause GPU to overheat under full load. Driver stopped responding, W2K8 was able to recover without crashing but some WUs trashed of course.

Running ATI Tray Tool and setting fan speed to 40-50% helped was good solution.
I'm able to monitor GPU load, temps and fan speed with ATT without problems.
In general, app is working just fine (with comments in Message 9432).


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Message 9521 - Posted: 1 Feb 2009 | 15:41:51 UTC - in response to Message 9518.
Last modified: 1 Feb 2009 | 16:38:26 UTC

I installed it this morning on a vista 64 i7 with ati hd 4800, and they've been cranking out fine since. the short ones are running 5 - 9 seconds; the longer apps are running just shy of 10 minutes each.

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Message 9524 - Posted: 1 Feb 2009 | 17:08:15 UTC - in response to Message 9513.

Got some errors with the workunits. I made the mistake of setting the app in, then putting Milkyway wide open. About 7 tasks quit with an error before I suspended the rest. Looking in one of the reported WUs, the exit code is 0xc0000135. Googling for that returns many results for BOINC, most of which seem to say it's a missing DLL. I'm presuming this to be brook.dll. So maybe the app_info has to be tweaked so it's also copied to the slots directory? I'm not sure how to verify what files are in there to check, as BOINC deletes them too quickly for me.

Hmm, what have you downloaded?
The brook.dll is supplied in the zip file and also correctly set up in the also supplied app_info.xml. Just copy all 3 files to your Milkyway folder (and completely quit BOINC before). But maybe you need to download new WUs, as for the ones you already have there could be some issues with the data in the client_state.xml.

@ the guys, where it runs, had you similiar problems?

The files are there, and the only thing I've tweaked in the app_info is the avg_ncpus to 1. However, could it be caused by an older version of BOINC? I'm running 6.2.19.
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Message 9526 - Posted: 1 Feb 2009 | 17:21:40 UTC - in response to Message 9510.

* ~20s GPU crunch times on i920@3.5 + 3850/256.

What just comes to my mind is that the app uses about 20 MB of the video RAM per concurrent WU (actually 10 MB plus 10 MB for every stream, so in case of two streams it will be 30 MB). With an i7 (8 virtual CPUs) and the default entries in the app_info.xml it will run 16 WUs at once if you are only connected to MW.
16 * 20MB = 320MB, what is more than what you have on your card. Have you tested what happens in that case? It would have to be exclusively the short WUs, as the long (multi stream) ones are calculated on the CPU until I extend the app. In the moment I don't test how much video RAM ist still free before I allocate it. There is no error checking for the case something goes wrong. I have not thought of the 256MB variants and 512MB are enough for any sensible amount of concurrent WUs, but it would be interesting to see what happens, just in case.

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Message 9527 - Posted: 1 Feb 2009 | 17:28:44 UTC - in response to Message 9524.
Last modified: 1 Feb 2009 | 17:29:00 UTC

The files are there, and the only thing I've tweaked in the app_info is the avg_ncpus to 1. However, could it be caused by an older version of BOINC? I'm running 6.2.19.

You may try to delete the line with <api_version> in the app_info.xml, but actually it should even run with the old 5.x.x clients. Remember that you have to stop BOINC also for editing the app_info.xml.

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Message 9528 - Posted: 1 Feb 2009 | 17:40:46 UTC - in response to Message 9524.
Last modified: 1 Feb 2009 | 17:40:55 UTC

The files are there, and the only thing I've tweaked in the app_info is the avg_ncpus to 1. However, could it be caused by an older version of BOINC? I'm running 6.2.19.

It runs on 5.10.30 as well.
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Message 9529 - Posted: 1 Feb 2009 | 17:41:28 UTC - in response to Message 9527.
Last modified: 1 Feb 2009 | 17:44:44 UTC

The files are there, and the only thing I've tweaked in the app_info is the avg_ncpus to 1. However, could it be caused by an older version of BOINC? I'm running 6.2.19.

You may try to delete the line with <api_version> in the app_info.xml, but actually it should even run with the old 5.x.x clients. Remember that you have to stop BOINC also for editing the app_info.xml.

Yes, I know I have to stop BOINC. I'll try deleting the API version line, and try again.

EDIT: Same result. The hosts tasks are here if you want to look over them.
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Message 9530 - Posted: 1 Feb 2009 | 17:46:46 UTC - in response to Message 9529.
Last modified: 1 Feb 2009 | 17:53:25 UTC

The files are there, and the only thing I've tweaked in the app_info is the avg_ncpus to 1. However, could it be caused by an older version of BOINC? I'm running 6.2.19.

You may try to delete the line with <api_version> in the app_info.xml, but actually it should even run with the old 5.x.x clients. Remember that you have to stop BOINC also for editing the app_info.xml.

Yes, I know I have to stop BOINC. I'll try deleting the API version line, and try again.

I googled a bit and it appears you may need the .NET framework installed. Thought I've unchecked that option in the compiler (it's not used either way), but who knows.

Edit: Hmm, but normally one needs the .NET framework 2.0 either way for the Catalyst driver, isn't it?

Edit2: Has anyone tried the new Cat 9.1? It shouldn't make a difference, as the CAL compiler (part of the driver) still generates the same binary code to run on the GPU.

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Message 9531 - Posted: 1 Feb 2009 | 20:09:55 UTC - in response to Message 9530.

The files are there, and the only thing I've tweaked in the app_info is the avg_ncpus to 1. However, could it be caused by an older version of BOINC? I'm running 6.2.19.

You may try to delete the line with <api_version> in the app_info.xml, but actually it should even run with the old 5.x.x clients. Remember that you have to stop BOINC also for editing the app_info.xml.

Yes, I know I have to stop BOINC. I'll try deleting the API version line, and try again.

I googled a bit and it appears you may need the .NET framework installed. Thought I've unchecked that option in the compiler (it's not used either way), but who knows.

Edit: Hmm, but normally one needs the .NET framework 2.0 either way for the Catalyst driver, isn't it?

Edit2: Has anyone tried the new Cat 9.1? It shouldn't make a difference, as the CAL compiler (part of the driver) still generates the same binary code to run on the GPU.

I don't know about .NET for Catalyst, but I'm running Windows 7 beta x64. It should have .NET already installed, same version as or later than Vista. As for drivers, no I haven't tried 9.1. 8.12 is all that's available for Win7 for now.
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Message 9532 - Posted: 1 Feb 2009 | 20:28:55 UTC - in response to Message 9531.
Last modified: 1 Feb 2009 | 20:31:00 UTC

I don't know about .NET for Catalyst, but I'm running Windows 7 beta x64. It should have .NET already installed, same version as or later than Vista. As for drivers, no I haven't tried 9.1. 8.12 is all that's available for Win7 for now.

Well, what's good for Vista (and server 2008) should be good for Win 7 (and server 2008 R2). Including drivers like Catalyst.
Win 7 should be shipped with .NET 2 (server 2008 and 2008 R2 comes with it). It has both x86 and x64 .NET 2 version in it.

Anyway, if you installed (full) Catalyst, CCC (Catalyst Control Center) needs .NET. If it's working, means you have .NET 2 working.
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Message 9538 - Posted: 2 Feb 2009 | 3:31:46 UTC - in response to Message 9526.

...I have not thought of the 256MB variants and 512MB are enough for any sensible amount of concurrent WUs, but it would be interesting to see what happens, just in case.



On my system the WUs "stalls" when more than 6 WU are run concurrently, ie the CPU and GPU usage goes to 0%. Restarting Boinc manager solves the problem for a while then it just stalls again.

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Message 9541 - Posted: 2 Feb 2009 | 4:15:59 UTC

As stated 4670 does not seem to be working this is an MSI 4670 512 MB

Seems to get compute error instantly


on this host

http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/show_host_detail.php?hostid=25888

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Message 9542 - Posted: 2 Feb 2009 | 4:23:50 UTC - in response to Message 9538.

...I have not thought of the 256MB variants and 512MB are enough for any sensible amount of concurrent WUs, but it would be interesting to see what happens, just in case.


On my system the WUs "stalls" when more than 6 WU are run concurrently, ie the CPU and GPU usage goes to 0%. Restarting Boinc manager solves the problem for a while then it just stalls again.

It appears it needs double the graphics memory I thought, about 40MB per WU. That would explain your findings.

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Message 9544 - Posted: 2 Feb 2009 | 4:31:04 UTC - in response to Message 9541.
Last modified: 2 Feb 2009 | 4:31:56 UTC

As stated 4670 does not seem to be working this is an MSI 4670 512 MB

Seems to get compute error instantly


on this host

http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/show_host_detail.php?hostid=25888

There are actually two reasons why it is not working. A HD4670 does not support double precision (only HD38x0 and HD48x0) and the app is a 64Bit application. So one needs a WinXP64, Vista64, Server 2003 x64, Server 2008 or a Windows7 installation (maybe I forgot something), but it is not running on WinXP Pro SP3.

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Message 9551 - Posted: 2 Feb 2009 | 8:55:36 UTC - in response to Message 9518.

Thank you kindly for the info and the link... Lets hope it works out maybe someone wil do an app for w32 and xseries ATI cards..
Glenn.
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Message 9649 - Posted: 4 Feb 2009 | 0:41:47 UTC

Any more suggestions on what I should do to test the GPU app? I have a Vista x64 installation I can try with to, if that might help.
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Message 9682 - Posted: 4 Feb 2009 | 22:41:19 UTC

Works perfect here on a Q6600 with HD4870 running on Vista X64. Should get the label "release candidate" imho.

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Message 9688 - Posted: 4 Feb 2009 | 23:27:33 UTC - in response to Message 9682.

Works perfect here on a Q6600 with HD4870 running on Vista X64. Should get the label "release candidate" imho.

As long the app does not handle WUs with more than one stream (still fighting some bugs of the Stream SDK to get it running) and there is no Linux variant of it, I would call it more a technology demonstrator than a release candidate.
Two further things still missing are the multi GPU Support (a single HD4870 is already that fast, maybe I should restrict it to one GPU ;) and the release of the CPU during the GPU computations.

But I think one could make a public beta, if the worst things are ironed out.

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Message 9746 - Posted: 7 Feb 2009 | 1:00:33 UTC
Last modified: 7 Feb 2009 | 1:04:47 UTC

I have the next alpha version ready, still limited to Win64 and running on ATI HD38x0 and HD48x0 cards with Catalyst driver 8.12 or 9.1. But this time it should be able to handle again all WUs flying around, also those with more than one stream. They should take about 50% longer (there is one stream more to calculate). I have squeezed the code a bit, it should need now about 0.1 seconds less for the single stream WUs ;) But there is not much left what one could get out of it performance wise. Don't expect major speed gains for the future!

Let me know how it is running for you!

Link to the latest alpha-version

Next thing to do will be more diagnostic output (GPU detection) as preparation for a major overhaul of the WU scheduling, which will hopefully support multiple GPUs afterwards and maybe also the release of the CPU during the GPU tasks. After that, I will have a look to Linux.

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Message 9827 - Posted: 7 Feb 2009 | 4:27:37 UTC - in response to Message 9519.

Running ATI Tray Tool and setting fan speed to 40-50% helped was good solution.
I'm able to monitor GPU load, temps and fan speed with ATT without problems.
In general, app is working just fine (with comments in Message 9432).

Just a short note to the GPU-Z problem also seen in the first video in this thread. It appears that not only GPU-Z but also the Catalyst control panel (if started) leads to severe lags. In case of GPU-Z it is caused by the monitoring (load, temperature, fan speed) part, the same could also apply to the CCP.

But according to Honzas comment the monitoring works flawlessly with the ATI tray tools, so maybe there is some strange thing going on here.

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Message 10070 - Posted: 8 Feb 2009 | 12:31:37 UTC

So triple 4870's are out of the question for now I see :)
I have an linux box with a 3870 and Ubuntu 64bit with Cat 9.1 set up when you get around to a linux app.

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Message 10085 - Posted: 8 Feb 2009 | 14:22:50 UTC - in response to Message 10070.

So triple 4870's are out of the question for now I see :)
I have an linux box with a 3870 and Ubuntu 64bit with Cat 9.1 set up when you get around to a linux app.

But the good thing is that a single HD4870 has almost the speed of a triple GTX280 system here at MW :D
I just imagine what quad HD4870X2 system would be capable of (if one finds an appropriate power supply). That wouldn't be pretty anymore ;)

Let's hope nvidia improves their double precision performance for their next generation, ATI won't get slower.

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Message 10204 - Posted: 9 Feb 2009 | 5:04:15 UTC - in response to Message 9746.

I have the next alpha version ready, still limited to Win64 and running on ATI HD38x0 and HD48x0 cards with Catalyst driver 8.12 or 9.1. But this time it should be able to handle again all WUs flying around, also those with more than one stream. They should take about 50% longer (there is one stream more to calculate). I have squeezed the code a bit, it should need now about 0.1 seconds less for the single stream WUs ;) But there is not much left what one could get out of it performance wise. Don't expect major speed gains for the future!

Just a quick note that it still crashes on my machine. I'm going to try and clear out at least the Milkyway tasks I have left, then see if it works on my Vista x64 installation. It's possible ATI's 8.12 drivers for Win7 don't have Stream support yet, which is my suspicion at this point.
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Message 10206 - Posted: 9 Feb 2009 | 6:40:51 UTC - in response to Message 10204.
Last modified: 9 Feb 2009 | 6:57:54 UTC

I have the next alpha version ready, still limited to Win64 and running on ATI HD38x0 and HD48x0 cards with Catalyst driver 8.12 or 9.1. But this time it should be able to handle again all WUs flying around, also those with more than one stream. They should take about 50% longer (there is one stream more to calculate). I have squeezed the code a bit, it should need now about 0.1 seconds less for the single stream WUs ;) But there is not much left what one could get out of it performance wise. Don't expect major speed gains for the future!

Just a quick note that it still crashes on my machine. I'm going to try and clear out at least the Milkyway tasks I have left, then see if it works on my Vista x64 installation. It's possible ATI's 8.12 drivers for Win7 don't have Stream support yet, which is my suspicion at this point.

Well, Vista x64 gives a better error: "No compatible GPU found!" I know I have a Radeon HD4870 1GB though, so I'm not sure what's causing this. Right now, I'm running with Cat 8.12. I'll update to Cat 9.1 and try again.

EDIT: Same result with Cat 9.1. Are you checking for a compatible GPU, and if so, how?
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Message 10209 - Posted: 9 Feb 2009 | 10:24:44 UTC - in response to Message 10206.
Last modified: 9 Feb 2009 | 10:39:19 UTC

I have the next alpha version ready, still limited to Win64 and running on ATI HD38x0 and HD48x0 cards with Catalyst driver 8.12 or 9.1. But this time it should be able to handle again all WUs flying around, also those with more than one stream. They should take about 50% longer (there is one stream more to calculate). I have squeezed the code a bit, it should need now about 0.1 seconds less for the single stream WUs ;) But there is not much left what one could get out of it performance wise. Don't expect major speed gains for the future!

Just a quick note that it still crashes on my machine. I'm going to try and clear out at least the Milkyway tasks I have left, then see if it works on my Vista x64 installation. It's possible ATI's 8.12 drivers for Win7 don't have Stream support yet, which is my suspicion at this point.

Well, Vista x64 gives a better error: "No compatible GPU found!" I know I have a Radeon HD4870 1GB though, so I'm not sure what's causing this. Right now, I'm running with Cat 8.12. I'll update to Cat 9.1 and try again.

EDIT: Same result with Cat 9.1. Are you checking for a compatible GPU, and if so, how?

Could you post the content of the stderr.txt (shown under task details) please? I have not found it in your host list (already purged?).

If "No compatible GPU found!" is the only error there, the app does not find the CAL (Compute Abstraction Layer) libraries, which are installed as part of the driver since 8.12. If the libs would be there and one has an unsupported card, it would tell you something about double precision not supported.
The error you are seeing hints at an incorrectly installed or too old driver. The alternative would be a missing brook.dll, but I guess you checked that already.

Or are you trying to run it when accessing the machine via a remote desktop connection? That is also not working, because Win uses some kind of a virtual framebuffer driver for that (you don't have the Catalyst as display driver in a remote session). You could use VNC and check "disable mirror driver".

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Message 10216 - Posted: 9 Feb 2009 | 15:07:12 UTC - in response to Message 10209.

Well, Vista x64 gives a better error: "No compatible GPU found!" I know I have a Radeon HD4870 1GB though, so I'm not sure what's causing this. Right now, I'm running with Cat 8.12. I'll update to Cat 9.1 and try again.

EDIT: Same result with Cat 9.1. Are you checking for a compatible GPU, and if so, how?

Could you post the content of the stderr.txt (shown under task details) please? I have not found it in your host list (already purged?).

If "No compatible GPU found!" is the only error there, the app does not find the CAL (Compute Abstraction Layer) libraries, which are installed as part of the driver since 8.12. If the libs would be there and one has an unsupported card, it would tell you something about double precision not supported.
The error you are seeing hints at an incorrectly installed or too old driver. The alternative would be a missing brook.dll, but I guess you checked that already.

Or are you trying to run it when accessing the machine via a remote desktop connection? That is also not working, because Win uses some kind of a virtual framebuffer driver for that (you don't have the Catalyst as display driver in a remote session). You could use VNC and check "disable mirror driver".

I'll have to run another WU or two to get another stderr, but other than the XML formatting and the error code, that's all that was there.

Like I said, it was a fresh install of Cat 9.1 straight off ATI's website, and the only thing I deselected during installation were the Catalyst Registration and the WoW trial. Is there any way I can find out manually if I have the CAL libraries installed?
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Message 10218 - Posted: 9 Feb 2009 | 17:38:38 UTC - in response to Message 10216.

Is there any way I can find out manually if I have the CAL libraries installed?

Look into the Windows\system32 folder. There should be the files "amdcalcl64.dll", "amdcaldd64.dll" and "amdcalrt64.dll".

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Message 10219 - Posted: 9 Feb 2009 | 17:42:16 UTC - in response to Message 10218.

Is there any way I can find out manually if I have the CAL libraries installed?

Look into the Windows\system32 folder. There should be the files "amdcalcl64.dll", "amdcaldd64.dll" and "amdcalrt64.dll".

Well, that explains some stuff... They don't exist in the Win7 installation, but they do in the Vista installation. So it does seem Catalyst for Win7 doesn't have Stream support yet. Still doesn't explain why Vista fails.
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Message 10515 - Posted: 13 Feb 2009 | 20:22:15 UTC

I've been using the gpu app for almost 2 weeks now and just wanted to give a little feedback. I've rolled back my driver to the 8.12 version from 9.1 yesterday. I was running 8.12 fine but wanted to get the latest driver installed when it came out. After the upgrade i had a lot of pc responsiveness issues and a bsod every few days. Since then my computer has ran much smoother. I'm not sure why the newer driver just didn't seem to perform as well as 8.12. I should mention i'm running gpu version 0.17.

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Message 10642 - Posted: 14 Feb 2009 | 9:47:06 UTC - in response to Message 10206.

I have the next alpha version ready, still limited to Win64 and running on ATI HD38x0 and HD48x0 cards with Catalyst driver 8.12 or 9.1. But this time it should be able to handle again all WUs flying around, also those with more than one stream. They should take about 50% longer (there is one stream more to calculate). I have squeezed the code a bit, it should need now about 0.1 seconds less for the single stream WUs ;) But there is not much left what one could get out of it performance wise. Don't expect major speed gains for the future!

Just a quick note that it still crashes on my machine. I'm going to try and clear out at least the Milkyway tasks I have left, then see if it works on my Vista x64 installation. It's possible ATI's 8.12 drivers for Win7 don't have Stream support yet, which is my suspicion at this point.

Well, Vista x64 gives a better error: "No compatible GPU found!" I know I have a Radeon HD4870 1GB though, so I'm not sure what's causing this. Right now, I'm running with Cat 8.12. I'll update to Cat 9.1 and try again.

EDIT: Same result with Cat 9.1. Are you checking for a compatible GPU, and if so, how?


Hi,
Same problem for me with Vista64 + Catalyst 9.1

<core_client_version>6.2.19</core_client_version>
<![CDATA[
<message>
Fonction incorrecte. (0x1) - exit code 1 (0x1)
</message>
<stderr_txt>
No compatible GPU found!

</stderr_txt>
]]>

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Message 10649 - Posted: 14 Feb 2009 | 10:54:20 UTC - in response to Message 10642.


Just a quick note that it still crashes on my machine. I'm going to try and clear out at least the Milkyway tasks I have left, then see if it works on my Vista x64 installation. It's possible ATI's 8.12 drivers for Win7 don't have Stream support yet, which is my suspicion at this point.

Well, Vista x64 gives a better error: "No compatible GPU found!" I know I have a Radeon HD4870 1GB though, so I'm not sure what's causing this. Right now, I'm running with Cat 8.12. I'll update to Cat 9.1 and try again.

EDIT: Same result with Cat 9.1. Are you checking for a compatible GPU, and if so, how?


Hi,
Same problem for me with Vista64 + Catalyst 9.1

<core_client_version>6.2.19</core_client_version>
<![CDATA[
<message>
Fonction incorrecte. (0x1) - exit code 1 (0x1)
</message>
<stderr_txt>
No compatible GPU found!

</stderr_txt>
]]>

The screenshot and two videos posted in this thread are done on Vista64. There are quite some people where it runs. So please check again the points already mentioned here in the forum:
- driver correctly installed (three amdcal??64.dll files present in Windows/system32 folder)
- you are not accessing the machine over a remote desktop connection (use VNC and disable mirror driver)
- the card should be active (monitor connected to it)

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Message 10651 - Posted: 14 Feb 2009 | 11:32:57 UTC

Works fine on my E7200 2.53 GHz & HD4850. I get about 300 credits per hour, with four workunits at the same time (Core2Duo).

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Message 10652 - Posted: 14 Feb 2009 | 12:00:30 UTC - in response to Message 10651.
Last modified: 14 Feb 2009 | 12:06:42 UTC

Works fine on my E7200 2.53 GHz & HD4850. I get about 300 credits per hour, with four workunits at the same time (Core2Duo).

Thanks for the feedback on the Vista64 issue.
The credits you get are less than a Quadore with an optimized CPU app gets (432credits/hour). Furthrmore you can't let it run for 24h a day. After about 6 hours you have used up your WU limit of 1000 WUs per day and core and that will earn you less than 2000 credits a day.
So you should definitely run another project at the same time. The MW GPU app uses only one core no matter how many WUs run concurrently. The work done for MW won't change, if you run it only with 50% resource share (2 WUs at the same time). Just try it!

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Message 10654 - Posted: 14 Feb 2009 | 13:27:59 UTC - in response to Message 10652.
Last modified: 14 Feb 2009 | 13:39:48 UTC

Works fine on my E7200 2.53 GHz & HD4850. I get about 300 credits per hour, with four workunits at the same time (Core2Duo).

Thanks for the feedback on the Vista64 issue.
The credits you get are less than a Quadore with an optimized CPU app gets (432credits/hour). Furthrmore you can't let it run for 24h a day. After about 6 hours you have used up your WU limit of 1000 WUs per day and core and that will earn you less than 2000 credits a day.
So you should definitely run another project at the same time. The MW GPU app uses only one core no matter how many WUs run concurrently. The work done for MW won't change, if you run it only with 50% resource share (2 WUs at the same time). Just try it!


Thank you very much for this information ^^

I tried a few hours ago to (re)join my main project (World Community Grid), but I stopped when I saw "only" two MW workunits instead of 4 before ^^ But the 1000 Wu limit per day change everything ^^

Question : if the GPU app uses only one core, is it possible to use the other core for a CPU-optimized app ? Or use all the cores with the GPU ?
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Message 10659 - Posted: 14 Feb 2009 | 13:48:04 UTC - in response to Message 10649.


Just a quick note that it still crashes on my machine. I'm going to try and clear out at least the Milkyway tasks I have left, then see if it works on my Vista x64 installation. It's possible ATI's 8.12 drivers for Win7 don't have Stream support yet, which is my suspicion at this point.

Well, Vista x64 gives a better error: "No compatible GPU found!" I know I have a Radeon HD4870 1GB though, so I'm not sure what's causing this. Right now, I'm running with Cat 8.12. I'll update to Cat 9.1 and try again.

EDIT: Same result with Cat 9.1. Are you checking for a compatible GPU, and if so, how?


Hi,
Same problem for me with Vista64 + Catalyst 9.1

<core_client_version>6.2.19</core_client_version>
<![CDATA[
<message>
Fonction incorrecte. (0x1) - exit code 1 (0x1)
</message>
<stderr_txt>
No compatible GPU found!

</stderr_txt>
]]>

The screenshot and two videos posted in this thread are done on Vista64. There are quite some people where it runs. So please check again the points already mentioned here in the forum:
- driver correctly installed (three amdcal??64.dll files present in Windows/system32 folder)
- you are not accessing the machine over a remote desktop connection (use VNC and disable mirror driver)
- the card should be active (monitor connected to it)


- driver installed yesterday, the 3 files are in System32 (amdcalcl64.dll ,amdcaldd64.dll and amdcalrt64.dll)
- i didn't use any remote protocol, it's my main PC
- the card was active, there is only one.

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Message 10664 - Posted: 14 Feb 2009 | 14:15:55 UTC
Last modified: 14 Feb 2009 | 14:21:06 UTC

How have you guys installed the BOINC client?
In the protected mode under Vista the application may not have the necessary access rights. CUDA apps also fail when tried to run in such a scenario. On XP64 and Server2003 it should also run in the protected mode.

If also the people where it runs could report on this?

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Message 10682 - Posted: 14 Feb 2009 | 18:04:36 UTC - in response to Message 10664.

How have you guys installed the BOINC client?
In the protected mode under Vista the application may not have the necessary access rights. CUDA apps also fail when tried to run in such a scenario. On XP64 and Server2003 it should also run in the protected mode.

If also the people where it runs could report on this?


Default options for me on Vista64, so I think I used the protected mode. It worked very fine until the 2000 WU limit. I earned 1939 credits in 6 hours. Only three WU went wrong during the initial tests, but it was my fault ^^

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Message 10692 - Posted: 14 Feb 2009 | 19:03:58 UTC - in response to Message 10664.

How have you guys installed the BOINC client?
In the protected mode under Vista the application may not have the necessary access rights. CUDA apps also fail when tried to run in such a scenario. On XP64 and Server2003 it should also run in the protected mode.

If also the people where it runs could report on this?

Hmm, that makes sense... I think I did a service install, which would be that. Unfortunately, I won't have access to the machine for at least a week, so I can't test what the other install would do. I can try it after I have access again though.
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Message 10827 - Posted: 15 Feb 2009 | 9:25:29 UTC - in response to Message 10664.

How have you guys installed the BOINC client?
In the protected mode under Vista the application may not have the necessary access rights. CUDA apps also fail when tried to run in such a scenario. On XP64 and Server2003 it should also run in the protected mode.

If also the people where it runs could report on this?


I reinstalled Boinc this morning with default value, and now all seems to work, some freeze on the screen but some tuning needed, i suppose. Thanks for your support

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Message 10839 - Posted: 15 Feb 2009 | 10:37:00 UTC - in response to Message 10827.
Last modified: 15 Feb 2009 | 10:37:37 UTC

I reinstalled Boinc this morning with default value, and now all seems to work, some freeze on the screen but some tuning needed, i suppose. Thanks for your support

Isn't the default the protected mode?

The experience of some users indicate the lags or short (one or two seconds) freezes are caused by either GPU-Z or the Catalyst Control Center. If these tools are closed it normalizes within a minute or so.

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Message 10915 - Posted: 15 Feb 2009 | 17:42:52 UTC

Probably silly question, but, Why can these certain graphics cards do their own work for projects and not older cards?
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Message 10929 - Posted: 15 Feb 2009 | 21:22:20 UTC - in response to Message 10915.

Probably silly question, but, Why can these certain graphics cards do their own work for projects and not older cards?

Because the older cards can only do single precision calculations (32bit) and the HD38x0 and HD48x0 are the only ones (besides nvidias GTX2xx series) that can handle double precision (64bit).

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Message 10931 - Posted: 15 Feb 2009 | 21:30:31 UTC - in response to Message 10839.

I reinstalled Boinc this morning with default value, and now all seems to work, some freeze on the screen but some tuning needed, i suppose. Thanks for your support

Isn't the default the protected mode?...

No, per default the protection mode is off, you have to choose the "Protected application execution" option separately.
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Message 10932 - Posted: 15 Feb 2009 | 21:42:34 UTC - in response to Message 10931.

I reinstalled Boinc this morning with default value, and now all seems to work, some freeze on the screen but some tuning needed, i suppose. Thanks for your support

Isn't the default the protected mode?...

No, per default the protection mode is off, you have to choose the "Protected application execution" option separately.

Oh, I guess they have changed it because of the CUDA apps for SETI *lol*

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Message 10933 - Posted: 15 Feb 2009 | 22:09:36 UTC - in response to Message 10932.

I reinstalled Boinc this morning with default value, and now all seems to work, some freeze on the screen but some tuning needed, i suppose. Thanks for your support

Isn't the default the protected mode?...

No, per default the protection mode is off, you have to choose the "Protected application execution" option separately.

Oh, I guess they have changed it because of the CUDA apps for SETI *lol*

Hehe, I think it was disabled for default from the very beginning.
I've tried it once when it was newly added and it didn't convince me too much. *grin*
So I was glad I didn't have to un-check that option everytime I upgraded BOINC. :-D
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Message 10934 - Posted: 15 Feb 2009 | 22:28:01 UTC

Sorry to sound stupid but is a 9700 all in one wonder to old to use this application?

Thanks in advance.

According to GPU-Z the GPU is an R300

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Message 10937 - Posted: 15 Feb 2009 | 22:35:14 UTC - in response to Message 10934.

Sorry to sound stupid but is a 9700 all in one wonder to old to use this application?

Thanks in advance.

According to GPU-Z the GPU is an R300

Sorry, but some years too old.

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Message 10944 - Posted: 15 Feb 2009 | 22:43:47 UTC - in response to Message 10929.

Probably silly question, but, Why can these certain graphics cards do their own work for projects and not older cards?

Because the older cards can only do single precision calculations (32bit) and the HD38x0 and HD48x0 are the only ones (besides nvidias GTX2xx series) that can handle double precision (64bit).


Isn't that what pc's do? But older cards could do single calc's then. Why not add support for those? There would be plenty, since these new cards aren't that old.
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Message 10945 - Posted: 15 Feb 2009 | 22:45:36 UTC - in response to Message 10937.

Sorry to sound stupid but is a 9700 all in one wonder to old to use this application?

Thanks in advance.

According to GPU-Z the GPU is an R300

Sorry, but some years too old.



No worries. Thanks for the swift reply.

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Message 10949 - Posted: 15 Feb 2009 | 22:54:01 UTC - in response to Message 10944.

Probably silly question, but, Why can these certain graphics cards do their own work for projects and not older cards?

Because the older cards can only do single precision calculations (32bit) and the HD38x0 and HD48x0 are the only ones (besides nvidias GTX2xx series) that can handle double precision (64bit).


Isn't that what pc's do? But older cards could do single calc's then. Why not add support for those? There would be plenty, since these new cards aren't that old.

This is about the floating point precision. Travis has set quite strict limits for the reslts of the test WUs. You can't reach them with single precision calculations on older cards (the really old ones support only 16 or 24bit FP). It may be possible to get there with some kind of software emulation, but this would be a lot of effort which would be lost in the future as more and more cards get double precision support. Furthermore it would be most likely as slow ;) or even slower than to do the computations on a CPU.

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Message 10951 - Posted: 15 Feb 2009 | 23:20:01 UTC - in response to Message 10949.


This is about the floating point precision. Travis has set quite strict limits for the reslts of the test WUs. You can't reach them with single precision calculations on older cards (the really old ones support only 16 or 24bit FP). It may be possible to get there with some kind of software emulation, but this would be a lot of effort which would be lost in the future as more and more cards get double precision support. Furthermore it would be most likely as slow ;) or even slower than to do the computations on a CPU.


Ok. I guess if it was worth it, other projects would be using it for the 'older' cards.
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Message 10954 - Posted: 15 Feb 2009 | 23:24:34 UTC - in response to Message 10951.

Ok. I guess if it was worth it, other projects would be using it for the 'older' cards.

Don't forget for most other projects (like SETI or GPUGrid) single precision is enough. That is the reason you can also use slightly older cards there. MW is just more demanding in this specific area.

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Message 10955 - Posted: 15 Feb 2009 | 23:27:08 UTC - in response to Message 10954.

Ok. I guess if it was worth it, other projects would be using it for the 'older' cards.

Don't forget for most other projects (like SETI or GPUGrid) single precision is enough. That is the reason you can also use slightly older cards there. MW is just more demanding in this specific area.


I haven't seen much mention of their use till recently. Though I haven't checked the other projects boards.
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Message 10971 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 3:03:39 UTC

Running pretty well on my HD4830, but I would like it to be running 2 wu's instead of the 8 or so it's running currently. I have played with the app_info file and so far have had no success. Right now it's set on avg_ncpus to 0.2, and max_ncpus to 5 (quad core intel). Resource share on MW is set to 10% and it still continues to run 10 wu's in parallel. Any suggestions?

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Message 10973 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 3:41:56 UTC - in response to Message 10971.

Running pretty well on my HD4830, but I would like it to be running 2 wu's instead of the 8 or so it's running currently. I have played with the app_info file and so far have had no success. Right now it's set on avg_ncpus to 0.2, and max_ncpus to 5 (quad core intel). Resource share on MW is set to 10% and it still continues to run 10 wu's in parallel. Any suggestions?


I think I got it, but man it is killing my screen response time!

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Message 10976 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 4:03:07 UTC - in response to Message 10971.

Running pretty well on my HD4830, but I would like it to be running 2 wu's instead of the 8 or so it's running currently. I have played with the app_info file and so far have had no success. Right now it's set on avg_ncpus to 0.2, and max_ncpus to 5 (quad core intel). Resource share on MW is set to 10% and it still continues to run 10 wu's in parallel. Any suggestions?

Increase avg_ncpus and run another project at the same time.

The screen response is far better, if you close GPU-Z and the Catalyst Control Center (and probably some other tools with monitoring functions). It appears there is some interaction with the monitoring stuff in these. But some tools are checked to be running fine in parallel, afaik ATI Tray Tools and Everest.

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Message 10981 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 5:18:24 UTC
Last modified: 16 Feb 2009 | 5:19:08 UTC

I am running another project, and I switched the resource share to 40% here at MW, bumped the avg_ncpus up to 0.5. I closed CCC and it seemed to help a bit, more towards the acceptable level.

Also, is there going to be a new version for .18?

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Message 11007 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 13:18:07 UTC

avg_ncpus set to 0.1

max_ncpus set to 3 (core2duo)

Seems to work very fine, the Milkyway units are still completed in 8 or 10 seconds. It's the same time when I used 0.50 core, is it "normal" ?

Too bad we have the 1000 workunit-per-cpu limit, is it possible to send a request somewhere to remove this limit when using an optimized app ? This limit is now obsolete when you can calculate 3 or 4 times more units in a day with an optimized app. The only reason I'm moving a computer on milkyway is to help you for your excellent work on ATI graphic cards, but the credits are not very interesting ^^

THank you for this app, anyway ^^
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Message 11008 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 13:24:00 UTC - in response to Message 11007.

avg_ncpus set to 0.1

max_ncpus set to 3 (core2duo)

Seems to work very fine, the Milkyway units are still completed in 8 or 10 seconds. It's the same time when I used 0.50 core, is it "normal" ?

Too bad we have the 1000 workunit-per-cpu limit, is it possible to send a request somewhere to remove this limit when using an optimized app ? This limit is now obsolete when you can calculate 3 or 4 times more units in a day with an optimized app. The only reason I'm moving a computer on milkyway is to help you for your excellent work on ATI graphic cards, but the credits are not very interesting ^^

THank you for this app, anyway ^^


I'm working on something to remove the credit limit, which should go live in the next couple days. Also, I can raise the workunit-per-cpu limit. What would be a good value?
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Message 11017 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 14:33:29 UTC - in response to Message 11008.

Also, I can raise the workunit-per-cpu limit. What would be a good value?

3600*24/9 is up to ~10K WUs per day on HD4870.

Too bad BOINC is still far from ready for GPUs.
I would have suggested to raise WU limit only for hosts with GPUs and distribute WUs with pretty short deadline or extra large ones for such hosts...
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Message 11018 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 14:49:21 UTC - in response to Message 11017.

Also, I can raise the workunit-per-cpu limit. What would be a good value?

3600*24/9 is up to ~10K WUs per day on HD4870.

Too bad BOINC is still far from ready for GPUs.
I would have suggested to raise WU limit only for hosts with GPUs and distribute WUs with pretty short deadline or extra large ones for such hosts...


I think one of the recent updates to the BOINC server code allows for a separate daily WU queue for GPUs. I'll do a little looking into it and if thats the case then we can give the GPUs a 10k daily limit without touching the other one.
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Message 11019 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 14:54:51 UTC

Sounds like a good idea to me.

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Message 11023 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 15:09:39 UTC - in response to Message 11018.
Last modified: 16 Feb 2009 | 15:10:41 UTC

I think one of the recent updates to the BOINC server code allows for a separate daily WU queue for GPUs.
Well, it may (i don't know). But I known that even latest BOINC client 6.6.7 still doesn't recognize GPUs (means both nVidia and ATI/AMD GPUs), only CUDA capable devices.

(not only) MW would benefit a lot from support of ATI GPUs under BOINC, especially those capable of double precision...
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Message 11024 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 15:09:56 UTC - in response to Message 11007.
Last modified: 16 Feb 2009 | 15:11:29 UTC

avg_ncpus set to 0.1

max_ncpus set to 3 (core2duo)

Seems to work very fine, the Milkyway units are still completed in 8 or 10 seconds. It's the same time when I used 0.50 core, is it "normal" ?

Too bad we have the 1000 workunit-per-cpu limit, is it possible to send a request somewhere to remove this limit when using an optimized app ? This limit is now obsolete when you can calculate 3 or 4 times more units in a day with an optimized app. The only reason I'm moving a computer on milkyway is to help you for your excellent work on ATI graphic cards, but the credits are not very interesting ^^

THank you for this app, anyway ^^

You should not set max_ncpus to another value than exactly 1. It is the maximal number of cores a single WU can use. As the app is single threaded it can't use more than a core.

That the WUs are taking the same time no matter how many WUs are running concurrently is perfectly normal. There is probably a slight increase in efficiency (maybe 5%) if two WUs are running compared to a single one. The reason is that you can carry out the few calculations still necessary on the CPU in the time when another WU is waiting for the GPU.

But more than two WUs won't help more (but don't hurt either). You will have a throughput of about one WU per 9.x seconds either way on a HD4870. But there is a limit on the number of concurrent WUs. If you try to run more than 12-16 (~30) WUs on a 512MB (1GB) card, it starts to get slower and finally breaks, because there is not enough memory on the card. In the moment there is no mechanism to check for available RAM on the card. You shouldn't set avg_cpus to very low values to avoid this situation.

PS:
I guess the credit situation gets better if the limits are lifted by Travis ;)

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Message 11031 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 16:52:04 UTC - in response to Message 11018.


I think one of the recent updates to the BOINC server code allows for a separate daily WU queue for GPUs. I'll do a little looking into it and if thats the case then we can give the GPUs a 10k daily limit without touching the other one.


I think you need to make sure that there is plenty of work to do if many of these are ran. Might be time for server #2.
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Message 11038 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 19:28:27 UTC

max_ncpus back to "1".

avg_ncpus set to 0.25. If I keep the default value of 0.50, I have only three WU running at the same time : two optimized MW and one World Community Grid. With avg_ncpus to 0.25 I have four workunits (two for each project)

Travis > thank you very much for your answer about the credits, it's a very good news. For maximum number of units per core, I can say that : with a Core2Duo and a HD4850 512Mo, I crunched 2000 workunits in 6 hours (with no other projet running at the same time, so the CPU wasn't at full use). So 4.000 workunits per core and day will be enough for this configuration (my computer is working "only" 12 hours per day or so, so 4.000 WU per core and day is the very, very maximum). I don't know how many workunits can be crunched with another model of ATI.

Cluster > If I understand correctly, your optimization uses "only" one core at a time, is that right ? Is it possible to use more core, so we can use only Milkyway on one computer with more than one core ?

Do you need something special to help you for your tests ?

PS : during this writing I reached my 2.000 workunits limit - later than before, probably because I tried avg_ncpus to 0.10 ...
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Message 11041 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 20:16:42 UTC - in response to Message 11038.

max_ncpus back to "1".

avg_ncpus set to 0.25. If I keep the default value of 0.50, I have only three WU running at the same time : two optimized MW and one World Community Grid. With avg_ncpus to 0.25 I have four workunits (two for each project)

Travis > thank you very much for your answer about the credits, it's a very good news. For maximum number of units per core, I can say that : with a Core2Duo and a HD4850 512Mo, I crunched 2000 workunits in 6 hours (with no other projet running at the same time, so the CPU wasn't at full use). So 4.000 workunits per core and day will be enough for this configuration (my computer is working "only" 12 hours per day or so, so 4.000 WU per core and day is the very, very maximum). I don't know how many workunits can be crunched with another model of ATI.

Cluster > If I understand correctly, your optimization uses "only" one core at a time, is that right ? Is it possible to use more core, so we can use only Milkyway on one computer with more than one core ?

Do you need something special to help you for your tests ?

PS : during this writing I reached my 2.000 workunits limit - later than before, probably because I tried avg_ncpus to 0.10 ...



With the gpu, I can crunch 16 @ a time with the i7, so 10k limit per core, or 80,000 in my case, would be a more realistic than 4000.

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Message 11055 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 22:26:08 UTC - in response to Message 11038.

Cluster > If I understand correctly, your optimization uses "only" one core at a time, is that right ? Is it possible to use more core, so we can use only Milkyway on one computer with more than one core ?

The goal is actually to use not a full core (or even more), but maybe only 10% of a core or so. This way your CPU would be free to crunch something else.
If it is really wanted I could put in support for simultaneous crunching of MW on GPU and CPU. But this would have a low priority on my list.

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Message 11057 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 22:33:20 UTC - in response to Message 11041.

With the gpu, I can crunch 16 @ a time with the i7, so 10k limit per core, or 80,000 in my case, would be a more realistic than 4000.

But the throughput is still be one WU every 9 seconds or so with a HD4870. It is not getting faster with more concurrent WUs. So with a HD4870 a limit of 10,000 WUs a day would be enough as long there is no multi GPU support implemented (or massive overclocking involved).

I would say 10,000 WUs per host and day are needed now. When multiple cards are working and/or newer GPUs are available, this needs to be raised again.

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Message 11058 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 22:38:37 UTC - in response to Message 11055.

Cluster > If I understand correctly, your optimization uses "only" one core at a time, is that right ? Is it possible to use more core, so we can use only Milkyway on one computer with more than one core ?

The goal is actually to use not a full core (or even more), but maybe only 10% of a core or so. This way your CPU would be free to crunch something else.
If it is really wanted I could put in support for simultaneous crunching of MW on GPU and CPU. But this would have a low priority on my list.

What I would like to see is the ability to use my Nvidia in MW. I know you are using an ATI since it is faster, but I only have the Nvidia which I'd be interested in transferring from crunching on GPUGRID to MW.

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Message 11060 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 22:42:37 UTC - in response to Message 11058.
Last modified: 16 Feb 2009 | 22:43:38 UTC

Cluster > If I understand correctly, your optimization uses "only" one core at a time, is that right ? Is it possible to use more core, so we can use only Milkyway on one computer with more than one core ?

The goal is actually to use not a full core (or even more), but maybe only 10% of a core or so. This way your CPU would be free to crunch something else.
If it is really wanted I could put in support for simultaneous crunching of MW on GPU and CPU. But this would have a low priority on my list.

What I would like to see is the ability to use my Nvidia in MW. I know you are using an ATI since it is faster, but I only have the Nvidia which I'd be interested in transferring from crunching on GPUGRID to MW.

Afaik, there is already a student starting to work on a CUDA app. As this is easier to work with, I guess we could see some results soon ;)
But don't expect times much below 25s per WU for nvidias GTX line. And older ones won't work at all (lack of double precision units).

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Message 11061 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 22:51:43 UTC - in response to Message 11060.

What I would like to see is the ability to use my Nvidia in MW. I know you are using an ATI since it is faster, but I only have the Nvidia which I'd be interested in transferring from crunching on GPUGRID to MW.

Afaik, there is already a student starting to work on a CUDA app. As this is easier to work with, I guess we could see some results soon ;)
But don't expect times much below 25s per WU for nvidias GTX line. And older ones won't work at all (lack of double precision units).

25 secs? Blimey, hurry up student :)

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Message 11064 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 23:03:04 UTC - in response to Message 11061.

25 secs? Blimey, hurry up student :)

But that is soooo slooooow compared to the less than 10 seconds on ATIs HD4870 ;)

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Message 11067 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 23:16:07 UTC - in response to Message 11064.

25 secs? Blimey, hurry up student :)

But that is soooo slooooow compared to the less than 10 seconds on ATIs HD4870 ;)

25 sec is good enough for me, hurry up student :-)

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Message 11068 - Posted: 16 Feb 2009 | 23:17:58 UTC - in response to Message 11067.

25 secs? Blimey, hurry up student :)

But that is soooo slooooow compared to the less than 10 seconds on ATIs HD4870 ;)

25 sec is good enough for me, hurry up student :-)

Rats, I need a new graphics card finally!
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Message 11081 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009 | 0:38:40 UTC - in response to Message 11057.

With the gpu, I can crunch 16 @ a time with the i7, so 10k limit per core, or 80,000 in my case, would be a more realistic than 4000.

But the throughput is still be one WU every 9 seconds or so with a HD4870. It is not getting faster with more concurrent WUs. So with a HD4870 a limit of 10,000 WUs a day would be enough as long there is no multi GPU support implemented (or massive overclocking involved).

I would say 10,000 WUs per host and day are needed now. When multiple cards are working and/or newer GPUs are available, this needs to be raised again.



oh, i agree with that too. the turn around time for the gpu app was about 2 1/2 minutes. i've been running the op app this week and it's crunching 8 wu's in 6 minutes since the .19's came out, so that limit needs to go much higher as well.

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Message 11087 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009 | 0:54:19 UTC - in response to Message 11081.

With the gpu, I can crunch 16 @ a time with the i7, so 10k limit per core, or 80,000 in my case, would be a more realistic than 4000.

But the throughput is still be one WU every 9 seconds or so with a HD4870. It is not getting faster with more concurrent WUs. So with a HD4870 a limit of 10,000 WUs a day would be enough as long there is no multi GPU support implemented (or massive overclocking involved).

I would say 10,000 WUs per host and day are needed now. When multiple cards are working and/or newer GPUs are available, this needs to be raised again.



oh, i agree with that too. the turn around time for the gpu app was about 2 1/2 minutes. i've been running the op app this week and it's crunching 8 wu's in 6 minutes since the .19's came out, so that limit needs to go much higher as well.

It should be enough for your i7, as the current limit is 1,000 WUs per day and core/thread. That means on your i7 you have actually 8,000 WUs a day to play with. You won't come close to that limit with the CPU alone, but it will last for 21 hours a day only on the GPU ;)

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Message 11101 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009 | 2:04:30 UTC - in response to Message 11060.

Cluster > If I understand correctly, your optimization uses "only" one core at a time, is that right ? Is it possible to use more core, so we can use only Milkyway on one computer with more than one core ?

The goal is actually to use not a full core (or even more), but maybe only 10% of a core or so. This way your CPU would be free to crunch something else.
If it is really wanted I could put in support for simultaneous crunching of MW on GPU and CPU. But this would have a low priority on my list.

What I would like to see is the ability to use my Nvidia in MW. I know you are using an ATI since it is faster, but I only have the Nvidia which I'd be interested in transferring from crunching on GPUGRID to MW.

Afaik, there is already a student starting to work on a CUDA app. As this is easier to work with, I guess we could see some results soon ;)
But don't expect times much below 25s per WU for nvidias GTX line. And older ones won't work at all (lack of double precision units).


Yeah hopefully within the next week or two we'll have an alpha CUDA application for you guys to crash :D

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Message 11116 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009 | 6:54:30 UTC - in response to Message 11101.
Last modified: 17 Feb 2009 | 6:55:37 UTC

Yeah hopefully within the next week or two we'll have an alpha CUDA application for you guys to crash :D


Well, I have one GTX 280 and 2 GTX 295s ... start your engines ...

Of course we will need a setting on the site to get only CPU work, only CUDA work ... or both ...

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Message 11132 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009 | 10:02:06 UTC - in response to Message 11116.

Yeah hopefully within the next week or two we'll have an alpha CUDA application for you guys to crash :D


Well, I have one GTX 280 and 2 GTX 295s ... start your engines ...

Of course we will need a setting on the site to get only CPU work, only CUDA work ... or both ...


It's effectively important to have both options.


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Message 11138 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009 | 11:30:02 UTC - in response to Message 11132.

Yeah hopefully within the next week or two we'll have an alpha CUDA application for you guys to crash :D


Well, I have one GTX 280 and 2 GTX 295s ... start your engines ...

Of course we will need a setting on the site to get only CPU work, only CUDA work ... or both ...


It's effectively important to have both options.



I'm hoping that eventually we can get an OpenCL implementation that will work on both ATI and Nvidia cards... we'll see how that whole thing pans out :P
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Message 11166 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009 | 15:38:27 UTC

My HD4830 times have been going up steadily in the last day or so. Running almost 30 seconds now.

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Message 11173 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009 | 16:06:29 UTC - in response to Message 11166.

My HD4830 times have been going up steadily in the last day or so. Running almost 30 seconds now.

There are quite some dual stream work units out there. They take about 50% longer but are also giving 50% more credits (~ 18.5 credits).
I would say your crunch times appear to be completely okay.

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Message 11175 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009 | 16:13:51 UTC

Awesome, thank you for all your help.

Earlier you mentioned leaving the max_ncpus at 1, is there any harm in having it higher? I set it back to 5 and the times are immediately back to 2-3 seconds. Just bad timing I suppose, or could it be bottlenecked and needing some extra CPU power?

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Message 11185 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009 | 17:35:59 UTC - in response to Message 11175.

Awesome, thank you for all your help.

Earlier you mentioned leaving the max_ncpus at 1, is there any harm in having it higher? I set it back to 5 and the times are immediately back to 2-3 seconds. Just bad timing I suppose, or could it be bottlenecked and needing some extra CPU power?

It won't help as the MW app is single threaded and it may have the negative side effect of blocking other applications to run concurrently. So I would leave it at 1.
And don't take the CPU time you see too serious. Now, with the disappered credit limit it doesn't matter anyhow. The important thing is just the throughput, i.e. how many WUs are you crunching per minute/hour/day wall clock time.

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Message 11188 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009 | 18:13:22 UTC

How big of an impact does amount of memory on the card (ie 512MB vs 1GB 4870) have on crunch times?

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Message 11203 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009 | 19:07:51 UTC - in response to Message 11188.
Last modified: 17 Feb 2009 | 19:10:17 UTC

How big of an impact does amount of memory on the card (ie 512MB vs 1GB 4870) have on crunch times?

None.
Also the speed of the memory does not have a pronounced effect (cache hit rates are quite high). The advantage of a HD4870 compared to a HD4850 stems only from the higher clockrate (+20%). The almost doubled memory bandwidth of the HD4870 (GDDR5 vs GDDR3) does not help in case of MW. The algorithm is dominated by computations, not memory accesses. One has only one memory access every eleven instructions or so. And as most of these accesses can be cached quite well it doesn't need much memory bandwidth. Actually it is the same behaviour as one sees with the CPU version.

More memory on the card would only enable the possibility to crunch more WUs concurrently (think of 30+ on a 1 GB card). But as more WUs in flight does not help the througput, it is only an esoterical advantage.

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Message 11216 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009 | 19:54:47 UTC - in response to Message 11203.

How big of an impact does amount of memory on the card (ie 512MB vs 1GB 4870) have on crunch times?

None.
Also the speed of the memory does not have a pronounced effect (cache hit rates are quite high). The advantage of a HD4870 compared to a HD4850 stems only from the higher clockrate (+20%). The almost doubled memory bandwidth of the HD4870 (GDDR5 vs GDDR3) does not help in case of MW. The algorithm is dominated by computations, not memory accesses. One has only one memory access every eleven instructions or so. And as most of these accesses can be cached quite well it doesn't need much memory bandwidth. Actually it is the same behaviour as one sees with the CPU version.

More memory on the card would only enable the possibility to crunch more WUs concurrently (think of 30+ on a 1 GB card). But as more WUs in flight does not help the througput, it is only an esoterical advantage.



Interesting- thanks for that info... ummm, 32 bit XP version in the works?? ;)

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Message 11246 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009 | 21:20:39 UTC - in response to Message 11216.

32 bit XP version in the works?? ;)

Will be the next thing I do.
It's now a higher priority than to fiddle around with multi GPU or linux support.

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Message 11263 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009 | 22:03:12 UTC - in response to Message 11246.

Regarding Multi-GPU: does that mean that at the moment you can run only GPU or only one card per PC ? What should one look for: an 4870X2 or an 4870 ?

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Message 11266 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009 | 22:12:54 UTC - in response to Message 11263.

Regarding Multi-GPU: does that mean that at the moment you can run only GPU or only one card per PC ? What should one look for: an 4870X2 or an 4870 ?

In the moment it uses only one GPU per machine. I hope I can extend it to arbitrary values in the future. Just have to find some time (and two cards to test) for it ;)

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Message 11353 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009 | 6:41:43 UTC - in response to Message 11266.

Thanx, that did save me some money... :)

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Message 11369 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009 | 10:39:14 UTC

I noticed something strange of the website (zslip.com) : the link for the ATI GPU app is labeled "Windows optimized apps (0.17 - latest, cuda)".

Cuda ?
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Message 11371 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009 | 10:46:32 UTC - in response to Message 11369.

I noticed something strange of the website (zslip.com) : the link for the ATI GPU app is labeled "Windows optimized apps (0.17 - latest, cuda)".

Cuda ?

I guess nvidias marketing has done its job ;)

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Message 11380 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009 | 11:22:03 UTC - in response to Message 11371.

I noticed something strange of the website (zslip.com) : the link for the ATI GPU app is labeled "Windows optimized apps (0.17 - latest, cuda)".

Cuda ?

I guess nvidias marketing has done its job ;)


lol. They probably want to change that :)
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Message 11384 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009 | 11:41:57 UTC

So is there currently a WU/credit limit on the GPU app, and if so, what is it?

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Message 11396 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009 | 12:20:42 UTC - in response to Message 11380.

I noticed something strange of the website (zslip.com) : the link for the ATI GPU app is labeled "Windows optimized apps (0.17 - latest, cuda)".

Cuda ?

I guess nvidias marketing has done its job ;)


lol. They probably want to change that :)

Haha, sorry about that. I'll get it changed later today when I can get to the site(s). I meant to put 'gpu' not 'cuda'.

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Message 11398 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009 | 12:34:50 UTC - in response to Message 11396.

I noticed something strange of the website (zslip.com) : the link for the ATI GPU app is labeled "Windows optimized apps (0.17 - latest, cuda)".

Cuda ?

I guess nvidias marketing has done its job ;)


lol. They probably want to change that :)

Haha, sorry about that. I'll get it changed later today when I can get to the site(s). I meant to put 'gpu' not 'cuda'.


Might want to put ATI because I think it will only work for certain ATI cards. You might want to mention which ones as well.
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Message 11399 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009 | 12:42:35 UTC - in response to Message 11398.

I noticed something strange of the website (zslip.com) : the link for the ATI GPU app is labeled "Windows optimized apps (0.17 - latest, cuda)".

Cuda ?

I guess nvidias marketing has done its job ;)


lol. They probably want to change that :)

Haha, sorry about that. I'll get it changed later today when I can get to the site(s). I meant to put 'gpu' not 'cuda'.


Might want to put ATI because I think it will only work for certain ATI cards. You might want to mention which ones as well.

Yes, you are right. It needs to be differentiated from the 'general' Windows versions. I'll probably put the whole info; Windows optimized apps (0.17 - latest, Win64 GPU app for ATI HD38x0 or HD48x0 card and Catalyst 8.12 or 9.1 driver)


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Message 11410 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009 | 13:34:12 UTC

It's my personal opinion, but I think that a full list of compatible GPUs might be great, because I can read here and there some questions about the compatibility of cards. Maybe the label "HD38x0 or HD48x0" isn't clear for all people. Maybe something like this :

Compatible Cards :

- ATI Radeon HD 3840
- ATI Radeon HD 4850
- ATI Radeon HD 4870

Cluster > do not be offensed by my next question : do you want a simple html/css code to present your different pages ? With some nice tables, colors, etc. ?
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Message 11414 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009 | 13:55:21 UTC - in response to Message 11410.

It's my personal opinion, but I think that a full list of compatible GPUs might be great, because I can read here and there some questions about the compatibility of cards. Maybe the label "HD38x0 or HD48x0" isn't clear for all people. Maybe something like this :

Compatible Cards :

- ATI Radeon HD 3840
- ATI Radeon HD 4850
- ATI Radeon HD 4870

Cluster > do not be offensed by my next question : do you want a simple html/css code to present your different pages ? With some nice tables, colors, etc. ?

If you do that, and it's in these MW forums, I'd be happy to link zslip to reference it.

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Message 11428 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009 | 14:19:40 UTC - in response to Message 11414.

You can take a look (it's an alpha version ^^) :

http://www.starwars-holonet.com/boinc/mw.html

Just to get an idea. You can take the code of course ^^
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Message 11433 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009 | 14:41:07 UTC - in response to Message 11428.

You can take a look (it's an alpha version ^^) :

http://www.starwars-holonet.com/boinc/mw.html

Just to get an idea. You can take the code of course ^^

Well, it's certainly a well laid out table and easy to read.

I'm always pleased to take advantages of improvements, so if you're serious in that I can use the code for your table, I might just do that. Thanks ;)


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Message 11435 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009 | 14:50:45 UTC - in response to Message 11428.
Last modified: 18 Feb 2009 | 15:33:06 UTC

http://www.starwars-holonet.com/boinc/mw.html

I like that :)

edit
made it clickable

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Message 11437 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009 | 14:56:30 UTC - in response to Message 11433.
Last modified: 18 Feb 2009 | 14:57:20 UTC


I'm always pleased to take advantages of improvements, so if you're serious in that I can use the code for your table, I might just do that. Thanks ;)


I'm serious. It took me 5 or 10 minutes to do that, so it's not a big work ^^

Take everything you want. If you want me to do something else, do not hesitate ^^

(exarkun_AT_free.fr if you want to talk more about it)


I like that :)


Thank you ^^
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Message 11438 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009 | 15:04:17 UTC - in response to Message 11437.


Take everything you want.


What can I have? ;P
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Message 11440 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009 | 15:16:15 UTC - in response to Message 11438.

What can I have? ;P


Everything from line 1 to 146 lol
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Message 11475 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009 | 18:50:28 UTC - in response to Message 11437.
Last modified: 18 Feb 2009 | 18:50:53 UTC


I'm always pleased to take advantages of improvements, so if you're serious in that I can use the code for your table, I might just do that. Thanks ;)


I'm serious. It took me 5 or 10 minutes to do that, so it's not a big work ^^

Take everything you want. If you want me to do something else, do not hesitate ^^

(exarkun_AT_free.fr if you want to talk more about it)


I like that :)


Thank you ^^

Many thanks for that Exar Kun. I have imported your code into zslip.com and tweaked it just a little bit.

I think it's a great improvement - thanks ;)
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Message 11482 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009 | 19:08:28 UTC - in response to Message 11475.

Many thanks for that Exar Kun. I have imported your code into zslip.com and tweaked it just a little bit.


You should mention cat /proc/cpuinfo for the linux CPU capabilities.

Good suggestion Exar Kun and well done Ice for implementing it

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Message 11498 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009 | 19:55:40 UTC - in response to Message 11482.

You should mention cat /proc/cpuinfo for the linux CPU capabilities.


I certainly will do, but preferably by linking to that information here. If it's posted here in MW I'll add it to zslip or link back to here as appropriate.


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Message 11510 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009 | 22:06:54 UTC

@ Cluster Physik:

Does CPU speed matter in re: to GPU application? or does GPU app not have any significant dependency on CPU? Would one expect a major difference running Pent D or AMD X2 for example vs. a Core2 CPU?

Thx.

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Message 11512 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009 | 22:22:39 UTC - in response to Message 11510.
Last modified: 18 Feb 2009 | 22:24:38 UTC

Does CPU speed matter in re: to GPU application? or does GPU app not have any significant dependency on CPU? Would one expect a major difference running Pent D or AMD X2 for example vs. a Core2 CPU?

As not the whole computation is done on the GPU (just 99.5% or so) it may have a small effect. But I would say it is less than one second difference per WU between a P4 and a Core2 for instance.
Quite a bit of this CPU computation time can be hidden when running 2 WUs (or more) concurrently. When one WU waits some milliseconds for the GPU to complete the current task, another WU can calculate its CPU part.
That's actually the reason I've integrated the possibility to run several WUs concurrently. It slightly increases the efficency. For slower CPUs it just pays off more.

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Message 11549 - Posted: 19 Feb 2009 | 1:49:13 UTC - in response to Message 11512.
Last modified: 19 Feb 2009 | 2:01:34 UTC

Does CPU speed matter in re: to GPU application? or does GPU app not have any significant dependency on CPU? Would one expect a major difference running Pent D or AMD X2 for example vs. a Core2 CPU?

As not the whole computation is done on the GPU (just 99.5% or so) it may have a small effect. But I would say it is less than one second difference per WU between a P4 and a Core2 for instance.
Quite a bit of this CPU computation time can be hidden when running 2 WUs (or more) concurrently. When one WU waits some milliseconds for the GPU to complete the current task, another WU can calculate its CPU part.
That's actually the reason I've integrated the possibility to run several WUs concurrently. It slightly increases the efficency. For slower CPUs it just pays off more.


Thanks for answering my question. Excellent! Also...this is good news as I have a PentD 945 & ECS C19A MB that are brand new, but it never seemed worth building after Core2 came out.....until now.
Just need to add an ATI 4850, load-up xp64 Professional & it will have a legitimate new purpose.
Cool!

Edit: Last question. How many WUs can a card run w/o any performance degredation w/ 512MB GPU memory? I understand throughput remains the same untimately, but I'd be inclined to run a greater # of WUs vs. individually if there's not a performance penalty.
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Message 11562 - Posted: 19 Feb 2009 | 2:59:37 UTC
Last modified: 19 Feb 2009 | 3:46:07 UTC

When can we expect a 32-bit version? I'm so excited! :D

EDIT: I found both versions here.
http://www.file-upload.net/download-1465057/Milkyway_0.19_ATI.zip.html

EDIT2: This is what I'm getting from the 32-bit app on a 4850.
2/18/2009 10:44:59 PM|Milkyway@home|Starting ps_s86_9_219475_1235014948_0
2/18/2009 10:44:59 PM|Milkyway@home|Starting task ps_s86_9_219475_1235014948_0 using milkyway version 19
2/18/2009 10:45:00 PM|Milkyway@home|Computation for task ps_s86_9_219475_1235014948_0 finished
2/18/2009 10:45:00 PM|Milkyway@home|Output file ps_s86_9_219475_1235014948_0_0 for task ps_s86_9_219475_1235014948_0 absent

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Message 11570 - Posted: 19 Feb 2009 | 4:08:58 UTC
Last modified: 19 Feb 2009 | 4:16:04 UTC

Aha, I fixed my Issue, turns out my CCC was slightly corrupted. A reinstallation fixed it.

Edit: DAAAAAAAAAAYUM!!! Nearly a credit/sec of CPU time. Amazing!!

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Message 11584 - Posted: 19 Feb 2009 | 8:21:33 UTC

I just saw the new 32 bit version for ATI GPU. It's a good news, but is there any performance difference between 32 and 64 bits ? If the calculation times are the same, I will come back to my Xp 32 bits ^^
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Message 11624 - Posted: 19 Feb 2009 | 13:44:41 UTC

Another question (sorry if it's stupid ^^) : why the optimized application, specially the GPU app, are not available on the MW website with a big-red-flashing font ? :) I found this thread only by (extreme) luck, and I think that a lot of people don't know they can optimize their participation. But maybe it will be a charge to heavy for the server ?
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Message 11627 - Posted: 19 Feb 2009 | 14:07:26 UTC - in response to Message 11624.

Another question (sorry if it's stupid ^^) : why the optimized application, specially the GPU app, are not available on the MW website with a big-red-flashing font ? :) I found this thread only by (extreme) luck, and I think that a lot of people don't know they can optimize their participation. But maybe it will be a charge to heavy for the server ?

Because the developement is not finished yet. It runs, yes, but there are still some issues that should be resolved before it is ready for prime time. There are some reasons why the thread title is "GPU app teaser" and the applications are clearly labeled as an alpha test.

The 32Bit variant exists 20 hours now and the very first feedback indicated there may be some problem with XP32 and the HD3800 series cards. It is not tested much (the 32bit compilation not at all, I have no possibility to do it). That's the reason a small scale test may be better in the beginning than to have to pull back a faulty application after a full blown rollout.

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Message 11628 - Posted: 19 Feb 2009 | 14:09:03 UTC - in response to Message 11584.

I just saw the new 32 bit version for ATI GPU. It's a good news, but is there any performance difference between 32 and 64 bits ?

There shouldn't be any significant difference.

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Message 11647 - Posted: 19 Feb 2009 | 16:51:06 UTC - in response to Message 11414.

It's my personal opinion, but I think that a full list of compatible GPUs might be great, because I can read here and there some questions about the compatibility of cards. Maybe the label "HD38x0 or HD48x0" isn't clear for all people. Maybe something like this :

Compatible Cards :

- ATI Radeon HD 3840
- ATI Radeon HD 4850
- ATI Radeon HD 4870

Cluster > do not be offensed by my next question : do you want a simple html/css code to present your different pages ? With some nice tables, colors, etc. ?

If you do that, and it's in these MW forums, I'd be happy to link zslip to reference it.



Is this list updated.. I am doing a quick inventory on my hosts and to my surprise I have found several with ATI cards.. Not sure if they are compatible...


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Message 11648 - Posted: 19 Feb 2009 | 16:57:54 UTC - in response to Message 11647.

I am doing a quick inventory on my hosts and to my surprise I have found several with ATI cards.. Not sure if they are compatible...


  • HD3850
  • HD3870
  • HD4830
  • HD4850
  • HD4870


are the comaptible cards. The upcoming HD4890 will be running too.

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Message 11651 - Posted: 19 Feb 2009 | 17:42:24 UTC
Last modified: 19 Feb 2009 | 17:47:42 UTC

Okay, so far, a speed report.

ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB. Running Cat 8.12.
Intel Core2Duo E8400, running stock at 3.0Ghz.
Crunched through daily quota of 2000 tasks in around 10 hours.
Credits - 23,000. This equals around 46,000 credits per day without a WU limit, or 2,300 credits/hour.
I can also run GPU-Z while crunching without a problem. Had to use RivaTuner to increase my fan speeds, it was running at 85C.
This is amazing work!

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Message 11652 - Posted: 19 Feb 2009 | 18:03:52 UTC - in response to Message 11648.

I am doing a quick inventory on my hosts and to my surprise I have found several with ATI cards.. Not sure if they are compatible...


  • HD3850
  • HD3870
  • HD4830
  • HD4850
  • HD4870


are the comaptible cards. The upcoming HD4890 will be running too.





Will a 4550 work ? I have a couple of those.

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Message 11653 - Posted: 19 Feb 2009 | 18:05:59 UTC - in response to Message 11652.

I am doing a quick inventory on my hosts and to my surprise I have found several with ATI cards.. Not sure if they are compatible...


  • HD3850
  • HD3870
  • HD4830
  • HD4850
  • HD4870


are the comaptible cards. The upcoming HD4890 will be running too.





Will a 4550 work ? I have a couple of those.

Unfortunately not, they don't have the required capabilities. :(


The Task/CPU limit has been increased to 5000.

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Message 11654 - Posted: 19 Feb 2009 | 18:06:35 UTC - in response to Message 11651.

Okay, so far, a speed report.

ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB. Running Cat 8.12.
Intel Core2Duo E8400, running stock at 3.0Ghz.
Crunched through daily quota of 2000 tasks in around 10 hours.
Credits - 23,000. This equals around 46,000 credits per day without a WU limit, or 2,300 credits/hour.
I can also run GPU-Z while crunching without a problem. Had to use RivaTuner to increase my fan speeds, it was running at 85C.
This is amazing work!

Is that one task every third of a minute?



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Message 11656 - Posted: 19 Feb 2009 | 18:18:23 UTC - in response to Message 11654.

Okay, so far, a speed report.

ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB. Running Cat 8.12.
Intel Core2Duo E8400, running stock at 3.0Ghz.
Crunched through daily quota of 2000 tasks in around 10 hours.
Credits - 23,000. This equals around 46,000 credits per day without a WU limit, or 2,300 credits/hour.
I can also run GPU-Z while crunching without a problem. Had to use RivaTuner to increase my fan speeds, it was running at 85C.
This is amazing work!

Is that one task every third of a minute?



I have 4 tasks running at once, which all finish in 60-62 seconds at the same time.

60/4=15 seconds each. 1/4th of a minute per task.

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Message 11657 - Posted: 19 Feb 2009 | 18:23:54 UTC



One other newbie ATI /GPU cruncher..

I have done some GPU crunching with Nvidia - so I understand this.


1: Boinc 6.4.5 does not "find" CUDA after upgrading.. I am assuming this is OK?

2: Is there a difference between CAT 8.12 and 9.1 ? I can only find 9.1 on the ATI web site.

3: Other than loading the catalyst driver and copying in the MW opti app/xml and brook.dll is there any other special things I need to be made aware of.

4: I am assuming that the brook.dll is copied into the milkyway projects directory as well.




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Message 11658 - Posted: 19 Feb 2009 | 18:30:54 UTC - in response to Message 11648.
Last modified: 19 Feb 2009 | 18:33:26 UTC

I am doing a quick inventory on my hosts and to my surprise I have found several with ATI cards.. Not sure if they are compatible...


  • HD3850
  • HD3870
  • HD4830
  • HD4850
  • HD4870


are the comaptible cards. The upcoming HD4890 will be running too.



Hummm....

They make an AGP version of the HD3850 if this works, this would be a cheap way to make older hardware scream for about $120 US.

Would you forsee any problems running and AGP version of the HD3850?

Here's a link to a card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102730

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Message 11660 - Posted: 19 Feb 2009 | 18:40:30 UTC - in response to Message 11657.
Last modified: 19 Feb 2009 | 18:50:40 UTC



One other newbie ATI /GPU cruncher..

I have done some GPU crunching with Nvidia - so I understand this.


1: Boinc 6.4.5 does not "find" CUDA after upgrading.. I am assuming this is OK?

2: Is there a difference between CAT 8.12 and 9.1 ? I can only find 9.1 on the ATI web site.

3: Other than loading the catalyst driver and copying in the MW opti app/xml and brook.dll is there any other special things I need to be made aware of.

4: I am assuming that the brook.dll is copied into the milkyway projects directory as well.




1. Yes, CUDA is for Nvidia cards.
2. 9.1 is known to cause people some issues with performance not of crunching, but of the desktop while crunching. This may or may not have been fixed.
3. Not that I know of.
4. Yep..



Screenshot, I couldn't resist. I still can't believe what amazing work this is!

Screenshot
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Message 11679 - Posted: 19 Feb 2009 | 21:57:34 UTC - in response to Message 11660.

Screenshot, I couldn't resist. I still can't believe what amazing work this is!

Screenshot

100% in 6 to 9 seconds. Amazing. I've been looking at the rumours about the ATI Raedon HD 4890 coming out in April with 960 stream processors and 48 texture units. Apparently there will be an overclocked version which will beat the HD 4870 with 25-30 percent performance boost with 1GB GDDR5 memory.

I'm saving my pennies already ;)


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Message 11680 - Posted: 19 Feb 2009 | 22:13:14 UTC - in response to Message 11679.

Screenshot, I couldn't resist. I still can't believe what amazing work this is!

Screenshot

100% in 6 to 9 seconds. Amazing. I've been looking at the rumours about the ATI Raedon HD 4890 coming out in April with 960 stream processors and 48 texture units. Apparently there will be an overclocked version which will beat the HD 4870 with 25-30 percent performance boost with 1GB GDDR5 memory.

I'm saving my pennies already ;)



Can I have your old one? I just have a Radeon 9600. ;P
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Message 11684 - Posted: 19 Feb 2009 | 22:51:58 UTC - in response to Message 11680.

Screenshot, I couldn't resist. I still can't believe what amazing work this is!

Screenshot

100% in 6 to 9 seconds. Amazing. I've been looking at the rumours about the ATI Raedon HD 4890 coming out in April with 960 stream processors and 48 texture units. Apparently there will be an overclocked version which will beat the HD 4870 with 25-30 percent performance boost with 1GB GDDR5 memory.

I'm saving my pennies already ;)



Can I have your old one? I just have a Radeon 9600. ;P

Sorry, but it's welded inside a laptop, and it's not that old, just a month or so - a Nvidia GeForce 9600M GT. I've just finished my 8th GPUGRID WU with it netting me a nice 2,479 credits. (While is been crunching CPDN and MW at the same time ;)


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Message 11774 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 8:23:22 UTC

I think I have a little problem :

20/02/2009 09:21:02 Milkyway@home Sending scheduler request: Requested by user.
20/02/2009 09:21:02 Milkyway@home Not reporting or requesting tasks
20/02/2009 09:21:07 Milkyway@home Scheduler request completed: got 0 new tasks

For the past hour I tried a few times, no workunit for me :(

I will try the 32 bits version, with an overclocking of my HD4850 (and CPU, too ^^)
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Message 11777 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 9:26:12 UTC - in response to Message 11774.

It works now, sorry for the previous message ^^

Everything is ok, with the WU limit removal, I try now to keep only the MW project. I have 8 workunits running on my Core2Duo, less than 10 seconds by WU...
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Message 11791 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 13:00:54 UTC - in response to Message 11774.

I think I have a little problem :

20/02/2009 09:21:02 Milkyway@home Sending scheduler request: Requested by user.
20/02/2009 09:21:02 Milkyway@home Not reporting or requesting tasks
20/02/2009 09:21:07 Milkyway@home Scheduler request completed: got 0 new tasks

For the past hour I tried a few times, no workunit for me :(

I will try the 32 bits version, with an overclocking of my HD4850 (and CPU, too ^^)


I upped the limit to 5000, its probably not enough :P Didn't want to jump all the way to 10k and have craziness start happening.
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Message 11792 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 13:07:40 UTC

what is the latest version of the gpu app? I'm currently using 0.17 and not sure if their is an update i should be using. If there is any reason to upgrade or known problems?

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Message 11793 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 13:12:09 UTC - in response to Message 11791.

I upped the limit to 5000, its probably not enough :P Didn't want to jump all the way to 10k and have craziness start happening.

You don't need to raise it until the multiple GPU support is working. 10,000 WUs a day on a dual core are just enough for a HD4870 at stock speed.

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Message 11794 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 13:27:11 UTC - in response to Message 11792.

what is the latest version of the gpu app? I'm currently using 0.17 and not sure if their is an update i should be using. If there is any reason to upgrade or known problems?

The latest version would be 0.19 (the link is some posts above), but nothing changed besides a CPU detection like in the CPU version 0.19. A GPU detection would have made more sense ;) So I would regard an upgrade as optional and not needed atm.
Well, 32Bit Win systems are supported now, too.

Actually the 32Bit app still needs some testing, the known problems are quite similar to the 64Bit version I guess. But according to some reports, it may not be such a problem to run GPU-Z when the GPU is used as it is with the 64Bit version. But that's more of a speculation.

If the ones running the app provide some feedback about their settings and the stability, it would be great.

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Message 11799 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 13:54:18 UTC
Last modified: 20 Feb 2009 | 13:59:41 UTC

I'm trying GPU app on a XP-32 bits.

After I installed the latest BOINC 6.6.9 and Catalyst 9.1, the first 10 or 15 MW units went on error. Since then I got this message :

20/02/2009 14:50:16 Milkyway@home Sending scheduler request: Requested by user.
20/02/2009 14:50:16 Milkyway@home Not reporting or requesting tasks
20/02/2009 14:50:22 Milkyway@home Scheduler request completed: got 0 new tasks

Same problem I got a few hours ago on Vista-64 (but it was solved on Vista).


-------------------
I detached from MW project, then re-attached with copying the files, I got this message :

20/02/2009 14:56:59 Milkyway@home [error] No app version for result: windows_intelx86 19

When I try to update the project :

20/02/2009 14:59:06 Milkyway@home Sending scheduler request: Requested by user.
20/02/2009 14:59:06 Milkyway@home Not reporting or requesting tasks
20/02/2009 14:59:11 Milkyway@home Scheduler request completed: got 0 new tasks
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Message 11802 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 14:26:03 UTC

Tried to remotely reboot and modified the boot.ini ... and it's crashed :( So I can't test anymore at this time :(
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Message 11804 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 14:31:43 UTC - in response to Message 11794.
Last modified: 20 Feb 2009 | 15:14:10 UTC

If the ones running the app provide some feedback about their settings and the stability, it would be great.

So where's the best place to get one of these cards and drivers at the best price in the UK? I quite fancy having a go at this card crunching.

[edit] Ahem, I would like to add that I would not buy such a card just for gaining credits, or heaven help me to just to help a scientific project, but I'm sure it would also improve the graphic capability for my digital photography hobby and general usablity of my PC system(s).

And I'd be dying to see how it performs on the latest Red Alert game :p
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Message 11806 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 15:24:34 UTC
Last modified: 20 Feb 2009 | 16:08:56 UTC

A Few of Questions Please:

1. Will this ATI GPU Application run on a 64-Bit Windows XP Pro System ???

2. If I don't have the "amdcalcl64.dll", "amdcaldd64.dll" and "amdcalrt64.dll" files in the Windows\system32 folder where can I get them ??? or are they Installed when I Install the ATI Catalyst 8.12 or 9.1 drivers ???

3. Can a ATI 4870x2 Video Card be used or does it have to be a Single Card ???

Thanks ...

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Message 11808 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 15:41:18 UTC - in response to Message 11660.
Last modified: 20 Feb 2009 | 16:10:27 UTC

1: Boinc 6.4.5 does not "find" CUDA after upgrading.. I am assuming this is OK?

2: Is there a difference between CAT 8.12 and 9.1 ? I can only find 9.1 on the ATI web site.

3: Other than loading the catalyst driver and copying in the MW opti app/xml and brook.dll is there any other special things I need to be made aware of.

4: I am assuming that the brook.dll is copied into the milkyway projects directory as well.
1. Yes, CUDA is for Nvidia cards.
2. 9.1 is known to cause people some issues with performance not of crunching, but of the desktop while crunching. This may or may not have been fixed.
3. Not that I know of.
4. Yep..

Another ATI newbie here :)
I've got my hands on a HD4870, installed boinc 6.4.5, catalyst 9.1 drivers and copied the 3 files from the Milkyway_0.19_ATI\Win32_SSE2 directory into projects\milyway...

Boinc starts up, finds app_info.xml but every MW WU fails with
Output file ps_s22_8_93171_1235143844_0_0 for task ps_s22_8_93171_1235143844_0 absent

Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

WinXP32 Pro BTW

edit
I have amdcalcl64.dll amdcaldd64.dll and amdcalrt64.dll in c:\windows\system32

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Message 11817 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 16:55:19 UTC - in response to Message 11808.

I was getting the same error.

I'm also a newbie to ATI crunching and had the same problem last night trying to install on a single core AMD 4000+ running Win2K3 Server x64. I had installed the v8.9 catalyst driver that came with the HD 3870 card. I needed version 8.12. I installed BOTH the control center (48mb) and the wdm (5mb) available here. According to other posts on the board, it sounds like 9.1 doesn't work. You may need to uninstall 9.1 and then install 8.12. After I installed v8.12, it worked like a charm.

Other helpful hints:
1. The ATI WinXP x64 v8.12 driver works fine on Server 2003 x64.

2. I had to install Microsoft .NET Framework v2.0 for x64. It didn't like that I had .NET v3.5 installed which I thought was supposed to be an extension to 2.0. It wanted 2.0 as well.

3. I needed to reboot again after installing wdm even though it didn't ask me to.

Thanks to all those who have worked on the ATI app and for hosting the app on zslip.

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Message 11821 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 17:00:08 UTC - in response to Message 11791.

I think I have a little problem :

20/02/2009 09:21:02 Milkyway@home Sending scheduler request: Requested by user.
20/02/2009 09:21:02 Milkyway@home Not reporting or requesting tasks
20/02/2009 09:21:07 Milkyway@home Scheduler request completed: got 0 new tasks

For the past hour I tried a few times, no workunit for me :(

I will try the 32 bits version, with an overclocking of my HD4850 (and CPU, too ^^)


I upped the limit to 5000, its probably not enough :P Didn't want to jump all the way to 10k and have craziness start happening.


On SETI and GPU grid, after a certain number of errors in a row by the gpu tasks, they stop sending them for a day so as not to cause problems. I blew through about 36 last night really fast before I realized it wasn't working properly. Maybe that's something to add to the todo list as more people try gpu crunching.

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Message 11848 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 18:34:19 UTC - in response to Message 11808.

1: Boinc 6.4.5 does not "find" CUDA after upgrading.. I am assuming this is OK?

2: Is there a difference between CAT 8.12 and 9.1 ? I can only find 9.1 on the ATI web site.

3: Other than loading the catalyst driver and copying in the MW opti app/xml and brook.dll is there any other special things I need to be made aware of.

4: I am assuming that the brook.dll is copied into the milkyway projects directory as well.
1. Yes, CUDA is for Nvidia cards.
2. 9.1 is known to cause people some issues with performance not of crunching, but of the desktop while crunching. This may or may not have been fixed.
3. Not that I know of.
4. Yep..

Another ATI newbie here :)
I've got my hands on a HD4870, installed boinc 6.4.5, catalyst 9.1 drivers and copied the 3 files from the Milkyway_0.19_ATI\Win32_SSE2 directory into projects\milyway...

Boinc starts up, finds app_info.xml but every MW WU fails with
Output file ps_s22_8_93171_1235143844_0_0 for task ps_s22_8_93171_1235143844_0 absent

Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

WinXP32 Pro BTW

edit
I have amdcalcl64.dll amdcaldd64.dll and amdcalrt64.dll in c:\windows\system32


This is caused by an incorrect version or a corrupt version of Catalyst. I had the same issue a few posts above and reinstalled 8.12.

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Message 11853 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 18:49:35 UTC - in response to Message 11848.

Boinc starts up, finds app_info.xml but every MW WU fails with
Output file ps_s22_8_93171_1235143844_0_0 for task ps_s22_8_93171_1235143844_0 absent

Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

This is caused by an incorrect version or a corrupt version of Catalyst. I had the same issue a few posts above and reinstalled 8.12.
Thanks Beremat & Slicker for your advice

I've downgraded to 8.12 but still get the same errors, have even de-installed & re-installed 8.12 to no avail

I'll download it again and have another go
:(

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Message 11854 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 18:51:31 UTC

I'm getting alot of errors to. Got an Asus 3850 on Windows Vista 64 bit. I'm loading the latest Catalyst version right now.

Keep up the good work it is greatly appreciated.

:o)

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Message 11860 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 19:21:01 UTC
Last modified: 20 Feb 2009 | 19:22:04 UTC

Everyone getting errors should look in the task details and post the stderr output visible there.

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Message 11861 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 19:33:13 UTC - in response to Message 11860.

Everyone getting errors should look in the task details and post the stderr output visible there.

<core_client_version>6.4.5</core_client_version>
<![CDATA[
<message>
- exit code -1072365566 (0xc0150002)
</message>
]]>


hope that helps
P4D, winxp32, HD4870, catalyst 8.12

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Message 11862 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 19:45:49 UTC - in response to Message 11861.

Everyone getting errors should look in the task details and post the stderr output visible there.

<core_client_version>6.4.5</core_client_version>
<![CDATA[
<message>
- exit code -1072365566 (0xc0150002)
</message>
]]>


hope that helps
P4D, winxp32, HD4870, catalyst 8.12

That error normally means that some dll is missing.
Most probably the app can't find the brook.dll distributed with the GPU app or one of the CAL libraries normally installed with the latest Catalyst drivers (8.12 or 9.1). Reinstalling the driver may solve the problem.

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Message 11863 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 19:50:16 UTC - in response to Message 11808.

Boinc starts up, finds app_info.xml but every MW WU fails with
Output file ps_s22_8_93171_1235143844_0_0 for task ps_s22_8_93171_1235143844_0 absent

Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

Maybe BOINC just trashes the old WUs and new downloaded ones run fine? This could happen depending on the MW version you was running before changing to the GPU application.

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Message 11864 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 19:59:55 UTC - in response to Message 11848.

This is caused by an incorrect version or a corrupt version of Catalyst. I had the same issue a few posts above and reinstalled 8.12.

Your Core2Duo with WinXP32 SP3 is running really nice! In your task list one can see about 800 sucessfully crunched WUs without a single one that errored out. It shows the possibility to run the app flawlessly.

Have you done anything special? Are you running another project at the same time?

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Message 11866 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 20:26:03 UTC
Last modified: 20 Feb 2009 | 20:26:52 UTC

One important note, I can only recommend not to update to the latest Catalyst 9.2 drivers. Obviously ATI accidentally renamed the CAL libraries required for the GPU application in the latest driver package.
Until ATI updates the driver package with the correct names the GPU app won't work with the latest Catalyst 9.2.

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Message 11868 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 20:30:56 UTC - in response to Message 11860.

Everyone getting errors should look in the task details and post the stderr output visible there.


<core_client_version>6.4.5</core_client_version>
<![CDATA[
<message>
- exit code -1073741819 (0xc0000005)
</message>
<stderr_txt>


Unhandled Exception Detected...

- Unhandled Exception Record -
Reason: Access Violation (0xc0000005) at address 0x000000001003B6BD write attempt to address 0x00000000

Engaging BOINC Windows Runtime Debugger...

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Message 11869 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 20:31:07 UTC - in response to Message 11862.
Last modified: 20 Feb 2009 | 20:33:44 UTC

That error normally means that some dll is missing.
Most probably the app can't find the brook.dll distributed with the GPU app or one of the CAL libraries normally installed with the latest Catalyst drivers (8.12 or 9.1). Reinstalling the driver may solve the problem.

brook.dll is in the projects/milkyway directory along with the app and app_info.xml
and I have the 3 amdcal*.dll files in windows\system32

btw
the cals are the 32bit versions not the 64bit versions I posted earlier, I copied & pasted from the previous message without noticing that refered to 64bit.

I'll download 8.12 again

Maybe BOINC just trashes the old WUs and new downloaded ones run fine? This could happen depending on the MW version you was running before changing to the GPU application

afraid not, boinc is new to this machine today, specially for the HD4879, hostid 50557. Its set to NNW apart from when I retry after changing something ie reinstall drivers etc

edit
DOH, the machine is a P4 not a P4D

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Message 11876 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 20:45:25 UTC



Ok,

got my first one up and running-


Question...

And sorry if this has been brought up before -

The other BOINC projects do not run alongside the GPU app.

Is this correct, or is there something I am missing ???
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Message 11882 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 20:53:11 UTC - in response to Message 11868.

Everyone getting errors should look in the task details and post the stderr output visible there.


<core_client_version>6.4.5</core_client_version>
<![CDATA[
<message>
- exit code -1073741819 (0xc0000005)
</message>
<stderr_txt>


Unhandled Exception Detected...

- Unhandled Exception Record -
Reason: Access Violation (0xc0000005) at address 0x000000001003B6BD write attempt to address 0x00000000

Engaging BOINC Windows Runtime Debugger...

But most of the WUs on that computer run without error.
Do you get VPU recover warnings (can be disabled if it's causing too much trouble) or do you start some application what is causing the errors?

You could try to reduce the number of WUs running concurrently by changing the avg_ncpus and max_ncpus values in the app_info.xml (raise it to the number of cores in your system for only 1 WU at a time).

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Message 11885 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 21:02:01 UTC - in response to Message 11876.
Last modified: 20 Feb 2009 | 21:09:26 UTC

Question...

And sorry if this has been brought up before -

The other BOINC projects do not run alongside the GPU app.

Is this correct, or is there something I am missing ???

Do you get errors if you try to fully load the GPU and the remaining cores with different projects or does the BOINC client simply refuse to run another project at the same time as MW?
I thought I have seen some guys are running several projects along with the MW GPU app.

Edit:
Beremat provided a screenshot in this thread showing he is at least attached to several projects at once. Maybe he can answer if he was able to run them at the same time.
I got a report that one gets a VPU recover error if other projects run with the MW GPU app creating a 100% CPU load. He said a possible workaround is to configure BOINC to use only 3 cores on a Quadcore. Obviously noone tried to simply deactivate the VPU recover feature yet. May be worth a shot.

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Message 11894 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 21:34:46 UTC - in response to Message 11864.
Last modified: 20 Feb 2009 | 21:45:23 UTC

This is caused by an incorrect version or a corrupt version of Catalyst. I had the same issue a few posts above and reinstalled 8.12.

Your Core2Duo with WinXP32 SP3 is running really nice! In your task list one can see about 800 sucessfully crunched WUs without a single one that errored out. It shows the possibility to run the app flawlessly.

Have you done anything special? Are you running another project at the same time?

Thanks :3
I haven't done anything at all. I've run through at least 8-9,000 WUs so far. The only thing I suggest is to snooze/close BOINC while running *any* games, even 2D ones. Even rather low-quality graphic games like WoW will cause these WUs to error out.

I was running a few projects before, and I was not getting any errors whatsoever. It seemed as though 2 other projects' WUs could run alongside. One would get 100% of one core, and the other would only get some percentage of the other core when MW wasn't using the CPU.
Now, I'm running 100% MilkyWay.
I'm getting around 45,000 credits over 24 hrs at a steady rate right now.
Remember, this is only 1 4850!
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Message 11896 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 21:36:46 UTC - in response to Message 11885.

Question...

And sorry if this has been brought up before -

The other BOINC projects do not run alongside the GPU app.

Is this correct, or is there something I am missing ???

Do you get errors if you try to fully load the GPU and the remaining cores with different projects or does the BOINC client simply refuse to run another project at the same time as MW?
I thought I have seen some guys are running several projects along with the MW GPU app.

Edit:
Beremat provided a screenshot in this thread showing he is at least attached to several projects at once. Maybe he can answer if he was able to run them at the same time.
I got a report that one gets a VPU recover error if other projects run with the MW GPU app creating a 100% CPU load. He said a possible workaround is to configure BOINC to use only 3 cores on a Quadcore. Obviously noone tried to simply deactivate the VPU recover feature yet. May be worth a shot.


Nope no errors at all - only MW WU's crunch, until the cache of MW is empty, then the other project kicks in.

I am currently running 8 MW WU's at a time -

I only am seeing about 25-30% CPU load.



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Message 11898 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 21:48:16 UTC - in response to Message 11817.

2. I had to install Microsoft .NET Framework v2.0 for x64. It didn't like that I had .NET v3.5 installed which I thought was supposed to be an extension to 2.0. It wanted 2.0 as well.

I didn't read this line properly.
I already had .net framework 2 installed and thought that was all I needed.
After numerous re-installs of the catalyst drivers & boinc I realised I should also install .net framework 3.5
After it rebooted all is working :)

WOOHOO

running 4 WUs at a time with each taking 13 seconds

Stunning work Cluster Physik


just to recap
I needed both .NET Framework V2.0 and V3.5

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Message 11902 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 22:42:39 UTC - in response to Message 11898.

2. I had to install Microsoft .NET Framework v2.0 for x64. It didn't like that I had .NET v3.5 installed which I thought was supposed to be an extension to 2.0. It wanted 2.0 as well.

I didn't read this line properly.
I already had .net framework 2 installed and thought that was all I needed.
After numerous re-installs of the catalyst drivers & boinc I realised I should also install .net framework 3.5
After it rebooted all is working :)

WOOHOO

running 4 WUs at a time with each taking 13 seconds

Stunning work Cluster Physik


just to recap
I needed both .NET Framework V2.0 and V3.5


Just installed a second card on an XP64 box w/ a Q9450. I ONLY installed .NET 2.0 SP1 and it worked fine. Maybe the issue is that the catalyst driver needs SP1? .NET 3.5 is NOT installed on the box. Hmmm....

Glad it worked for you though.

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Message 11903 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 22:45:56 UTC

New install on a Q9450 running XP64 w/ Boinc 6.4.5. It runs 8 gpu WUs at a time. Nice. But, it will only download 12 WUs as if it only recognizes that it has 1 cpu rather than 4 cores. How can I get it to download 12 per core? Or, is it because it is only running on 1 cpu (no other projects) that it will only download 12 at a time?

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Message 11906 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 22:56:52 UTC - in response to Message 11794.
Last modified: 20 Feb 2009 | 22:57:31 UTC

what is the latest version of the gpu app? I'm currently using 0.17 and not sure if their is an update i should be using. If there is any reason to upgrade or known problems?

The latest version would be 0.19 (the link is some posts above), but nothing changed besides a CPU detection like in the CPU version 0.19. A GPU detection would have made more sense ;) So I would regard an upgrade as optional and not needed atm.
Well, 32Bit Win systems are supported now, too.

Actually the 32Bit app still needs some testing, the known problems are quite similar to the 64Bit version I guess. But according to some reports, it may not be such a problem to run GPU-Z when the GPU is used as it is with the 64Bit version. But that's more of a speculation.

If the ones running the app provide some feedback about their settings and the stability, it would be great.

Windows 32/64 ATI version 0.19 are now in zslip.com and zslip.net

Thanks again Cluster Physik
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Message 11913 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 23:32:36 UTC

Well, Frys had a 4870 on sale for $199 with discount and rebate... kinda hard to turn that down ... so ...

Installed the card, 8.12 drivers ... not sure if I had .Net versions installed (am installing 32 patches as I type this, one of which is the 3.5 version if I read correctly) ... Using BOINC version 6.5.0 though that does not seem to affect things significantly (one way or the other).

it seems to be running successfully with this caveat ... if I allow any other project I get fewer and fewer tasks running on the system.

I tried using configuration settings to restrict the number of cores in use to 3 (of 4 virtual CPUs) but that does not seem to help, what that seems to do is to cut the number of Milky way tasks to 6 vice 8 ...

I have been up and down this thread several times and I think I am still missing something ... am I supposed to be adding another configuration file other than the app_info?

SOMEWHERE I thought I read a note about changing one of the configuration files to allow parallel execution of the GPU tasks with CPU tasks from other projects ...

So, I guess what I am asking, has anyone been able to run MW GPU while running other projects?

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Message 11920 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009 | 23:46:46 UTC - in response to Message 11913.
Last modified: 20 Feb 2009 | 23:49:15 UTC

So, I guess what I am asking, has anyone been able to run MW GPU while running other projects?

Beremat has answered this. He has a HD4850 paired with a C2D 8400 running WinXP32.

I was running a few projects before, and I was not getting any errors whatsoever. It seemed as though 2 other projects' WUs could run alongside. One would get 100% of one core, and the other would only get some percentage of the other core when MW wasn't using the CPU.

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Message 11938 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 0:29:55 UTC
Last modified: 21 Feb 2009 | 0:44:12 UTC

I wonder what he did ... cause it does not work for me ... if I start up any other project, even FreeHal I lose one task on the ATI GPU ... so, for example I have FreeHAL enabled and only have 7 tasks running on the GPU ... if I suspend that task I get 8 on the GPU ... if I allow normal operation I get no GPU activity...

If I allow one CPU task to run I lose two GPU tasks ... system loading is 65% ... running one FreeHal task and two VP tasks load is 70%-80% but only 4 GPU tasks ...

Very strange ...

I wonder if he made a, what is it, cc_config file?

{edit}
Hmm, that did not work as expected. If I make a CC_Config I can set the CPUs up to higher numbers, and if I set it to 5 I can run one task in parallel with 8 MW GPU tasks ... but if I set it to 8, I can have 4 tasks running as normal ... but, I have to manually manage the tasks, turning them on one at a time to prevent more tasks running than expected ...

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Message 11949 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 1:28:48 UTC - in response to Message 11938.

I wonder what he did ... cause it does not work for me ... if I start up any other project, even FreeHal I lose one task on the ATI GPU ... so, for example I have FreeHAL enabled and only have 7 tasks running on the GPU ... if I suspend that task I get 8 on the GPU ... if I allow normal operation I get no GPU activity...

If I allow one CPU task to run I lose two GPU tasks ... system loading is 65% ... running one FreeHal task and two VP tasks load is 70%-80% but only 4 GPU tasks ...

Very strange ...

Not really. Running fewer tasks concurrently on the GPU does not lower the througput, it is perfectly okay.

And remember that BOINC is not aware that the MW GPU app actually uses the GPU (no ATI support yet). It is scheduled like a normal CPU application. On newer versions (6.2 and up I think) it obeys the avg_ncpus and max_ncpus values in the app_info.xml. They are set to 0.5 and 1 respectively, to allow for an easier overlap of at least two WUs (increases efficiency and GPU load slightly, but more than two do not help) also with a lower resource share. But one can also play around with the values. But this actually just influences how many tasks BOINC schedules to run, not how much of a core is really used. You can save some CPU time on the GPU application (effectively freeing up a bit of the one full core the GPU app takes irrespective of the number of concurrently running MW WUs) if you lower the values and reduce the MW resource share accordingly.

Just an example, you have a quad core, the MW resource share is at 25% and some other project is at 75%. BOINC will then run two MW WUs concurrently (using one core) and three additional WUs from that other project with the default settings in the app_info.xml. That's perfectly okay, as the throughput of the GPU app does not depend on the number of concurrent WUs (as longs as two or more are running, but even that is only a 10% effect, even less on the slower HD3800 series). After all, you have only one GPU. It's almost like running multithreaded on a single core. That scenario will give you 100% CPU load and still the maximal throughput of the MW GPU application.

Now reduce the avg_ncpus values in the app_info to 0.25 (the max_ncpus should stay at 1). With the same resource share settings as above (25/75) there will still be 3 WUs from the other project, but now 4 MW units. That should still give the same troughput as with the 2 WUs from above. But now you could also reduce the MW share a bit to let's say 13/87. The BOINC scheduler will run in most cases 4 WUs of the other project and only 2 MW WUs. Effectively 5 active tasks (as I explained basically all MW tasks together counts as only one in this respect no matter how many WUs actually run) battle for the 4 cores of the system. The throughput of the other project should rise slightly with his approach and MW should not take too much of a hit (has to be tested though).

Hope this may shine some light on the issue.

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Message 11961 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 2:03:40 UTC

Should I change the avg_ncpus from the default value when using a dual-GPU card (4870x2)?

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Message 11964 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 2:08:28 UTC

Some light, though I think I am drowning ... still ...

Ok, it looks like I am going to have to fiddle with the files ...

Though I don't have a lot of experience with the operation (2 hours or so) I think I will have to play a bit ...

I think till tomorrow when I have the courage to attack this I will just let it run and if it runs dry (as it has), it runs dry for a bit. Though based on skimpy observation, running fewer tasks on the GPU does not appear to improve the throughput ...

In other words, the GPU is not saturated at 8 tasks ... however, I may be saturating the supporting CPU with more tasks running ... Ok, I think I see what is going on here ...

For the moment, tonight I am going to run with my CPDN task and that allows 6 GPU tasks to run and tomorrow I will look at other settings ...

Thanks for the explanation, not sure I understand it ... but ... that means it is probably me not getting something simple ...

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Message 11965 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 2:14:19 UTC - in response to Message 11961.

Should I change the avg_ncpus from the default value when using a dual-GPU card (4870x2)?

In the moment multiple GPUs are not supported (but hopefully I will find some time to put it in). In principle the app should use just one of the GPUs on your card. With multiple cards in a system it is the same.
But could you please test that it runs at all?
Editing of the app_info.xml is not needed if all is running well.

By the way, a single HD4870 is already that fast. Do you imagine what two of them would do? :o

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Message 11966 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 2:24:46 UTC - in response to Message 11964.
Last modified: 21 Feb 2009 | 2:31:03 UTC

Some light, though I think I am drowning ... still ...

Ok, it looks like I am going to have to fiddle with the files ...

Though I don't have a lot of experience with the operation (2 hours or so) I think I will have to play a bit ...

I think till tomorrow when I have the courage to attack this I will just let it run and if it runs dry (as it has), it runs dry for a bit. Though based on skimpy observation, running fewer tasks on the GPU does not appear to improve the throughput ...

In other words, the GPU is not saturated at 8 tasks ... however, I may be saturating the supporting CPU with more tasks running ... Ok, I think I see what is going on here ...

For the moment, tonight I am going to run with my CPDN task and that allows 6 GPU tasks to run and tomorrow I will look at other settings ...

Thanks for the explanation, not sure I understand it ... but ... that means it is probably me not getting something simple ...

So let's make it simple.

A HD4870 finishes about 400 WUs (of the short type) per hour. It does so if you run 2 WUs at a time, and it still arrive at the same throughput as if you would run 4, 8 or even 16 WUs concurrently on that single card. The throughput does not rise like on a a multi core CPU (there is only one GPU).

So just fire up some other projects. As longs as there is at least one running MW task left, you will generate one result every 9 seconds (wall clock time).

And with less concurrent MW tasks you get an even better impression of the speed ;)

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Message 11979 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 3:01:01 UTC - in response to Message 11793.

I upped the limit to 5000, its probably not enough :P Didn't want to jump all the way to 10k and have craziness start happening.

You don't need to raise it until the multiple GPU support is working. 10,000 WUs a day on a dual core are just enough for a HD4870 at stock speed.


and with the longer wu's 5k is probably enough.

though I noticed on the i7:

Maximum daily WU quota per CPU 4999/day

and it was only 4998/day when I looked earlier while all the other machines showed 5000.

and since we've gotten longer work units, i've been having problems with the GPU app freezing after about 4 hours - i7 with ati 4800. so, this morning, I updated to CCC 9.1. Then noticed it froze after 2 1/2 - 3 hours when i checked it from my phone.

when I got home tonight, it didn't look like 9.1 installed correctly. So I completely uninstalled and reinstalled 9.1, then it would freeze up after an hour or so. I just installed the new .19 gpu app, so maybe that will clear it up?

but i wonder if b/c these are longer wu's, that I'm just putting too much strain on the gpu continuously crunching 16 wu @ a time?

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Message 11982 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 3:04:43 UTC - in response to Message 11965.

But could you please test that it runs at all?

Oh yes, the app works just as intended, I guess, chewing through one WU every 8-12 seconds (depending on the WU).

By the way, a single HD4870 is already that fast. Do you imagine what two of them would do? :o

Having two GPUs available, and knowing that one of them will remain idle for now, imagining is just about all I do. But hey, at some 50 times the speed of one 4.0 GHz Yorkfield core (stock app), I'm already laughing :D

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Message 12015 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 3:56:06 UTC - in response to Message 11979.
Last modified: 21 Feb 2009 | 4:18:58 UTC

[quote]I upped the limit to 5000, its probably not enough :P Didn't want to jump all the way to 10k and have craziness start happening.

and since we've gotten longer work units, i've been having problems with the GPU app freezing after about 4 hours - i7 with ati 4800. so, this morning, I updated to CCC 9.1. Then noticed it froze after 2 1/2 - 3 hours when i checked it from my phone.

when I got home tonight, it didn't look like 9.1 installed correctly. So I completely uninstalled and reinstalled 9.1, then it would freeze up after an hour or so. I just installed the new .19 gpu app, so maybe that will clear it up?

but i wonder if b/c these are longer wu's, that I'm just putting too much strain on the gpu continuously crunching 16 wu @ a time?

Hm, I doubt that you're overstressing your card. It is likely that there is a fault with the drivers somewhere. I've been crunching for around 46 hours straight on my 4850 with Catalyst 8.9, and no errors apart from when I was gaming.
I suggest you rollback to 8.9 and see how it goes.

EDIT: Oh! Another thing. Monitor your temperatures on your GPU while crunching if you can. I had to increase the fan speed on my 4850 to 50% because I was afraid that 85C was a bit much. Even this slight increase from 30 to 50% cooled the card all the way down to 63C stable.


Also, note that I haven't done a single WU on MilkyWay with my CPU ever. All the results you see on the left are with one single GPU in 46 hours, just under 2 days. Subtract around 8 hours because I was gaming. That makes around 38 hours.
100,000 credits\38 hours=2.6k credits/hr on a 4850, imagine what a 4870 can do!
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Message 12037 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 5:53:01 UTC - in response to Message 11966.

So let's make it simple.

A HD4870 finishes about 400 WUs (of the short type) per hour. It does so if you run 2 WUs at a time, and it still arrive at the same throughput as if you would run 4, 8 or even 16 WUs concurrently on that single card. The throughput does not rise like on a a multi core CPU (there is only one GPU).

So just fire up some other projects. As longs as there is at least one running MW task left, you will generate one result every 9 seconds (wall clock time).

And with less concurrent MW tasks you get an even better impression of the speed ;)


I guess I was seduced by the image of 8 tasks running at the same time ... With two GTX 295s in one of my other systems it is easy to get seduced by the thrill of speed ...

I guess that I was also getting suckered by the fact that I did not have the debts right so the MW tasks were not running. But, now the system seems to be content and is running the tasks through quite nicely ... though I only have one in flight at a time ... so I will see how it goes ...

Thanks for the help ... what the heck ... it seems to be running ... now I have to look at my other systems to make sure they are still cooking along too ...

Thanks again ...

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Message 12043 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 8:09:20 UTC

Upgraded to GPU app version 0.19.

Works fine on Vista 64, 4 Go RAM, HD 4850 512 Mo, Core2Duo.

It's running 4 MW units (0.50 CPU each), and 1 World Community Grid unit.

The two core are not working at 100%. In version 0.17 I was running two WCG units, and two MW units, and the 2 cores was at 100%...

Little problem here : when I attached a new WCG project, the 4 MW stopped (the calculation seems to work, but the progress bar is freezed for the 4 units).

A BOINC shutdown almost solved the problem : I have now 1 WCG unit and 2 MW units. Haaaa it changed again : 2 WCG units, and only 1 MW unit !!!

:)
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Message 12065 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 12:40:37 UTC - in response to Message 12015.
Last modified: 21 Feb 2009 | 12:43:47 UTC


I suggest you rollback to 8.9 and see how it goes.

EDIT: Oh! Another thing. Monitor your temperatures on your GPU while crunching if you can. I had to increase the fan speed on my 4850 to 50% because I was afraid that 85C was a bit much. Even this slight increase from 30 to 50% cooled the card all the way down to 63C stable.


i left it at 9.1 but took your advice of upping the fan speed. that's brought it down from ~83c to ~77c.

and it made it through the night without locking up. So it could be that it was overheating. But I had also upgraded to version .19. So, was there a change in there that corrected the problem?

either way, v.19 is working fine on an i7 and hd4870 with 512m

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Message 12067 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 13:12:04 UTC - in response to Message 12065.

i left it at 9.1 but took your advice of upping the fan speed. that's brought it down from ~83c to ~77c.

and it made it through the night without locking up. So it could be that it was overheating. But I had also upgraded to version .19. So, was there a change in there that corrected the problem?

either way, v.19 is working fine on an i7 and hd4870 with 512m

Besides the CPU detection nothing changed between 0.17 and 0.19. So maybe really a temperature problem.

But I have seen your crunch times are slightly on the high side. This could be caused by running too many WUs concurrently on the GPU. At a certain point the RAM on the graphics card is not sufficient for the number of WUs taking space there. Before it errors out (when even more WUs would be crunched), it slows down (probably some swapping over PCI-Express happens). And with 16 WUs it is getting already a bit crowded on a 512MB card.
Another reason for the higher times could be that the card runs downclocked in a power saving mode. Maybe you should check the clock speed of the card.

Furthermore you may think about attaching to a second BOINC project with that i7. This will reduce the number of MW WUs that are running a he same time, but not the throughput. You will still finish the same number of WUs per hour even with less concurrently running WUs. In fact, it could even rise in your case. Furthermore your CPU cores wouldn't be idling that much ;)

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Message 12073 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 13:21:49 UTC

Same message, again : not reporting or requesting tasks... I can't crunch today :(

Note for Vista-64 users : I had to install a hotfix from ATI to get the CCC working. The driver is 8.2

PS : when GPU activity is 0%, I have an idle temp of 80°c and fan speed at 25%. If I use the CCC to set the fan speed at 50%, the temp decrease to 60°c :) But I have a question : if I sent the fan speed manually, may I have a problem when running the GPU at 100% ?

If anyone can help with this "not reporting or requesting tasks" thing ... thank you ^^
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Message 12106 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 15:42:08 UTC - in response to Message 12067.

i left it at 9.1 but took your advice of upping the fan speed. that's brought it down from ~83c to ~77c.

and it made it through the night without locking up. So it could be that it was overheating. But I had also upgraded to version .19. So, was there a change in there that corrected the problem?

either way, v.19 is working fine on an i7 and hd4870 with 512m

Besides the CPU detection nothing changed between 0.17 and 0.19. So maybe really a temperature problem.

But I have seen your crunch times are slightly on the high side. This could be caused by running too many WUs concurrently on the GPU. At a certain point the RAM on the graphics card is not sufficient for the number of WUs taking space there. Before it errors out (when even more WUs would be crunched), it slows down (probably some swapping over PCI-Express happens). And with 16 WUs it is getting already a bit crowded on a 512MB card.
Another reason for the higher times could be that the card runs downclocked in a power saving mode. Maybe you should check the clock speed of the card.

Furthermore you may think about attaching to a second BOINC project with that i7. This will reduce the number of MW WUs that are running a he same time, but not the throughput. You will still finish the same number of WUs per hour even with less concurrently running WUs. In fact, it could even rise in your case. Furthermore your CPU cores wouldn't be idling that much ;)


off the top of my head, i remembered reading that you basically just changed the version number - but couldn't remember if that was just the opti app or the gpu.

also, i've noticed the temp has dropped even further overnight, so I may reset the fan speed to 40%. and i have a climate prediction model sitting @ 50% done, so I'll resume that one.

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Message 12128 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 18:50:26 UTC

I've noticed that if I enable both MW and another project, that it will run both but that the MW gpu app will SHARE a cpu with the other project. e.g. Q9450 runs 4 ABC apps and 1 or 2 MW. 3 of the ABC run on their own cpu. The 4th ABC runs on the same cpu as the MW app(s). When the CUDA apps do this, they set their priority to "Below Normal" instead of "Low" (a.k.a. Idle). Any chance the gpu app could be modified to do the same? Then, whatever processing power is left will go to the other app since it will be set to Low.

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Message 12131 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 18:53:33 UTC - in response to Message 11982.

But could you please test that it runs at all?

Oh yes, the app works just as intended, I guess, chewing through one WU every 8-12 seconds (depending on the WU).

I forgot to mention that the CPU usage so far hasn't exceeded 23% of one core (still 4.0 GHz Yorkfield). Much less most of the time. Kudos to everyone involved!
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Message 12158 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 20:51:17 UTC - in response to Message 12128.

I've noticed that if I enable both MW and another project, that it will run both but that the MW gpu app will SHARE a cpu with the other project. e.g. Q9450 runs 4 ABC apps and 1 or 2 MW. 3 of the ABC run on their own cpu. The 4th ABC runs on the same cpu as the MW app(s). When the CUDA apps do this, they set their priority to "Below Normal" instead of "Low" (a.k.a. Idle). Any chance the gpu app could be modified to do the same? Then, whatever processing power is left will go to the other app since it will be set to Low.

That scheduling problem is hard to solve as long there is no ATI support in BOINC. Maybe it will come with 6.7.
But as the GPU app uses quite little CPU resources (the core used in the moment is mainly for polling the GPU, less than 2 seconds CPU time for a WU are really needed), there is the chance I can free up some of it. That would reduce the problem I guess.

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Message 12159 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 20:54:28 UTC
Last modified: 21 Feb 2009 | 21:00:11 UTC

Ha ha, I love it. Claimed credit 0.01 Granted credit 8.44

Cluster Physik you're a genius :)

[edit] 7 to 12 seconds a WU. Amazing!

Sorry, another edit - that's 4 WU at a time, which makes it an average of 3 seconds a WU or below. I can't get my head around this.

Hey, and I'm not even using the 4870
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Message 12162 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 21:03:44 UTC - in response to Message 12131.

Kudos to everyone involved!

Basically, that's just me ;)

But I guess you also have to thank the two guys from my team Planet3DNow! who didn't hesitate to test the very first incarnations of the app, when it did crash on virtually every WU and didn't delivered any results let alone credits. Thank you HiRN and L@MiR/Emploi!
You have to know I do the GPU coding in some kind of a vacuum. I don't have a compatible card yet to test it for myself. That will be some kind of a problem for the multi GPU stuff. We will see how this works out.

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Message 12166 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 21:06:55 UTC - in response to Message 12162.

Kudos to everyone involved!

Basically, that's just me ;)

But I guess you also have to thank the two guys from my team Planet3DNow! who didn't hesitate to test the very first incarnations of the app, when it did crash on virtually every WU and didn't delivered any results let alone credits. Thank you HiRN and L@MiR/Emploi!
You have to know I do the GPU coding in some kind of a vacuum. I don't have a compatible card yet to test it for myself. That will be some kind of a problem for the multi GPU stuff. We will see how this works out.

L@Mir? Fantistic! (Hello again :) and HiRN also - many thanks! :)


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Message 12167 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 21:07:49 UTC - in response to Message 12159.

7 to 12 seconds a WU. Amazing!

Sorry, another edit - that's 4 WU at a time, which makes it an average of 3 seconds a WU or below. I can't get my head around this.

Hey, and I'm not even using the 4870

Sorry, but it isn't that fast ;)
The CPU time gives a good indication for the throughput in the moment, in your case it means a WU finishes every 7 to 12 seconds, but not every 3. Take a stopwatch if you don't believe it ;)

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Message 12168 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 21:11:27 UTC - in response to Message 12167.
Last modified: 21 Feb 2009 | 21:15:39 UTC

7 to 12 seconds a WU. Amazing!

Sorry, another edit - that's 4 WU at a time, which makes it an average of 3 seconds a WU or below. I can't get my head around this.

Hey, and I'm not even using the 4870

Sorry, but it isn't that fast ;)
The CPU time gives a good indication for the throughput in the moment, in your case it means a WU finishes every 7 to 12 seconds, but not every 3. Take a stopwatch if you don't believe it ;)

Ah, I see, they took less than a minute so somewhere more around 25 seconds - without doing a precise test (I wish I had a stop watch....)

[edit] 4 ran in 64 seconds - that's 16 secs a WU. Is that about right?
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Message 12184 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 21:32:45 UTC - in response to Message 12168.
Last modified: 21 Feb 2009 | 21:34:28 UTC

Ah, I see, they took less than a minute so somewhere more around 25 seconds - without doing a precise test (I wish I had a stop watch....)

[edit] 4 ran in 64 seconds - that's 16 secs a WU. Is that about right?

For the longer dual stream WUs (12 to 13 credits) it is the right time for a HD4850 (a 4870 would be 20% faster). The shorter single stream WUs (~8 credits) should take 10 to 11 seconds or so on your card.

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Message 12186 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 21:36:48 UTC

BoincView looked like a scene from "The Shining" after I installed Catalyst 9.2, and I also noticed 0% load on the GPU. Reverted to 9.1, and the WUs again finished without errors. Has anyone else tried the latest incarnation of the driver?
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Message 12191 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 21:41:02 UTC - in response to Message 12184.

Ah, I see, they took less than a minute so somewhere more around 25 seconds - without doing a precise test (I wish I had a stop watch....)

[edit] 4 ran in 64 seconds - that's 16 secs a WU. Is that about right?

For the longer dual stream WUs (12 to 13 credits) it is the right time for a HD4850 (a 4870 would be 20% faster). The shorter single stream WUs (~8 credits) should take 10 to 11 seconds or so on your card.

Aha, you've worked out which card I have ;)

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Message 12194 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 21:45:54 UTC - in response to Message 12186.

BoincView looked like a scene from "The Shining" after I installed Catalyst 9.2, and I also noticed 0% load on the GPU. Reverted to 9.1, and the WUs again finished without errors. Has anyone else tried the latest incarnation of the driver?

I got the HD4850 today which came with the 8.5 catalyst driver. That didn't work. I then tried a 9.1 which wouldn't work at all, but I think it was for Vista (I have XP). I tried the 9.1 for XP and it worked, but it seemed like the 4 WUs were going to take forever. So finally I located the 8.12 driver for XP and it works a treat.

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Message 12205 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 22:04:15 UTC - in response to Message 12186.
Last modified: 21 Feb 2009 | 22:10:36 UTC

BoincView looked like a scene from "The Shining" after I installed Catalyst 9.2, and I also noticed 0% load on the GPU. Reverted to 9.1, and the WUs again finished without errors. Has anyone else tried the latest incarnation of the driver?

Just look here.

If you really want to use the Cat 9.2 driver, it should be possible to manually rename the three atical*.dll files in the Windows/system32 folder to amdcal*.dll. Someone in my team tried and it worked.

@Ice:
Could you add a note to zslip, that the Cat 9.2 is not working with the GPU application? And the older 0.17 GPU app is only available for Win64, not Win32/64 as stated there.

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Message 12208 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 22:11:23 UTC - in response to Message 12205.
Last modified: 21 Feb 2009 | 22:30:29 UTC

BoincView looked like a scene from "The Shining" after I installed Catalyst 9.2, and I also noticed 0% load on the GPU. Reverted to 9.1, and the WUs again finished without errors. Has anyone else tried the latest incarnation of the driver?

Just look here.

If you really want to use the Cat 9.2 driver, it should be possible to manually rename the three atical*.dll files in the Windows/system32 folder to amdcal*.dll. Someone in my team tried and it worked.

@Ice:
Could you add a note to zslip, that the Cat 9.2 is not working with the GPU application? And the older 0.17 GPU app is only available for Win64, not Win32/64 as stated there.

Sure, I'll do that

[edit] done
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Message 12231 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 23:13:11 UTC - in response to Message 12158.

But as the GPU app uses quite little CPU resources (the core used in the moment is mainly for polling the GPU, less than 2 seconds CPU time for a WU are really needed), there is the chance I can free up some of it. That would reduce the problem I guess.


The "ideal" is to use the IRQ so that there is zero load on the CPU unless it is needed. Though they have not shared technical details with the community it looks like that is what GPU Grid did... last month they were using idle polling and were consuming up to a whole core per GPU core. Then they made a change and the CPU time dropped to less than 1% ...

Small hit to speed where the application takes about 8-10% longer to run over 4-20 hours ... with 9-14 second run times I am not sure that I would even notice the change ... but, would have less load on the CPUs ...

If they are using the standard windows API to get the GPU id adding the ATI cards should be a no brainer, all it is is a different look-up table ... As I said in the other thread I sent them the notes on that but no reply so I don't know if they even looked at it or not ... in that I can't write C code no point in me trying ... but it does not look that hard to modify the BOINC software to pick up an ATI card ...

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Message 12242 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009 | 23:54:30 UTC - in response to Message 12231.

The "ideal" is to use the IRQ so that there is zero load on the CPU unless it is needed. Though they have not shared technical details with the community it looks like that is what GPU Grid did... last month they were using idle polling and were consuming up to a whole core per GPU core. Then they made a change and the CPU time dropped to less than 1% ...

I thought about a bit different and higher level solution to it. But it should be also quite effective.

1% CPU load is not possible with the current split of the work between GPU and CPU. I don't plan to change anything on that because the effort for doing the remaining 0.1% of the CPU calculations on the GPU appears to be too much. If all the more urgent issues are solved, maybe one can think about it again. But I doubt the conclusion will be much different.
One needs the CPU about half a second in the beginning and slightly more (about a second) at the end of a WU (scales with CPU speed of course). In between a CPU load of about 10% of a core or maybe even less should be doable.

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Message 12298 - Posted: 22 Feb 2009 | 4:20:27 UTC - in response to Message 12242.

The "ideal" is to use the IRQ so that there is zero load on the CPU unless it is needed. Though they have not shared technical details with the community it looks like that is what GPU Grid did... last month they were using idle polling and were consuming up to a whole core per GPU core. Then they made a change and the CPU time dropped to less than 1% ...

I thought about a bit different and higher level solution to it. But it should be also quite effective.

1% CPU load is not possible with the current split of the work between GPU and CPU. I don't plan to change anything on that because the effort for doing the remaining 0.1% of the CPU calculations on the GPU appears to be too much. If all the more urgent issues are solved, maybe one can think about it again. But I doubt the conclusion will be much different.
One needs the CPU about half a second in the beginning and slightly more (about a second) at the end of a WU (scales with CPU speed of course). In between a CPU load of about 10% of a core or maybe even less should be doable.


Then perhaps the next challenge is to make the ATI GPU recognized and managed by BOINC?

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Message 12301 - Posted: 22 Feb 2009 | 4:45:07 UTC - in response to Message 12298.

Then perhaps the next challenge is to make the ATI GPU recognized and managed by BOINC?

I've heard somewhere it will be in 6.7.

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Message 12360 - Posted: 22 Feb 2009 | 13:09:52 UTC
Last modified: 22 Feb 2009 | 13:10:19 UTC

I would like to know how much more productive it is expected to be a HD4870 versus a HD4850.

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Message 12367 - Posted: 22 Feb 2009 | 13:46:31 UTC - in response to Message 12360.
Last modified: 22 Feb 2009 | 13:51:06 UTC

I would like to know how much more productive it is expected to be a HD4870 versus a HD4850.

20%

As the number of shaders is identical for both cards, the difference comes just from the clock speed, 750 vs 625 MHz.
750/625 = 1.2

The higher memory bandwidth of the HD4870 is of no use for MW. It is not a limiting factor, that's the shader throughput.

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Message 12373 - Posted: 22 Feb 2009 | 15:15:02 UTC - in response to Message 12367.
Last modified: 22 Feb 2009 | 15:15:30 UTC

I would like to know how much more productive it is expected to be a HD4870 versus a HD4850.

20%

As the number of shaders is identical for both cards, the difference comes just from the clock speed, 750 vs 625 MHz.
750/625 = 1.2

The higher memory bandwidth of the HD4870 is of no use for MW. It is not a limiting factor, that's the shader throughput.

I take it the power of the host computer makes no difference, or does, for example, CPU or RAM in the computer make a difference to the card's performance?
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Message 12424 - Posted: 22 Feb 2009 | 20:00:35 UTC - in response to Message 12373.
Last modified: 22 Feb 2009 | 20:01:02 UTC

I would like to know how much more productive it is expected to be a HD4870 versus a HD4850.

20%

As the number of shaders is identical for both cards, the difference comes just from the clock speed, 750 vs 625 MHz.
750/625 = 1.2

The higher memory bandwidth of the HD4870 is of no use for MW. It is not a limiting factor, that's the shader throughput.

I take it the power of the host computer makes no difference, or does, for example, CPU or RAM in the computer make a difference to the card's performance?

Such a difference should be almost nonexistent as long as at least 2 WUs run concurrently. That enables the possibility to hide the CPU part of one WU during the GPU computations of another one.

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Message 12449 - Posted: 22 Feb 2009 | 22:24:28 UTC

the gpu app has been running a little funny today Normally it only runs one at a time this morning it was running 4-5 at a time and bogging down the system quite a bit. I rebooted and that seemed to fix it, for a little while but now it's not running at all, and has a message on a wu saying waiting to run (.50 cpus). Is it waiting for my other projects to finish up on the cpu for some reason even though it can run while they are still going?

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Message 12473 - Posted: 23 Feb 2009 | 1:09:42 UTC - in response to Message 12449.

the gpu app has been running a little funny today Normally it only runs one at a time this morning it was running 4-5 at a time and bogging down the system quite a bit. I rebooted and that seemed to fix it, for a little while but now it's not running at all, and has a message on a wu saying waiting to run (.50 cpus). Is it waiting for my other projects to finish up on the cpu for some reason even though it can run while they are still going?

These scheduling problems are caused by the fact that the BOINC Client does not know the app is running on the GPU. It is scheduled like a normal app running on the CPU.

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Message 12476 - Posted: 23 Feb 2009 | 2:02:42 UTC - in response to Message 12067.

i left it at 9.1 but took your advice of upping the fan speed. that's brought it down from ~83c to ~77c.

and it made it through the night without locking up. So it could be that it was overheating. But I had also upgraded to version .19. So, was there a change in there that corrected the problem?

either way, v.19 is working fine on an i7 and hd4870 with 512m

Besides the CPU detection nothing changed between 0.17 and 0.19. So maybe really a temperature problem.

But I have seen your crunch times are slightly on the high side. This could be caused by running too many WUs concurrently on the GPU. At a certain point the RAM on the graphics card is not sufficient for the number of WUs taking space there. Before it errors out (when even more WUs would be crunched), it slows down (probably some swapping over PCI-Express happens). And with 16 WUs it is getting already a bit crowded on a 512MB card.
Another reason for the higher times could be that the card runs downclocked in a power saving mode. Maybe you should check the clock speed of the card.

Furthermore you may think about attaching to a second BOINC project with that i7. This will reduce the number of MW WUs that are running a he same time, but not the throughput. You will still finish the same number of WUs per hour even with less concurrently running WUs. In fact, it could even rise in your case. Furthermore your CPU cores wouldn't be idling that much ;)



I enabled CPDN and ABC but MW always ran 16 apps, then would switch to 8 ABC, never sharing - it was like how the Cylons and Humans can't get along, it always had to be one or the other never both.

But with 16 MW's running it would eventually lock up. It really does look like a ram problem, the 512 really can't handle a constant run of 16 Apps of this length. Though I didn't have trouble earlier with the shorter apps.

So, what I finally did was reset boinc to only run with 6 CPU's max. Now with only 12 wu's running at a time, the GPU seems much happier and doesn't lock up. And the actual crunch times are significantly shorter with only the 12. 2 - 3 mintues compared to the 8 or 9 when running 16. And as you pointed out, I end up processing more wu's.

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Message 12492 - Posted: 23 Feb 2009 | 7:08:26 UTC - in response to Message 12476.

- it was like how the Cylons and Humans can't get along, it always had to be one or the other never both.

I've been running the HD4850 on version 0.19 for just over 24 hours now and the phrase 'running like the clappers' comes to mind ;) I've tried to share with CPDN, but it instantly drops from a rapid 4 x 0.5 CPU to a very slow 2 x 0.5 CPU. To be honest I can run CPDN on another box and the 4 x 0.5 clappers is more than enough throughput for me on this one box. However, if a way to share with the Cylons can be found, it would be nice ...

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Message 12575 - Posted: 23 Feb 2009 | 17:33:32 UTC

All right, got the GPU app working, under Windows 7 no less. Two problems: BOINC was using a protected install, and the DLLs for stream were missing. First was easy to correct with a reinstall, and the DLLs I tried grabbing from Vista x64, worked like a charm. So in exchange for some graphics performance, I get 4 ABC and 4 MW WUs running all at the same time. Great app Cluster Physik. ;)
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Message 12606 - Posted: 23 Feb 2009 | 19:01:26 UTC

Please, I need to know if the Win32/ATI/0.19 application will work under Vista 32 bits O.S. I have a just-bought hd4850 and I need to know it before I open the box breaking the seals

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Message 12637 - Posted: 23 Feb 2009 | 21:45:48 UTC

I have BOINC 6.4.5 installed as a protected service on XP64 (domain member), and it works a charm with Catalyst 8.12 (even 9.1) and the GPU app 0.19 (all hail Cluster Physik!).

However, I just tried to start BOINC Manager locally (rare event, I normally rely on BoincView from another computer rather than that useless PoS), and immediately this happened:

<message>
Incorrect function. (0x1) - exit code 1 (0x1)
</message>
<stderr_txt>
Running Milkyway@home ATI GPU application version 0.19 by Gipsel
CPU: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X3360 @ 2.83GHz (4 cores/threads) 4.00399 GHz (332ms)

No compatible GPU found!

</stderr_txt>


After i killed Boing Manager and rebooted, things went back to normal again. Repeating the excercise led to an identical outcome. No biggie, bit it did get my attention.
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Message 12663 - Posted: 24 Feb 2009 | 0:04:07 UTC - in response to Message 12575.

All right, got the GPU app working, under Windows 7 no less. Two problems: BOINC was using a protected install, and the DLLs for stream were missing. First was easy to correct with a reinstall, and the DLLs I tried grabbing from Vista x64, worked like a charm. So in exchange for some graphics performance, I get 4 ABC and 4 MW WUs running all at the same time. Great app Cluster Physik. ;)

Having discovered a stopwatch on my mobile phone I ran some tests and find that I can indeed run another project together with MW. I quite agree - Great app Cluster Physik. ;)

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Message 12674 - Posted: 24 Feb 2009 | 2:00:40 UTC

I previously tried Catalyst 9.1 for my HD4850 which crashed and left the MW tasks going snail-pace.

I also tried Catalyst 9.2 with the renames in Windows/System32, but it again crashed and snail-pace.

Reinstalled Catalyst 8.12 and everything is rippling again nicely ;)

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Message 12693 - Posted: 24 Feb 2009 | 7:33:06 UTC
Last modified: 24 Feb 2009 | 7:54:48 UTC

It worked great on Vista64, but on Xp32 I get always the same message : not requesting tasks ... the only solution I found was to suspend or delete the other projet (World Comm Grid).

I think this is a priority problem (100 for each, theorically 50% each).

Edit : I tried 100/900 (WCG/MW), but now it's running only WCG because of priority time... I try to suspend WCG.

Edit 2 : With only MW project, I get some workunits and then :

24/02/2009 08:53:11 Milkyway@home Sending scheduler request: Requested by user.
24/02/2009 08:53:11 Milkyway@home Reporting 3 completed tasks, requesting new tasks
24/02/2009 08:53:16 Milkyway@home Scheduler request completed: got 0 new tasks
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Message 12732 - Posted: 24 Feb 2009 | 16:57:44 UTC

Strange error message, also had 8 MW tasks with this error:

<message>
There are no child processes to wait for. (0x80) - exit code 128 (0x80)
</message>

Not sure if it is significant, or something to do with my computer going nuts on running the hard drive, or this is what caused my computer to run the hard drive ...

A reboot and some hand turning of tasks running and I seem to be back on the air ...

Not sure what it means, if it means anything, luck of the draw, bad day at black rock ...

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Message 12739 - Posted: 24 Feb 2009 | 17:53:50 UTC - in response to Message 12732.

Not sure what it means, if it means anything, luck of the draw, bad day at black rock ...


Bad day at black rock. If you're running the ATI then these tasks are over in a blink of an eye. Let them go. We cherish each one, I know. But there are many others to greet and to race by - in the blink of an eye...

;)

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Message 12754 - Posted: 24 Feb 2009 | 18:52:20 UTC - in response to Message 12739.

Not sure what it means, if it means anything, luck of the draw, bad day at black rock ...


Bad day at black rock. If you're running the ATI then these tasks are over in a blink of an eye. Let them go. We cherish each one, I know. But there are many others to greet and to race by - in the blink of an eye...

;)


Hmm, well, I don't know about that ... I blink slowly, but not THAT slowly ... :)

But you are right, I am too anal about losing the science ...

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Message 12759 - Posted: 24 Feb 2009 | 19:46:06 UTC - in response to Message 12754.

Not sure what it means, if it means anything, luck of the draw, bad day at black rock ...


Bad day at black rock. If you're running the ATI then these tasks are over in a blink of an eye. Let them go. We cherish each one, I know. But there are many others to greet and to race by - in the blink of an eye...

;)


Hmm, well, I don't know about that ... I blink slowly, but not THAT slowly ... :)

But you are right, I am too anal about losing the science ...

I know what you mean. I find it hard to micro manage so many machines, and especially have that 'Doh!' feeling when I find I've crunched the same CPDN WU and it ain't gonna give me no more credit the second time. I have to ditch some part run WUs 'just in case' I already finished them off somewhere else.

Oh the joy of short MW tasks :)

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Message 12774 - Posted: 24 Feb 2009 | 21:37:02 UTC

Well, I don't have that many systems any more ... the wife has been on me to cut back and I have been doing so ...

I am only running 6 systems now and actually should only be running 5 (I have had a linux system up for a month or so now from my graveyard) ... but, it has VP almost to 20K and WEP over 10K so it is about time to shut it down for the summer (The two projects I am running there)...

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Message 12800 - Posted: 25 Feb 2009 | 2:01:04 UTC - in response to Message 11965.

But could you please test that it runs at all?

Here's an update on the double-GPU HD4870X2 vs the single-GPU HD4870/1GB.

HD4870/1GB runs at its highest configured clock speeds when under load from the MW app. Partly OC'ed to 800/900 MHz (gpu/mem) this means 5-8 seconds per WU.

HD4870X2 runds at its idle clocks (500 MHz gpu) even with one GPU under load from MW, which means 8-12 seconds per WU. It seems that giving half the card something to do isn't enough to "wake it up" from idle/2D clocks. But yes, the GPU apps do work on this card as well, albeit somewhat slower than on its lesser sibling.
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Message 12855 - Posted: 25 Feb 2009 | 14:27:21 UTC
Last modified: 25 Feb 2009 | 14:27:53 UTC

I have a team mate that is having trouble.

He running Vista 32. He purchased a new HD 3850, BOINC 6.4.5

We have downloaded the Catalyst 8.12 and installed it. Installed the 0.19 version of the GPU app -

Everything looks fine. I have a couple boxes running so I got myself through the install, but I am not all that familiar with Vista so I don't know if this is a vista problem or something else.

Any Idea's ?

http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/results.php?hostid=45384

28 Feb 2009 6:16:38 UTC
CPU time 0.405603
stderr out

<core_client_version>6.4.5</core_client_version>
<![CDATA[
<message>
Incorrect function. (0x1) - exit code 1 (0x1)
</message>
<stderr_txt>
Running Milkyway@home ATI GPU application version 0.19 by Gipsel
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q6600 @ 2.40GHz (4 cores/threads) 2.39398 GHz (398ms)
CAL Runtime: 1.3.145
Found 0 CAL devices
No compatible GPU found!

</stderr_txt>
]]>

Validate state Invalid
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Message 12856 - Posted: 25 Feb 2009 | 15:25:13 UTC - in response to Message 12855.
Last modified: 25 Feb 2009 | 15:25:41 UTC

I have a team mate that is having trouble.

He running Vista 32.

Any Idea's ?
Found 0 CAL devices
No compatible GPU found!

Protected mode installation of BOINC is not going to work with GPU apps under Vista (same as CUDA). Or are you accessing the machine over a remote desktop connection?

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Message 12858 - Posted: 25 Feb 2009 | 15:34:34 UTC - in response to Message 12856.

I have a team mate that is having trouble.

He running Vista 32.

Any Idea's ?
Found 0 CAL devices
No compatible GPU found!

Protected mode installation of BOINC is not going to work with GPU apps under Vista (same as CUDA). Or are you accessing the machine over a remote desktop connection?


We did install BOINC in protected mode -

Let me give him a call and see if that fixes it.



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Message 12902 - Posted: 25 Feb 2009 | 23:54:35 UTC

@Cluster Physik

Just installed 19b, and have a couple comments ...

One, shouldn't the file names be set on zslip to reflect the content, ie: win64-19b? or something like that ...

B) the application name in the err out is still saying 19 ... I can tell it is different because of the new content ... but, should we also not be somehow indicating the incremented versions, if nothing else for troubleshooting purposes ...

4. Have you sent the detection code to UCB? We are at least two versions from when I sent them notes on OpenCL and "Brook" (and generic GPU identification using windows API), but it looks like someone has to do the dirty work ... and you already have ... (PM sent also about this)

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Message 12912 - Posted: 26 Feb 2009 | 0:19:16 UTC - in response to Message 12902.

@Cluster Physik

Just installed 19b, and have a couple comments ...

One, shouldn't the file names be set on zslip to reflect the content, ie: win64-19b? or something like that ...

I think that's a good comment and I can sort that out on zslip.

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Message 12915 - Posted: 26 Feb 2009 | 0:35:04 UTC - in response to Message 12912.

@Cluster Physik

Just installed 19b, and have a couple comments ...

One, shouldn't the file names be set on zslip to reflect the content, ie: win64-19b? or something like that ...

I think that's a good comment and I can sort that out on zslip.


Cool, I usually D/L and hang onto the versions till it is very clear that the new is the keeper. Just incase I have to back-level the application ... I do the same thing with BOINC Manager (in case they start to hide the old list, even paranoids have enemies) ... :)

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Message 12921 - Posted: 26 Feb 2009 | 1:33:13 UTC - in response to Message 12902.

@Cluster Physik

Just installed 19b, and have a couple comments ...

B) the application name in the err out is still saying 19 ... I can tell it is different because of the new content ... but, should we also not be somehow indicating the incremented versions, if nothing else for troubleshooting purposes ...

I thought the same and 0.19c and 0.19d (and future versions) identify themselves as such. And before someone is looking in the P3DNow! forum and is trying one of the newer versions, I can't recommend that. The multi GPU scheduler is not working correctly in the moment and trashes most WUs. So one should stay with 0.19b for the time being.

4. Have you sent the detection code to UCB? We are at least two versions from when I sent them notes on OpenCL and "Brook" (and generic GPU identification using windows API), but it looks like someone has to do the dirty work ... and you already have ... (PM sent also about this)

No, I didn't send it. But I've heard they got already some detection code. If all goes well it will be integrated in version 6.7 in the next month.

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Message 12922 - Posted: 26 Feb 2009 | 1:47:55 UTC - in response to Message 12915.

@Cluster Physik

Just installed 19b, and have a couple comments ...

One, shouldn't the file names be set on zslip to reflect the content, ie: win64-19b? or something like that ...

I think that's a good comment and I can sort that out on zslip.


Cool, I usually D/L and hang onto the versions till it is very clear that the new is the keeper. Just incase I have to back-level the application ... I do the same thing with BOINC Manager (in case they start to hide the old list, even paranoids have enemies) ... :)

OK, zslip is updated so that the filenames also include OS, whether ATI, 32 or 64 bit, and version number.

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Message 12932 - Posted: 26 Feb 2009 | 5:04:26 UTC - in response to Message 12921.

No, I didn't send it. But I've heard they got already some detection code. If all goes well it will be integrated in version 6.7 in the next month.


Maybe yours is better ... :)

It could not hurt ...

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Message 12933 - Posted: 26 Feb 2009 | 7:24:35 UTC - in response to Message 12242.

1% CPU load is not possible with the current split of the work between GPU and CPU. I don't plan to change anything on that because the effort for doing the remaining 0.1% of the CPU calculations on the GPU appears to be too much. If all the more urgent issues are solved, maybe one can think about it again. But I doubt the conclusion will be much different.
One needs the CPU about half a second in the beginning and slightly more (about a second) at the end of a WU (scales with CPU speed of course). In between a CPU load of about 10% of a core or maybe even less should be doable.

Does it makes sense to compile ATI GPU version with CPU SSSE3, SSE4.1 and/or SSE4.2 instructions? Or at least try to see how it would behave...
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Message 12936 - Posted: 26 Feb 2009 | 8:10:40 UTC - in response to Message 12933.

Does it makes sense to compile ATI GPU version with CPU SSSE3, SSE4.1 and/or SSE4.2 instructions? Or at least try to see how it would behave...

No sorry, the ATI would never fit into my Core 2 SFF, there is not enough room inside and I couldn't get the lid back on, no way ;)

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Message 13441 - Posted: 1 Mar 2009 | 1:12:37 UTC - in response to Message 12933.
Last modified: 1 Mar 2009 | 1:13:20 UTC

1% CPU load is not possible with the current split of the work between GPU and CPU. I don't plan to change anything on that because the effort for doing the remaining 0.1% of the CPU calculations on the GPU appears to be too much. If all the more urgent issues are solved, maybe one can think about it again. But I doubt the conclusion will be much different.
One needs the CPU about half a second in the beginning and slightly more (about a second) at the end of a WU (scales with CPU speed of course). In between a CPU load of about 10% of a core or maybe even less should be doable.

Does it makes sense to compile ATI GPU version with CPU SSSE3, SSE4.1 and/or SSE4.2 instructions? Or at least try to see how it would behave...

The really needed CPU time per WU is about one second or so. The remaining one is just for polling the GPU, which is not going to be faster with SSEx. As the speed increases with anything above SSE2 (used by the GPU app) are minor ones, one could maybe shave off a tenth of a second. Hardly worth it.

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Message 13560 - Posted: 1 Mar 2009 | 22:57:39 UTC - in response to Message 12800.

But could you please test that it runs at all?

Here's an update on the double-GPU HD4870X2 vs the single-GPU HD4870/1GB.

HD4870/1GB runs at its highest configured clock speeds when under load from the MW app. Partly OC'ed to 800/900 MHz (gpu/mem) this means 5-8 seconds per WU.

HD4870X2 runds at its idle clocks (500 MHz gpu) even with one GPU under load from MW, which means 8-12 seconds per WU. It seems that giving half the card something to do isn't enough to "wake it up" from idle/2D clocks. But yes, the GPU apps do work on this card as well, albeit somewhat slower than on its lesser sibling.


Brickhead, what your saying is that your only running on one side of the x2 Video Card, but how many WU's are you running @ once with it by it's self or running another Project with it ???

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Message 13571 - Posted: 1 Mar 2009 | 23:36:17 UTC
Last modified: 1 Mar 2009 | 23:37:21 UTC

Oh shock horror, hooray :D I've got Catalyst 9.2 working.

[edit] with a HD4870 / 0.19
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Message 13577 - Posted: 2 Mar 2009 | 0:28:15 UTC - in response to Message 13571.
Last modified: 2 Mar 2009 | 0:28:30 UTC

Oh shock horror, hooray :D I've got Catalyst 9.2 working.

[edit] with a HD4870 / 0.19

A bit of a strange pattern of crunching at first and then when I tried to run a CPDN WU the 4 MW just froze. I then suspended one of them and the other 3 set off working. Now it's settled down to a pattern of 2 MW WU's crunching every 40ish seconds and a CPDN WU crunching away every 436 hours.

I think that's slower that using using version 9.1 (not referring to CPDN), but then I'm not sure how long these new WUs take now.
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Message 13608 - Posted: 2 Mar 2009 | 7:28:03 UTC - in response to Message 13577.
Last modified: 2 Mar 2009 | 7:32:38 UTC

Oh shock horror, hooray :D I've got Catalyst 9.2 working.

[edit] with a HD4870 / 0.19

A bit of a strange pattern of crunching at first and then when I tried to run a CPDN WU the 4 MW just froze. I then suspended one of them and the other 3 set off working. Now it's settled down to a pattern of 2 MW WU's crunching every 40ish seconds and a CPDN WU crunching away every 436 hours.

I think that's slower that using using version 9.1 (not referring to CPDN), but then I'm not sure how long these new WUs take now.

I took it back to 9.1 and the 8.12 and with both it seemed slower than 9.2. I think it's these longer work units which I haven't baselined for myself yet.

I've taken it back to 9.2 and it's been running overnight just fine with what seems to be good performance. It just seemed to take a little while to settle downn - a CPDN WU is crunching alongside 3 MW WUs nicely, all running with BOINC 6.4.6 (XP pro).
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Message 13620 - Posted: 2 Mar 2009 | 10:57:03 UTC
Last modified: 2 Mar 2009 | 11:26:12 UTC

Maybe i found a bug in gpu application 19d.
I have a host with 2 active project: abc and gpu milkyway.
set [ncpus] to 6 in cc_config.xml
in app_info.xml milkyway set n4 w1.1
If all right we have 4 abc workunit running, and 4 milkiway.
if i push button suspend to abc, i have 4 running mw application, and 4 mw application wait.
if next push resume to abc, i have 4 running abc application and all mw application in wait state. 4 mw app running but no progress.

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Message 13653 - Posted: 2 Mar 2009 | 16:21:24 UTC - in response to Message 13620.
Last modified: 2 Mar 2009 | 16:28:28 UTC

Maybe i found a bug in gpu application 19d.
I have a host with 2 active project: abc and gpu milkyway.
set [ncpus] to 6 in cc_config.xml
in app_info.xml milkyway set n4 w1.1
If all right we have 4 abc workunit running, and 4 milkiway.
if i push button suspend to abc, i have 4 running mw application, and 4 mw application wait.
if next push resume to abc, i have 4 running abc application and all mw application in wait state. 4 mw app running but no progress.

I see. Basically that is a problem with some interference of the BOINC scheduler and the one build into the GPU app. If the WU, which owns the GPU in the moment gets evicted by the BOINC scheduler, the other WUs still "think" it is running, using the GPU and do not start. This behaviour should go away, if you disable the "leave aplications in memory" option. That way, the paused WUs are really stopped and not just suspended.
But maybe easier, just don't fiddle around with suspending projects ;)

PS:
I still don't get why people raise the number of concurrent WUs. Two are really enough for maximum efficiency. So even taking the start/finishing of WUs into account, you will never need more than 3 WUs (default value) for maximum efficiency of the GPU. It would be better for the throughput, if you lower the wait factor closer to 1. Or are you just trying to avoid the eviction of WUs by the boinc manager?

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Message 13662 - Posted: 2 Mar 2009 | 16:49:01 UTC - in response to Message 13653.
Last modified: 2 Mar 2009 | 17:04:06 UTC

w1.1 use to down gpu usage and sluggish behaviour of the user interface This is my home computer, and some time i am watching movie and doing something like that.

n4 using only while playing this parameter to try down sluggish behaviour.
And am am using n4 to calculate the time of crunching 1 wu. If i understand right while mw application wait, timer af "wall clock time" working.

Can i use second ati card not supported by your application to connect monitor and dont have sluggish behaviour of the user interface?

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Message 13664 - Posted: 2 Mar 2009 | 17:00:36 UTC

I still don't get why people raise the number of concurrent WUs. Two are really enough for maximum efficiency. So even taking the start/finishing of WUs into account, you will never need more than 3 WUs (default value) for maximum efficiency of the GPU. It would be better for the throughput, if you lower the wait factor closer to 1. Or are you just trying to avoid the eviction of WUs by the boinc manager?


I agree, more in this case isn't neccessaraly better I have found right from the git go ... I'm running 3&3 3 MWay's & 3 Regular Wu's and getting 85,000-90,000 Per Day from 1 Card (4870 512mb with no Overclocking) ...

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Message 13667 - Posted: 2 Mar 2009 | 17:29:42 UTC - in response to Message 13664.

I'm running 3&3 3 MWay's & 3 Regular Wu's and getting 85,000-90,000 Per Day from 1 Card (4870 512mb with no Overclocking) ...


That's crazy. :P It puts my 1 pc to shame. In 2 days you can put out more than my overall total, I did ~50k all of last year. I need a Gpu...(sigh).
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Message 13686 - Posted: 2 Mar 2009 | 18:58:32 UTC - in response to Message 13653.


PS:
I still don't get why people raise the number of concurrent WUs. Two are really enough for maximum efficiency. So even taking the start/finishing of WUs into account, you will never need more than 3 WUs (default value) for maximum efficiency of the GPU. It would be better for the throughput, if you lower the wait factor closer to 1. Or are you just trying to avoid the eviction of WUs by the boinc manager?

I don't understand the settings in the BOINC parameters, something to get into at some time, but I may have a tip that may work for others. I'm trying to get MW to run with another task, eg, CPDN, but usually 4 MW are running on their own. Not efficient as you pointed out Cluster Physik.

So what I do is put MW on suspend, two CPDN tasks run (I'm hyper-threading). Then I resume the CPDN project. 4 MW tasks then 'freeze'. I then suspend one of the CPDN tasks and have two MW and one CPDN crunching away nicely.

When things don't look right, exit the BOINC manager and restart it - that usually sorts it out for me.

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Message 13687 - Posted: 2 Mar 2009 | 19:07:08 UTC - in response to Message 13667.
Last modified: 2 Mar 2009 | 19:08:07 UTC

I'm running 3&3 3 MWay's & 3 Regular Wu's and getting 85,000-90,000 Per Day from 1 Card (4870 512mb with no Overclocking) ...


That's crazy. :P It puts my 1 pc to shame. In 2 days you can put out more than my overall total, I did ~50k all of last year. I need a Gpu...(sigh).

It's still about contributing what you can/want. Even with GPU, both ATI and nVidia, I'm still crunching the old fashioned way with actual computers and laptop ;P
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Message 13708 - Posted: 2 Mar 2009 | 21:43:57 UTC - in response to Message 13653.

This behaviour should go away, if you disable the "leave aplications in memory" option. That way, the paused WUs are really stopped and not just suspended.


I set this option to disable, update project and try to suspend.
Then i suspend abc, application remove from memory.
But if suspend MW, all aplication leave in memory and not remove.

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Message 13713 - Posted: 2 Mar 2009 | 23:30:36 UTC - in response to Message 13560.

Brickhead, what your saying is that your only running on one side of the x2 Video Card, but how many WU's are you running @ once with it by it's self or running another Project with it ???

Doesn't matter. I've tried anything up to four WUs at once. GPU0 gets all the load it needs, and GPU1 remains idle. No surprise, given that multi-GPU functionality isn't built into 0.19 or 0.19b.

I am however testing a new development version which supports multiple GPUs. Not quite the doctor's order, as the combined load still doesn't exceed what would fit in one GPU. So no practical improvement for X2 cards or crossfire yet AFAIK, but still an important step forward. I'm confident that our mastermind Cluster Physik will eventually be victorious in the battle against cold GPUs :)

I do run four other projects in addition to MW on this quad-core dual-GPU machine, and by assigning resources 400 (MW) : 4 x 100 (others), I've managed to get 4 MW WUs running alongside 4 from the other projects. I had to set avg_ncpus very low (value * number_of_GPU_WUs_at_once < 1) to tell the BOINC CC that there is no need to kick any of the 4 "foreign" WUs to accomodate 4 MW WUs at the same time, in order to have all eight *running* simultaneously.
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Message 13723 - Posted: 3 Mar 2009 | 1:08:57 UTC

Okay, was just curious, so far I've just stuck with the single core cards but when dual core is enabled I may get one ... Thanks

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Message 13816 - Posted: 4 Mar 2009 | 1:38:31 UTC
Last modified: 4 Mar 2009 | 1:39:44 UTC

I tried to get ATI Card to run the Milkyway WU's on the Linux side of a Dual Boot Windows/Linux Box but so far no luck. I installed the Linux 8.12 Drivers or at least I thought I did because everything seemed to go alright & the ATI Counsel showed up. I did it from the Terminal because when I tried to install them from a Counsel I got a error message saying something about a wrong ID.

Anyway the Milkyway WU's run but Dog Slow at best, about 30 min's Per WU so I'm assuming something isn't right & their not running on the ATI Card but the CPU side instead ... So I booted back into Windows until I can get it figured out, any ideas on whats wrong would be helpful ...

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Message 13845 - Posted: 4 Mar 2009 | 10:09:05 UTC - in response to Message 13816.

I tried to get ATI Card to run the Milkyway WU's on the Linux side of a Dual Boot Windows/Linux Box but so far no luck. I installed the Linux 8.12 Drivers or at least I thought I did because everything seemed to go alright & the ATI Counsel showed up. I did it from the Terminal because when I tried to install them from a Counsel I got a error message saying something about a wrong ID.

Anyway the Milkyway WU's run but Dog Slow at best, about 30 min's Per WU so I'm assuming something isn't right & their not running on the ATI Card but the CPU side instead ... So I booted back into Windows until I can get it figured out, any ideas on whats wrong would be helpful ...

If you take a look at zslip you will see that the ATI cards and the optimization files made available for MilkyWay are only available to Windows 32 and 64 bit. No mention of it working for Linux, and none that I have heard about.

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Message 13851 - Posted: 4 Mar 2009 | 13:10:15 UTC

I could have sworn I seen a post by somebody saying they got some app to work in Linux but could be mistaken, anywho I didn't pay attention when I downloaded the Linux App, just thought it was for running the ATI Cards ... :)

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Message 13861 - Posted: 4 Mar 2009 | 15:25:27 UTC - in response to Message 13851.

I could have sworn I seen a post by somebody saying they got some app to work in Linux but could be mistaken, anywho I didn't pay attention when I downloaded the Linux App, just thought it was for running the ATI Cards ... :)

There are certainly optimized apps for Linux by speedimic, but I don't think he's gotten round to ATI GPU, but I don't have Linux myself and I really don't know.

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Message 13967 - Posted: 5 Mar 2009 | 11:36:16 UTC - in response to Message 13861.

I could have sworn I seen a post by somebody saying they got some app to work in Linux but could be mistaken, anywho I didn't pay attention when I downloaded the Linux App, just thought it was for running the ATI Cards ... :)

There are certainly optimized apps for Linux by speedimic, but I don't think he's gotten round to ATI GPU, but I don't have Linux myself and I really don't know.


LOL, haven't even gotten round getting me a ati/nvidia card... only low-budget-onboard stuff here.
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Message 13981 - Posted: 5 Mar 2009 | 14:42:11 UTC - in response to Message 13967.


LOL, haven't even gotten round getting me a ati/nvidia card...

The development of apps for GPU is really quite recent. If I recall, it is less than 6 weeks or so when there was talk about ATI being faster than nvidia, and someone ought to develop an app based on the ATI cards...

Come on speedimic, you're missing the fun :P

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Message 13983 - Posted: 5 Mar 2009 | 14:56:50 UTC - in response to Message 13981.


Come on speedimic, you're missing the fun :P


ATM I'm missing the money...
Just got my '83 BMW M3 out of winter sleep - gotta invest in fuel now. ;-)

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Message 13987 - Posted: 5 Mar 2009 | 15:00:59 UTC - in response to Message 13983.


Come on speedimic, you're missing the fun :P


ATM I'm missing the money...
Just got my '83 BMW M3 out of winter sleep - gotta invest in fuel now. ;-)

Awww, and there's me forgoing the lens I've been lusting for to buy plastic bricks that can't even autofocus :~p

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Message 13990 - Posted: 5 Mar 2009 | 15:03:16 UTC - in response to Message 13983.


Come on speedimic, you're missing the fun :P


ATM I'm missing the money...
Just got my '83 BMW M3 out of winter sleep - gotta invest in fuel now. ;-)


I know what you mean...fuel (& fun) or everything else.
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Message 14006 - Posted: 5 Mar 2009 | 16:57:46 UTC


I have been running v .17 is there any benefit in spending the time to upgrade to 19 or 19b -

I also do not see a download on zslip for anything more recent that 19b... isn't there a 19d ?
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Message 14017 - Posted: 5 Mar 2009 | 17:58:46 UTC - in response to Message 14006.


I have been running v .17 is there any benefit in spending the time to upgrade to 19 or 19b -

I also do not see a download on zslip for anything more recent that 19b... isn't there a 19d ?

0.19d is still under develpment/test for multi-GPUs. I can't say about 0.17 v 0.19/b

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Message 14025 - Posted: 5 Mar 2009 | 18:55:14 UTC - in response to Message 14006.


I have been running v .17 is there any benefit in spending the time to upgrade to 19 or 19b -

I also do not see a download on zslip for anything more recent that 19b... isn't there a 19d ?

The changes to 0.17 is only the CPU (0.19) and GPU detection (0.19b) output to stderr.txt visible under the task details. The calculation stuff is unchanged.

Version 0.19d does not use a full core anymore (down to 10% or even less) and was supposed to add some experimental multi GPU support. But the latter isn't really working, yet.

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Message 14045 - Posted: 5 Mar 2009 | 21:26:47 UTC - in response to Message 14025.

Version 0.19d does not use a full core anymore (down to 10% or even less) and was supposed to add some experimental multi GPU support. But the latter isn't really working, yet.


In that seems to be taking a little longer than expected ... any chance of a 19d without it so we can get the lower CPU use?

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Message 14095 - Posted: 6 Mar 2009 | 8:18:00 UTC - in response to Message 14045.

Version 0.19d does not use a full core anymore (down to 10% or even less) and was supposed to add some experimental multi GPU support. But the latter isn't really working, yet.


In that seems to be taking a little longer than expected ... any chance of a 19d without it so we can get the lower CPU use?

I'm on a conference this week. I can't do much here. But 0.19d is floating around already (it is usable, even on a multi GPU setup, it just doesn't use multiple GPUs to the full extent). So if Ice wants he can put it on zslip. He has it already.

Alternatively, you can use this link. Be sure to read the included readme.txt!

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Message 14099 - Posted: 6 Mar 2009 | 8:57:23 UTC - in response to Message 14095.

Be sure to read the included readme.txt!

I read it

Code: Gipsel
Test: HiRN, Emploi and a lot of other people of Team Planet3DNow!, www.planet3dnow.de

Thanks guys and gals! Much appreciated.

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Message 14102 - Posted: 6 Mar 2009 | 9:41:05 UTC - in response to Message 14095.

0.19d is floating around already (it is usable, even on a multi GPU setup, it just doesn't use multiple GPUs to the full extent). So if Ice wants he can put it on zslip. He has it already.


0.19d is now on zslip - thanks Cluster Physik.

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Message 14110 - Posted: 6 Mar 2009 | 10:38:00 UTC - in response to Message 14102.

0.19d is floating around already (it is usable, even on a multi GPU setup, it just doesn't use multiple GPUs to the full extent). So if Ice wants he can put it on zslip. He has it already.


0.19d is now on zslip - thanks Cluster Physik.

Maybe it would be better to advertise it with "lower CPU load" and not multi GPU, as this is not really working.

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Message 14111 - Posted: 6 Mar 2009 | 10:39:39 UTC - in response to Message 14110.
Last modified: 6 Mar 2009 | 10:42:27 UTC

0.19d is floating around already (it is usable, even on a multi GPU setup, it just doesn't use multiple GPUs to the full extent). So if Ice wants he can put it on zslip. He has it already.


0.19d is now on zslip - thanks Cluster Physik.

Maybe it would be better to advertise it with "lower CPU load" and not multi GPU, as this is not really working.

OK - done
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Message 14146 - Posted: 6 Mar 2009 | 18:44:57 UTC

Thank you for the update...

Downloaded and installed 19d. Love the new options ... now I need to play with them to see if I can keep it working as I like...

Of course, Comcast has gifted me service intermittancy this day to help me stay rested and happy ... GRRRR ...

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Message 14247 - Posted: 7 Mar 2009 | 15:18:51 UTC

The GPU app is bloody awesome Cluster Physik! Thank you for taking the time to put it together!

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Message 14560 - Posted: 9 Mar 2009 | 20:07:49 UTC

Will this app ever be able to be run on an HD4670?

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Message 14565 - Posted: 9 Mar 2009 | 20:15:33 UTC - in response to Message 14560.

Will this app ever be able to be run on an HD4670?

No, the underlying hardware does not support double precision calculations.

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Message 15897 - Posted: 18 Mar 2009 | 1:44:02 UTC

Any news on Linux version? Booting to Windows is like return to 19th Century for me. ;-)
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Message 15925 - Posted: 18 Mar 2009 | 6:09:26 UTC

One more question - how do you prevent other project to soak all cache for WUs? I want to crunch Einstein on CPU along with Milky on GPU, but Milky is limited for 6 WUs/CPU, then Einstein fills up the cache (I have it set for 1 day) and then Milky does not request more work. I had to put No New Work for Einstein and suspend couple of its WUs to keep GPU busy.

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Message 15929 - Posted: 18 Mar 2009 | 7:57:32 UTC - in response to Message 15925.

One more question - how do you prevent other project to soak all cache for WUs? I want to crunch Einstein on CPU along with Milky on GPU, but Milky is limited for 6 WUs/CPU, then Einstein fills up the cache (I have it set for 1 day) and then Milky does not request more work. I had to put No New Work for Einstein and suspend couple of its WUs to keep GPU busy.

I have that problem on my quad. I've set the resource share for MW above 50% and limited it to using only 1 CPU to try to overcome this problem. Has worked pretty well, but BOINC still doesn't increase the MW debt sufficiently well since once MW runs out of work it tends to reset the debt. Stupid system....

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Message 15939 - Posted: 18 Mar 2009 | 10:32:14 UTC

Like TGG, I have my resource share set to a level where it is near 50% on a quad system with the ATI GPU ... MW runs MOST of the time ... but I have "boom and Bust" queues and times when the GPU app is preempted by CPU only tasks of other projects.

THAT said, I still have decent daily earnings so am leaving well enough alone as tinkering with the numbers and settings did not do much to change matters. We need to get the developers to finish messing up the work fetch policy and get it working so that we can have the ATI GPU recognized as a resource by BOINC...

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Message 16003 - Posted: 19 Mar 2009 | 2:06:32 UTC - in response to Message 15925.

One more question - how do you prevent other project to soak all cache for WUs? I want to crunch Einstein on CPU along with Milky on GPU, but Milky is limited for 6 WUs/CPU, then Einstein fills up the cache (I have it set for 1 day) and then Milky does not request more work. I had to put No New Work for Einstein and suspend couple of its WUs to keep GPU busy.

I have also run into this problem And have tried several different combo's with very little luck..........I found what works best for me is 6.5.0 boinc and the new 19e.....I have it set to run 4 gpu projects and 4 cpu projects and that seems to make everything play nice together..........

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Message 16005 - Posted: 19 Mar 2009 | 2:25:38 UTC - in response to Message 16003.

One more question - how do you prevent other project to soak all cache for WUs? I want to crunch Einstein on CPU along with Milky on GPU, but Milky is limited for 6 WUs/CPU, then Einstein fills up the cache (I have it set for 1 day) and then Milky does not request more work. I had to put No New Work for Einstein and suspend couple of its WUs to keep GPU busy.

I have also run into this problem And have tried several different combo's with very little luck..........I found what works best for me is 6.5.0 boinc and the new 19e.....I have it set to run 4 gpu projects and 4 cpu projects and that seems to make everything play nice together..........

I've gotta stop using the development versions in the vain hope that one day it will work right. I can't recall the last time I believed the work fetch policy, resource share and debt system worked like I thought it would/should. Time to send an email to the alpha mailing list.

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Message 16010 - Posted: 19 Mar 2009 | 4:05:23 UTC - in response to Message 15925.

One more question - how do you prevent other project to soak all cache for WUs? I want to crunch Einstein on CPU along with Milky on GPU, but Milky is limited for 6 WUs/CPU, then Einstein fills up the cache (I have it set for 1 day) and then Milky does not request more work. I had to put No New Work for Einstein and suspend couple of its WUs to keep GPU busy.


One word: VirtualBox

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Message 16130 - Posted: 19 Mar 2009 | 23:31:14 UTC - in response to Message 16005.


I've gotta stop using the development versions in the vain hope that one day it will work right. I can't recall the last time I believed the work fetch policy, resource share and debt system worked like I thought it would/should. Time to send an email to the alpha mailing list.

I think that every machine is different and you just have to play around to find the combo that works best for that computer...

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Message 16159 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009 | 4:50:20 UTC

Has anyone else had any issues with .19e? I just started using it today and ran into a problem. I have my pc set to turn off my monitor when I'm idle for 20mins and every time i come back to my pc after this it has rebooted with an error. .19e does seem to run smoother, but i switched back to .19d for the time being. I'm running vista 64 with the 8.12 driver.

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Message 16174 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009 | 9:55:39 UTC - in response to Message 16159.

I just started using it today and ran into a problem. I have my pc set to turn off my monitor when I'm idle for 20mins and every time i come back to my pc after this it has rebooted with an error.

Then disable that setting and turn off your monitor by hand ;)

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Message 16207 - Posted: 20 Mar 2009 | 15:53:32 UTC - in response to Message 16159.

I do not have any issues with 19.e version, runs smoothly without issues, just Milky server does not send work constantly during the day. My screensaver is set to 10 minutes, WinXP32bit home, ATI 3850, Catalyst 8.12. I am patiently waiting for Linux version.

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Message 16360 - Posted: 21 Mar 2009 | 1:08:18 UTC - in response to Message 16159.

Has anyone else had any issues with .19e? I just started using it today and ran into a problem. I have my pc set to turn off my monitor when I'm idle for 20mins and every time i come back to my pc after this it has rebooted with an error. .19e does seem to run smoother, but i switched back to .19d for the time being. I'm running vista 64 with the 8.12 driver.
I am running the same versions as you are and haven't had a problem so far....My monitor is set to turn off in 5 minutes.....

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Message 16370 - Posted: 21 Mar 2009 | 3:31:53 UTC

I have Windows7 machine available with 4870x2 graphics and it is said in the manual that Catalyst driver is not fully installed in Windows7 and needs manual extraction of three files in order to make MW work. It says in Readme file:

Note on Windows 7:

The Catalyst driver does not install the CAL libraries on Windows 7. One has to extract them from
the driver package (usually using the expand command) and put them in the Windows\system32 folder.
The needed files are (the suffix "64" applies only to 64Bit systems):

amdcalrt.dll or amdcalrt64.dll
amdcalcl.dll or amdcalcl64.dll
amdcaldd.dll or amdcaldd64.dll

I have tried expander.exe command line extraction the way Microsoft describes on their website, but it showed "unable to open Catalyst.exe" file. How can I extract those three files from the Catalyst installation package? Could somebody put exact describtion of extraction, or even extract and hang those three files online for download in a ZIP file for both 32 and 64 bits?
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Message 16400 - Posted: 21 Mar 2009 | 8:05:27 UTC - in response to Message 16370.

I have Windows7 machine available with 4870x2 graphics and it is said in the manual that Catalyst driver is not fully installed in Windows7 and needs manual extraction of three files in order to make MW work. It says in Readme file: ..

Just use the new Catalyst 9.3 (has official Win7 support). Then you only have to copy and rename the files as described for Cat 9.2.

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Message 16834 - Posted: 25 Mar 2009 | 18:26:23 UTC

Just setting up a box for a friend - and could not resist to try his 4850. :))

Well, reading about it is definetly different to seeing it... this IS fast.

I gess I got to my one too. Any recommendations? I'm not looking for the fastest, more like "best bang for the buck"
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Message 17685 - Posted: 5 Apr 2009 | 23:35:34 UTC - in response to Message 16834.

4850 X2 from saphhire here... Vista64, 9.3 driver.... 0.19e gpu client... no problems... great bang for the buck once enough GPU wus are available.

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Message 22767 - Posted: 20 May 2009 | 3:09:42 UTC

I've successfully used the latest official Catalyst 9.5 for Windows 7 64 with my HD 4870. You still need to recreate the same three missing dll files.

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Message 22885 - Posted: 21 May 2009 | 12:42:51 UTC

I don't know if it's useful to say that, but a friend tested the optimization with a Radeon HD 4890, and it works very well. 5-8 seconds by workunit.
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Message 23081 - Posted: 23 May 2009 | 2:41:14 UTC - in response to Message 22767.

I've successfully used the latest official Catalyst 9.5 for Windows 7 64 with my HD 4870. You still need to recreate the same three missing dll files.

Hi people,
I have a problem with the last catalyst 9.5 for Win 7 x64.
I reinstalled OS from Beta (using 8.12 and x64 ATI GPU app with no serious problems) to RC1 version.
But I can´t find any aticalX64 dll in the system after driver installation (only 3 "normal" aticalx dll in the Windows/System 32 folder). I tried make copy and renamed this dll, but all workunits with x64ATI GPU application are crashed. It works only with (the change to) 32b_ATI_SSE2e in the project directory! :/ Response of the OS is worse, than before reinstalling :( and I´m confused, because I tried new re-installing of drivers and OS without progress :(
Needs the x64 ATI GPU app the ati&amdcalrt64.dll, ati&amdcalcl64.dll and ati&amdcaldd64.dll in the Windows/System 32 folder?

(Win 7 64 bit, Q6600, 6 GB RAM, ATI 4870, cat. 9.5 for Win 7 x64)

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Message 23083 - Posted: 23 May 2009 | 3:41:35 UTC - in response to Message 23081.

It sounds like you installed the 32-bit version instead as installed the 64-bit version on my system and got the 64-bit .dll's
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Message 23105 - Posted: 23 May 2009 | 14:18:11 UTC

Few hours without sleep and the repeated "fresh" installation of Win 7 RC1 x64 and old catalyst 9.1 without copying and renaming dll files have been solved the "x64 GPU ATI app" problem.

Still, I have a few questions.
1. Have you (and where) in Windows System, in the case of win 7 x64 and 9.5 catalyst - aticalx64 or amdcalx64 dll files?
2. In the same case (win.,cat.), which 3 files are missing and need recreating (?copying, renaming and putting them?)?

Thanks for the answer.

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Message 23132 - Posted: 23 May 2009 | 17:36:45 UTC - in response to Message 23105.

ATI/AMD renamed the CAL libraries with the latest driver release. To get the GPU app running,
duplicate the following files in your Windows\system32 folder (the suffix "64" applies only to
64Bit systems):

aticalrt.dll or aticalrt64.dll
aticalcl.dll or aticalcl64.dll
aticaldd.dll or aticaldd64.dll

Now Rename the copies to

amdcalrt.dll or amdcalrt64.dll
amdcalcl.dll or amdcalcl64.dll
amdcaldd.dll or amdcaldd64.dll
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Message 23142 - Posted: 23 May 2009 | 21:44:41 UTC
Last modified: 23 May 2009 | 21:48:36 UTC

arkayn: this readme text isn´t helpful to me (1 day ago), therefore 2 follow up questions for x64 Win 7 and catalyst 9.5

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Message 26342 - Posted: 23 Jun 2009 | 23:01:10 UTC - in response to Message 10070.

So triple 4870's are out of the question for now I see :)
I have an linux box with a 3870 and Ubuntu 64bit with Cat 9.1 set up when you get around to a linux app.


Ditto!

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Message 29510 - Posted: 20 Aug 2009 | 10:14:10 UTC
Last modified: 20 Aug 2009 | 10:34:41 UTC

I know this thread is old but I didn't know where else to post my problem.

I don't understand how this programme works. I have a 4870 and would love to use that to help out but when I put the programme directory (win64) in the Milkyway project directory or copy the files to the project directory the files corrupt.

Can someone post a step by step guide, if possible?

Thank you very much.

What I forgot to mention is that the astronomy_0.19_ATI_x64f file always reports that the three AMD files are missing, no matter where I place them or however many times I copy them to the system32 folder.

I am running Vista64 with the 9.7 drivers. I can't downgrade to the 8.12 as the 8.12 constantly crash my PC (ATI drivers stop working).

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Message 29511 - Posted: 20 Aug 2009 | 10:58:38 UTC - in response to Message 29510.

I don't understand how this programme works. I have a 4870 and would love to use that to help out but when I put the programme directory (win64) in the Milkyway project directory or copy the files to the project directory the files corrupt.

And I don't understand what you are trying to do. You have to unzip the files in the package to the milkyway project directory.

What I forgot to mention is that the astronomy_0.19_ATI_x64f file always reports that the three AMD files are missing, no matter where I place them or however many times I copy them to the system32 folder.

Where does it report that? Actually you have to copy the three files and rename the copies, so you should have the three amdcal*64.dll as well as three atical*64.dll files in the system32 folder as explained in the readme. If you want to use the 32bit version with your Vista64 than you have to do the copy and rename in the SysWOW64 folder.

By the way, look at this thread!

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Message 29518 - Posted: 20 Aug 2009 | 12:40:35 UTC

This is the error I get . As you can see in the right window I have copied, as well as renamed the files in System32 but the programme still says it can't find the files. After reading your reply I even checked and made sure the three files were in the WoW folder as well but the problem persists.

I just tried the 19e programme and it reports the exact same problem. I will reinstall my drivers just to make sure but I do hope that a new client is made as the 8.12 drivers are eight months old.

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Message 29521 - Posted: 20 Aug 2009 | 15:17:45 UTC - in response to Message 29518.

This is the error I get [..]
As you can see in the right window I have copied, as well as renamed the files in System32 but the programme still says it can't find the files.

I see that you don't have the files with the original names in that directory. Running Cat9.2 and up on a 64bit OS you need the three (copied and renamed) amdcal*64.dll files as well as the three original atical*64.dll files. The ones without 64 in the name are the 32bit versions (in case you have not removed the 64 while renaming them).

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Message 29533 - Posted: 20 Aug 2009 | 22:56:07 UTC - in response to Message 29521.

This is the error I get [..]
As you can see in the right window I have copied, as well as renamed the files in System32 but the programme still says it can't find the files.

I see that you don't have the files with the original names in that directory. Running Cat9.2 and up on a 64bit OS you need the three (copied and renamed) amdcal*64.dll files as well as the three original atical*64.dll files. The ones without 64 in the name are the 32bit versions (in case you have not removed the 64 while renaming them).


The original 64bit files were never named atical*64.dll, I renamed and added those three files to the directory and it still has had no effect. I've reinstalled the 9.7 drivers and it's had no effect.

As I said, I hope the GPU application is updated to include the changes made to the ATI drivers that took place over six months ago. Soon new video cards will be released which will not run on the 8.12 drivers (not without the .ini 'hack').

Until then I will just run MW on my CPU and wait.

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Message 29534 - Posted: 20 Aug 2009 | 23:46:36 UTC - in response to Message 29533.

are you installing the 64bit video drivers? I don't think the 32bit cal files should be there unless the 32bit driver was installed.

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Message 29545 - Posted: 21 Aug 2009 | 11:59:34 UTC

It's impossible to install 32bit drivers in a 64bit OS and visa versa, therefore I have installed 64bit drivers in Vista 64. The lack of the numbers 64 when it comes to the driver is just the way AMD's drivers work.

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Message 29550 - Posted: 21 Aug 2009 | 14:38:51 UTC - in response to Message 29545.

that's what I thought as well, just thinking aloud.

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Message 29560 - Posted: 21 Aug 2009 | 15:51:14 UTC - in response to Message 29533.

As I said, I hope the GPU application is updated to include the changes made to the ATI drivers that took place over six months ago. Soon new video cards will be released which will not run on the 8.12 drivers (not without the .ini 'hack').

But that change would most certainly break the app on all WinXP machines, as ATI obviously introduced a bug with Cat 9.3 they have still not fixed. And to copy and rename three files is normally not that much of an effort. There are a lot of people running new driver versions with Vista and Win7 ;)

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Message 31192 - Posted: 19 Sep 2009 | 15:52:12 UTC - in response to Message 29560.

As I said, I hope the GPU application is updated to include the changes made to the ATI drivers that took place over six months ago. Soon new video cards will be released which will not run on the 8.12 drivers (not without the .ini 'hack').

But that change would most certainly break the app on all WinXP machines, as ATI obviously introduced a bug with Cat 9.3 they have still not fixed. And to copy and rename three files is normally not that much of an effort. There are a lot of people running new driver versions with Vista and Win7 ;)


Renaming the files isn't hard work but it doesn't work and this is after several Windows and driver reinstallations. The application NEEDS updating! I don't care whether they create two different applications, one for XP and one for Vista/Win 7 but with the advent of the 5870 (which I'm going to buy) Milkey Way at home is going to lose out.

I am aware that BOINC are working on ATI recognition and usability through the client application itself but this application by MW is months overdue.

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Message 31206 - Posted: 19 Sep 2009 | 19:09:50 UTC - in response to Message 31192.

As I said, I hope the GPU application is updated to include the changes made to the ATI drivers that took place over six months ago. Soon new video cards will be released which will not run on the 8.12 drivers (not without the .ini 'hack').

But that change would most certainly break the app on all WinXP machines, as ATI obviously introduced a bug with Cat 9.3 they have still not fixed. And to copy and rename three files is normally not that much of an effort. There are a lot of people running new driver versions with Vista and Win7 ;)


Renaming the files isn't hard work but it doesn't work and this is after several Windows and driver reinstallations. The application NEEDS updating! I don't care whether they create two different applications, one for XP and one for Vista/Win 7 but with the advent of the 5870 (which I'm going to buy) Milkey Way at home is going to lose out.

I am aware that BOINC are working on ATI recognition and usability through the client application itself but this application by MW is months overdue.


I'm not sure why you're referring to "them". The ATI app was written by Gipsel and NOT the MW team, so it's up to him to do it or not.

Besides that, if the MW team could ever come up with an ATI app by themselfs, which i highly doubt ( it's a micacle that they got the cuda thing going, after all), it should be easy for the server scheduler to send a matching app for whatever driver version is installed on the requesting host.

The boinc client includes the driver version/CAL version in it's work request ...


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Message 31229 - Posted: 20 Sep 2009 | 5:00:20 UTC - in response to Message 31192.
Last modified: 20 Sep 2009 | 5:05:11 UTC

Renaming the files isn't hard work but it doesn't work and this is after several Windows and driver reinstallations. The application NEEDS updating! I don't care whether they create two different applications, one for XP and one for Vista/Win 7 but with the advent of the 5870 (which I'm going to buy) Milkey Way at home is going to lose out.
I am aware that BOINC are working on ATI recognition and usability through the client application itself but this application by MW is months overdue.



The "they" you speak if of NOT the BOINC staff - if it were left up to DA and the bunch it would still be months if not a year out.

Crunch3r is the one credited for getting this done . I think Gispel had some input to it, forgive me if I am missing someone here that I am not aware of.
But I do know for certain that DA and group had nothing to do with the implementation of ATI/CAL into BOINC core.


And the ATI app was not written by the MW staff. As mentioned by Crunch3r, it was Gispel that did this work.

It took the MW staff MONTHS to even get a working version for CUDA - and I have to wonder how well that code is really doing. Not well from what I have heard and seen.

The MW/CAL app is an optimized app, and in my opinion does not need updating any more than it is. You don't have to run it you know.... There are stock apps that you can crunch with and not have to worry about renaming any files or doing anything special to get them to run.
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Message 31266 - Posted: 21 Sep 2009 | 0:03:13 UTC - in response to Message 31192.
Last modified: 21 Sep 2009 | 0:04:36 UTC

The application NEEDS updating! I don't care whether they create two different applications, one for XP and one for Vista/Win 7 but with the advent of the 5870 (which I'm going to buy) Milkey Way at home is going to lose out.

What do you want to hear? That I don't care about you not beeing able to copy some lousy files?
And I don't NEED to do anything. It was just a voluntary effort from my side, because I got curious how fast it would be. What did I get from that? A load of work and nothing else. I could have spent my time also with something more important. I don't need that some pissed off guy probably just too stupid to follow simple instructions tries to tell me what I have to do.

Your case is very simple. Windows tells you it can't find a file. That means the appropriate file is not in the appropriate location. You have to fix that. Go figure!

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Message 31267 - Posted: 21 Sep 2009 | 0:18:57 UTC

readme file :) its our best friend :)
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Message 31289 - Posted: 21 Sep 2009 | 16:09:11 UTC - in response to Message 31266.

And I don't NEED to do anything. It was just a voluntary effort from my side, because I got curious how fast it would be. What did I get from that? A load of work and nothing else. I could have spent my time also with something more important.

The work put in by Gipsel and others is awesome and quite rightly he didn't NEED to do it or let any of us benefit from it. Cheers Gipsel and testers etc. You're the best!


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Message 31601 - Posted: 27 Sep 2009 | 0:24:00 UTC - in response to Message 31266.

What did I get from that? A load of work and nothing else.

Though it is of little value, you have my thanks and admiration. For what it is worth, I repeat the thanks ...

If for no other reason than it shows that the ATI cards are just as capable and valuable in GPU work as the Nvidia cards.

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Message 32326 - Posted: 12 Oct 2009 | 14:32:23 UTC - in response to Message 31601.

What did I get from that? A load of work and nothing else.

Though it is of little value, you have my thanks and admiration. For what it is worth, I repeat the thanks ...

Dear Gipsel, you have my thanks and admiration too. Your dedication to this project is really fantastic, without even being in the MW team you seem to give the best support.

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Message 32550 - Posted: 19 Oct 2009 | 16:13:11 UTC

I am a complete newb, and this thread is far too long to read through the entire thing.
I have a Q6600 with an HD4850 in it, on Win7x64, sitting idle. I was running SETI on the CPU, but if I can use the ATI card to accomplish something, I want to.
Can someone provide a coles-notes version of this thread maybe?

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Message 32553 - Posted: 19 Oct 2009 | 16:42:53 UTC - in response to Message 32550.

I am a complete newb, and this thread is far too long to read through the entire thing.
I have a Q6600 with an HD4850 in it, on Win7x64, sitting idle. I was running SETI on the CPU, but if I can use the ATI card to accomplish something, I want to.
Can someone provide a coles-notes version of this thread maybe?

Just connect up to Mw like any other project. There are opti apps if you want to use them.
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If it makes sense, DON'T do it.

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Message 32577 - Posted: 20 Oct 2009 | 13:02:51 UTC

Well, I found the app in this thread, put it into the right folder I believe (programdata/boinc/projects/milkyway), and BOINC seems to pick it up now...
But all the results I got ended with computation error, so I've put the whole system on hold and don't know where to go from here :/

System:
Asus P5B Deluxe
Intel Q6600 factory clocks
ATI Radeon HD 4850 factory clocks
single stick of 1 GB DDR2
Windows 7 Enterprise x64
Latest ATI Catalyst drivers for Win7x64

And the system doesn't really do anything except torrents and BOINC, so interface lagging is not an issue for me.

Any ideas how to solve the computation errors?
Is there anything I can submit to help development?

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Message 32578 - Posted: 20 Oct 2009 | 13:44:36 UTC

nvm, I've been given a better link than the one I found here and will try out a different version of the app/instructions when I get home and am not stuck with RDP.
Will report then.

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Message 32579 - Posted: 20 Oct 2009 | 15:51:14 UTC - in response to Message 32578.

nvm, I've been given a better link than the one I found here and will try out a different version of the app/instructions when I get home and am not stuck with RDP.
Will report then.

If you are logged in through RDP the application can't access the graphics card. This is more or less a limitation of Windows (applies to CUDA apps, too) as it uses a virtual graphics card driver for the remote sessions (which doesn't support GPGPU computations of course).

The application has to run in the console session. The latest BOINC release (6.10.15) has some code added to detect a remote desktop connection and pauses the GPU application execution. If you have to run it remote you may try VNC (I use UltraVNC) *without* the mirror driver. The responsiveness will be worse, but it works.

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Message 32587 - Posted: 20 Oct 2009 | 21:21:29 UTC

There are a lot of computation errors going around nowadays, about half of each batch of 48WUs on my 'general use' PC ends up that way. Almost none on my crunchers. Doesn't seem to be hurting the rac though, probably because they fail as soon as they start and don't waste much time crunching before failing.
3 of my 6 4870s I access via TightVNC, without problems.
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Message 32588 - Posted: 20 Oct 2009 | 22:02:32 UTC
Last modified: 20 Oct 2009 | 22:29:15 UTC

Alright, got the ATI app working. Was crunching through WU's in 45-60 seconds apiece... right up until it locked up and reset the card :/
Temperature went from ~40C to ~85C...
Added a second 120mm fan blowing at the card, and it locked up even faster... was only around 65C at the time.

Not sure what's causing the lockups, as I can't see any way to keep this thing cooler other than replacing the whole hs/f with watercooling or something else outrageous...



EDIT: I closed GPUZ and now it's running WU's just fine, almost 1 credit per second based on the numbers I'm seeing...
Fantastic work!

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Message 32701 - Posted: 24 Oct 2009 | 12:25:20 UTC - in response to Message 32587.
Last modified: 24 Oct 2009 | 12:31:10 UTC

duplicate entry

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Message 32703 - Posted: 24 Oct 2009 | 12:29:28 UTC - in response to Message 32587.

There are a lot of computation errors going around nowadays, about half of each batch of 48WUs on my 'general use' PC ends up that way. Almost none on my crunchers. Doesn't seem to be hurting the rac though, probably because they fail as soon as they start and don't waste much time crunching before failing.
3 of my 6 4870s I access via TightVNC, without problems.



I'm seeing several wu's with computation errors too but not in that great number. I noticed some running version .20, and my GPU would lock up every now and then, hd 4850 1g with catalyst 9.9. so I installed version .20b. but now the lock ups are happening more frequently, so I upgraded catalyst to version 9.10 last night. It only ran a few hours and locked up again.

It seems that if they fail right away, then the gpu doesn't lock up. But if they fail after they've been crunching for a few seconds or near the end, it locks up the gpu

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Message 32731 - Posted: 25 Oct 2009 | 14:19:09 UTC - in response to Message 32703.
Last modified: 25 Oct 2009 | 14:21:17 UTC

There are a lot of computation errors going around nowadays, about half of each batch of 48WUs on my 'general use' PC ends up that way. Almost none on my crunchers. Doesn't seem to be hurting the rac though, probably because they fail as soon as they start and don't waste much time crunching before failing.
3 of my 6 4870s I access via TightVNC, without problems.



I'm seeing several wu's with computation errors too but not in that great number. I noticed some running version .20, and my GPU would lock up every now and then, hd 4850 1g with catalyst 9.9. so I installed version .20b. but now the lock ups are happening more frequently, so I upgraded catalyst to version 9.10 last night. It only ran a few hours and locked up again.

It seems that if they fail right away, then the gpu doesn't lock up. But if they fail after they've been crunching for a few seconds or near the end, it locks up the gpu



I figured out my own problem. The issue of MW locking up on the gpu had been going on all along. I had been running multiples, 3 @ the same time. I would notice much later that only 2 or 1 were running, then close Boinc and restart. But I had switched over to running only 1 @ a time, and several weeks later I began having the intermittent problem of MW not processing at all as the 1 unit has locked up and cannot release the next to process.

I finally realized the two issues were the same issue and started running 2 units at the same time again.

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Message 32771 - Posted: 26 Oct 2009 | 14:01:10 UTC

I've got a 512 MB 4850, running 1 unit at a time, catalyst 9.9, Windows 7 x64, app 20b, seems to be running fine, no lockups that I've seen.
Is this card capable of running 2 WU's at a time without incident?

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Message 32777 - Posted: 26 Oct 2009 | 15:53:49 UTC - in response to Message 32771.

I've got a 512 MB 4850, running 1 unit at a time, catalyst 9.9, Windows 7 x64, app 20b, seems to be running fine, no lockups that I've seen.
Is this card capable of running 2 WU's at a time without incident?

Yes, mine do.
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Message 33988 - Posted: 30 Nov 2009 | 10:43:17 UTC
Last modified: 30 Nov 2009 | 10:46:21 UTC

Will there be any improved ATI GPU applications planned for near future? I'd like to contribute by running these, but with most of my computers I can't get the app to run without occasional VPU-Recoveries. As you probably know this causes the ATI App to hang up, using 100% of CPU and the time counter on the task/wu increases but progress is halted -> Total waste of nerves, electricity, time etc.

CP/Gipsel you did the app also for Collatz. With Collatz all my computers run flawlessy (one up over month in a row without a single problem) but MW is very picky on OS/Driver combinations and for some like me it does simply not work reliably for longer periods of time. I HATE to keep watching my computers all the time and restart BOINC Mgr with jammed ATI MW tasks and for this reason I am not crunching MW.

Any change of getting the reliability of the Collatz App over to MW? Any change of improving the code to prevent these driver errors? Any chance of somehow automatically notice jammed tasks and kill these?

PeteS
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Message 33989 - Posted: 30 Nov 2009 | 10:43:36 UTC
Last modified: 30 Nov 2009 | 10:44:27 UTC

-Double-

PeteS
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Message 34212 - Posted: 4 Dec 2009 | 20:30:14 UTC - in response to Message 33989.

Seems like 0.20b is at fault here, been running 0.19f for a while without problems...

Antipunk
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Message 34526 - Posted: 14 Dec 2009 | 14:50:09 UTC - in response to Message 34212.

any chance this is compatible with my 5770?

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Message 34529 - Posted: 14 Dec 2009 | 17:41:49 UTC - in response to Message 34526.

any chance this is compatible with my 5770?


Unfortunately no as the 5700 series does not support double precision.

It looks like you are keeping it warm on Collatz though.
____________

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Message 34530 - Posted: 14 Dec 2009 | 20:48:35 UTC - in response to Message 34529.

that sucks, i was hoping to put my new card to use. yeah collatz seems to be the only project that supports ati at the moment.

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Message 34572 - Posted: 16 Dec 2009 | 1:40:43 UTC

Hi guys,

I'm a newbie to this, so pls be gentle with me.
I need to know if there is any way to get MW workin on an ATI radeon HD 4770?
We tried a few weeks ago and it didn't seem to work so I'd like to know if it's worth tryin again or doesn't MW like the 4770?

TIA
Midders

PS don't tell shaggy, I wanna see if i can overtake him. lol ;o)

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Message 34575 - Posted: 16 Dec 2009 | 2:56:50 UTC

Forget that last msg. I've somehow pulled a rabbit from the hat and it works now, or at least seems to. God knows why it wasn't workin the other week.

Thanks anyway peeps

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