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arcturus

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Message 32008 - Posted: 6 Oct 2009, 3:29:15 UTC

Oh I've got a few higher end ATI cards but prefer sticking with cpu crunching. Guess I'm old skool about it.

Any stats on mortality rates between vid cards and cpu's? Pure speculation here but I would think vid cards would fail more frequently since gpu's run warmer while cpu heatsinks tend to be beefier. Or maybe gpu's are simply designed to run hot for sustained periods without adverse effects?
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Brian Silvers

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Message 32011 - Posted: 6 Oct 2009, 4:56:17 UTC - in response to Message 32008.  

Oh I've got a few higher end ATI cards but prefer sticking with cpu crunching. Guess I'm old skool about it.

Any stats on mortality rates between vid cards and cpu's? Pure speculation here but I would think vid cards would fail more frequently since gpu's run warmer while cpu heatsinks tend to be beefier. Or maybe gpu's are simply designed to run hot for sustained periods without adverse effects?


I recently saw a discussion on this... A link was posted elsewhere on one of the threads...but I'm too lazy at this point to go look for it. The discussion had some good thoughts, but seemed to forget to mention capacitor failure when discussing CPU/GPU "failure". Perhaps it was mentioned elsewhere and I missed it... Not sure...

Anyway, the general idea of the discussion was that while GPUs do run hotter, they are not designed to do so continuously. Thus, ironically, the people wanting to run their systems full tilt 24/7 to get lots of BOINC credits may end up needing to spend more money more frequently... Playing games would normally get the GPU hot, but most people aren't going to tax the GPU at 100% for extended periods (12 hours or more at a time) by playing games... Note I said "most". Some pro-gamers out there might...

Anyway, I have an aging motherboard (K8N Neo2 Platinum - nForce 3-250 Ultra). I originally had an Athlon64 3200+ with 1GB of DDR-400 memory, but replaced it with a Athlon64 3700+ that is overclocked from 2.2GHz nominal to 2.75GHz with voltage around 1.65v and 2GB of DDR-500 memory. Yep, that's a high voltage for a chip that is supposed to be 1.4v. It's been stable for several years. Currently with a MW task processing it is at 50-52C, due to 3 good Panasonic Panaflo high 80mm intake fans and a room temp of 17-18C, with a good HSF (Thermalright SI-120 w/ Panasonic Panaflo 120mm fan) and another Panaflo Ultra 80mm exhaust fan. I need to pop the case open to dust it. May do that in the morning... Times look similar to your overclocked Opteron 165, although you seem to have gotten it just a smidge higher. By the time I had cash to look for an Opteron, they were very hard to find. I would've been aiming for a 175...

As for GPU options, I could get an ATI 3850, or if they make something else in an AGP 4x/8x board, but I don't have the cash. If I did have the same cash as what I had back in 2004, I could buy and build another top-end system like this one was back then, when Athlon64 dominated over Intel...

Anyway, if you have the cards, I'd put them in and let them run, just not all the time if you want longevity...

-Brian
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ProfileArion
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Message 32013 - Posted: 6 Oct 2009, 5:57:35 UTC - in response to Message 32011.  

I have a ATI HD 3870 that hasn't touched any computations. I'm not in this for millions of credits for boasting. I'm pretty lucky to have what equipment I have and its already hard to come up with the extra cash for repairs, much less unnecessary upgrades....


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Thamir Ghaslan

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Message 32014 - Posted: 6 Oct 2009, 5:57:45 UTC - in response to Message 32008.  


Any stats on mortality rates between vid cards and cpu's? Pure speculation here but I would think vid cards would fail more frequently since gpu's run warmer while cpu heatsinks tend to be beefier. Or maybe gpu's are simply designed to run hot for sustained periods without adverse effects?


Don't have exact stats, but from personal experience I've burned a gtx 280 after 5 months of contious use last year. Its been 10 months since I've replaced it with a 4870x2 that has also been running 24x7 without failure.

Not trying to start a fanboy war, and don't consider myself one, but I have yet to come across one ATI owner who burned his card, most of the numerous burns I've seen in other forums are Nvidia related unless some one can correct me.
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ProfilePaul D. Buck

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Message 32015 - Posted: 6 Oct 2009, 6:34:16 UTC

I have had only one card failure so far and that was of a GTX280 card ... though I don't have the time on the ATI cards yet for a decent comparison.

But there is something to that notion that the cards are not, at this point really intended to run 24/7 at full speed. As the returns come in and they have to keep replacing dead cards I am sure that backwards pressure will be applied because of cost issues if nothing else.

For what it is worth the ATI providers don't have lifetime warranties yet so that is another consideration.

On the other hand, those factors aside if you do not try to stay on the upper bleeding edge, if you lose a card well, you replace it with one that is at that level of maybe slightly above the prior card.

I mean with the new 300 series coming out the prices on the 200s should start to fall ...

The discussion was over at GPU Grid and I think it is sticky so should be at the top...
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Message 32016 - Posted: 6 Oct 2009, 7:12:02 UTC

I had a 4870 that ran 24/7 for 30hrs before failing.
Its replacement ran 24/7 for 3hrs before failing.
Its replacement has run 24/7 for a couple of months w/o failing.
Warranties... what are they good for?
Any electronics that lasts the warranty period I consider money well spent.
Cheers,

PeterV

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BarryAZ

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Message 32017 - Posted: 6 Oct 2009, 7:36:19 UTC - in response to Message 32008.  

I run CPU only for MW simply because I have no double precision GPU's to work with. I run Collatz and GPUGrid on the GPU side of things.

I haven't seen problems with either CPU or GPU and BOINC projects generally -- I don't overclock the GPU's I have. On the CPU side of thing, well I do run some AMD CPU's at either higher multipliers or, in the case of a BE550 -- unlocking the two additional cores.

There was a time I noticed heating issues -- primarily with CPU's that ran hot (older Athlon XP's, or older Intel's which did hyperthreading and ran hot anyway).


Oh I've got a few higher end ATI cards but prefer sticking with cpu crunching. Guess I'm old skool about it.

Any stats on mortality rates between vid cards and cpu's? Pure speculation here but I would think vid cards would fail more frequently since gpu's run warmer while cpu heatsinks tend to be beefier. Or maybe gpu's are simply designed to run hot for sustained periods without adverse effects?


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BarryAZ

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Message 32018 - Posted: 6 Oct 2009, 7:42:08 UTC - in response to Message 32011.  

My sense, could be wrong here, is that the higher end video cards (including the 48xx series AMD's and the various GTX nVidia's require more power and that tends to mean more heat -- not only on the GPU side, but in the case as well.

The 'hottest' cards I've run are the 9800GT -- I have one 250GTS -- but it seems to run cooler than the 9800GT's. I do take care with cooling -- I won't use those cards in systems that lack a fan location on the side panel to add to circulation.

With Collatz, it is possible that there might be some heat issues with various NB chips running hot as that's where the GPU is.


I recently saw a discussion on this... A link was posted elsewhere on one of the threads...but I'm too lazy at this point to go look for it. The discussion had some good thoughts, but seemed to forget to mention capacitor failure when discussing CPU/GPU "failure". Perhaps it was mentioned elsewhere and I missed it... Not sure...

Anyway, the general idea of the discussion was that while GPUs do run hotter, they are not designed to do so continuously. Thus, ironically, the people wanting to run their systems full tilt 24/7 to get lots of BOINC credits may end up needing to spend more money more frequently... Playing games would normally get the GPU hot, but most people aren't going to tax the GPU at 100% for extended periods (12 hours or more at a time) by playing games... Note I said "most". Some pro-gamers out there might...

-Brian


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Chris S
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Message 32020 - Posted: 6 Oct 2009, 8:59:14 UTC

I run 2 factory o'clocked 3850's and they are both fine 24/7, amd with OEM 300W/14A PSU's. The stock 4850 I've got had to have an aftermarket cooler fitted to run 24/7 and a third party 550W/21A PSU. The 3850's are AGP therefore run Catalyst 8.12 hotfix, the 4850 is PCIe and also runs Cataylyst 8.12. All three are on Boinc 6.4.7

I simply haven't got the time or inclination to experiment with Cat 9.x and Boinc 6.10.x combinations, what I've got works fine with me. CPU wise I run a couple of Pentium D twin cores and a number of P4's and they are rock solid year in year out. The various Gipsel enhanced apps get the most out of them with standard CPU coolers.


Don't drink water, that's the stuff that rusts pipes
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ProfileGlenn Rogers
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Message 32021 - Posted: 6 Oct 2009, 11:17:49 UTC

I have the 1 laptop with an ati X13** series card which it seems that it can't be used in any of the dual CPU/GPU projects I have tried, If I was able to utilise the GPU on this machine I certainly would.

If you can do both then good more better for the project..
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arcturus

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Message 32032 - Posted: 6 Oct 2009, 15:03:50 UTC

Found the gpugrid thread ... http://www.gpugrid.net/forum_thread.php?id=651

Lots of failed vid cards, few if any cpu's.

What kind of gpu temps are you guys seeing when running milkyway or gpugrid?
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ProfileThe Gas Giant
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Message 32034 - Posted: 6 Oct 2009, 16:32:56 UTC
Last modified: 6 Oct 2009, 16:57:57 UTC

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Profilekashi

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Message 32037 - Posted: 6 Oct 2009, 19:14:16 UTC

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Chris S
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Message 32038 - Posted: 6 Oct 2009, 19:26:40 UTC
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I can recommend the Akasa Vortexx Neo after market cooler for the 4850 card. It works really well and is not expensive. Mine runs at 53C on 100% utilisation down from 90C.
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Message 32039 - Posted: 6 Oct 2009, 19:43:21 UTC - in response to Message 32015.  
Last modified: 6 Oct 2009, 19:47:05 UTC

For what it is worth the ATI providers don't have lifetime warranties yet so that is another consideration.

XFX has a double lifetime warranty on their ATI cards, which means you can sell it to a 2nd person and the warranty transfers (you need to register the card on their website).

As with CPUs it seems to be important to keep the temps down. Overclocking and especially overvolting will most likely shorten GPU life.

What kind of gpu temps are you guys seeing when running milkyway or gpugrid?

Running two HD 4770 cards. Both are at 98% GPU usage. One is at 65C at 39% fan speed. The other is in a very well ventilated case and is at 59C at 32% fan usage. They both process MW WUs in 60 seconds and Collatz in around 720 seconds. Actual increase in power draw (over using the MB IGP for video) is 65-70 watts. I'm using my CPUs at other projects that don't have GPU clients. To me it's about the science and energy usage, doing the most science with the least amount of energy. That's a personal choice though and everyone is entitled to use their machines as they wish.

I do/have run cards also at GPUGRID. Right now they're limited to NVidia and they generally run noticeably hotter, use more energy and require higher fan speeds to keep them cool. My NVidia cards also run a bit cooler at Collatz than at GPUGRID. Right now the NVidia cards are also easier than ATI to set up for many projects.
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Message 32042 - Posted: 6 Oct 2009, 20:06:42 UTC


Scanning for our furry friends since Jan 2002
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Brian Silvers

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Message 32049 - Posted: 6 Oct 2009, 21:12:47 UTC - in response to Message 32039.  

To me it's about the science and energy usage, doing the most science with the least amount of energy. That's a personal choice though and everyone is entitled to use their machines as they wish.


Then in that same line of thinking, this project is the one that I choose that gets the most science done with the least amount of energy consumption of the ones that I am attached to... Cosmology requires more power consumption and they have totally unresponsive admins that appear unable to fix even the simplest of things, thus that project gets only 1 or 2 tasks from me a month...
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Brian Silvers

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Message 32051 - Posted: 6 Oct 2009, 21:15:47 UTC - in response to Message 32042.  
Last modified: 6 Oct 2009, 21:16:12 UTC

doublepost
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Brian Silvers

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Message 32052 - Posted: 6 Oct 2009, 21:15:51 UTC - in response to Message 32042.  

I stopped CPU-MW as soon as I noticed the ATI client back in January. In my point of view running MW on a cpu is just a waste of electricity and this crunching power could better serve other projects. Projects, where the algorithm forbids efficient use of GPUs and where we're not going to get around using CPUs for quite some time to come.


...and if someone does not have a compatible GPU and does not wish to attach to projects other than Astronomy / Physics projects?
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Message 32056 - Posted: 7 Oct 2009, 0:32:41 UTC

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