I do not think repairing the database at 5:30 in the morning makes up for the lack of consideration the admin have given to the contributors to Milkway.

---

I have turned MW off on my GPU computers and will be turning off the CPU ones shortly with the next boinc manager update.

One would think that having constant and continuous problems would lend to those problems being fixed... not ignored.
I was not in this for the credit, I liked the science and it was the first project that I felt like crunching with my ATI's. That is simply no longer the case, the admins feel that they can ignore serious server issues, give us little or no updates on anything...
This is not an admin, or project bashing thing, this is flat out facts that are going on here everyday.

And since I am now being threatened with being banned for saying this common sense conclusion and facts... here's a big whoo hoo *insert descriptive smiley*

Have fun people, this project sure does not have anyone at the helm that knows how to keep a server going properly.

---

My feeling for a while has been that this project will just go off one day. I think that is close to reality now. All of the so-called "donation" money was supposed to do:"The majority of our costs directly support students who maintain the servers, answer your questions in the forum, create new Milky Way models and improve the computing infrastructure, and create knowledge from our activities.".

What of that has happened? none.

I am not going to run any tasks here untill improvements are made. I know my handful of tasks are meaningless, but add all of the work together with others who are quitting and they are huge. When you have multiple top 10 RAC users leaving you have a BIG problem.

---

Doesn't expecting the unexpected make the unexpected the expected?
If it makes sense, DON'T do it.

My feeling for a while has been that this project will just go off one day. I think that is close to reality now. All of the so-called "donation" money was supposed to do:"The majority of our costs directly support students who maintain the servers, answer your questions in the forum, create new Milky Way models and improve the computing infrastructure, and create knowledge from our activities.".

What of that has happened? none.

I am not going to run any tasks here untill improvements are made. I know my handful of tasks are meaningless, but add all of the work together with others who are quitting and they are huge. When you have multiple top 10 RAC users leaving you have a BIG problem.

My 4850's are doing their last 24 right now.
They just happened to be there already when I restarted boinc.
But no new tasks, and here I come collatz.

---

I think you guys are being a bit hyperbolic here.

We're well aware of the server issues and we're doing what we can to address them. We should be putting in an order for some new hardware which should let us get work out faster (and let the webpage load faster as well).

I'm defending my thesis in < 2 weeks so until then I'm pretty busy getting everything prepared for that. After I'm done with my defense I'll have a lot more time to try and get things flowing more smoothly.

---

My feeling for a while has been that this project will just go off one day. I think that is close to reality now. All of the so-called "donation" money was supposed to do:"The majority of our costs directly support students who maintain the servers, answer your questions in the forum, create new Milky Way models and improve the computing infrastructure, and create knowledge from our activities.".

What of that has happened? none.

I think you guys are expecting quite a lot in a very short time. All these things take time. We are doing our work but there aren't very many of us. I'm trying to get Matthew to fill in for me while I finish up my thesis, so try and be nicer to him than you typically are to me :P

---

The thing is this is not an 'all the sudden thing'. This has been going on for months and months.
I do not think we are being anything but pointing out the obvious.
You all acknowledge the issues, yet the issues continue going on.
I know that you all cannot babysit the server 24/7, but the thing is, a properly done server should not need to be babysat at all. If anything, a weekly visit just to check things out in person.

You have several computer savvy people on here. I am one of them. I realize that sometimes there are bugs to be worked out between coding and hardware. But those bugs should never be constant. That is a sign of many things, and none of them good. I think it has just come down that many of us are just tired of the constant errors going on.
My personal last straw was that I went negative entirely yesterday.
I run other projects. Yet somehow I still managed to have your project screw up so badly that it even dragged down the daily credit total that I got from them. That means that your system removed far more credit than it ever should have in just dealing with this project. Your crashes should not effect my total credit that I get combined.
If your system screws up this badly I should have -0- from this project. It should not push my total for the day into the negative.

It is that fact that I think that people are really getting tired of. It does not really matter if you correct the situation, it is the fact that it happens with some regularity around here.

---

I think the last time we had a db crash was a couple months ago?

We're still getting Matthew up to speed in using the server and running searches, so I'm pretty sure we know what caused the last crash and it shouldn't be happening again.

The only other thing we're thinking might have caused the crash is that there has been a lot of construction at RPI, and the vibrations might have caused a hard drive issue which corrupted the database. A bunch of grad student's desktops have suffered a similar fate :( Not too much we can do about that, sadly.

---

My feeling for a while has been that this project will just go off one day. I think that is close to reality now. All of the so-called "donation" money was supposed to do:"The majority of our costs directly support students who maintain the servers, answer your questions in the forum, create new Milky Way models and improve the computing infrastructure, and create knowledge from our activities.".

What of that has happened? none.

I think you guys are expecting quite a lot in a very short time. All these things take time. We are doing our work but there aren't very many of us. I'm trying to get Matthew to fill in for me while I finish up my thesis, so try and be nicer to him than you typically are to me :P

How long will it take then? The server has been unable to handle requests as soon as the first opti app was used. It keeps bogging down since, and only now you say a request for hardware will go in soon. Shouldn't that have happend a while ago? You had offers of hardware and money for a new setup some time ago.

*edit* Basic questions. Is this fine then?

---

Doesn't expecting the unexpected make the unexpected the expected?
If it makes sense, DON'T do it.

I think the last time we had a db crash was a couple months ago?

Things have been slow for months.

We're still getting Matthew up to speed in using the server and running searches, so I'm pretty sure we know what caused the last crash and it shouldn't be happening again.

Didn't you say that all of the other times?

The only other thing we're thinking might have caused the crash is that there has been a lot of construction at RPI, and the vibrations might have caused a hard drive issue which corrupted the database. A bunch of grad student's desktops have suffered a similar fate :( Not too much we can do about that, sadly.

That is baloney. No way would construction cause a hard drive failure unless you put a jack hammer on it. Hard drives would fail every other day everywhere from vibrations if that was the case. My school was always doing things around campus and not ONE failure of anything. Try again.

---

Doesn't expecting the unexpected make the unexpected the expected?
If it makes sense, DON'T do it.

Yes things have been slow for months, and Travis has been working on his degree for months ... there are only so many hours in the day, and, well, first things first ...

His priority is his thesis and degree and so there is where he properly is focusing his time and effort. Work is underway to change the logistics with a new server, the new guy, and getting the degree thingie out of the way ... so ...

Disk drives should not fail from heat either, or dust, or age ... then again ... they do ...

Even RAID arrays fail ... paradoxically adding more disks to an array to make it "safer" actually reduces the MTBF on the array itself ...

Common guys, Travis does not owe us work ... and if it is too frustrating to you then you should goto another project ... my druthers is that I should be doing MW to the exclusion of other projects as hard physics is my primary love ... yet look at my stats and you will see that I spread it around because it is the right thing to do ... especially if the project is overloaded ... so I do MW, Collatz and GPU Grid on my systems because it is the right thing to do ... and I pretty much always have work (though BOINC has gotten real bad about running dry on the GPU side in later versions) ...

Yes things have been slow for months, and Travis has been working on his degree for months ... there are only so many hours in the day, and, well, first things first ...

His priority is his thesis and degree and so there is where he properly is focusing his time and effort. Work is underway to change the logistics with a new server, the new guy, and getting the degree thingie out of the way ... so ...

Disk drives should not fail from heat either, or dust, or age ... then again ... they do ...

Even RAID arrays fail ... paradoxically adding more disks to an array to make it "safer" actually reduces the MTBF on the array itself ...

Common guys, Travis does not owe us work ... and if it is too frustrating to you then you should goto another project ... my druthers is that I should be doing MW to the exclusion of other projects as hard physics is my primary love ... yet look at my stats and you will see that I spread it around because it is the right thing to do ... especially if the project is overloaded ... so I do MW, Collatz and GPU Grid on my systems because it is the right thing to do ... and I pretty much always have work (though BOINC has gotten real bad about running dry on the GPU side in later versions) ...

No one is blaming travis for putting effort to get his degree.
But it seems after every failure, we get pretty much the same excuses.
The computer savvy people here can see through the hardware excuses. Either the server is not up to snuff and they keep saying they will upgrade it (yet never do) or they simply do not know how to properly run the server.

Computer issues happen. We understand that... they however should not happen this frequently is what I am saying. And I do not think that I am alone in this sentiment.

---

I really do believe the tone of the criticism belies how serious the situation really is.

As much as I have been frustrated in seeing either no work available or BOINC in back off...it is obviously being caused by Moore's Law so we need to be philosophical about it all and spread our hardware over a few projects. That is the beauty of BOINC. Now if BOINC would just implement the 'back-up' project scenario and then ensure the back-up project doesn't go down at the same time as the preferred project then everything would be sweet! But alas....

I see Collatz has had as many, if not more issues recently as well.

What the servers (and the people behind the project) need
is to see a more positve attitude from those who hammer
them. ;-)) Call it respect - call it patience -
call it trust. But a positive view Always makes things better -
And if it doesnt actually "fix" the problems here - at least
it will show we are here to Contribute - not to Receive.

When MW works, I`ll crunch with what I have atm -

Good Luck to you Travis! ;-)

---

I think the last time we had a db crash was a couple months ago?

Coincidentally, it was 1 month, almost to the day...

Could you post the specs for the current system you're using for the server? Those of us who actually understand system administration and server specifications may be able to help make suggestions on improvements...

Disk drives should not fail from heat either, or dust, or age ... then again ... they do ...

Even RAID arrays fail ... paradoxically adding more disks to an array to make it "safer" actually reduces the MTBF on the array itself ...

The problem with the "upgrade the server"-only route is that one can only guess at how much of an upgrade is enough. Numerous people here seem to know that this project is available to the entire world, but don't understand the potential impact that has in the number of transactions per second. If only the server is upgraded without an increase in the complexity of the work being sent to us, then the same number of transactions per second will need to be handled. You also then have to take into consideration any influx of new users putting a strain on the system again...

Personally, I'd like to know the specs of the current system, which is what I posted for Travis, but I figure this may get lost in the thread. At that point a budget amount could be stated and people who actually do understand server specifications might be able to offer suggestions.

That said though, I don't think a server upgrade alone will suffice... The GPUs need more complex work so that they are not pounding away all the time...

That said though, I don't think a server upgrade alone will suffice... The GPUs need more complex work so that they are not pounding away all the time...

Collatz just increased the task size by 50% to slow the activity there ... not sure if it is working or not, only time will tell ... and by working I mean reducing the server load ... I now the tasks are taking longer, though on my fastest the time only went from 9-10 minutes a task to ~15-17 minutes per ... still, it is an increase ... which will slow my hit rate ...

That said though, I don't think a server upgrade alone will suffice... The GPUs need more complex work so that they are not pounding away all the time...

Collatz just increased the task size by 50% to slow the activity there ... not sure if it is working or not, only time will tell ... and by working I mean reducing the server load ... I now the tasks are taking longer, though on my fastest the time only went from 9-10 minutes a task to ~15-17 minutes per ... still, it is an increase ... which will slow my hit rate ...

And same was tried here, but with only half mind put into it. Sad, and damn sloppy. But it will help reduce the load on server to almost 0, as there will be a mass exodus from here...

---

That said though, I don't think a server upgrade alone will suffice... The GPUs need more complex work so that they are not pounding away all the time...

Collatz just increased the task size by 50% to slow the activity there ... not sure if it is working or not, only time will tell ... and by working I mean reducing the server load ... I now the tasks are taking longer, though on my fastest the time only went from 9-10 minutes a task to ~15-17 minutes per ... still, it is an increase ... which will slow my hit rate ...

And same was tried here, but with only half mind put into it. Sad, and damn sloppy. But it will help reduce the load on server to almost 0, as there will be a mass exodus from here...

I doubt it ... history says far more people threaten to go away than actually do so ... and in any case I am not leaving ... :)

Though I will admit that I am not a super-user type in that I only have a few GPUs and those I have are not the top of the line even ... still, better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick (or even a dull one...)

I doubt it ... history says far more people threaten to go away than actually do so ... and in any case I am not leaving ... :)

Though I will admit that I am not a super-user type in that I only have a few GPUs and those I have are not the top of the line even ... still, better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick (or even a dull one...)

I can agree with that, as sometimes leaving a project takes some effort too, and fore some that are so fed up, even that effort is too much, especially those who have many computers (some of them scattered around), so it's easier to not do anything.
Also, I must admit, that I have overreacted a bit in my previous posts, as I discovered, that for some unknown reason, my ATIs were running a bit (around 20%) slower from 10am UTC till now (I noticed, that my Collatz tasks took 20% longer to complete). However, considering this the new WUs are still some 1.6 times longer than before, but grant the same credit, which still stinks.

But I fail to understand that eye poking thing you wrote at the end of your post.
BR,

---