so i just installed my new Sapphire HD 5870 2GB video card. i have my MW@H preferences set to only accept work for an ATI GPU (and not for the CPU or an nVidia GPU). and yet i get the following communication from the server:

Message from server: an ATI GPU supporting double precision math is required

what gives? i have a 5870, which most certainly supports double precision calculations. i've seen it mentioned once or twice that perhaps my 5870 needs to be hooked up to a monitor or a dummy plug? but is that really my problem? will that allow BOINC to recognize my GPU? or does my issue stem from a completely different problem?

also, i know that the 5870 is a directX 10 card, but i'm only running directX 9.0c on Windows XP Pro SP3. must i be running directX 10 in windows? or does this have nothing to do with my problem either?

TIA,
Eric

If its not your primary GPU, then you have to connect a monitor or a dummy plug. Your directx is fine, since there's no official Microsoft release of the dx10 for winxp. Headless boxes are fine as long as the gpu is the primary one. If the gpu is the second or third, you will need to attach a monitor or dummy plug.

All my hosts were running xp up until I stopped crunching MW about 2 months ago due to frequent server problems and validation issues (invalid cpu result became valid and the real valid gpu result became invalid). Now that the cpu wus are different than the gpu wus so the problem is gone.

If its not your primary GPU, then you have to connect a monitor or a dummy plug. Your directx is fine, since there's no official Microsoft release of the dx10 for winxp. Headless boxes are fine as long as the gpu is the primary one. If the gpu is the second or third, you will need to attach a monitor or dummy plug.

All my hosts were running xp up until I stopped crunching MW about 2 months ago due to frequent server problems and validation issues (invalid cpu result became valid and the real valid gpu result became invalid). Now that the cpu wus are different than the gpu wus so the problem is gone.

thank you for the quick response...i think you may have solved my problem - my primary GPU is my HD 3300 integrated video, while the 5870 is only intended for use with MW@H and S@H AP (and not as a display).

so here's my next question. my monitor only has 2 inputs, D-sub (VGA) and DVI. its currently utilizing the DVI input from my integrated video. i was hoping to keep it on DVI input, but it wouldn't be the end of the world if i went back to D-sub input. if i did this, then i could connect the 5870 to the DVI input on the monitor (via a mini display port-to-DVI adapter b/c my 5870 has nothing but 6 mini display port outputs on it). would this do the trick? or would the 5870 have to be connected to a different monitor than the one i'm using for the primary GPU?

alternatively, i could use a dummy plug, but i know nothing about them. are they something you can just buy pre-made? or do i have to go to radio shack, find resisters of a specific resistance, and stuff them in the end of a DVI cable (or whatever kind of cable) that is attached to my 5870?

TIA,
Eric

If its not your primary GPU, then you have to connect a monitor or a dummy plug. Your directx is fine, since there's no official Microsoft release of the dx10 for winxp. Headless boxes are fine as long as the gpu is the primary one. If the gpu is the second or third, you will need to attach a monitor or dummy plug.

All my hosts were running xp up until I stopped crunching MW about 2 months ago due to frequent server problems and validation issues (invalid cpu result became valid and the real valid gpu result became invalid). Now that the cpu wus are different than the gpu wus so the problem is gone.

thank you for the quick response...i think you may have solved my problem - my primary GPU is my HD 3300 integrated video, while the 5870 is only intended for use with MW@H and S@H AP (and not as a display).

so here's my next question. my monitor only has 2 inputs, D-sub (VGA) and DVI. its currently utilizing the DVI input from my integrated video. i was hoping to keep it on DVI input, but it wouldn't be the end of the world if i went back to D-sub input. if i did this, then i could connect the 5870 to the DVI input on the monitor (via a mini display port-to-DVI adapter b/c my 5870 has nothing but 6 mini display port outputs on it). would this do the trick? or would the 5870 have to be connected to a different monitor than the one i'm using for the primary GPU?

alternatively, i could use a dummy plug, but i know nothing about them. are they something you can just buy pre-made? or do i have to go to radio shack, find resisters of a specific resistance, and stuff them in the end of a DVI cable (or whatever kind of cable) that is attached to my 5870?

TIA,
Eric

You would be better off buying a mini DisplayPort to DVI converter and then disabling the integrated video. As far as I can recall, CPUs in the Athlon and Phenom all the way to the original Athlon are highly affected by memory throughput, so your system will probably get a good boost by not having to give up memory throughput to the integrated video.

You would be better off buying a mini DisplayPort to DVI converter and then disabling the integrated video. As far as I can recall, CPUs in the Athlon and Phenom all the way to the original Athlon are highly affected by memory throughput, so your system will probably get a good boost by not having to give up memory throughput to the integrated video.

yes, but then i would have to deal with GUI lag b/c the 5870 would be crunching while trying to display windows and everything else at the same time. if i leave the HD 3300 integrated video as the primary GPU, then the 5870 only has to worry about crunching (as opposed to crunching AND running a display), and GUI lag would not be a problem.

when i suggested connecting the 5870 to my display (as an alternative to using a dummy plug), i wasn't actually suggesting running that display with the 5870. my intention would be to run the display with the integrated video via the D-sub (VGA) input, and simply attach the 5870 to the display (but not run the display) via the DVI input.

as far as memory throughput goes, i'm not really sure how much of a crunching performance hit i'm going to take by leaving the integrated video as the primary GPU. i have 4GB (3.25GB recognizable by WinXP) and the 5870 itself has its own 2GB of memory. regardless, even if there was a performance hit, i can't imagine it would be significant, and anyways i think i'd be willing to sacrifice some GPU crunching performance in order to eliminate the possibility of GUI lag altogether.

by the way, i found a DIY dummy plug article at overclock.net:

http://www.overclock.net/folding-home-guides-tutorials/384733-30-second-dummy-plug.html

...so forget my question about where i can buy one of these, b/c even if they make them pre-assembled, i'm sure its cheaper to go to radio shack to just buy the resistors and make one myself...especially considering all the DVI-to-VGA adapters i have laying around.

ok everyone,

i cannot get BOINC to recognize the 5870 unless it is set as the primary GPU. that is to say, my dummy plug attempt was unsuccessful, as was my attempt to have the 5870 connected to the DVI port on the display and the integrated video connected to the VGA port on the display simultaneously (with the integrated video set to be the primary GPU). in either instance, i could not get BIONC to recognize the 5870. i have no idea why the latter didn't work, but i'll go into more detail about why the dummy plug thing didn't work later.

as of now, i have the 5870 set as the primary GPU, and finally BOINC recognizes the 5870. i have since downloaded 20 or so WU's that are "ready to start." so why haven't they started? they're not waiting on my Einstein@Home WU's to finish b/c the MW@H WU's aren't in the CPU que - they're in the GPU que. so right now i have GPU work and my GPU is crunching none of it. what's up with that?

TIA,
Eric

On Mw site check your settings.

My Accout> MW Preferences> Use GPU/ Use CPU

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Doesn't expecting the unexpected make the unexpected the expected?
If it makes sense, DON'T do it.

On Mw site check your settings.

My Accout> MW Preferences> Use GPU/ Use CPU

Use CPU
(enforced by 6.10+ clients) no
Use NVIDIA GPU if present
(enforced by 6.10+ clients) no
Use ATI GPU if present
(enforced by 6.10+ clients) yes

update:

1 of the 30+ MW@H GPU tasks that were downloaded was worked on by my 5870 GPU for ~45-sec and got to 50% complete, then stopped and went back into the "waiting to run" state. an hour or so later (maybe longer), it restarted and finished in another ~45 sec. the giveaway was that my GUI lag increased severely while the GPU was crunching. anyone have any idea why my 5870 GPU is only crunching MW@H tasks once every hour or so for only 45-sec at a time?

After attaching the dummy plug, did you extend your desktop to the 5870? BOINC will not recognize it if you dont extend the desktop.

I've tried this setup before with a 785G and 4850 and it works, you can even OC the card a bit more. My 4850 if used as primary only OC to 650, anything higher will trigger the gpu recovery (momentary black screens and mouse lock-ups). Set as secondary and IGP as primary, it can reach 680 without any problems (any higher will produce invalid wus).

If you're ok with the 5870 as primary, you can use the MW opt app, find "cmdline" in the app_info.xml file and insert "f50 b1" (or "f100 b2", "f50 b3", etc.). Do a trial and error until you find your comfort zone. Of course this will lower the gpu utilization a bit, you can adjust it by adding w (w.80 if the gpu utilization drops 80-95%, this will vary from card to card). Since the admins are planning to do away with the apps made by Gipsel in the near future, I hope they can make the future apps as customizable as his. This also applies to Collatz, Cluster Physik (Gipsel) was also the one responsible for the ati apps there.

update:

1 of the 30+ MW@H GPU tasks that were downloaded was worked on by my 5870 GPU for ~45-sec and got to 50% complete, then stopped and went back into the "waiting to run" state. an hour or so later (maybe longer), it restarted and finished in another ~45 sec. the giveaway was that my GUI lag increased severely while the GPU was crunching. anyone have any idea why my 5870 GPU is only crunching MW@H tasks once every hour or so for only 45-sec at a time?

Check your BOINC Manager preferences, at the processor usage tab, make sure the "Use GPU while computer is in use" box is checked, then put 0 on the "While processor usage is less than __ percent (0 means no restriction).

After attaching the dummy plug, did you extend your desktop to the 5870? BOINC will not recognize it if you dont extend the desktop.

I've tried this setup before with a 785G and 4850 and it works, you can even OC the card a bit more. My 4850 if used as primary only OC to 650, anything higher will trigger the gpu recovery (momentary black screens and mouse lock-ups). Set as secondary and IGP as primary, it can reach 680 without any problems (any higher will produce invalid wus).

If you're ok with the 5870 as primary, you can use the MW opt app, find "cmdline" in the app_info.xml file and insert "f50 b1" (or "f100 b2", "f50 b3", etc.). Do a trial and error until you find your comfort zone. Of course this will lower the gpu utilization a bit, you can adjust it by adding w (w.80 if the gpu utilization drops 80-95%, this will vary from card to card). Since the admins are planning to do away with the apps made by Gipsel in the near future, I hope they can make the future apps as customizable as his. This also applies to Collatz, Cluster Physik (Gipsel) was also the one responsible for the ati apps there.

i forgot tot elaborate on why the dummy plug didn't work. the DVI-to-VGA adapter i was using for the dummy plug had a slightly different pin out than my mini DisplayPort-to-DVI converter. so technically i didn't even get to try the dummy plug trick. i have a mini DisplayPort-to-VGA on order so i can just plug the resistors into the VGA end and the the other directly into the video card...i'll let you know how it works out when the part gets here middle of next week.

Check your BOINC Manager preferences, at the processor usage tab, make sure the "Use GPU while computer is in use" box is checked, then put 0 on the "While processor usage is less than __ percent (0 means no restriction).

i'm such an idiot...i keep forgetting that making changes through my account at the MW@H website doesn't automatically change the settings of the BOINC client itself. well thanks for the suggestion, that did the trick. my 5870 is chugging away at ~90% GPU load now.

i have a mini DisplayPort-to-VGA on order so i can just plug the resistors into the VGA end and the the other directly into the video card...i'll let you know how it works out when the part gets here middle of next week.

so i got my converter and with the help of three 68-ohm resistors from Radio Shack, i made a dummy plug. it works like a charm, and it freed up the DVI port on my monitor. so now i can run the display via DVI instead of the crappy VGA, and the GUI has virtually no lag at all when i crunch both CPU and GPU tasks simultaneously.

that being said, simultaneous CPU and GPU crunching has opened a new can of worms for me. my new big problem concerns the connectivity of my BOINC client. when i crunch with both the CPU and the GPU, my BOINC client will tend to lose its connection with, well, whatever its connected to every 5 minutes or so. you know how the BOINC tray icon has a little red X over it as it loads tasks back into memory upon startup, and the "Communicating with BOINC Client. Please wait..." dialogue box appears until its finally connected? well my BOINC client is doing this every 3-5 minutes when both the CPU and GPU are crunching simultaneously. also, when BOINC "loses its connection," all the tabs go black - that is, if i were to have been looking at my tasks when it happened, the list of tasks would have disappeared and not have come back until BOINC was reconnected. if i were to have been looking at my projects tab when it happened, the same thing would have happened to the projects list. likewise if i were to have been looking at the messages tab, all messages would have disappeared and, upon BOINC reconnecting, start-up dialogue would have appeared in the messages tab as if BOINC had literally been terminated and restarted. i should also note that upon transitioning into this "disconnected" state, BOINC stops all CPU tasks stop completely (as witnessed by the CPU load dropping to 0% or thereabouts), while all GPU activity tends to cease about 30 seconds later.

again, i don't get this problem while i run CPU tasks and not GPU tasks, or vice versa (running GPU tasks and not CPU tasks) - its only when i run CPU & GPU tasks simultaneously. anyone ever experience anything like this before?

The problem you are describing can happen if you have a lot of tasks on your system and you are displaying them all. If this is the case, you can "cure" it by going to the Tasks tab and pressing the "Show active tasks" button. (It will then change to "Show all tasks".)

-Dave

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The problem you are describing can happen if you have a lot of tasks on your system and you are displaying them all. If this is the case, you can "cure" it by going to the Tasks tab and pressing the "Show active tasks" button. (It will then change to "Show all tasks".)

-Dave

hmm...i do usually have a large number of WU's on the task tab, and i usually don't hide the inactive tasks. perhaps i'll give this a try and see if i can crunch CPU and GPU tasks simultaneously without issue. i'll post up later this evening and let you know if that solves the problem.

thanks,
Eric

...........i don't get this problem while i run CPU tasks and not GPU tasks, or vice versa (running GPU tasks and not CPU tasks) - its only when i run CPU & GPU tasks simultaneously. anyone ever experience anything like this before?

One of the Macro issues with BOINC is that its Core code grew up in days of CPU only crunching. Whilst the latter has been surpassed - say - 2/3 years ago with the advent of GPU Crunching, it takes time for the NVIDIA & AMD Compute software to mature to a stage where - really - complex applications can run on the GPU. The latter being the reason many Maths based apps run on BOINC, but true complex scientific model based apps in BOINC are, by comparison, less numerous.

The same goes for BOINC, it takes time to migrate - fully - the code to a GPU environment, at the same time as coping with the exponentional explosion in hardware capabilities. As a generalisation, up to 6.10.58, as far as GPU coding went for BOINC, it was there, but only as a "quick fix" - latter being a somewhat gross simplification, but it gets the general flavour across.

From 6.10.58 up to the current Beta 6.12.18, a lot of effort has gone into coding for GPUs in BOINC. Its possible that the symptoms you have may go away by upgrading to 6.12.16 or 6.12.18. Its far from a guarantee, but much water has gone under the bridge since 6.10.58, and its worth a shot. I'm currently running 6.12.18 and for general unremarkable use its fine so far. Bugs are there always will be with any version, but its good enough to give it a go to see if it cures your problem.

You'll see many differences, message handling, notices, death of First in First Out, etc, so run it for a while on one until you are used to it before wholesale conversion on all your machines, to see if its ok for you.

BOINC Versions Download

It is Beta software, so the usual warning applies, its a development release above 6.10.58, and there are no guarantees, it may turn out to be unstable on your machines - unlikely frankly, but the small chance is there so weigh up the risks for you before installing.

Regards
Zy

well i set BOINC to show only the active tasks in the que (instead of showing the entire que), and at first i thought it had solved the problem b/c BOINC went for ~5 minutes uninterrupted. i decided to let it run while i took a shower, but when i got out and looked at the computer again, i noticed that CPU and GPU usage had dropped to 0% for a minute or so, and that BOINC was displaying start-up dialogue in the messages box (which means BOINC had to have disconnected and reconnected at least once, maybe more, while i was in the shower).

From 6.10.58 up to the current Beta 6.12.18, a lot of effort has gone into coding for GPUs in BOINC. Its possible that the symptoms you have may go away by upgrading to 6.12.16 or 6.12.18. Its far from a guarantee, but much water has gone under the bridge since 6.10.58, and its worth a shot. I'm currently running 6.12.18 and for general unremarkable use its fine so far. Bugs are there always will be with any version, but its good enough to give it a go to see if it cures your problem.

actually i've been planning on updating BOINC to v6.12.18 within the next few days for other reasons, but it looks as though now i have another reason to give it a try. thanks for the suggestion. i'll report back after i update BOINC and let you know if the problem has gone away.

by the way, while we're on the topic, are there any folks out there who are successfully crunching both CPU and GPU tasks simultaneously without experiencing the same incremental suspension of tasks and BOINC connectivity issues that i'm experiencing?

None with me, simultaneous CPU & GPU crunching is fine (have to accept a small loss - say 2/3 % in GPU crunching as there is no free lunch and GPU needs CPU help, so will slow down a little if running CPU apps as well.

...... but dont attribute that successful simultaneous CPU/GPU crunching to the BOINC version, could well be, but that would be speculation only.

Regards
Zy

None with me, simultaneous CPU & GPU crunching is fine (have to accept a small loss - say 2/3 % in GPU crunching as there is no free lunch and GPU needs CPU help, so will slow down a little if running CPU apps as well.

so your GPU only loses ~0.66% of its usage/performance when crunching CPU tasks simultaneously?