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Message 52587 - Posted: 20 Jan 2012, 23:44:44 UTC - in response to Message 52586.  

PS are RC drivers not normal release
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Message 52588 - Posted: 21 Jan 2012, 0:01:20 UTC - in response to Message 52587.  

was only first few that ran fast, sorry :-(
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Message 52589 - Posted: 21 Jan 2012, 0:12:01 UTC

The RC Drivers are ok so far ..... Guru3d has them up at:

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=357549

..... after a false start for a few hours :)

Mostly game improvements as always, but a few that approach BOINCLand ...

- Folding@Home: intermittent stability issues have been resolved for the OpenCL version of Folding@Home

- Improved stability when enabling / disabling CrossFireX™ and installing the AMD graphics driver on AMD CrossfireX™ configurations

- 250% (up to) performance improvement in TessMark (OpenGL) when set to “insane” levels

Its looking like a performance improvement of around 2 secs for me at MW - been running them for about 30 mins, so its still settling, but looks like will end up at just over 42secs, down from 43-44 with the same 1200 GPU clocks.

Download link at bottom of the initial Guru3d post.

Regards
Zy
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Message 52590 - Posted: 21 Jan 2012, 0:36:27 UTC - in response to Message 52588.  

was only first few that ran fast, sorry :-(
Not all the workunits are equal work. Right now there should be a mix of 2 and 3 stream runs. The 2 stream ones finish sooner than the 3.
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Message 52593 - Posted: 21 Jan 2012, 11:38:38 UTC - in response to Message 52590.  

was only first few that ran fast, sorry :-(
Not all the workunits are equal work. Right now there should be a mix of 2 and 3 stream runs. The 2 stream ones finish sooner than the 3.


is there anything simple that you can do on your side to optimize the performance of the opencl app on 7970?
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Message 52594 - Posted: 21 Jan 2012, 11:48:33 UTC - in response to Message 52589.  

- Folding@Home: intermittent stability issues have been resolved for the OpenCL version of Folding@Home


That means Folding runs on GNC now? Anyone got any numbers?

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Message 52599 - Posted: 22 Jan 2012, 9:22:37 UTC - in response to Message 52593.  

Not all the workunits are equal work. Right now there should be a mix of 2 and 3 stream runs. The 2 stream ones finish sooner than the 3.

Ahh - thanks

... so its still settling, but looks like will end up at just over 42secs, down from 43-44 with the same 1200 GPU clocks.

To get 1200 did you alter voltage? I'm running at 85 degrees on autofan, but it can't be too concerned as it's only at 50% fan speed so thinking I'll put trixx on and try for a little more. Memory I couldn't keep from resetting when it was under 1000. GPU at AMD max of 1125 (and +20). Utilisation seems to max at 92% for me.
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Message 52601 - Posted: 22 Jan 2012, 12:19:56 UTC - in response to Message 52599.  
Last modified: 22 Jan 2012, 13:13:07 UTC

....To get 1200 did you alter voltage? I'm running at 85 degrees on autofan, but it can't be too concerned as it's only at 50% fan speed so thinking I'll put trixx on and try for a little more.


85 is top of the range you want to use re fan when on auto, time to focus a little more and use manual fan to get the temp down. 85 was fine, dont worry .... but time to get it down a bit as you are running 7x24. The other factor is the case fans, you are likely on the standard case fans that came with the case. If you are overclocking 7x24 I would strongly advise getting some pressure fans, they are a life saver, and what really case fans should be, but are not as case manufacrurers only size for gaming machines - we are running 7x24, and with high end GPU Cards, good pressure fans are well, well, worth the investment. In Australia you are looking at AUS$25 for a top quality Noctua NF-P12 1300 rpm fan, and real good one around AUS$18-22. As a minimum put one in the Front case fans level with the card(s) and one in top case fans above the CPU. I've replaced all my case fans with pressure fans, never regretted it for one second, best move I ever made. Airflow is the key to cooling, and using case fans if by far better than third party coolers attached to cards - cheaper and effective in keeping other parts of the case cool.

With mine, twin 7970s @1180/1375 in a 1090T @3.6Ghz, voltage at 1.206v the cards run at 70 degrees when the card fans are at 50% - thats inside a Small(ish) Lian-Li Amourlite P50 Case. The air from the top case fans is now lukewarm at worst, sometimes cool. I cant emphasise enough how effective pressure fans are, and select a good one, they are not that noisy, some are actually quiet :) If you want to go furthe down that road of case fans, probably best to start a new thread so we dont block this one. Final word for now ..... dont believe street yacking re noise of pressure fans, its fine if you select wisely. If you want zero noise ... well ... frankly shouldnt be overclocking at all ... real world noise is fine.. effect on bank account from zero melted cards is outstanding :)

Back to present day :) ....

...Memory I couldn't keep from resetting when it was under 1000. GPU at AMD max of 1125 (and +20). Utilisation seems to max at 92% for me.


My settings are : 1180/1375 52rpm card fan on manual, temps are 67 degrees (case has pressure fans).

In the end I left memory at card default 1375, as the voltage regulator for the memory wasnt playing - it will make its own mind up what it needs to keep the card running. You can set a lower speed for sure, and at around 1200 (ish) that speed will show on the screen, however under the hood, the meory voltage regulator ticks over at higher speeds - on screen is known as "Target Speed", under the hood is measured is "real time speed" - they are usually different. The regulator will attempt to reach your target speed when it can, but it will overide it and run higher if it thinks the card needs it. With 4.3Bn transistors on these beasts - it often does need it rofl. Bottom line .... set a speed, but dont be put off if the card basicaly says "sod you" and runs memory at higher clocks. Its a King Cnut job to try to get round it, and dangerous for the card anyway.

The card will go to 1.26Ghz @1.3v, however dont go there ..... its real heavyweight stuff on air, and not running applications. It is however a useful yardstick to measure o/c with the card (goes way higher on LN2 - but those guys as just plain lunatics :) ). I set myself a card voltage maximum of 1.22v based on the feeling I got from the card running, and the maximum it will take (1.3v & 1.26 GPU). I like to be comfortable and at ease with the card going 7x24, speed records are not my thing, it bad for the bank account. I found once I get to 1.22v, the card feels as if its starting to strain/work for its living, so I backed down to 1.212v as a maximum (currently run at 1.206v). With the cooling I have its running fine. I had a driver reset last night @1.193v 1180/1375, which was annoying, but today its purring nicely @1.206v 1180/1375. The two 7970s are running two WUs per card. I still get one errored WU per hour average, which irritates, not worked through that yet.

Mileage on this will vary as there are huge variables in individual setup and what else is running (I have 4 dos boxes on the same machine running Prime Grid PRPNet applications). So step up slowly and carefully if over-volting outside the protection of the driver, I would start at 1150GPU, with the voltage @1.2, then go up in steps of ten on the GPU - pausing each time for 2 hours on the new setting before going up again to check stability. Dont rush it, often issues only surface after a few hours running, and frankly two hours is a little low, better is a complete day, but certainly by the time you get to 1170+ on GPU, give it a complete day's running for stability check after each step change of 10. Dont go over 1.2v - AT ALL - until you are really set and comfortable doing this. Over 1.2v on these cards is a different world where caution and common sense is the watchword, not silly e-peen. Do your Maths on this re PSU, the card will draw around 200w+ when running 1125 7x24 inside the driver, and slider to 20%. Overvolting as well will raise it to 250w, can be 300w if pushing it hard. Crude rule of thumb planning guide is 300w percard, and 200w for everything else. So o/c on single cards - not less than 600w PSU, and for twin 7970s not less than 850w PSU. It will work with smaller PSUs (just) but running a PSU at or near 100% for 7x24 is not a good idea. If the cpu is o/c hard as well, those estimates are likely low - I wouldnt run hard o/c on twin 7970s at the same time as a hard o/c on CPU with less than a 1Kw PSU - you will get wierdness starting as it downvolts, often you can forget its actually the PSU at limits, not the insrtallation in the midst of driver and windows reloads :) PSU needs are too often forgotten, but are the cause of many ills when pushed to the limts.

Whilst doing it watch temperatures like a hawk, obvious I know, but its THE killer, and overkill watching them is better than flippancy and a melted card. Once you get to the stage where you are not feeling comfortable despite card stability, back off on the GPU by ten, and call it a day ...... until the devil in you nudges you for another shot rofl :)

Usual caviat applies - overvolting voids warrenty - do it at your own risks - dont moan at me if you melt a card .... thats your problem :)

Regards
Zy
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Message 52607 - Posted: 22 Jan 2012, 16:29:26 UTC - in response to Message 52593.  

is there anything simple that you can do on your side to optimize the performance of the opencl app on 7970?
Don't know yet.
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Message 52610 - Posted: 22 Jan 2012, 16:40:38 UTC

Interesting tidbit from PrimeGrid, 7970 running there now on a first shot at problem resolution. Not yet cleared by Project Devs. Sesef discovered what was causing 7970s to fail

http://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=3921&nowrap=true#47440

Meanwhile over at DNET ..... even more interesting .... they have 7970 running on a standard CAL App. Some issues still to work through but they have identified them, so its looking good for a CAL app on 7970 at Moo shortly. Need to reign in expectation of course ... it works when it works, not before ... but the Runes are looking good so far at least.

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Zy
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Message 52611 - Posted: 22 Jan 2012, 21:07:20 UTC
Last modified: 22 Jan 2012, 21:33:20 UTC

Decided to let the beast go and see what it could do with the MW OpenCL app. Its astonishing .... The power under the hood is remarkable. I started at 1170 GPU and (frankly) chickened out at 1240 GPU. I've seen reports of the card going to 1260GPU and still carrying out a benchmark session, I believe that now.

Start Point: 1.206V / 1170 GPU / 1375 Memory / 51 card fan

Finished 8 hours later: 1.218v / 1240 GPU / 1375 Memory /55 card fan

I was producing 1-3 invalids per hour at 1170 GPU, and remarkably the same number - 1-3 invalids - when I stopped at 1240 GPU. Deduction has to be that the invalids are not (as such) dependent on GPU speed at this level, maybe its as a result of an AMD card running a NVidia compiled OpenCL app - speculation, I have no idea, but interesting all the same.

The WUs got down to a solid 42 secs, with 41 sec WUs starting to appear, solid results not just a short run to get a result. I ran the card for 30 mins at each level.

I backed off at 1240 GPU, thats way outside my comfort zone, and settled back to 1210 GPU @1.206v as a 7x24. I'm relaxed it will deal with that until doomsday. There is no doubt it will go higher 7x24, I'm just protective of my bank account replacing melted cards, and no doubt some enterprising sole will run it higher than 1240 GPU 24x7, good luck to them ..... :)

The point of it all is to see where we could go with this card with the NVidia OpenCL app, and its 41-42 secs minimum, with still more to come for the brave :)

Bare in mind I have very good case cooling, all pressure fans, so that helped a lot, but none the less, wow .... what a card ... its astonishing. When NVidia bring their's out shortly the GPU world changes, and more. With both the red and green teams at this level of performance .... its going to be incredible.

Regards
Zy
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Message 52612 - Posted: 23 Jan 2012, 0:51:15 UTC - in response to Message 52601.  

Thanks loads for detailed explanation Zy. Tho with case+fans ur preaching to converted (so to speak). The only pc I've bought premade was a pentium-pro donkeys years ago. Have always replaced case fans with Noctua and not had one failure out of many years. Was a d'oh moment month or 2 back cause I have maybe 10 in cupboard and they now have new model with 4pin connector for speed monitoring (fwiw:) Yeh, quiet, efficient and reliable! Case is old antec P180 with 3noctua on front blowing in, exhaust on back reversed to pressurise, and 3x120 radiator cut into top (cooling i7-920@3.8). So GPU has positive pressure of 1x120 helping it. Prob for the pc's is ambient temps can range to 35 and no aircon :-(

OC'ing GPU's I haven't tried because there hasn't seemed the headroom in the past to be worth the risk (I'm nervous enuf with CPU's if I'm not around and there is an extra hot day). But this 28nm chip really is something special and I'd be crazy not to see what I can get. 4.3Bn transistors, makes me grin every time I think about it. Insane. We live in a great era to be watching these evolutions.

85 is top of the range you want to use re fan when on auto, time to focus a little more and use manual fan to get the temp down.

OK I tried that and the noise level increases dramatically straight away.. At 55% it's already loud and only dropped temp to 81. Will have to see what I can get without extra voltage to avoid any extra temp.

In the end I left memory at card default 1375...

Sounds like the simple path as I'm not seeing any temp savings

.... over 1.2v .... silly e-peen....PSU...

Thanks for warnings lol - all good, only interested in stability and maths thru-put. I can't recall the PSU but will be high efficiency + overspec'd on wattage, probably an enermax.

OK have installed Trixx = temps are now about 93 regardless of GPU clock. I disabled the AMD performance stuff, and thought a good first point would be to set the same settings as AMD so upped GPU to 1125 via trixx but fan spun up automatically and temps high, so backed to stock, but temps still high. I didn't touch voltage but as soon as I applied the GPU overclock in trixx it's acting like its running on a higher voltage. Fan speed above 60%+ on auto.

Trixx won't go lower than 1.17V. Is there any chance this card had a lower voltage and when I upped the GPU speed via trixx it's also locked in a higher trixx minimum voltage of 1.17? Happy to start different thread if this is getting too off topic.
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Message 52615 - Posted: 23 Jan 2012, 12:38:39 UTC - in response to Message 52612.  
Last modified: 23 Jan 2012, 12:46:40 UTC

..... exhaust on back reversed to pressurise .....

If you have not done a detailed test with it normal/reversed, try it normal so the back fan is exhaust not intake - it may help if the reversed flow disturbs the case overall airflow from front fans.

...Prob for the pc's is ambient temps can range to 35 and no aircon :-(

Yea .... I'd forgotten you get that problem in Summer over there - thats real hard work in summer .....

Many case manufacturers, the good ones anyway, have recently started to offer left side panels with either a grid fitted hole, or a fan, may help .... the fan size is usually 200mm on case panels, so it will be quiet. Another thought is the recent single radiator water cooling for CPU only. If you dont fancy full water cooling, these are a good alternative. They are real easy to fit, just take off existing CPU fan, put on the usual amount of silver artic, and fit the block on the cpu. It will depend on room for the radiator, which usually replaces the rear exhaust fan. The latter is not as bad as it sounds ... the addition will stop CPU heat exhausting into the case, it gets taken away to the radiator, and blown out the back. Makes a lot of difference, I use one on my 3960X twin 5970 main box. If the case is a full tower, it'll fit (only caviat is be careful about tall bespoke matched memory if you use them, they can stop it being fitted on X79 motherboards, normal height memory is fine), if its mid tower, get the tape measure out. Other than that, its a bit of a no brainer. I fitted the Corsair Hydro 80 - review is at:

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/corsair_hydro_h80/

They do the Hydro 100 which is a larger top case fitted radiator that has better cooling, all depends on case configuratioin and preferance. If you fancy going that route, you would do worse than these Corsair models, very good, had many plaudits thrown at them.

OC'ing GPU's I haven't tried because there hasn't seemed the headroom in the past to be worth the risk (I'm nervous enuf with CPU's if I'm not around and there is an extra hot day).


There is massive headroom. If - genuinely - used to overclocking via voltages you could set the voltage to 1.2v, and GPU to 1140 without giving it a thought, just then step up GPU in steps of 10, until either it gets too hot, or the voltage of 1.2v will not support the GPU level you entered. Above 1.2v is very defenitely possible .... I do it as a routine now, but your on your own there (!), I'm not outlining above 1.2v/1200GPU, have to be real careful above 1.2v when going 7x24, and the decision to go there must be yours not mine. In any event dont go above 1.22v 7x24

I empathise with the ambient heat issue, I am aware of the problems that causes you, and it may negate some things I suggest. In terms of headroom, its massive in the 7970. There is little doubt it was designed at Reference level way underclocked to give headroom for AMD Partners to give added value offerings. eg 925 GPU as a base speed is barking mad, the card easily would take base speed of 1000 GPU, and still drum its fingers on the table waiting for something to happen. It should be automatic for anyone to go straight to the driver, wack it up to 1125, power slider to 20%, then have a think what to do. I'll guarantee thats where Partner cards will come in - 1000 GPU, shouting the increase over 925.



.... tried that and the noise level increases dramatically straight away.. At 55% it's already loud and only dropped temp to 81. Will have to see what I can get without extra voltage to avoid any extra temp

Your ambient temperature raising its head again ...

.... OK have installed Trixx = temps are now about 93 regardless of GPU clock. I disabled the AMD performance stuff, and thought a good first point would be to set the same settings as AMD so upped GPU to 1125 via trixx but fan spun up automatically and temps high, so backed to stock, but temps still high. I didn't touch voltage but as soon as I applied the GPU overclock in trixx it's acting like its running on a higher voltage. Fan speed above 60%+ on auto.


Install MSI Afterburner - its currently on Beta Version 2.2.0 RC11, it gives very good control over the card.

http://downloads.guru3d.com/MSI-Afterburner-2.2.0-Beta-11-download-2842.html

You will have the same memory bandwidth effect, cant avoid that its the desin of the memory voltage regulator. When installed, go to the Afterburner directory inside program files(x86), and look for MSIAfterburner.cfg. Open in Notepad, scroll to the bottom and change "UnofficialOverclockingMode" from zero to one. Save and exit Notepad. Be awre what just happened is enabling a greater flexibility and range of changes you can make. However its your responsibility now, you need to be sure you know what your doing, as the change removed some protections from daft values being inserted. Its fine, dont be put off, just be careful .... (!)

Now open Afterburner - remember its totally open now, unofficial mode - and go to bottom of opening screen and click "settings". On the general page you will see four key options to do with voltage (read the tooltips as you mouse over these four)....

- Tick the box "enable low level hardware ...." and select Kernal mode in drop down box
- Tick unlock voltage control
- Tick unlock voltage monitoring
- Tick force constant voltage
- Select graphics processor type 1175mV

Save by clicking ok. Tooltips will explain what just happened (!)

Go to open screen and set what you want, click apply. When your happy with a set of values click save and select a preset number. When you've selected a voltage to use, and set it, go back to settings general tab, untick two of them, voltage control and voltage monitoring (tooltips will tell you why), then save and back to oipen screen. Your done,monitor what you just set.

Sounds a mouthful rofl, but its not - once done a couple of times, you get it, and its quick. Dont leave voltage unlocked after setting your value, untick the two boxes I showed above.

Anyone reading this who is not familiar and comfortable with voltage changes - do not do this ..... it leaves the tool open and can be dangerous to the card if you are not used to voltage changes ..... you have been warned, this is serious, dont mess around!

You should now be able to do pretty well what you want. There are some heavyweight hardware locks in the card - they were determined to avoid the 5970 o/c heat dramas, however Afterburner unoffical mode will get round many, but not the main ones. You are in unofficial mode, no support given. they will wash their hands of nasty outcomes, burn the card and its your problem. However, if you are used to voltages etc, its definitely the way to go. Just be carefull .......... dont use CCC at all when this is running, nor start up any other tweek utility whilst unofficial mode is running (read the tooltips for the why's and wherefore's)

Usual caviat I'm afraid ..... sorry .... your problem if you melt the card ..... its a safe procedure if you know what your doing, otherwise stay the £$"% out of unofficial mode :)

Regards
Zy
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Message 52623 - Posted: 23 Jan 2012, 21:06:00 UTC

@far: your card is hot and loud already. I would't want to push it any further, even though the chip has reserves. Improved case cooling may help, or maybe replacing the "thermal interface material" on the chip.. although this is somewhat dangerous and is usually only worth it if something's wrong with the factory applied stuff.

I your situation I'd probably give Afterburner a shot and try to lower the GPU voltage. Massive OC headroom means you can also stick to the frequency and lower the voltage a lot -> significantly reduced power consumption and heat generation. You could also go for a soft OC at slightly lower voltage (better performance, same power -> more efficient).

@pressure fans: they're trading maximum air flow for higher static pressure. Fans can only achieve their rated air flow if nothing impedes the flow. Obstackles could be tight CPU cooler fins, dust filters or lot's of cables. In such situations the normal fan might only be able to create 30% of its rated air flow, whereas a pressure fan might be able to realized 50% of its maximum. Whether you want pressure fans as case fans really depends on your case geometry.
BTW: interesting read I had about this yesterday.. never heard of it before! Way better than working on.. other stuff :p

MrS
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Message 52632 - Posted: 25 Jan 2012, 3:29:07 UTC - in response to Message 52623.  

Thanks loads for the help and explanations. Sorry, I've been so busy, but have downloaded afterburner and will check out what it can do as soon as I get a chance. Trixx has definately changed something - 1125/1375 ran at 85degrees and 50% fan using ccc, after trixx at the same 1125/1375 and min volts trixx allowed - nothing but 93-95degrees and 60-70%fan. D'Oh:-) I'll hopefully get a chance to run afterburner in next day. Thanks again, will report back.
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Message 52638 - Posted: 25 Jan 2012, 22:52:29 UTC

I finally picked up several VisionTek HD 7970's, trouble is the Drivers won't install for Windows XP 64-Bit, I tried the 12.1a Drivers for Win XP 64-Bit & Drivers directly from the VisionTek Site for Windows XP 64-Bit.

All that installs is the Install Manager as far as I can tell, looks like the Drivers are there but not in the System where they need to be ... Getting ready to pull the Card out for now ...
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Message 52644 - Posted: 26 Jan 2012, 14:40:15 UTC - in response to Message 52638.  
Last modified: 26 Jan 2012, 14:54:32 UTC

The AMD Release day drivers were for Vista & Windows 7 64 Bit only. The AMD page for those is not accessible at present. They just released 12.1 for all other cards, might be they are on the verge of releasing another for 7XXX - sheer guess.

They released RC11 a week ago, can get it from Guru3d:
HD7970 Driver for Vista & Win764 Bit V8.921.2 RC11 dtd 21 Jan 2012 from Guru3d Downloads

Regards
Zy
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Message 52645 - Posted: 26 Jan 2012, 14:57:31 UTC

The only Drivers I've been able to get to install for Win XP 64 Bit is the ones that came with the CD. But those are worthless really, 600x400 or something like that mode only with no use of the CCC Panel. Trying to resize the Screen with the Display Properties just results in a Blank Screen.

Any other Drivers just give BSOD after 5-10 Min's & takes 10 Min's to boot up into Windows. May have to reluctantly go to Win 7 or just forget about Upgrading to the 7970's ... :/
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Message 52646 - Posted: 26 Jan 2012, 15:13:58 UTC - in response to Message 52645.  

Whether they will release for XP is anybodys guess as XP is no longer formally supported by MS - my gut feeling is they will not release 7970 drivers for XP as XP is not officially MS supported. I'd be surprised if they did frankly.

Legacy cards are another matter of course, but 7XXX .... doubt it ... wait and see I guess, cant be long before a big update comes out with 7950 releasing mid February

Regards
Zy
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Message 52648 - Posted: 26 Jan 2012, 17:50:21 UTC - in response to Message 52646.  

Whether they will release for XP is anybodys guess

I'd guess yes but that's just a guess...
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