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ProfileJack Lightholder

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Message 56341 - Posted: 2 Dec 2012, 2:10:40 UTC

I recently updated my GPU (HD 7950) and have been having great success with it. It has gotten me thinking about my aging CPU infrastructure (1st gen i5) and the most practical upgrade roadmap. I prefer Intel CPU’s so I started analyzing the LGA 1155 & LGA 2011 platforms. I was considering upgrading my CPU/MOBO to an i7 SandyBridge E (LGA 2011) platform now which would then allow me to upgrade again in about a year (or 1.5 years) to i7 IvyBridge E (LGA 2011?) once prices have dropped a bit. Has anyone heard anything, presumably speculatory at this point, about the Intel plan to release IvyBridge E and if it will in fact be LGA 2011? Or could anyone recommend more efficient ways to allocate my financial resources with respect to an upgrade roadmap? Thanks!

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Message 56342 - Posted: 2 Dec 2012, 12:17:05 UTC - in response to Message 56341.  

I recently updated my GPU (HD 7950) and have been having great success with it. It has gotten me thinking about my aging CPU infrastructure (1st gen i5) and the most practical upgrade roadmap. I prefer Intel CPU’s so I started analyzing the LGA 1155 & LGA 2011 platforms. I was considering upgrading my CPU/MOBO to an i7 SandyBridge E (LGA 2011) platform now which would then allow me to upgrade again in about a year (or 1.5 years) to i7 IvyBridge E (LGA 2011?) once prices have dropped a bit. Has anyone heard anything, presumably speculatory at this point, about the Intel plan to release IvyBridge E and if it will in fact be LGA 2011? Or could anyone recommend more efficient ways to allocate my financial resources with respect to an upgrade roadmap? Thanks!


No clue from me but just a thought, RARELY has Intel reused old technology when they didn't have to! Reusing the 2011 boards could be constraining the new cpu's to the old board architecture and that is NOT normally what cpu makers do. My opinion is what it is, just an opinion from a fellow cruncher with a TON of outdated mb's laying around not worth the effort to put them in the trash! My suggestion is to buy what you can afford now and not worry about upgrading the pc later on, just get to crunching with it now. I personally have LOTS of non upgradeable pc's laying around that I had hopes for one day but have long since become outdated! Most of mine are dual cores that I bought with the idea to upgrade to a quad cores, but with most mb's only allowing 4gb of ram max todays stuff will just laugh at that!
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Message 56344 - Posted: 2 Dec 2012, 14:46:03 UTC
Last modified: 2 Dec 2012, 14:51:07 UTC

I agree with mikey. Intel is not known most of the time to be upgradable across a long period of time. They seem to change sockets very often, almost with each "tock" in their architecture. If you want updatability, AMD is better suited to that. In a lot of AM3 MBs, you can easily upgrade to AM3+ CPUs by simply upgrading the BIOS. But, atm, AMD is known to deliver poor performance with their new Bulldozer arch and Intel beats them on all fronts. If Intel followed the road of AMD with sockets, I'll prefer them as well. Sadly that's not the case, atm.
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Message 56345 - Posted: 2 Dec 2012, 17:15:38 UTC - in response to Message 56344.  

If you want updatability, AMD is better suited to that. In a lot of AM3 MBs, you can easily upgrade to AM3+ CPUs by simply upgrading the BIOS.

I use AMD since 2001, each time I wanted a new CPU I still had to buy a new mainboard, even if the socket was the same, because the old mainboard didn't support newer CPUs. I had for example 3 different socket A boards, now I have AM2, if I wanted to upgrade, I need a new board anyway, if the current board died and I wanted simply to replace it and keep the CPU, I'd have to stick to AM2 because AM3 boards usually don't support DDR2 memory.

So from my experience AMD's long term support for the same socket is more of "mechanical" nature. So yes, I agree with mikey too, buy what you need/like/want/can afford now, thinking about upgrading that in feature is waste of time IMHO. I did that before, it actually worked out once, but that was just half year after building the system and I did that, because I couldn't afford the second CPU at the beginning. So I bought more or less the cheapest one I could get just so I have something untill I buy the one I actually liked to have.
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Message 56353 - Posted: 3 Dec 2012, 12:37:05 UTC - in response to Message 56344.  

I agree with mikey. Intel is not known most of the time to be upgradable across a long period of time. They seem to change sockets very often, almost with each "tock" in their architecture. If you want updatability, AMD is better suited to that. In a lot of AM3 MBs, you can easily upgrade to AM3+ CPUs by simply upgrading the BIOS. But, atm, AMD is known to deliver poor performance with their new Bulldozer arch and Intel beats them on all fronts. If Intel followed the road of AMD with sockets, I'll prefer them as well. Sadly that's not the case, atm.


Yeah I have TWO Bulldozer cpu's and they are NOT all that ritzy, glitzy fast! I have an AMD 1090T, which is pre Bulldozer, and an AMD6100 and the 1090T outperforms it handily! I also just got an AMD8120 and although it is an 8 core cpu it too is not burning up the crunching world either! ALL three are 'Boinc only' machines so performance is not limited by other things. ALL three machines have gpu's in them crunching as well which makes them 'worth it' for me. In fact two have dual gpu's in them. Christmas and Birthdays I just ask for cash and buy crunching stuff with it. I also work on friends pc's and they pay me for it, that too goes to new crunching stuff.
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Message 56371 - Posted: 4 Dec 2012, 0:00:57 UTC - in response to Message 56353.  

Have you tried disabling "Cool N Quiet"? That alone kills the FX series performance by about 50%. I just replaced my FX-6100 with an FX-8350 in my MSI 990FXA-GD65 AM3+ m/b. At stock speed of 4.0 GHz the FX-8350 is roughly 12 - 15% faster than the FX-6100 was running overclocked @ 4.1 GHz. Since installing it I've now cranked it up to 4.4 GHz and it is about 25% faster with some things even faster. They run just fine but NOT if "Cool N Quiet" is enabled. I also turn off the Turbo Technology. If it kicks in on an already overclocked chip, the machine will crash. So I'm very happy with my new FX-8350. BTW, the FX-8350 running all 8 cores at 100%, as I'm doing right now on Enigma@Home, runs at the same temp, 125F - 129F as my FX-6100 did running its 6 cores at 100%. Dave
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Message 56373 - Posted: 4 Dec 2012, 2:00:16 UTC - in response to Message 56353.  

I also work on friends pc's and they pay me for it, that too goes to new crunching stuff.

So...you set up Boinc to crunch on their machines but on your account? ;)
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Message 56374 - Posted: 4 Dec 2012, 3:55:50 UTC - in response to Message 56373.  
Last modified: 4 Dec 2012, 3:56:46 UTC

I also work on friends pc's and they pay me for it, that too goes to new crunching stuff.


You do realize, if you are not informing them of this, that is extremely inappropriate to do. If their systems crash due to crunching issues, you would be entirely responsible.

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Message 56375 - Posted: 4 Dec 2012, 5:48:53 UTC - in response to Message 56374.  

I also work on friends pc's and they pay me for it, that too goes to new crunching stuff.


You do realize, if you are not informing them of this, that is extremely inappropriate to do. If their systems crash due to crunching issues, you would be entirely responsible.


I am reading his quote as the money that he makes working on his friends PC's, he uses to buy new parts for his machines.
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Message 56376 - Posted: 4 Dec 2012, 12:13:54 UTC - in response to Message 56375.  

I also work on friends pc's and they pay me for it, that too goes to new crunching stuff.


You do realize, if you are not informing them of this, that is extremely inappropriate to do. If their systems crash due to crunching issues, you would be entirely responsible.


I am reading his quote as the money that he makes working on his friends PC's, he uses to buy new parts for his machines.


EXACTLY!!! I have tried to put Boinc on my friends pc's but they see it as a performance thing, they want the pc to be fast NOW, not in a second or two!!! NOTHING I have said so far has convinced them to even TRY Boinc.

Oh and Blurf I am their IT guy!! So any complaints come back to me anyway, but NO I do NOT put Boinc on any machine that the owner does not know it is there.

Dave I turn off the cool & quiet on every machine and do not overclock. Most of my machines are in my basement and in the summer it reaches the upper 80's F down there, so overclocking would put additional stress on the a/c machines down there and not be helpful. I am also already maxed on my electrical circuit usage...if I plug in even ONE more machine I blow the circuit breaker! The housekeepers have blown the circuit with their vacuum cleaner in the past!! And YES most of the pc's are on their own circuit, which is the one that blows when I have another pc. I actually had to UNPLUG some pc's as the electrical outlet box covers in my bedroom were TOO HOT TO TOUCH! THAT is the circuit the vacuum blew. Homes were just not made for 15 pc's MOST with gpu's crunching away in them!! BUT I didn't get to where I am in the stats by not pushing the envelope either!!
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Message 56381 - Posted: 4 Dec 2012, 18:22:14 UTC - in response to Message 56376.  

Good show mikey. Sounds like you could use a 440V 220A line in your place ;) .
I just cranked my FX-8350 up another notch to 4.5 GHz this morning. 2 degrees increase in temps to 131F but still well w/i reason. Hasn't hiccuped yet in over 4 hours.
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Message 56383 - Posted: 4 Dec 2012, 20:55:46 UTC - in response to Message 56376.  
Last modified: 4 Dec 2012, 20:56:02 UTC

I also work on friends pc's and they pay me for it, that too goes to new crunching stuff.


You do realize, if you are not informing them of this, that is extremely inappropriate to do. If their systems crash due to crunching issues, you would be entirely responsible.


I am reading his quote as the money that he makes working on his friends PC's, he uses to buy new parts for his machines.


EXACTLY!!! I have tried to put Boinc on my friends pc's but they see it as a performance thing, they want the pc to be fast NOW, not in a second or two!!! NOTHING I have said so far has convinced them to even TRY Boinc.

Oh and Blurf I am their IT guy!! So any complaints come back to me anyway, but NO I do NOT put Boinc on any machine that the owner does not know it is there.



Ok thank you for clarifying..just had to be sure

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Message 56384 - Posted: 4 Dec 2012, 22:30:35 UTC

This was from my (sad) attempt at humor, sorry mikey.
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Message 56388 - Posted: 5 Dec 2012, 0:47:13 UTC - in response to Message 56384.  
Last modified: 5 Dec 2012, 0:48:07 UTC

This was from my (sad) attempt at humor, sorry mikey.


Oh no problem, at my old work we teased each other RELENTLESSLY and I have some tough skin!! It was one of the things that made it okay to put our lives on the line everytime we went out, I was firefighter for almost 24 years. I was forced to retire after two foot surgeries, one on each foot.
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Message 56399 - Posted: 6 Dec 2012, 5:12:11 UTC - in response to Message 56342.  

I recently updated my GPU (HD 7950) and have been having great success with it. It has gotten me thinking about my aging CPU infrastructure (1st gen i5) and the most practical upgrade roadmap. I prefer Intel CPU’s so I started analyzing the LGA 1155 & LGA 2011 platforms. I was considering upgrading my CPU/MOBO to an i7 SandyBridge E (LGA 2011) platform now which would then allow me to upgrade again in about a year (or 1.5 years) to i7 IvyBridge E (LGA 2011?) once prices have dropped a bit. Has anyone heard anything, presumably speculatory at this point, about the Intel plan to release IvyBridge E and if it will in fact be LGA 2011? Or could anyone recommend more efficient ways to allocate my financial resources with respect to an upgrade roadmap? Thanks!


No clue from me but just a thought, RARELY has Intel reused old technology when they didn't have to! Reusing the 2011 boards could be constraining the new cpu's to the old board architecture and that is NOT normally what cpu makers do. My opinion is what it is, just an opinion from a fellow cruncher with a TON of outdated mb's laying around not worth the effort to put them in the trash! My suggestion is to buy what you can afford now and not worry about upgrading the pc later on, just get to crunching with it now. I personally have LOTS of non upgradeable pc's laying around that I had hopes for one day but have long since become outdated! Most of mine are dual cores that I bought with the idea to upgrade to a quad cores, but with most mb's only allowing 4gb of ram max todays stuff will just laugh at that!


Thanks for the great points everyone. I was hoping to squeeze two CPU updates out of one MOBO because I knew the suspected release date was close but failed to consider the constraint the old MOBO would put on a new CPU.

I would imagine it has been asked before but how about the difference between a server component architecture and a desktop component architecture? Where does BOINC come down on the pros and cons of each of these systems? I would tend to think server components would be preferable because of their longer high stress life expectancy and increased error checking capabilities. Would these components be better for a BOINC based build? I am looking to build a new system to run a VPN off of with all other power going to BOINC. I am not really familiar with the server side of things though.
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Message 56400 - Posted: 6 Dec 2012, 12:56:57 UTC - in response to Message 56399.  

I would imagine it has been asked before but how about the difference between a server component architecture and a desktop component architecture? Where does BOINC come down on the pros and cons of each of these systems? I would tend to think server components would be preferable because of their longer high stress life expectancy and increased error checking capabilities. Would these components be better for a BOINC based build? I am looking to build a new system to run a VPN off of with all other power going to BOINC. I am not really familiar with the server side of things though.


I run a pc with 64bit Windows Home Server on it and it is PATHETIC as a Boinc cruncher! It is a dual core Intel running at 3.0ghz and struggles with projects that have units that take longer than a few hours. I try to run only projects on it that have units that can finish in a short amount of time. The motherboard does NOT even have a pci-e slot so it is NOT a new pc! BUT at $50.00US it makes sense to run the software, especially when you have a bunch of pc's. I do NOT use it for backups, been there done that and had it fail! I now use a different pc and software for that. The motherboard is NOT a Server MB but the memory is at 3ghz and is not stressed. BUT I think there is ALOT of stuff going on in the background that prohibits the pc from giving enough resources to Boinc to make it comparable to other pc's. So IF you are buying a Server level MB and cpu's and IF you are also going to run Server Software on it, my suggestion is to NOT expect big numbers out of it!

I think the question is what kind of crunching you want to do both now and in the foreseeable future. Right now TigerDirect has some excellent deals on mb, cpu, and memory packages that have dual pci-e X16 slots and the whole package is under $250.00! MOST of those are quad core cpu's not 6 or even 8 core cpu's. Here is just an example: of an AMD setup:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5618895&CatId=7702

While here is an example of an Intel setup:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5552103&CatId=7701
As you can see the Intel is a step up in price!
This WOULD obviously involve reusing things from your current pc, so if this is an issue for you you MUST add in the cost of someone else to do that for you. There is a local mom and pop store by me that will do it for around $50.00. They build it and make it run and I do the rest, I ONLY use them after I have 'issues' such as when the MB requires a bios update to handle the cpu I bought, they have the older ones they can plug in and do the update while I don't. I don't use them often but the owner and I are on a first name basis! Every few months I go in and buy something just to keep them around!!
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Message 56402 - Posted: 6 Dec 2012, 15:06:14 UTC - in response to Message 56399.  

I would tend to think server components would be preferable because of their longer high stress life expectancy and increased error checking capabilities. Would these components be better for a BOINC based build?

I'd say no.

Besides what mikey said: BOINC simply does not need any highly reliable systems (and some servers (specially 1U) are not really build for 100% CPU load 24/7). Also you won't use such system for many years, so you don't need to care much about how long it will last. A server system with many CPUs *might* be "OK" for some CPU-only projects, but here you crunch mostly with GPUs. Also on CPU-only projects it would be a waste of money IMHO, if you buy something cheap and it fails after 2 or 3 years, so what, it was outdated by than anyway.


.
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Message 56528 - Posted: 16 Dec 2012, 4:55:26 UTC

I have an i7-3930K and can pretty easily and safely clock it up to 4.6GHz with 1.35 Vcore using a somewhat large air cooler. I have it running at 4.2GHz now though. 12 threads running 12 tasks and my GPU doing another is nice. I think I can get up to about 67k credit per day with those settings. There might be a way to run more GPU tasks or something, but I haven't messed with that.

I also have 32GB of RAM for a RAM drive and hope to get another 32GB before too long. My P9X79 WS motherboard has 8 slots for up to 64GB. Quad channel RAM is nice too. At 1600MHz I get 37GB/s ("winsat mem" test in the command processor in Windows 7).

If you're looking to do a lot of crunching, I would recommend the i7-3930K as 2011 chips go.

I'm not sure about the upgrade path for the socket, though I have heard it mentioned before. We'll see. But either way, I'm liking the 3930K.
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Message 56530 - Posted: 16 Dec 2012, 12:18:47 UTC - in response to Message 56528.  
Last modified: 16 Dec 2012, 12:20:17 UTC

I have an i7-3930K and can pretty easily and safely clock it up to 4.6GHz with 1.35 Vcore using a somewhat large air cooler. I have it running at 4.2GHz now though. 12 threads running 12 tasks and my GPU doing another is nice. I think I can get up to about 67k credit per day with those settings. There might be a way to run more GPU tasks or something, but I haven't messed with that.

I also have 32GB of RAM for a RAM drive and hope to get another 32GB before too long. My P9X79 WS motherboard has 8 slots for up to 64GB. Quad channel RAM is nice too. At 1600MHz I get 37GB/s ("winsat mem" test in the command processor in Windows 7).

If you're looking to do a lot of crunching, I would recommend the i7-3930K as 2011 chips go.

I'm not sure about the upgrade path for the socket, though I have heard it mentioned before. We'll see. But either way, I'm liking the 3930K.


When doing virtual machines you will not be able to use the cpu in both the real and the virtual at the same time, so I am not sure how this is going to help you unless you are thinking other things. Also virtual gpu's don't work either yet.

Are you talking 67k from the cpu alone or including the gpu? Because if you are including the gpu in those numbers you NEED to find a new project for it!! I have a gpu that is getting almost 300K per day all by itself on a project!! AND there ARE projects where you can get nearly 500K per day from ONE gpu!! And NOT a tippy top top of the line one either.
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Message 56541 - Posted: 17 Dec 2012, 3:42:36 UTC - in response to Message 56530.  

That's including the GPU ([Nvidia] EVGA GeForce GTX 680 FTW+ 4GB) running one task for MilkWay@home at a time as well as the CPU running 12 (one per thread) at a time.
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