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lashrasch

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Message 61115 - Posted: 15 Feb 2014, 13:43:56 UTC
Last modified: 15 Feb 2014, 13:45:01 UTC

I'm seeking help to setup my computer and project preferences to get the most out of my computer when running MW and boinc projects in general.

This is my main computer (laptop): i7 3610QM 2,3GHz (3,3GHz turbo boost, 4 cores - 8 threads), Nvidia GT 650m (2GB, 384 CUDA cores).

tldr at the bottom.

When running PrimeGrid, I have 8 threads running on my CPU and my GPU has a 98% load with 0.0233 CPUs. CPU temp used to go all the way to 102°C and it throttled down from 3,3GHz to 2,8GHz. I changed the thermal paste and I'm now at full CPU speed and 88-94°C. GPU temp usually 80-85.

Running Milkyway
GPU - MW@H v1.02 (using openCL) 0,254 CPUs and 45-55% load on the GPU. Temp is 69°C.
CPU - N-body simulation all cores on one WU. 3,1GHz full load. Temp is 73-76°C

Is there any way to increase the load on my GPU in MW, seeing as the load is a lot lower than when running PG. It dedicates more of my CPU to the GPU WU (apparently 0,245 CPU), but GPU is still only at 45-55% load.

tldr; Running PrimeGrid puts full load on both CPU and GPU and reaches "max" temp, but MW has lower load on GPU, and both CPU and GPU has a significant lower temperature.
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Message 61116 - Posted: 15 Feb 2014, 14:22:35 UTC

OpenCL code (used at MW) is not running well on NVIDIA GPUs. They care only about CUDA.
The temperatures you achieved on PrimeGrid are pretty high (even after repasting). I don't advise to run your notebook at such high temperatures for longer time.
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Message 61118 - Posted: 15 Feb 2014, 14:57:04 UTC - in response to Message 61116.  

OpenCL code (used at MW) is not running well on NVIDIA GPUs. They care only about CUDA.
The temperatures you achieved on PrimeGrid are pretty high (even after repasting). I don't advise to run your notebook at such high temperatures for longer time.


Ok, then I'll use my Nvidia GPU for PrimeGrid only.
Considering the temps, I hear most people saying 70°C and above is not good for the CPU in the long run, however my laptop seems to be coping with the temps fairly well. Don't know what could possibly go wrong.
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Message 61119 - Posted: 15 Feb 2014, 15:47:31 UTC - in response to Message 61118.  

Don't know what could possibly go wrong.

COMPUTER MELTDOWN is what could happen if you let your laptop run at such high temperatures


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Message 61120 - Posted: 15 Feb 2014, 16:17:46 UTC

Lol, that's rather over dramatic & not helpful :P. He won't get that with CPU temps @ ~90C, I'd bet that laptop was running far hotter or it's battery over heated.

lashrasch
What could happen if you run at excessive or near the limit temps is that in the long run you will significantly shorten the life of the CPU.
88-94C is very high & is rather close to its max temp of 105C http://ark.intel.com/products/64899/Intel-Core-i7-3610QM-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_30-GHz

That's the trouble with laptops, their so crammed together they just can't cool themselves properly, so when you run both the GPU & CPU to the max they just barely stay within temp limits. Their crap for running DC :P.
I'd suggest you don't use HT to see if that reduces temps enough, if not you'll need to reduce the number of cores your crunching on, or reduce GPU load to cut temps. Or just run MW to keep your temps down! :)

Btw to get MW to load the GPU properly you'll need to dedicate a CPU core to it, yea I know that sucks ;).
Team AnandTech - SETI@H, DPAD, F@H, MW@H, A@H, LHC, POGS, R@H, Einstein@H, DHEP, WCG

Main rig - Ryzen 5 3600, MSI B450 G.Pro C. AC, RTX 3060Ti 8GB, 32GB DDR4 3200, Win 10 64bit
2nd rig - i7 4930k @4.1 GHz, HD 7870 XT 3GB(DS), 16GB DDR3 1866, Win7
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Message 61121 - Posted: 15 Feb 2014, 16:22:02 UTC - in response to Message 61119.  
Last modified: 15 Feb 2014, 16:34:54 UTC

Don't know what could possibly go wrong.

COMPUTER MELTDOWN is what could happen if you let your laptop run at such high temperatures


Is that even remotely likely, considering that I have good circulation of air around the whole laptop, and the cores being at a steady 85-90°C?
The picture you posted looks more like a computer reaching 150°C across the whole keyboard, while mine is cool even after 6 hours of crunching.
I see it as highly unlikely that my laptop will melt. Is there anything else that could happen to the CPU/motherboard at high temps? Keep in mind that the CPU will throttle down if it ever reaches 102°C, and it will shut down at 105°C.

EDIT: I also ALWAYS remove the battery when I'm using BOINC.
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Message 61123 - Posted: 15 Feb 2014, 16:33:50 UTC - in response to Message 61120.  


...
Or just run MW to keep your temps down! :)

Btw to get MW to load the GPU properly you'll need to dedicate a CPU core to it, yea I know that sucks ;).


Thank you for the constructive reply.

I'm also running an older laptop with only two cores, it used to reach 95-100°C, but after cleaning the fan and reapplying thermal paste, it never goes above 75°C, so that a dramatic decrease in temp.


On my primary laptop, if I change "maximum processor state" to 99% in power plan settings, the CPU will throttle down to 2,3GHz and the temps drop to 70-75°C, so I'll consider temperature a non-issue for me.

What I'm really looking for in this thread is any tips on how to make the crunching as effective as possible on my laptop. And as I said earlier, MW never manages to get my laptop as hot as PrimeGrid. I take that as a clue that MW is not using the full potential of my computer.
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Message 61124 - Posted: 15 Feb 2014, 16:44:26 UTC - in response to Message 61120.  



Btw to get MW to load the GPU properly you'll need to dedicate a CPU core to it, yea I know that sucks ;).


BTW: how do I dedicate a CPU? I tried reducing "use at most x% CPU" to 75%, which would put one CPU idle for any other work. No change in GPU load.
Then I set it to 100% and suspended task so I still had one core free, but the load on my GPU is stuck at only 55% ... ?
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Message 61127 - Posted: 15 Feb 2014, 19:13:51 UTC - in response to Message 61124.  



Btw to get MW to load the GPU properly you'll need to dedicate a CPU core to it, yea I know that sucks ;).


BTW: how do I dedicate a CPU? I tried reducing "use at most x% CPU" to 75%, which would put one CPU idle for any other work. No change in GPU load.

Then I set it to 100% and suspended task so I still had one core free, but the load on my GPU is stuck at only 55% ... ?

Setting to 75% is what I had in mind & that should of worked, I don't understand your 2nd idea, if you suspend all CPU tasks then all cores will be free, if you suspend the GPU tasks then the GPU load would be near 0, lol.

I don't understand why the 75% CPU didn't work though, I'm at a loss, anyone else?
Team AnandTech - SETI@H, DPAD, F@H, MW@H, A@H, LHC, POGS, R@H, Einstein@H, DHEP, WCG

Main rig - Ryzen 5 3600, MSI B450 G.Pro C. AC, RTX 3060Ti 8GB, 32GB DDR4 3200, Win 10 64bit
2nd rig - i7 4930k @4.1 GHz, HD 7870 XT 3GB(DS), 16GB DDR3 1866, Win7
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lashrasch

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Message 61128 - Posted: 15 Feb 2014, 19:36:43 UTC - in response to Message 61127.  


Setting to 75% is what I had in mind & that should of worked, I don't understand your 2nd idea, if you suspend all CPU tasks then all cores will be free, if you suspend the GPU tasks then the GPU load would be near 0, lol.

I don't understand why the 75% CPU didn't work though, I'm at a loss, anyone else?


My understanding is setting CPU usage to 75% in preferences will stop boinc from using more than 75% in total. Which means that if i can have 8 threads, 75% will make boinc only work on 6 threads and some of that 75% on the GPU.

Setting the preferences to 100% CPU usage and suspend tasks so I'm only working on 6 threads will leave 2 threads (1 core) idle for boinc to use on the GPU.

or am I wrong in this assumption?
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Message 61137 - Posted: 16 Feb 2014, 12:16:03 UTC - in response to Message 61118.  

OpenCL code (used at MW) is not running well on NVIDIA GPUs. They care only about CUDA.
The temperatures you achieved on PrimeGrid are pretty high (even after repasting). I don't advise to run your notebook at such high temperatures for longer time.


Ok, then I'll use my Nvidia GPU for PrimeGrid only.
Considering the temps, I hear most people saying 70°C and above is not good for the CPU in the long run, however my laptop seems to be coping with the temps fairly well. Don't know what could possibly go wrong.


Get yourself something like this

to keep your laptop cool. It is powered thru a usb port on the laptop and will both create a space under the laptop for airflow and move that air with the fans.
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Message 61138 - Posted: 16 Feb 2014, 12:32:39 UTC - in response to Message 61137.  



Get yourself something like this

to keep your laptop cool. It is powered thru a usb port on the laptop and will both create a space under the laptop for airflow and move that air with the fans.


I have one of those. The fans are ineffective and don't do anything to lower the CPU temps, but it definitely gives good circulation around the pc.
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Message 61139 - Posted: 16 Feb 2014, 12:33:31 UTC - in response to Message 61115.  

I'm seeking help to setup my computer and project preferences to get the most out of my computer when running MW and boinc projects in general.

This is my main computer (laptop): i7 3610QM 2,3GHz (3,3GHz turbo boost, 4 cores - 8 threads), Nvidia GT 650m (2GB, 384 CUDA cores).

tldr at the bottom.

When running PrimeGrid, I have 8 threads running on my CPU and my GPU has a 98% load with 0.0233 CPUs. CPU temp used to go all the way to 102°C and it throttled down from 3,3GHz to 2,8GHz. I changed the thermal paste and I'm now at full CPU speed and 88-94°C. GPU temp usually 80-85.

Running Milkyway
GPU - MW@H v1.02 (using openCL) 0,254 CPUs and 45-55% load on the GPU. Temp is 69°C.
CPU - N-body simulation all cores on one WU. 3,1GHz full load. Temp is 73-76°C

Is there any way to increase the load on my GPU in MW, seeing as the load is a lot lower than when running PG. It dedicates more of my CPU to the GPU WU (apparently 0,245 CPU), but GPU is still only at 45-55% load.

tldr; Running PrimeGrid puts full load on both CPU and GPU and reaches "max" temp, but MW has lower load on GPU, and both CPU and GPU has a significant lower temperature.


Since you only have 45 to 55 percent load on your gpu you COULD try running more then one unit at once thru a config file. BUT it will also increase the temps and increase the probability of a crash by some percentage.

Do you do periodic backups of your laptop? If not START NOW, Boinc can be hazardous to laptop hard drives, though they are MUCH tougher then they used to be. I have personally had to replace 5 laptop ones since I started in Boinc.

Since you are using Windows the next part is easy, go into the Boinc Manager, which is down by the clock, click the up arrow and the icon with the circle and the X. Do a right click on it and then left click on open Boinc Manager. When it opens you will see some tabs and labels, click on the label that says Tools, then Computing Preferences. Then go to the Disk and memory usage tab and when open look for the line that says "tasks checkpoint to disk at most every [] seconds". The number in there should be 60, change that to 900 so you won't be writing to your hard drive every 60 seconds, but instead only once every 15 minutes. You must click ok to accept the changes, otherwise just close the box or click cancel and nothing will change.

Do NOT make changes that you don't ask or research about first, Boinc is made by a bunch of programmers and what we users think a setting might mean is not always what it really means. The default settings DO work for most people, but for those that want to tweak things a bit it can be done, but it needs to be done carefully or it won't work very well or at all.
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Message 61140 - Posted: 16 Feb 2014, 13:35:12 UTC - in response to Message 61138.  

I have one of those. The fans are ineffective and don't do anything to lower the CPU temps, but it definitely gives good circulation around the pc.

It certainly makes a difference to my laptop - so much so, that when I knocked the USB cable out of place by mistake, the machine first downclocked and then shut down completely.

Get to know your laptop. Find out where the air vents are: which ones blow, and which ones suck. If it's not obvious, hold a sheet of tissue paper nearby and see which way the wind takes it. [hint: there's usually a supply of suitable light-weight paper on a roll in the smallest room in the house]

The stand will only help if the fans are helping the air to move in the right direction. In my case, the stand pushes the air upwards towards the base of the laptop: the laptop itself sucks from underneath and blows hot air out of the side, so all is good. I don't actually see any reduction in temperature, but I can hear that the internal fan is working less hard, so the manufacturer's thermal control software is happy that I'm running within limits. And there's extra headroom available if the ambient temperature increases, or I run an application which places higher stress on the CPU or GPU.
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Message 61142 - Posted: 16 Feb 2014, 14:19:48 UTC - in response to Message 61140.  


It certainly makes a difference to my laptop - so much so, that when I knocked the USB cable out of place by mistake, the machine first downclocked and then shut down completely.

Get to know your laptop. Find out where the air vents are: which ones blow, and which ones suck. If it's not obvious, hold a sheet of tissue paper nearby and see which way the wind takes it. [hint: there's usually a supply of suitable light-weight paper on a roll in the smallest room in the house]

The stand will only help if the fans are helping the air to move in the right direction. In my case, the stand pushes the air upwards towards the base of the laptop: the laptop itself sucks from underneath and blows hot air out of the side, so all is good. I don't actually see any reduction in temperature, but I can hear that the internal fan is working less hard, so the manufacturer's thermal control software is happy that I'm running within limits. And there's extra headroom available if the ambient temperature increases, or I run an application which places higher stress on the CPU or GPU.


I had to buy a relatively cheap one, and even though i get the fan positioned directly underneath the intake, there is 0 reduction in temperature. I run speedfan alongside boinc to always keep an eye on the temps. The only function this stand has, is to keep my vent holes free of obstructions.
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Message 61144 - Posted: 16 Feb 2014, 17:51:12 UTC - in response to Message 61142.  


It certainly makes a difference to my laptop - so much so, that when I knocked the USB cable out of place by mistake, the machine first downclocked and then shut down completely.

Get to know your laptop. Find out where the air vents are: which ones blow, and which ones suck. If it's not obvious, hold a sheet of tissue paper nearby and see which way the wind takes it. [hint: there's usually a supply of suitable light-weight paper on a roll in the smallest room in the house]

The stand will only help if the fans are helping the air to move in the right direction. In my case, the stand pushes the air upwards towards the base of the laptop: the laptop itself sucks from underneath and blows hot air out of the side, so all is good. I don't actually see any reduction in temperature, but I can hear that the internal fan is working less hard, so the manufacturer's thermal control software is happy that I'm running within limits. And there's extra headroom available if the ambient temperature increases, or I run an application which places higher stress on the CPU or GPU.


I had to buy a relatively cheap one, and even though i get the fan positioned directly underneath the intake, there is 0 reduction in temperature. I run speedfan alongside boinc to always keep an eye on the temps. The only function this stand has, is to keep my vent holes free of obstructions.


I too buy the cheap ones, but I buy them 3 at a time and replace them when I notice a rise in temps that blowing out the vents doesn't change. BE CAREFUL to ONLY use a can of compressed air, air compressors can easily blow with too much pressure and actually damage things very easily!
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Message 61146 - Posted: 16 Feb 2014, 18:34:21 UTC - in response to Message 61144.  



I too buy the cheap ones, but I buy them 3 at a time and replace them when I notice a rise in temps that blowing out the vents doesn't change. BE CAREFUL to ONLY use a can of compressed air, air compressors can easily blow with too much pressure and actually damage things very easily!


You buy these stands 3 at a time? Why would the temps start to rise when you've been using them?
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Message 61148 - Posted: 17 Feb 2014, 11:42:39 UTC - in response to Message 61146.  



I too buy the cheap ones, but I buy them 3 at a time and replace them when I notice a rise in temps that blowing out the vents doesn't change. BE CAREFUL to ONLY use a can of compressed air, air compressors can easily blow with too much pressure and actually damage things very easily!


You buy these stands 3 at a time? Why would the temps start to rise when you've been using them?


Yes I buy them on sale and just put two aside until I need them. Temps rise when the fans start to get clogged with dust, dander, etc, etc or they just get old. I can hear them running, of course, and can tell when the temps start to go up meaning the fans aren't doing as good a job as they used to be doing. I have had one under my laptop, both this one and the ones before it, for a long time now.
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Message 61259 - Posted: 28 Feb 2014, 17:47:17 UTC

Laptop temps, are something i know quite good.
All cooling pads are very ineffective if there is no space under and above fans.
This is why i have removed fans (60mm) from cooling pad and put them behind laptop blowing from behind to front. In same time i have rised laptop for 3cm aft and 2 fore. Thanks to that air flow under laptop is really big - cooling my hands as well :)
But more important thing is to keep coolers clean - usually I just blow them with my lungs 2 a month.
Additionally it's not bad idea to remove covers of HDD and CPU-GPU - it will reduce temps as well.
Next thing - reduce voltage. One of my laptop (really old one C2D T5500) i have undevoltaged from 1,2 to 0,95V full stable (under Win XP software Rightmark CPU clock utility - on others systems i have no idea).
BTW You should reduce use at most CPU to 88% this will set one core free.
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Message 61279 - Posted: 1 Mar 2014, 12:30:27 UTC - in response to Message 61259.  

Laptop temps, are something i know quite good.
All cooling pads are very ineffective if there is no space under and above fans.
This is why i have removed fans (60mm) from cooling pad and put them behind laptop blowing from behind to front. In same time i have rised laptop for 3cm aft and 2 fore. Thanks to that air flow under laptop is really big - cooling my hands as well :)
But more important thing is to keep coolers clean - usually I just blow them with my lungs 2 a month.
Additionally it's not bad idea to remove covers of HDD and CPU-GPU - it will reduce temps as well.
Next thing - reduce voltage. One of my laptop (really old one C2D T5500) i have undevoltaged from 1,2 to 0,95V full stable (under Win XP software Rightmark CPU clock utility - on others systems i have no idea).
BTW You should reduce use at most CPU to 88% this will set one core free.


I run Boinc on my laptop at only 50%, so it is only using 4 cores but I do have HT turned on on the pc, so it shows all 8 cores running at about 50% usage most of the time.

I don't over or under clock my stuff but that is an idea, I may try that when my son gives me his old one back.

I bought some CRC or Electronics Cleaner and degrease the fans with that when they start making noise or stop working like they should. I take the current cooler off line and put a second one on then clean up the first one and let it thoroughly dry before trying it again. CRC or Electronics Cleaner is the name on the can and you can spray it on electrical or electronic equipment because after it drys there is no residue left. A treadmill left out in the weather for over two years and was locked up solid, no power, no nothing, was sprayed every day for a week, then left to dry for two days and it started right up and ran like it was brand new when using the stuff. The stuff has some alcohol stuff in it that degreases and cuts thru the gunk and flushes it away leaving nothing behind, unlike alot of other cleaners and degreasers.
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