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ProfileNathan
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Message 4088 - Posted: 14 Jul 2008, 14:17:43 UTC
Last modified: 14 Jul 2008, 14:26:14 UTC

Thanks for all the great feedback guys. Unfortunately, I don't know how to increase deadlines and whatnot, and Travis is at a conference until Tuesday. But we'll get this taken care of then.

So the thoughts are a little split, do you guys like this length of WU or do you want to see the time dropped back a little bit? It seems like it's a really good time on the good machines, but the slower machines seem to be suffering. So my question to you is: if I reduce the time how much do you want it reduced?

Until then, I have created a new search 3730382 with slightly shorter WUs should be a little less than half the time. Let me know if this works out better.
~Nate~
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Message 4091 - Posted: 14 Jul 2008, 14:33:00 UTC - in response to Message 4088.  

So my question to you is: if I reduce the time how much do you want it reduced?

Unfortunately my one isn't finished, at 3 h 46 min now with 45%, I estimate it will be finished with 5 hours.

Until then, I have created a new search 3730382 with slightly shorter WUs should be a little less than half the time. Let me know if this works out better.

Sounds good, but a third of the time would be better in my eyes...
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Message 4092 - Posted: 14 Jul 2008, 14:35:54 UTC - in response to Message 4086.  

Got a bit of a problem that's stumping me. I awoke to find one MW run done at 6 hrs and 33 minutes...(Mac, Core 2 Duo @ 2.2 Ghz) so it updated and reported to server. However there is no record of this in my results or in pending credit. So I'm not sure if it was reported or lost in hyperspace.


WUs get quickly purged from the db, so that's probably why you can't see it any more.


Within 2 minutes of reporting? That's a bit of a quick turn around...


I agree, 2 min's is quite fast to have the Wu's Purged, what if I have a PC thats spitting out bad Wu's & there not being Validated, their gone before I even know it ... 0_0
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ProfileCrunch3r
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Message 4093 - Posted: 14 Jul 2008, 14:39:33 UTC - in response to Message 4092.  


I agree, 2 min's is quite fast to have the Wu's Purged,


the values for the purge are still based on the short wus that's why...


what if I have a PC thats spitting out bad Wu's & there not being Validated, their gone before I even know it ... 0_0


if that happens you'll know cuz your daily quota will decrease pretty fast ;)



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Message 4095 - Posted: 14 Jul 2008, 14:42:48 UTC - in response to Message 4093.  


I agree, 2 min's is quite fast to have the Wu's Purged,


the values for the purge are still based on the short wus that's why...


what if I have a PC thats spitting out bad Wu's & there not being Validated, their gone before I even know it ... 0_0


if that happens you'll know cuz your daily quota will decrease pretty fast ;)



Oh I see, that would make sense then :)

As far as reducing the time, probably 1/3 off would be best, though for the slower machines I'm sure they'll be thinking that 1/2 would be best.

The second two WU's running on my dual core 2.2 mac are taking considerably longer than the first one..looks like 12+ hrs now :/

-Stefan-
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Message 4096 - Posted: 14 Jul 2008, 15:04:30 UTC

???
Top computers - http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/show_host_detail.php?hostid=21774


Sent: 14 Jul 2008 14:35:35 UTC
Time reported: 14 Jul 2008 14:56:34 UTC
CPU time (sec) 431.37 granted credit 260.00

or

Sent: 14 Jul 2008 14:39:57 UTC
Time reported: 14 Jul 2008 14:56:56 UTC
CPU time (sec) 236.17 granted credit 139.29
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Message 4099 - Posted: 14 Jul 2008, 15:18:08 UTC

the time is fine with me. I have run the 20 hour rosetta and some long nanohive units before, so I don't mind. I would go for 10 hours or less.
Doesn't expecting the unexpected make the unexpected the expected?
If it makes sense, DON'T do it.
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Message 4100 - Posted: 14 Jul 2008, 15:21:44 UTC - in response to Message 4093.  


I agree, 2 min's is quite fast to have the Wu's Purged,


the values for the purge are still based on the short wus that's why...


what if I have a PC thats spitting out bad Wu's & there not being Validated, their gone before I even know it ... 0_0


if that happens you'll know cuz your daily quota will decrease pretty fast ;)



With the shorter Wu yes, but with the longer ones it would take some time I would think. That plus the fact I don't really monitor the farm that close, I checked the MilkyWay site when I could and as long as all the Box's had contacted the Server recently I figured every thing was ok.

But with the longer Wu's the Box's wouldn't contact as often as with the shorter ones so I wouldn't know what was going on unless I sat there & took the Time to watch each Box Finish a Wu and the check back at the Site to see if it was ok ... :)
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Message 4102 - Posted: 14 Jul 2008, 18:36:47 UTC
Last modified: 14 Jul 2008, 18:37:15 UTC

It looks to me like the length was almost a "linear" extension. Old ws 3 min 30 seconds and new is 3 hours 30 min ...

I do not mind either way. If I WAS to lean one way or another it would be to longer running tasks, especially if the end result for you is better science. I cannot answer that question ...

On my Pro I should have no trouble finishing the work assigned in that it is on my 8 core machine and I have MW at 100 share meaning it should be running a task at all times if not two.

Oh, I did not yet look, but this should be a news item if it is not already ...
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Message 4103 - Posted: 14 Jul 2008, 18:51:58 UTC

I am happy with the times but I have a fast comp currently No.5
The credit is good . The pressure on the server is reduced everyone gets a steady flow of work. The services that people like to take advantage of like credit reporting can be re-enabled and the purge time can be set at perhaps an hour or two now.. all in all a lot better regime. Please however consider the slower machines I know what that was like and still have a few connected.

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Message 4106 - Posted: 14 Jul 2008, 19:47:01 UTC - in response to Message 4088.  

do you guys like this length of WU or do you want to see the time dropped back a little bit? It seems like it's a really good time on the good machines, but the slower machines seem to be suffering. So my question to you is: if I reduce the time how much do you want it reduced?

Until then, I have created a new search 3730382 with slightly shorter WUs should be a little less than half the time. Let me know if this works out better.


I've not actually finished any of the new WU's yet, but based on the progress on a few machines so far, I'd say the length even on the '372' WU's is just fine. Longer than SETI units, but still shorter than Einstein ones. I'd call that a "Goldilocks Zone" for WU length. :)

Heck, I normally crunch Einstein and Climate Prediction WU's primarily, so MW WU's always seemed ludicrously short to me! ;)

The only real problem is that since there was no increase in the estimated time to completion, I now have several computers with queues so filled that they have little hope of finishing them for weeks, but it's a beta project, so mistakes are going to happen. If you learned a good estimate of how much your increases in precision will equate to increased run-times (and probably credit values as well), then something valuable came out of this.

My only real question is whether the science value of the WU's is going to be maintained if a slower computer that may only have 20% (as an example) to MW takes 2-3 days to return it. Yes? No?

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Message 4107 - Posted: 14 Jul 2008, 21:21:45 UTC - in response to Message 4106.  


The only real problem is that since there was no increase in the estimated time to completion, I now have several computers with queues so filled that they have little hope of finishing them for weeks, but it's a beta project, so mistakes are going to happen.


My fastest host jumped from 6m33s to 6h38m - and it's Duration Correction Factor (DCF) is now around 51.6. So from now on the estimates will be reasonably close, but it would have been nicer if the estimate had been adjusted, rather than allowing the DCF to take care of it. But as quoted above, it's a beta project - I'm not complaining, just offering ideas for the future.

Regards
Rod
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Message 4110 - Posted: 15 Jul 2008, 1:22:13 UTC - in response to Message 4088.  
Last modified: 15 Jul 2008, 1:22:53 UTC

Thanks for all the great feedback guys.

<snip>

Until then, I have created a new search 3730382 with slightly shorter WUs should be a little less than half the time. Let me know if this works out better.


LOL...

Well, I can deal with the runtimes either way (as long as the pay rates stay the same).

My only suggestion would be when you make a change like that, and aren't sure all BOINC oriented run parameters are in the ballpark, would be to not just pull the rabbit out of the hat and drop him in our laps first thing Monday morning. :-D

Perhaps announce it on Monday morning, and then drop the 'bomb' the next day. :-)

I know I may have to punt some of the last batch my slugs DL'ed once I get a feel for what they can handle on the new stuff.

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Message 4112 - Posted: 15 Jul 2008, 1:48:57 UTC - in response to Message 4110.  

My only suggestion would be when you make a change like that, and aren't sure all BOINC oriented run parameters are in the ballpark, would be to not just pull the rabbit out of the hat and drop him in our laps first thing Monday morning. :-D

Perhaps announce it on Monday morning, and then drop the 'bomb' the next day. :-)


Yeah, I'm not positive all of the content of the conversation tomorrow between Nathan and Travis, but I'm reasonably sure at least two elements will be:

Travis: "You did WHAT?!"
Nathan: "They were screaming for new work, so I gave it to 'em"

Due to the law of unintended consequences, you'll quickly learn that in the BOINC world no good deed goes unpunished, Nathan. ;)

All I can say is that it's so nice to have the site responsive and the server not constantly giving timeout errors that I'd forgive just about anything at this point. :D
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Message 4114 - Posted: 15 Jul 2008, 2:23:49 UTC - in response to Message 4112.  
Last modified: 15 Jul 2008, 2:35:35 UTC

My only suggestion would be when you make a change like that, and aren't sure all BOINC oriented run parameters are in the ballpark, would be to not just pull the rabbit out of the hat and drop him in our laps first thing Monday morning. :-D

Perhaps announce it on Monday morning, and then drop the 'bomb' the next day. :-)


Yeah, I'm not positive all of the content of the conversation tomorrow between Nathan and Travis, but I'm reasonably sure at least two elements will be:

Travis: "You did WHAT?!"
Nathan: "They were screaming for new work, so I gave it to 'em"

Due to the law of unintended consequences, you'll quickly learn that in the BOINC world no good deed goes unpunished, Nathan. ;)

All I can say is that it's so nice to have the site responsive and the server not constantly giving timeout errors that I'd forgive just about anything at this point. :D


LOL...

Yep, If I had advanced warning, I would have rolled the cache setting way back.

I wasn't having any trouble getting stuff pushed through any of my hosts at 1.25 days before the new stuff came out.

But I've just finished running some numbers by hand with the new mix, and picture is somewhat grim for a couple of them. :-)

I've pretty much decided I would run out the original run length stuff first, then start plowing away at as much of the new stuff I can get done before deadline, and start dumping some of the excess new stuff once I have feel for them.

OTOH, I really don't mind. This is the first time in a long time I really had to take matters into hand manually! Like maybe since the really early days of SAH on BOINC! :-D

Alinator
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Message 4119 - Posted: 15 Jul 2008, 2:49:34 UTC
Last modified: 15 Jul 2008, 2:53:36 UTC

I am at least very happy my hosts are no longer jammed by MW and the length makes no difference to me as long as the pay rate is the same as someone else said.....

Now to the immediate problem of short deadlines and d/l too much work....remember everyone when you think of dumping some....they have to be resent by the server ....then crunched......which gives you even more time to report before your resend does .....and yours gets credit if reported 1st.......so those teetering on the edge of deadlines should get you credit anyways :) Don't be too quick to abort!
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Message 4121 - Posted: 15 Jul 2008, 2:49:50 UTC
Last modified: 15 Jul 2008, 2:51:20 UTC

Double Post
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Message 4123 - Posted: 15 Jul 2008, 2:58:09 UTC - in response to Message 4119.  

I am at least very happy my hosts are no longer jammed by MW and the length makes no difference to me as long as the pay rate is the same as someone else said.....

Now to the immediate problem of short deadlines and d/l too much work....remember everyone when you think of dumping some....they have to be resent by the server ....then crunched......which gives you even more time to report before your resend does .....and yours gets credit if reported 1st.......so those teetering on the edge of deadlines should get you credit anyways :) Don't be too quick to abort!


LOL...

Agreed, that's why I'm waiting to get a feel for the new runtimes before I start thinking about 'punching out'! :-)

I've played this game before, and I really hate wasting my hosts time, but don't like not running the work I was assigned either unless there isn't any other choice. ;-)

Alinator
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Message 4125 - Posted: 15 Jul 2008, 3:06:19 UTC - in response to Message 4123.  

Well with cosmology still down I've had no choice but to run Milkyway constantly on my one machine so all's good ;)

And for a beta project you've got to give these guys a hand...

Just keep in mind a little forewarning beforehand would be nice...I imagine quite a few people are perplexed at the suddenly exponentially longer WU's

-Stefan-
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Message 4127 - Posted: 15 Jul 2008, 4:09:40 UTC - in response to Message 4125.  
Last modified: 15 Jul 2008, 4:11:01 UTC

Well with cosmology still down I've had no choice but to run Milkyway constantly on my one machine so all's good ;)

And for a beta project you've got to give these guys a hand...

Just keep in mind a little forewarning beforehand would be nice...I imagine quite a few people are perplexed at the suddenly exponentially longer WU's


LOL...

Yep, I had almost forgotten about the 'thrill of the hunt' on Beta projects.

Guess I had gotten too complacent crunching away on the production ones.

You know how it goes...

Download a bunch of new work, then turn around and complain about falling RAC. Next, reply to some other comment and get banned! :-D

Personally, I prefer this kind of 'sport'. ;-)

Alinator
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