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ProfileNathan
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Message 4145 - Posted: 15 Jul 2008, 16:57:24 UTC

Sorry for all the confusion, I did make a post about the increased time for WUs when I did it, but I realize that "at the same time" wasn't enough time for some of you guys to realize what was going on. Thanks to those that pointed the others in the right direction.

The answer to the big question is YES, the deadlines will be changed. The only reason it hasn't been done yet is that I do not know how, and Travis is out of town until today or tomorrow. However, it will be fixed ASAP.

As for all the credit issues, my personal belief is that there should be a standard BOINC implementation that gives 1 credit per minute crunched. Simple sweet and no worrying by the project admins if there is too much or too little. But, that's just my opinion. However, I do understand why it's not universal and, so we deal with it.
~Nate~
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Message 4146 - Posted: 15 Jul 2008, 17:06:41 UTC - in response to Message 4145.  

As for all the credit issues, my personal belief is that there should be a standard BOINC implementation that gives 1 credit per minute crunched. Simple sweet and no worrying by the project admins if there is too much or too little. But, that's just my opinion. However, I do understand why it's not universal and, so we deal with it.

So if I crunched on an old P3 for one minute I should get the same as for 1 minute C2Q? I don't think that's even remotely fair.

Best would be what you just do now, give the same amount for the same WU, as they all run the same time on the same machine. You just have to get the amount to the right value, that's something about the average over whole BOINC, quite near to the non-"optimised" benchmarks. For the 2:30min WUs it should be something about 1.2, for the one 2:30h about 70.
Grüße vom Sänger
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Message 4147 - Posted: 15 Jul 2008, 17:14:49 UTC - in response to Message 4145.  

Sorry for all the confusion, I did make a post about the increased time for WUs when I did it, but I realize that "at the same time" wasn't enough time for some of you guys to realize what was going on. Thanks to those that pointed the others in the right direction.



Hm. I had expected to find information of that importance on the main page in the "News" section. Isn't that what it is for?

And, as already mentioned here, a few days in advance.

Greetings, Groundhog
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Message 4153 - Posted: 15 Jul 2008, 22:58:38 UTC - in response to Message 4129.  

Old ones were 2:30, new ones are as well 2:30. Only the for the old ones it was minutes, for the new ones it's hours. So the same her as with niterobin.

What's the nearly same as well is the ridiculous amount of credits that gets tossed after completed ones, on the first one here even 10% more. One third to one quarter should be enough.



Saenger ....Are you the credit Police? What is your problem dude...1st Cosmo now here! Credits here were voted on...every vote counted to the credit we receive(including yours)....I thought credit discussion was done here....always at least one guy that likes to stir it up.Are you employed by DA?Apparently you perfer gestapoism to democracy...Please just go crunch projects with no credit and leave the rest of us in peace.....Grrrrrrrr


You beat me too it, we ran him off at Cosmo so he's here now, lol. Glad he's on SETI.GERMANY and not our team SETI.USA.
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Message 4154 - Posted: 15 Jul 2008, 23:02:24 UTC - in response to Message 4153.  



You beat me too it, we ran him off at Cosmo so he's here now, lol. Glad he's on SETI.GERMANY and not our team SETI.USA.


LOL...

Agreed, but it's not so much what he's saying is offbase, but eventually you get to the point where you say, "Yes I know, I've heard it before..."! ;-)

Alinator
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Message 4156 - Posted: 15 Jul 2008, 23:11:32 UTC - in response to Message 4140.  


I'd like cross-project fairness be implemented. For now the range of credits per work done differs on most projects, although most of the projects run more or less smack in the middle. There are just some that seem to worth themselves so scientific unattractive that they give credits beyond reason (That's at least Cosmo and Milkyway, perhaps some of the more obscure as well), others that have such a great confidence in their worthiness that they give sub-standard credits (like WCG and LHC on my puter).

The range of credits per hour and core on my puter is from 10 to 110, my (cheatfree) bench value would be 25, I get about 30 on average from most of the projects. The real low end are some alpha projects, where such stuff is supposed to happen. That's the fun of being ATA ;)


And regarding the own, traditional, points system at WCG: That's a fine example how much they like cross project fairness. They had this old points system implemented long before BOINC started for their own UD cient. Once they joined BOINC they started the alternative Credit system to stay on level with BOINC and not to grant their 7-times too high own points as credits.


I see you're pretty good with cut and paste, I thought some of that sounded familiar so I went back to cosmo and yes, word for word (words I put in bold), lol.

And please don't hijack this persons thread, start up another one regarding credits if you're so inclined.

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Message 4157 - Posted: 15 Jul 2008, 23:18:31 UTC - in response to Message 4154.  



You beat me too it, we ran him off at Cosmo so he's here now, lol. Glad he's on SETI.GERMANY and not our team SETI.USA.


LOL...

Agreed, but it's not so much what he's saying is offbase, but eventually you get to the point where you say, "Yes I know, I've heard it before..."! ;-)

Alinator


yea... like an old broken record... repeating it over and over again just to the annoy people on every board ...




Join Support science! Joinc Team BOINC United now!
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Message 4158 - Posted: 15 Jul 2008, 23:45:48 UTC - in response to Message 4157.  



yea... like an old broken record... repeating it over and over again just to the annoy people on every board ...




LOL...

Yep. However, don't forget there's another pet-peeve topic which exists as well. Given a choice, I'd rather deal with this one! ;-)

Alinator
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Message 4159 - Posted: 16 Jul 2008, 0:17:58 UTC - in response to Message 4145.  
Last modified: 16 Jul 2008, 0:19:54 UTC

Sorry for all the confusion, I did make a post about the increased time for WUs when I did it, but I realize that "at the same time" wasn't enough time for some of you guys to realize what was going on. Thanks to those that pointed the others in the right direction.

The answer to the big question is YES, the deadlines will be changed. The only reason it hasn't been done yet is that I do not know how, and Travis is out of town until today or tomorrow. However, it will be fixed ASAP.

As for all the credit issues, my personal belief is that there should be a standard BOINC implementation that gives 1 credit per minute crunched. Simple sweet and no worrying by the project admins if there is too much or too little. But, that's just my opinion. However, I do understand why it's not universal and, so we deal with it.


I'm a little confused here. BOINCManager handles how many work units we get. if we don't need any work we don't get it. Even if the 20 WUs Limit is not reached. Also, the project seem to handle it too. For example:

7/15/2008 15:28:21|Enigma@Home|Message from server: No work sent
7/15/2008 15:28:21|Enigma@Home|Message from server: (won't finish in time) BOINC runs 98.9% of time, computation enabled 99.7% of that


The new crunch time for the WUs are around 7 hours give or take a few. If the deadline is increased, won't they just sit around longer before starting. I have WUs with 30 days deadline and they sit around for 28 days or so. Which also happens to the the MW 7 minute ones. They sit around until the last day of the deadline.

Now of course, I'm one that is attached to 70+ Projects. I don't have enough boxes to run 1 per project, but I'm working on it. I'm crunching with Quads, Dual-Cores and down to PII 266s so I can check how long the new WUs take to finish on the slow boxes. Hehe, I even have a Cyrus 100 And an AMD 100 that I can put Online. Too long of a deadline seems to defeat the turnaround time needed for fresh data.
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Message 4163 - Posted: 16 Jul 2008, 1:36:17 UTC
Last modified: 16 Jul 2008, 1:38:37 UTC

Well, it's not quite as simple as it may first seem.

It all starts with the project needing to make estimates of how much 'effort' the tasks require which are at least in touch with reality with what they actually will take. This is where setting good FPOP estimates comes in.

Next, the Core Client has to run benchmarks at least consistently. Accurate and consistent would be best, but consistent will do. This is where TDCF helps out, but that function is pretty heavily damped and kind of slow to respond.

Then you have to consider how tight to make the deadlines in relation to your host population's capabilities.

Finally, when the need arises to make changes, they should be phased in such that feedback mechanisms in BOINC will function as intended.

Get it right, and almost no one notices anything changed. Get anyone one of them wrong, and the <communication garbled> can hit the fan. ;-)

Alinator
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Message 4165 - Posted: 16 Jul 2008, 1:48:33 UTC

Vote with your feet. This topic is reserved for lawyers, bean counters and men of faith which must know the exact number of angels on the head of a pin.

Son, Vcore is your salvation. A good mobo and bios will deliver you the credits you desire.

Voltron

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Message 4171 - Posted: 16 Jul 2008, 3:51:20 UTC

Hello everyone!!

I would like first say sorry about getting on the topic of credit granted for WUs done. That was not my intentions with this thread. I was just curious if the WU length had been increased since it was taking my computer an extra time to complete a WU.

The question was answered for me and I thank those that gave me the information that I needed and let me know I didn't have to worry about resetting my BOINC manager as it would update properly.

To update you on the length of time to complete a WU on my computer. It turned out to be 3.5 hours, not too bad considering I have a project that runs into the 1000s of hours to complete and I'm sure the BOINC Manager will download accordingly. And it will be great when the deadline is increased too.

Thank you all for the information,

Warren
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Message 4176 - Posted: 16 Jul 2008, 5:10:10 UTC - in response to Message 4157.  

You beat me too it, we ran him off at Cosmo so he's here now, lol. Glad he's on SETI.GERMANY and not our team SETI.USA.

LOL...

Agreed, but it's not so much what he's saying is offbase, but eventually you get to the point where you say, "Yes I know, I've heard it before..."! ;-)

Alinator

yea... like an old broken record... repeating it over and over again just to the annoy people on every board ...

um first... waaah.

Second, 8 hours down, 10 hours to go. :/

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Message 4177 - Posted: 16 Jul 2008, 5:11:40 UTC - in response to Message 4158.  

yea... like an old broken record... repeating it over and over again just to the annoy people on every board ...

LOL...

Yep. However, don't forget there's another pet-peeve topic which exists as well. Given a choice, I'd rather deal with this one! ;-)

Alinator

oooh oooh I know! I'll PM him just to confirm and make sure.
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Message 4179 - Posted: 16 Jul 2008, 7:55:06 UTC

Sometimes I get so tiiiiired of reading these boinc message boards :(
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Message 4180 - Posted: 16 Jul 2008, 9:59:12 UTC - in response to Message 4157.  
Last modified: 16 Jul 2008, 10:09:15 UTC



You beat me too it, we ran him off at Cosmo so he's here now, lol. Glad he's on SETI.GERMANY and not our team SETI.USA.


LOL...

Agreed, but it's not so much what he's saying is offbase, but eventually you get to the point where you say, "Yes I know, I've heard it before..."! ;-)

Alinator


yea... like an old broken record... repeating it over and over again just to the annoy people on every board ...




I like to think of Saenger as Chicken Little, only he runs around the BOINC Projects Screaming Your Credits are to High Your Credits are to High, Oh My God Your Credits are to High ... hehe ... Luckily like Chicken Little nobody really Pays to much attention to him ... :)
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Message 4181 - Posted: 16 Jul 2008, 10:00:06 UTC - in response to Message 4179.  

Sometimes I get so tiiiiired of reading these boinc message boards :(


Then quit reading them and go to Bed ... hahaha ... ;)
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Message 4186 - Posted: 16 Jul 2008, 13:23:07 UTC - in response to Message 4129.  

Hi,
Apparently you perfer gestapoism to democracy...

The golden Godwin of the day goes to JRenkar ...

Regards,
Carsten

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Message 4187 - Posted: 16 Jul 2008, 17:01:35 UTC

My antique Powermac G4 has taken 14 hours to get 20% through a WU; at this rate, it will never finish the queued WU's that used to take only 20 minutes each.

My speedy dual-core PC, on the other hand, whips through each in only 5 hours.

Looks like I'll have to switch my Mac to another BOINC project.
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Message 4188 - Posted: 16 Jul 2008, 17:07:43 UTC - in response to Message 4186.  

Hi,
Apparently you perfer gestapoism to democracy...

The golden Godwin of the day goes to JRenkar ...

Regards,
Carsten



:p
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