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KAMCOBILL

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Message 4315 - Posted: 21 Jul 2008, 22:34:07 UTC

That criteria has been meet, plus Paswword, URL, Country, Zipcode, Team and etc. are the same for all projects. All old projects are and have been attached. The only ones I can't keep attached are the one that BAM retired and keep detaching on Sync with BAM.
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Bill & Patsy
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Message 4316 - Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 1:24:45 UTC - in response to Message 4311.  

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


Just stop already............You don't like the credits given here...

Go somewhere else!

Since this is a problem affecting the entirety of BOINC, NO.

Actually, that's a great suggestion for you, John.

Until a year ago I was happy supporting SETI exclusively. I had done so for a decade. I didn't care a hoot about other credit systems or cross-project parity. Then you and your PC credit police so despoiled the joyful reasons for participating in SETI that many of us just gave up and left.

Now history has shown how wrong you were. A year later there is no "credit inflation", no "credit wars", no starvation of the "below average credits" projects. In other words, there is no inherent credits problem in BOINC. The so-called "problem affecting the entirety of BOINC" is just in your imagination.

Yet, despite the plain evidence, you continue to go around spreading your false gospel, along with threats and intimidation directed at volunteers!.

Why am I wasting time on this? (And it surely has become a waste!) Because I researched and probed this fine project and then elected to support it. Then, just weeks later, like the Shadows returning from the Rim, you showed up. I don't want you to hurt deserving projects like MW the way you hurt SETI.

The credits "problem affecting the entirety of BOINC" is caused by you. Accept the plain evidence of an entire year. There never was a BOINC credits problem. So stop your campaign, leave MW and other projects alone, and your imagined "problem" will go away too.

Trust me.
--Bill

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Stevea

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Message 4317 - Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 1:27:45 UTC - in response to Message 4311.  
Last modified: 22 Jul 2008, 1:30:24 UTC

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


Just stop already............You don't like the credits given here...

Go somewhere else!

Since this is a problem affecting the entirety of BOINC, NO.



Easy fix... go do folding@home only 1 project, no cross project problems there!

Leave the rest of us in peace.

PS: Take the sauger with you..
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zombie67 [MM]
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Message 4320 - Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 3:49:42 UTC - in response to Message 4312.  


There are only two things that are required to get the CPIDs to match. The email addresses must be the same (INCLUDING case). And there must be a path from server to client to server that covers all of the projects. This path must include the project with the OLDEST join date on every client or things come apart.


Ahhh, yes...

I just spent an hour scratching my head trying to remember this caveat to the second criteria required for getting CPID to sync reliably as it stands. :-)

As the Commander Powell once said, "... You forget so many things..." . :-D

Alinator


Also, I think there is something funny with the RS project's server code. If RS was the oldest project, it still won't sinc up properly sometimes. Add to that, RS being currently down...

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John McLeod VII
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Message 4321 - Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 3:52:02 UTC - in response to Message 4317.  

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


Just stop already............You don't like the credits given here...

Go somewhere else!

Since this is a problem affecting the entirety of BOINC, NO.



Easy fix... go do folding@home only 1 project, no cross project problems there!

Leave the rest of us in peace.

PS: Take the sauger with you..

No. Not until the problem is fixed.


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ProfilePaul D. Buck

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Message 4323 - Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 9:15:29 UTC
Last modified: 22 Jul 2008, 9:15:45 UTC

One of the arguments below is directly against the original design intent. If computers double in speed they should double in credit earned per unit time.

The original design was 1 CS was what a reference computer could accomplish in a unit time. If my computer could do 4 times as much I should be able to see 4 CS in the same unit time. If I speed up the computer with hardware or improved software I should see higher earnings.

Had Dr. Anderson listened to those of us that pointed out problems back in BOINC Beta we would not be here now with this problem.

I suppose I should not be surprised that when the choices are to be made, BOINC developers tend to want to implement the worst possible of the choices available...
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John McLeod VII
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Message 4325 - Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 12:56:03 UTC - in response to Message 4317.  

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


Just stop already............You don't like the credits given here...

Go somewhere else!

Since this is a problem affecting the entirety of BOINC, NO.



Easy fix... go do folding@home only 1 project, no cross project problems there!

Leave the rest of us in peace.

PS: Take the sauger with you..

Since you don't seem to like the way the BOINC is supposed to work, I can say the same to you. Go someplace where there is not the problem and leave those of who LIKE the way that BOINC is SUPPOSED TO WORK alone.


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ProfileJayargh
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Message 4326 - Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 13:06:28 UTC - in response to Message 4325.  
Last modified: 22 Jul 2008, 13:51:24 UTC

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


Just stop already............You don't like the credits given here...

Go somewhere else!

Since this is a problem affecting the entirety of BOINC, NO.



Easy fix... go do folding@home only 1 project, no cross project problems there!

Leave the rest of us in peace.

PS: Take the sauger with you..

Since you don't seem to like the way the BOINC is supposed to work, I can say the same to you. Go someplace where there is not the problem and leave those of who LIKE the way that BOINC is SUPPOSED TO WORK alone.



Thats a terrible analogy John lets try these instead:

Its like saying if my car is running fine but my mechanic(you) keeps caliing me and harassing me every day telling me there is something wrong with it and bring it in to get repaired....I will ignore him or tell him leave me alone until the car has a problem or breaks but the mechanic threatens to come steal my car and fix it if I won't....or lets say my car manufacturer (Boinc) has a recall they send me a letter telling me my widget is malfuctioning...but the car runs great and I see no problems....the manufacturer then threatens to reposses the car and fix it even though the problem is not dangerous or a safety problem if I won't bring it in....but because they (Boinc) manufactured it ,they feel they have the right to do anything they see fit with it even though I now own it!

The majority here and at other projects are happy....nothings broken.....so they say leave us alone ...like I told my mechanic and manufacturer,they are telling you.

My suggestion is start your new credit levels 10 times higher than they are and then go harass projects that are too low...including here....that at least makes some sense :)

Better yet why doesn't Boinc hold a DC conference inviting Folding,Grid Republic,etc to decide on a standardized DC credit before they arbitaraly just set their own? hmmmm that may be a better analogy to what you are attempting to do, spreading your ill will everywhere.

Interesting that a year or two ago when Seti had bloated credit and was the highest in Boinc you never saw these guys running around trying to get everyone else adjust the credit...just now hmmmm....smacks of hypocrisy
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John McLeod VII
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Message 4327 - Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 13:59:14 UTC - in response to Message 4326.  

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


Just stop already............You don't like the credits given here...

Go somewhere else!

Since this is a problem affecting the entirety of BOINC, NO.



Easy fix... go do folding@home only 1 project, no cross project problems there!

Leave the rest of us in peace.

PS: Take the sauger with you..

Since you don't seem to like the way the BOINC is supposed to work, I can say the same to you. Go someplace where there is not the problem and leave those of who LIKE the way that BOINC is SUPPOSED TO WORK alone.



Thats a terrible analogy John lets try these instead:

Its like saying if my car is running fine but my mechanic(you) keeps caliing me and harassing me every day telling me there is something wrong with it and bring it in to get repaired....I will ignore him or tell him leave me alone until the car has a problem or breaks but the mechanic threatens to come steal my car and fix it if I won't....or lets say my car manufacturer (Boinc) has a recall they send me a letter telling me my widget is malfuctioning...but the car runs great and I see no problems....the manufacturer then threatens to reposses the car and fix it even though the problem is not dangerous or a safety problem if I won't bring it in....but because they (Boinc) manufactured it ,they feel they have the right to do anything they see fit with it even though I now own it!

The majority here and at other projects are happy....nothings broken.....so they say leave us alone ...like I told my mechanic and manufacturer,they are telling you.

My suggestion is start your new credit levels 10 times higher than they are and then go harass projects that are too low...including here....that at least makes some sense :)

Better yet why doesn't Boinc hold a DC conference inviting Folding,Grid Republic,etc to decide on a standardized DC credit before they arbitaraly just set their own? hmmmm that may be a better analogy to what you are attempting to do, spreading your ill will everywhere.

Interesting that a year or two ago when Seti had bloated credit and was the highest in Boinc you never saw these guys running around trying to get everyone else adjust the credit...just now hmmmm....smacks of hypocrisy

No, it is just reversing the side on a stupid argument that I am tired of getting. BOINC is SUPPOSED to work such that a particular host gets the same credit per hour no matter which project it is working on. People that say stop complaining about something that is not correct are in the wrong.


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Stevea

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Message 4328 - Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 14:12:39 UTC - in response to Message 4325.  

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


Just stop already............You don't like the credits given here...

Go somewhere else!

Since this is a problem affecting the entirety of BOINC, NO.



Easy fix... go do folding@home only 1 project, no cross project problems there!

Leave the rest of us in peace.

PS: Take the sauger with you..

Since you don't seem to like the way the BOINC is supposed to work, I can say the same to you. Go someplace where there is not the problem and leave those of who LIKE the way that BOINC is SUPPOSED TO WORK alone.


Supposed to work according to you and your handful of credit police.
I think its fine the way it is. And seeing as its still the same 10 people complaining, I don't see the point in arguing with the very vocal minority.
So that is my last response you you.

Just go away...
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ProfileJayargh
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Message 4329 - Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 14:15:21 UTC - in response to Message 4327.  
Last modified: 22 Jul 2008, 14:38:00 UTC


No, it is just reversing the side on a stupid argument that I am tired of getting. BOINC is SUPPOSED to work such that a particular host gets the same credit per hour no matter which project it is working on. People that say stop complaining about something that is not correct are in the wrong.


Fair enough if I were to look at it from your side....but I think it is the methods employed that disturb people the most ....after all the participants don't set the credit levels...the projects do...except for here where credit granted is a function of a poll of users at the time and credit granted is the avarage of all votes.....gee a democracy not a dictatorship.....this is why I will defend this projects credit awards as it was not just some arbitrary number thrown out by the project...if this were only the 2nd Boinc project available I might support your arguements....too much water has flowed already though...

What it was supposed to do and now does is a function of Seti letting it get out of control from the beginning until now there are so many projects these attempts just become annoying and counter productive.
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Ageless
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Message 4330 - Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 14:30:47 UTC

I wonder what you want QCN Alpha to do... they don't give out any credits. ;-)
Jord.

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KAMCOBILL

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Message 4333 - Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 14:54:18 UTC

OK By Gosh I think I got it. Give 1 credit per CPU second for all projects.
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STE\/E

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Message 4334 - Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 14:57:45 UTC
Last modified: 22 Jul 2008, 14:58:21 UTC

leave those of who LIKE the way that BOINC is SUPPOSED TO WORK alone.


LOL, John, I thought you were smarter than that to Post something so Hypocritically Stupid. You come in here & Post something about a very Inflammatory Subject Matter & then want to be left alone.

What, you don't think anybody should Post Counter Arguments, we're all just supposed to knuckle under & get down on our knees and beg the Project to lower the Credits ... hahaha, good luck with that !!!

Or maybe we are all supposed to Praise the Lord > Dr. DA who sent amongst us the Prophet JMV who will save us from the Error of our way's & lead us to Salvation in the Promise Land of Lower Credits ... :) hehe
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Message 4335 - Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 15:02:52 UTC - in response to Message 4333.  

OK By Gosh I think I got it. Give 1 credit per CPU second for all projects.


LOL ... Sounds like a Plan to me, I'm Attaching all my Box's to CPDN ASAP if that happens ... :P
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Message 4336 - Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 15:18:12 UTC

It might be a good idea to drop cross-project stats, using the sum of Boinc credits, all together. Some alternative could be worked out, like DC-Vault, where a ranking is made across projects, using the position of a team (or individual) in each project. Could be fine-tuned by adding weights for projects with few or many participants.

If a scheme like that were used by the stats sites, each project would be completely free to use whatever credit calculation best suits them.

Just a suggestion. Don't flame me (too much :p ) pretty pleazzz.

BOINC.BE: For Belgians who love the smell of glowing red cpu's in the morning
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Alinator

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Message 4341 - Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 16:31:08 UTC - in response to Message 4320.  
Last modified: 22 Jul 2008, 16:59:11 UTC



Also, I think there is something funny with the RS project's server code. If RS was the oldest project, it still won't sinc up properly sometimes. Add to that, RS being currently down...


Hmmm...

Well, that might be due to RS having the secondary objective of porting BOINC to php.

OTOH, I haven't had any trouble with my CPID sync'ing up because of RS (or any other project for that matter). Although it did seem to take longer than usual after joining. IIRC, it took about a week or ten days to sync to my 'permanent' CPID instead of the usual couple of days after the first task completed and went through a stat xml cycle.

I hadn't thought about what the effect would be if RS was the oldest project or what would happen if the oldest project wasn't available though.

Of course, I don't have that many hosts or run anywhere near the number of projects available today. The one thing which is true is SAH is my oldest project and all my hosts are attached to it. The other thing which is true is there are still some basic operational areas in BOINC which are kind of shaky and can definitely rear their ugly head given the right set of conditions (like the primary topic in this thread, for example). ;-)

@ KAMCOBILL: Based on your last post (about the CPID problem anyway), this would seem to indicate a BAM problem rather than BOINC per se. I never ran any of the 'retired' projects. However, I used to run Predictor but it remains linked to my CPID even though I haven't crunched a task for them in ages, and have gone months without even doing an update on any of the hosts which are still attached to it.

Alinator
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Stefan Ver3

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Message 4344 - Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 17:18:43 UTC

I'm a bit Off Topic here, but didn't feel like starting a new thread. Lazy, just lazy.
What is up with this box?
Seems to be calculating a bit funny.

What the deuce?

GenuineIntel x86 Family 6 Model 7 Stepping 3 498MHz
With a RAC of 2,644.47? Hmm.

Have to get me one of those! :D :D

O.k. resuming topic ;)

A fancy graph.
The credit granted here really has not deviated much since the longer w/u's, or in the last six months for that matter.
Why this argument all of the sudden? To many quads on the block now? MINT!!!!!
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KAMCOBILL

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Message 4345 - Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 17:25:32 UTC - in response to Message 4341.  



Also, I think there is something funny with the RS project's server code. If RS was the oldest project, it still won't sinc up properly sometimes. Add to that, RS being currently down...


Hmmm...

Well, that might be due to RS having the secondary objective of porting BOINC to php.

OTOH, I haven't had any trouble with my CPID sync'ing up because of RS (or any other project for that matter). Although it did seem to take longer than usual after joining. IIRC, it took about a week or ten days to sync to my 'permanent' CPID instead of the usual couple of days after the first task completed and went through a stat xml cycle.

I hadn't thought about what the effect would be if RS was the oldest project or what would happen if the oldest project wasn't available though.

Of course, I don't have that many hosts or run anywhere near the number of projects available today. The one thing which is true is SAH is my oldest project and all my hosts are attached to it. The other thing which is true is there are still some basic operational areas in BOINC which are kind of shaky and can definitely rear their ugly head given the right set of conditions (like the primary topic in this thread, for example). ;-)

@ KAMCOBILL: Based on your last post (about the CPID problem anyway), this would seem to indicate a BAM problem rather than BOINC per se. I never ran any of the 'retired' projects. However, I used to run Predictor but it remains linked to my CPID even though I haven't crunched a task for them in ages, and have gone months without even doing an update on any of the hosts which are still attached to it.

Alinator


I'm not sure what happen in Nov 2006 besides one of my hosts crashed and then the problem bagan. All my old projects had there CPIDs stolen away in this transition. :D What I can't figure is how can a host have different CPIDs (4 in most of them) and control/change the Project CPIDs when they connect. I thought the Projects Servers controled the hosts. The one good thing is I got down from 10 CPIDs to 4. I even detached from BAM to see if CPID Problem would clear up but it didn't

When BAM retires a project they detach all the hosts from the project and it keeps detaching them for an eternity. An example is ABC@Home Beta. It only has work as needed (Nov 2007 was last WU I finished) & it wasn't reachable for a while so I guess that is why they retired it. I attach to it ever once in a while to see if it up and as soon as my host syncs BAM it detached. If It does give out any work, I'll have to Detach from BAM to run it.

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Alinator

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Message 4348 - Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 17:52:46 UTC - in response to Message 4345.  
Last modified: 22 Jul 2008, 17:53:35 UTC



I'm not sure what happen in Nov 2006 besides one of my hosts crashed and then the problem bagan. All my old projects had there CPIDs stolen away in this transition. :D What I can't figure is how can a host have different CPIDs (4 in most of them) and control/change the Project CPIDs when they connect. I thought the Projects Servers controled the hosts. The one good thing is I got down from 10 CPIDs to 4. I even detached from BAM to see if CPID Problem would clear up but it didn't

When BAM retires a project they detach all the hosts from the project and it keeps detaching them for an eternity. An example is ABC@Home Beta. It only has work as needed (Nov 2007 was last WU I finished) & it wasn't reachable for a while so I guess that is why they retired it. I attach to it ever once in a while to see if it up and as soon as my host syncs BAM it detached. If It does give out any work, I'll have to Detach from BAM to run it.



Hmmm...

Now that is interesting. I seem to remember loosing a couple of host CPID's on BOINCStats around then, but everything resync'ed on the same Account CPID.

The only side effect was a couple of hosts lost their graphical data for everything from before the event.

Let me check my logs and get back to you on this.

Alinator
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