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STE\/E

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Message 4774 - Posted: 17 Aug 2008, 21:50:04 UTC
Last modified: 17 Aug 2008, 21:57:45 UTC

I just wish I had the smarts, energy and time to do what Crunch3r does. But I don't


No you don't do you Kevint, you just use other easier methods to gain an advantage at Projects where you can which I've proven a few times already. Like i told you once before at another Project, you shouldn't throw stones when you live in a glass house ... :)

and you did call him a cheat... no use in denying that


I don't recall denying it in any Post ???
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Message 4775 - Posted: 17 Aug 2008, 22:13:38 UTC


All you ranters about credit.

Crunch3r has released his first optimized app to the general public here

http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/forum_thread.php?id=307

He did not need to do so then but did anyway.

I guess I will need to go and download it and start use it.
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Message 4776 - Posted: 17 Aug 2008, 23:16:18 UTC - in response to Message 4775.  


All you ranters about credit.

Crunch3r has released his first optimized app to the general public here

http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/forum_thread.php?id=307

He did not need to do so then but did anyway.

I guess I will need to go and download it and start use it.


LOL ... Your about a day late and a dollar short there Kevint, those app's were released close to 3 months ago ...
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Message 4777 - Posted: 18 Aug 2008, 0:27:48 UTC - in response to Message 4773.  

With all due respect:



The real question is; Is that 'fair' in the general BOINC context?

Alinator


Fair or not fair, it has been discussed many many times. Even on the SETI boards. that optimized apps can be used. And that if you can develop an optimized app you have the right to use it. Open source is just that, Open. What Crunch3r is doing is completely legal and in no way constitutes cheating. It does give him an advantage, but an advantage that he has EARNED!


Please don't just partially quote me if you are then going use it out of context.

I never said Crunch3r was cheating; I said he knows he is working the system just like anybody else has the full right to do as well.

The matter of whether he has earned anything or not has absolutely no bearing on my restatement of the issue as one of fairness in the general BOINC context, regardless of whether the topic has been discussed until the cows come home or not.

Regards,

Alinator
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Message 4778 - Posted: 18 Aug 2008, 1:35:11 UTC
Last modified: 18 Aug 2008, 1:36:40 UTC

Well... In the little time what I was in this project, I think what all of you don't remember Copernico or Galileo...

Are you the 'Inquisición'?

Must Copernico or Galileo say that the Earth is center of the universe and the Sun is orbitting arround the Earth?

You will get a genius and throw him to hogere?


Simple minds...

[edit] AH! I'm sorry for my bad english...[/edit]

Best regards.
Logan.

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Message 4779 - Posted: 18 Aug 2008, 2:50:31 UTC
Last modified: 18 Aug 2008, 2:51:44 UTC

Wait...I'm confused. Someone found a way to crunch the same work, only faster. Right? How is this in ANY way a bad thing?

The project benefits, so they should be cheering it on...right?

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Message 4780 - Posted: 18 Aug 2008, 4:17:18 UTC

After reading all the whining and crying here I figure this would be the best thread to bring this up. Last night I had "the dream" about Milla. Woohoo! Much better than a bunch of BOINC credits. Oh yeah, she had the nerve to say I got her pregnant. Hopefully that's nothing that an optimized Milkyway app can't handle.
me@rescam.org
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Message 4781 - Posted: 18 Aug 2008, 5:38:42 UTC - in response to Message 4773.  
Last modified: 18 Aug 2008, 6:03:04 UTC

zeitgeistmovie.com wrote:
As has been posted many times. The source is open and available to everyone.

Yes, it has been posted many times that source is open and available to everyone. But I have never actually seen any location of the source code. UncleVom was asking for the location of source code here as well, but there was no reply to him.
I was looking for source myself very hard, but it must be very well hidden, as I did not find it...

So is the source really open and available to everyone? Or is it just common false belief?
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Message 4782 - Posted: 18 Aug 2008, 6:31:01 UTC - in response to Message 4781.  
Last modified: 18 Aug 2008, 6:31:32 UTC

zeitgeistmovie.com wrote:
As has been posted many times. The source is open and available to everyone.

Yes, it has been posted many times that source is open and available to everyone. But I have never actually seen any location of the source code. UncleVom was asking for the location of source code here as well, but there was no reply to him.
I was looking for source myself very hard, but it must be very well hidden, as I did not find it...

So is the source really open and available to everyone? Or is it just common false belief?


obviously not hard enough as it's being "hidden" in plain sight ....
http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~deselt/

Join Support science! Joinc Team BOINC United now!
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ProfileWestsail and *Pyxey*
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Message 4783 - Posted: 18 Aug 2008, 10:07:09 UTC
Last modified: 18 Aug 2008, 10:18:48 UTC

Bad form Poor!
If you have an issue, it should have been taken up privately.
Personally, I can't see how this could possibly not be a good thing. How is increasing a system's efficency detrimental? I fear that this may be simply a misunderstanding of exactly what is occuring.
Would it be better to use more electricity/resources to accomplish the same work?

Another way to look at it:
I have some skill for building engines that are very efficent provinding sigificant horsepower gains. So if I use these skills to propel my car down the track faster than a similar spec but not as efficent motor; am I then cheating?
Gawd, imagine a world without progress of any kind. How sad would that be?
Peace!
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Message 4784 - Posted: 18 Aug 2008, 10:42:55 UTC - in response to Message 4783.  
Last modified: 18 Aug 2008, 10:43:48 UTC

Bad form Poor!
If you have an issue, it should have been taken up privately.
Personally, I can't see how this could possibly not be a good thing. How is increasing a system's efficency detrimental? I fear that this may be simply a misunderstanding of exactly what is occuring.
Would it be better to use more electricity/resources to accomplish the same work?

Another way to look at it:
I have some skill for building engines that are very efficent provinding sigificant horsepower gains. So if I use these skills to propel my car down the track faster than a similar spec but not as efficent motor; am I then cheating?
Gawd, imagine a world without progress of any kind. How sad would that be?
Peace!


Yes, I probably could have handled it differently, but I did try the Private route to find out what was going on (Not with Crunch3r but through other sources) & it was going no where fast or at least I wasn't privy to the fact it was anyway so I guess out of Frustration I opened it up with this Thread.

Not all is as it seems sometimes though, right now I'm being cast as the Bad Guy & Crunch3r is the Good Guy & I'm willing to accept that role for now for the sake of keeping things fairly civil in the Thread up till now.
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Message 4785 - Posted: 18 Aug 2008, 11:58:59 UTC - in response to Message 4767.  

Sorry it's taking some time but i'm working out a fix for this. Basically i have to fiddle around with the validator to make sure these things aren't happening. Sorry we can't give you an immediate fix but needless to say i'm aware of it and working on a solution.


Your post confuses me; could you tell us what exactly the problem is? Is it just a matter of private but submitted optimisations as Crunch3r claims or is there something else going on? (why would it involve the validator?)
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Message 4786 - Posted: 18 Aug 2008, 12:03:39 UTC - in response to Message 4785.  
Last modified: 18 Aug 2008, 12:08:38 UTC

Sorry it's taking some time but i'm working out a fix for this. Basically i have to fiddle around with the validator to make sure these things aren't happening. Sorry we can't give you an immediate fix but needless to say i'm aware of it and working on a solution.


Your post confuses me; could you tell us what exactly the problem is? Is it just a matter of private but submitted optimisations as Crunch3r claims or is there something else going on? (why would it involve the validator?)



Could be the thing 'the same work, the same credits, but in a little time'? It's only that, I think... ;)


Best regards.
Logan.

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Message 4788 - Posted: 18 Aug 2008, 13:48:11 UTC

I have to say I wouldn't mind being able to run the faster code. But I know that it was developed on his own time and up to him if he wants to release it.
Doesn't expecting the unexpected make the unexpected the expected?
If it makes sense, DON'T do it.
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Message 4789 - Posted: 18 Aug 2008, 13:52:02 UTC - in response to Message 4782.  

Crunch3r wrote:
obviously not hard enough as it's being "hidden" in plain sight ....
http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~deselt/

Wow! It is available, but I would say it is well-hidden under camouflage net... Now tell me the secret, how did you find it? Did you browse paper (the last one on project home page, but some other were also published in news section) and just sniffed in the parent directory?

BTW, the directory doesn't look like SCM. Is it really official stuff?
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Message 4790 - Posted: 18 Aug 2008, 14:12:52 UTC - in response to Message 4789.  

Crunch3r wrote:
obviously not hard enough as it's being "hidden" in plain sight ....
http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~deselt/

Now tell me the secret, how did you find it? Did you browse paper (the last one on project home page, but some other were also published in news section) and just sniffed in the parent directory?


The secret is called "asking for it"... but don't tell anyone ;)


BTW, the directory doesn't look like SCM.


???



Join Support science! Joinc Team BOINC United now!
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Message 4791 - Posted: 18 Aug 2008, 16:51:30 UTC - in response to Message 4784.  

...in the Thread up till now.

Now.

Let's see as a well known credit whore you attach this huge farm of yours to Cosmology because they were giving out excessive credits. They lower their granted credits and right around the same time Milkyway starts giving out excessive credits. So you move everything over here. And when Mr. Smarty Pants optimizes the code Grandpa gets upset because some young whipper snapper is kicking his old wrinkly butt in RAC. The hell with my SSI I want to rant about credits!

You suck.

Sincerely,

Someone in the top 1% overall boinc with only an OLD cheesy Prescott and a part-time AMD who doesn't whore for credits.
me@rescam.org
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Message 4792 - Posted: 18 Aug 2008, 19:03:30 UTC - in response to Message 4791.  
Last modified: 18 Aug 2008, 19:58:45 UTC

...in the Thread up till now.

Now.

Let's see as a well known credit whore you attach this huge farm of yours to Cosmology because they were giving out excessive credits. They lower their granted credits and right around the same time Milkyway starts giving out excessive credits. So you move everything over here. And when Mr. Smarty Pants optimizes the code Grandpa gets upset because some young whipper snapper is kicking his old wrinkly butt in RAC. The hell with my SSI I want to rant about credits!

You suck.

Sincerely,

Someone in the top 1% overall boinc with only an OLD cheesy Prescott and a part-time AMD who doesn't whore for credits.


Dang, and just when I thought we could be friends again ... Sincerely

PS: I suppose this means all the Invites I receive by PM to Join either the BOINC Synergy or SETI.USA Teams have been Voided out too & just when I was going to make a decision between the two ... :)
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Message 4793 - Posted: 18 Aug 2008, 21:19:49 UTC - in response to Message 4792.  

...in the Thread up till now.

Now.

Let's see as a well known credit whore you attach this huge farm of yours to Cosmology because they were giving out excessive credits. They lower their granted credits and right around the same time Milkyway starts giving out excessive credits. So you move everything over here. And when Mr. Smarty Pants optimizes the code Grandpa gets upset because some young whipper snapper is kicking his old wrinkly butt in RAC. The hell with my SSI I want to rant about credits!

You suck.

Sincerely,

Someone in the top 1% overall boinc with only an OLD cheesy Prescott and a part-time AMD who doesn't whore for credits.

Dang, and just when I thought we could be friends again ... Sincerely

PS: I suppose this means all the Invites I receive by PM to Join either the BOINC Synergy or SETI.USA Teams have been Voided out too & just when I was going to make a decision between the two ... :)

Those were fake. Plus they don't come with free credits. Didn't you notice the little ;) winky at the end?
me@rescam.org
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Message 4794 - Posted: 18 Aug 2008, 21:31:16 UTC - in response to Message 4793.  

...in the Thread up till now.

Now.

Let's see as a well known credit whore you attach this huge farm of yours to Cosmology because they were giving out excessive credits. They lower their granted credits and right around the same time Milkyway starts giving out excessive credits. So you move everything over here. And when Mr. Smarty Pants optimizes the code Grandpa gets upset because some young whipper snapper is kicking his old wrinkly butt in RAC. The hell with my SSI I want to rant about credits!

You suck.

Sincerely,

Someone in the top 1% overall boinc with only an OLD cheesy Prescott and a part-time AMD who doesn't whore for credits.

Dang, and just when I thought we could be friends again ... Sincerely

PS: I suppose this means all the Invites I receive by PM to Join either the BOINC Synergy or SETI.USA Teams have been Voided out too & just when I was going to make a decision between the two ... :)

Those were fake. Plus they don't come with free credits. Didn't you notice the little ;) winky at the end?


Okay, since they were fake I'll take BOINC Synergy off my Short List of Teams to join then ... :P
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