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Peter Hucker

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Message 70045 - Posted: 24 Aug 2020, 12:26:15 UTC

I have a couple of machines which each have two 12-core CPUs. Either Windows 10 or the motherboard is being clever, because if I run two 12-core Nbody tasks, they're placed on seperate CPUs (and hence have their own RAM and can communicate with the RAM, and core to core within the program faster). I was wondering how stupid Windows could be, and it wasn't.

The image below shows me stopping one of the 12-core tasks, showing the other was probably on a single CPU.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kf0azlmd9zm97lg/numa.jpg?dl=0

It's just a pity Boinc/MW server isn't so bright. It wanted to give me 16-core tasks, which I can only run one of, wasting 8 cores.
I had to edit a config file to sort it, which should not even happen in this century. GUI please.

And could somebody fix it so I can get Nbody and Seperation at once, while running the Seperation on the GPU and the Nbody on the CPU? Seperation on the CPU is absurdly slow. Einstein has the option to not allow CPU tasks for which a GPU version is available.
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Message 70046 - Posted: 24 Aug 2020, 21:33:01 UTC
Last modified: 24 Aug 2020, 21:37:06 UTC

I run GPU only, but you may find what you need here to write an app_config.xml file.

App_config.xml is to be placed in C:\ProgramData\BOINC\projects\milkyway.cs.rpi.edu_milkyway. To run 3 tasks with 8 cores each use notepad or other text editor and copy/paste a file such as:
<app_config>
<app>
<name>milkyway_nbody</name>
<max_concurrent>3</max_concurrent>
</app>
<app_version>
<app_name>milkyway_nbody</app_name>
<plan_class>mt</plan_class>
<cmdline>--nthreads 8</cmdline>
</app_version>
</app_config>
You will have to view hidden files to see Program Data. When written in notepad, it will appear as above, but you will need to "Save as... "app_config.xml" (without the quotes) and chose file File type *.* instead of .txt in the drop down.. To edit the .xml file, open it with Notepad by right-clicking on the file and selecting Edit.

This should get you started. I had waited hoping that a moderator or more experienced user would help you. Good luck.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 70047 - Posted: 24 Aug 2020, 21:44:21 UTC - in response to Message 70046.  
Last modified: 24 Aug 2020, 21:45:49 UTC

I run GPU only, but you may find what you need here to write an app_config.xml file.

App_config.xml is to be placed in C:\ProgramData\BOINC\projects\milkyway.cs.rpi.edu_milkyway. To run 3 tasks with 8 cores each use notepad or other text editor and copy/paste a file such as:
<app_config>
<app>
<name>milkyway_nbody</name>
<max_concurrent>3</max_concurrent>
</app>
<app_version>
<app_name>milkyway_nbody</app_name>
<plan_class>mt</plan_class>
<cmdline>--nthreads 8</cmdline>
</app_version>
</app_config>
You will have to view hidden files to see Program Data. When written in notepad, it will appear as above, but you will need to "Save as... "app_config.xml" (without the quotes) and chose file File type *.* instead of .txt in the drop down.. To edit the .xml file, open it with Notepad by right-clicking on the file and selecting Edit.

This should get you started. I had waited hoping that a moderator or more experienced user would help you. Good luck.


Thanks, but I've already sorted that with the help of another MW user (but using two 12 core apps, which is probably most efficient because no app gets spread between physical CPUs). My problem remains that I cannot allocate different apps to CPU and GPU. I would expect what I've done to work, I ticked only the Nbody app in my preferences, but also ticked "give me other apps if none are available". I thought this would mean a CPU request would give me Nbody as I asked, but a GPU request would fail to get Nbody as that doesn't do GPU, so would default to Seperation as I'd ticked the willing to do something else box. But I actually get Seperation on the CPU, which is an annoying waste. So at the moment I'm having to pick either the CPU or GPU for Milkyway and use the other on another project.
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Message 70048 - Posted: 24 Aug 2020, 22:39:17 UTC - in response to Message 70047.  
Last modified: 24 Aug 2020, 22:41:07 UTC

I run GPU only, but you may find what you need here to write an app_config.xml file.

App_config.xml is to be placed in C:\ProgramData\BOINC\projects\milkyway.cs.rpi.edu_milkyway. To run 3 tasks with 8 cores each use notepad or other text editor and copy/paste a file such as:
<app_config>
<app>
<name>milkyway_nbody</name>
<max_concurrent>3</max_concurrent>
</app>
<app_version>
<app_name>milkyway_nbody</app_name>
<plan_class>mt</plan_class>
<cmdline>--nthreads 8</cmdline>
</app_version>
</app_config>
You will have to view hidden files to see Program Data. When written in notepad, it will appear as above, but you will need to "Save as... "app_config.xml" (without the quotes) and chose file File type *.* instead of .txt in the drop down.. To edit the .xml file, open it with Notepad by right-clicking on the file and selecting Edit.

This should get you started. I had waited hoping that a moderator or more experienced user would help you. Good luck.


Thanks, but I've already sorted that with the help of another MW user (but using two 12 core apps, which is probably most efficient because no app gets spread between physical CPUs). My problem remains that I cannot allocate different apps to CPU and GPU. I would expect what I've done to work, I ticked only the Nbody app in my preferences, but also ticked "give me other apps if none are available". I thought this would mean a CPU request would give me Nbody as I asked, but a GPU request would fail to get Nbody as that doesn't do GPU, so would default to Seperation as I'd ticked the willing to do something else box. But I actually get Seperation on the CPU, which is an annoying waste. So at the moment I'm having to pick either the CPU or GPU for Milkyway and use the other on another project.


Load up a 2nd Boinc in a seperate folder and setup 2 venues, one for the gpu and one for the cpu's, excluding the gpu in the one you want cpu tasks and vice versa in the other instance of Boinc.

ORRR just get a 2nd pc and split the tasks that way.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 70049 - Posted: 24 Aug 2020, 22:41:56 UTC - in response to Message 70048.  

Load up a 2nd Boinc in a seperate folder and setup 2 venues, one for the gpu and one for the cpu's, excluding the gpu in the one you want cpu tasks and vice versa in the other instance of Boinc.


Excellent idea. I might try that if I can be bothered, seems like a lot of hassle though. Especially when they could fix it on the server end. But we all know they never do things like that here.
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Message 70050 - Posted: 25 Aug 2020, 9:59:04 UTC - in response to Message 70049.  

Load up a 2nd Boinc in a seperate folder and setup 2 venues, one for the gpu and one for the cpu's, excluding the gpu in the one you want cpu tasks and vice versa in the other instance of Boinc.


Excellent idea. I might try that if I can be bothered, seems like a lot of hassle though. Especially when they could fix it on the server end. But we all know they never do things like that here.


LOTS of Projects are what they are, free programing help is easy to come by but GOOD and FREE programming help is hard to find. Sure they could ask as there are resources if they wanted to take advantage of them but it seems they don't wish too.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 70051 - Posted: 25 Aug 2020, 19:36:53 UTC - in response to Message 70050.  

Load up a 2nd Boinc in a seperate folder and setup 2 venues, one for the gpu and one for the cpu's, excluding the gpu in the one you want cpu tasks and vice versa in the other instance of Boinc.


Excellent idea. I might try that if I can be bothered, seems like a lot of hassle though. Especially when they could fix it on the server end. But we all know they never do things like that here.


LOTS of Projects are what they are, free programing help is easy to come by but GOOD and FREE programming help is hard to find. Sure they could ask as there are resources if they wanted to take advantage of them but it seems they don't wish too.


I'm not sure why they need to program anything. There's this program called Boinc server, right? You just tell it how you want your project set up, the programming is already done. In Milkyway's case, the GPU version of Seperation should be classed as a seperate app, like it is in Einstein, then WUs could be sent to the correct chips. And god knows how they managed to break the server's ability to upload and download workunits at once.
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Message 70052 - Posted: 26 Aug 2020, 12:09:28 UTC - in response to Message 70051.  

Load up a 2nd Boinc in a seperate folder and setup 2 venues, one for the gpu and one for the cpu's, excluding the gpu in the one you want cpu tasks and vice versa in the other instance of Boinc.


Excellent idea. I might try that if I can be bothered, seems like a lot of hassle though. Especially when they could fix it on the server end. But we all know they never do things like that here.


LOTS of Projects are what they are, free programing help is easy to come by but GOOD and FREE programming help is hard to find. Sure they could ask as there are resources if they wanted to take advantage of them but it seems they don't wish too.


I'm not sure why they need to program anything. There's this program called Boinc server, right? You just tell it how you want your project set up, the programming is already done. In Milkyway's case, the GPU version of Seperation should be classed as a seperate app, like it is in Einstein, then WUs could be sent to the correct chips. And god knows how they managed to break the server's ability to upload and download workunits at once.


The software for the Boinc Server is soooo generic and setup for how Seti does things that changes are required if you want to run any other project, change an Admin or two over the years and how and what changes are made are lost.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 70053 - Posted: 26 Aug 2020, 19:27:00 UTC - in response to Message 70052.  

Load up a 2nd Boinc in a seperate folder and setup 2 venues, one for the gpu and one for the cpu's, excluding the gpu in the one you want cpu tasks and vice versa in the other instance of Boinc.


Excellent idea. I might try that if I can be bothered, seems like a lot of hassle though. Especially when they could fix it on the server end. But we all know they never do things like that here.


LOTS of Projects are what they are, free programing help is easy to come by but GOOD and FREE programming help is hard to find. Sure they could ask as there are resources if they wanted to take advantage of them but it seems they don't wish too.


I'm not sure why they need to program anything. There's this program called Boinc server, right? You just tell it how you want your project set up, the programming is already done. In Milkyway's case, the GPU version of Seperation should be classed as a seperate app, like it is in Einstein, then WUs could be sent to the correct chips. And god knows how they managed to break the server's ability to upload and download workunits at once.


The software for the Boinc Server is soooo generic and setup for how Seti does things that changes are required if you want to run any other project, change an Admin or two over the years and how and what changes are made are lost.


Looks like the server software needs re-doing aswell as the client.
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Message 70054 - Posted: 27 Aug 2020, 9:52:35 UTC - in response to Message 70053.  

Load up a 2nd Boinc in a seperate folder and setup 2 venues, one for the gpu and one for the cpu's, excluding the gpu in the one you want cpu tasks and vice versa in the other instance of Boinc.


Excellent idea. I might try that if I can be bothered, seems like a lot of hassle though. Especially when they could fix it on the server end. But we all know they never do things like that here.


LOTS of Projects are what they are, free programing help is easy to come by but GOOD and FREE programming help is hard to find. Sure they could ask as there are resources if they wanted to take advantage of them but it seems they don't wish too.


I'm not sure why they need to program anything. There's this program called Boinc server, right? You just tell it how you want your project set up, the programming is already done. In Milkyway's case, the GPU version of Seperation should be classed as a seperate app, like it is in Einstein, then WUs could be sent to the correct chips. And god knows how they managed to break the server's ability to upload and download workunits at once.


The software for the Boinc Server is soooo generic and setup for how Seti does things that changes are required if you want to run any other project, change an Admin or two over the years and how and what changes are made are lost.


Looks like the server software needs re-doing aswell as the client.


You are a real dreamer aren't you... :-) You do know Dr A is in charge of that too...right?
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Peter Hucker

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Message 70056 - Posted: 27 Aug 2020, 21:30:24 UTC - in response to Message 70054.  

The software for the Boinc Server is soooo generic and setup for how Seti does things that changes are required if you want to run any other project, change an Admin or two over the years and how and what changes are made are lost.


Looks like the server software needs re-doing aswell as the client.


You are a real dreamer aren't you... :-) You do know Dr A is in charge of that too...right?


If Boinc was commercial it would have gone out of business.
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Message 70057 - Posted: 27 Aug 2020, 21:45:55 UTC - in response to Message 70056.  

The software for the Boinc Server is soooo generic and setup for how Seti does things that changes are required if you want to run any other project, change an Admin or two over the years and how and what changes are made are lost.


Looks like the server software needs re-doing aswell as the client.


You are a real dreamer aren't you... :-) You do know Dr A is in charge of that too...right?


If Boinc was commercial it would have gone out of business.


It's always been free, it was designed that way in the very first paper written for the funding to create it.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 70058 - Posted: 27 Aug 2020, 21:50:07 UTC - in response to Message 70057.  

The software for the Boinc Server is soooo generic and setup for how Seti does things that changes are required if you want to run any other project, change an Admin or two over the years and how and what changes are made are lost.


Looks like the server software needs re-doing aswell as the client.


You are a real dreamer aren't you... :-) You do know Dr A is in charge of that too...right?


If Boinc was commercial it would have gone out of business.


It's always been free, it was designed that way in the very first paper written for the funding to create it.


I know, I was just pointing out how many bugs are in it. Imagine a big company like Microsoft releasing an OS with er.... I've forgotten my point.
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Message 70060 - Posted: 28 Aug 2020, 3:03:25 UTC - in response to Message 70058.  

The software for the Boinc Server is soooo generic and setup for how Seti does things that changes are required if you want to run any other project, change an Admin or two over the years and how and what changes are made are lost.


Looks like the server software needs re-doing aswell as the client.


You are a real dreamer aren't you... :-) You do know Dr A is in charge of that too...right?


If Boinc was commercial it would have gone out of business.


It's always been free, it was designed that way in the very first paper written for the funding to create it.


I know, I was just pointing out how many bugs are in it. Imagine a big company like Microsoft releasing an OS with er.... I've forgotten my point.


As Trump says 'it is what it is' and we all have to deal with it. Hopefully with the totally 64 bit versions coming it will be alot better.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 70061 - Posted: 28 Aug 2020, 18:12:26 UTC - in response to Message 70060.  

As Trump says 'it is what it is' and we all have to deal with it. Hopefully with the totally 64 bit versions coming it will be alot better.


Boinc is being totally rewritten?
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Message 70062 - Posted: 28 Aug 2020, 20:01:51 UTC - in response to Message 70061.  

No, they are just dropping all the x86 32 bit versions.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 70063 - Posted: 28 Aug 2020, 21:23:17 UTC - in response to Message 70062.  
Last modified: 28 Aug 2020, 21:23:45 UTC

No, they are just dropping all the x86 32 bit versions.


What did you mean by "Hopefully with the totally 64 bit versions coming it will be a lot better"?

Oh, sorry, two of you in here now. The other guy! Oy you! What did you mean by the above?
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Message 70070 - Posted: 29 Aug 2020, 2:53:30 UTC - in response to Message 70063.  
Last modified: 29 Aug 2020, 2:57:34 UTC

No, they are just dropping all the x86 32 bit versions.


What did you mean by "Hopefully with the totally 64 bit versions coming it will be a lot better"?

Oh, sorry, two of you in here now. The other guy! Oy you! What did you mean by the above?


Simple no more 32 bit versions of Boinc will be written and all future version will be 64 bit ONLY!! They are removing ALL the 32 bit legacy stuff from the client side, that's us, software. I have no clue if they are doing the same to the server side or not but ALOT of projects are dumping 32 bit apps going forward. They will continue to provide Pi and Droid stuff but not 32 bit computer stuff. A few projects have already done it while others are analying the 32 bit usage percentage at their projects, those that have reported the results have said it's under 5% now.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 70075 - Posted: 29 Aug 2020, 18:23:08 UTC - in response to Message 70070.  

No, they are just dropping all the x86 32 bit versions.


What did you mean by "Hopefully with the totally 64 bit versions coming it will be a lot better"?

Oh, sorry, two of you in here now. The other guy! Oy you! What did you mean by the above?


Simple no more 32 bit versions of Boinc will be written and all future version will be 64 bit ONLY!! They are removing ALL the 32 bit legacy stuff from the client side, that's us, software. I have no clue if they are doing the same to the server side or not but ALOT of projects are dumping 32 bit apps going forward. They will continue to provide Pi and Droid stuff but not 32 bit computer stuff. A few projects have already done it while others are analying the 32 bit usage percentage at their projects, those that have reported the results have said it's under 5% now.


How will this make it better? Twice the effort going into 64 bit? Less untidy programming catering for both?
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Message 70078 - Posted: 29 Aug 2020, 20:03:26 UTC - in response to Message 70075.  

How will this make it better? Twice the effort going into 64 bit? Less untidy programming catering for both?


If they actually revisit the codebase and remove all the workarounds and jumps to handle 32 bit code, it would reduce the size of the applications and possibly speed them up.
Mainly talking about the BOINC applications like the client and the manager. The science apps are a different story. They said a long time ago that the 32 bit science apps are faster than the equivalent 64 bit app in some cases because the memory access is simpler.
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