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Profilemikey
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Message 73291 - Posted: 4 May 2022, 11:00:55 UTC - in response to Message 73290.  

Science isn't just about computing. There are supercomputers 100 times more powerful than Milkyway@home, there are more researchers using powerful supercomputers than those use BOINC.


So they must have the money to pay for the electricity and using that expensive supercomputer. So why can't we get in on a bit of that?


Because grant money is written to specifically prevent that

But the scientific impact is less than what you'd expect. The only program you can profit from running it right now is cryptocurrency, and yeah, it does change the world by accelerating climate change.


Just as well I'm an atheist.[/quote]

You can be anything you like, crypto currency includes Gridcoins which I know you get, I get them as well.
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Message 73295 - Posted: 4 May 2022, 11:17:25 UTC - in response to Message 73291.  
Last modified: 4 May 2022, 11:17:59 UTC

So they must have the money to pay for the electricity and using that expensive supercomputer. So why can't we get in on a bit of that?
Because grant money is written to specifically prevent that
But it's paying for computer equipment and electricity, surely a grant can pay for that.

But the scientific impact is less than what you'd expect. The only program you can profit from running it right now is cryptocurrency, and yeah, it does change the world by accelerating climate change.
Just as well I'm an atheist.
You can be anything you like, crypto currency includes Gridcoins which I know you get, I get them as well.
I meant an atheist of climate change :-P
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Message 73298 - Posted: 4 May 2022, 13:11:30 UTC

Sorry about that, I've restarted systems.

I'm in the middle of 3 weeks of work-related travel, so I'm afraid I'm not as attentive as I would be if I were at RPI!
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Message 73301 - Posted: 4 May 2022, 13:28:32 UTC - in response to Message 73298.  

Thanks
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Message 73302 - Posted: 4 May 2022, 13:33:06 UTC

Where these 11 million N-body tasks came from?! I thought that mess was cleared uu bu apparently not....
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Message 73303 - Posted: 4 May 2022, 13:33:30 UTC - in response to Message 73298.  

Sorry about that, I've restarted systems.

I'm in the middle of 3 weeks of work-related travel, so I'm afraid I'm not as attentive as I would be if I were at RPI!


Safe Travels! And thanks for getting it up and running again. I can see that stuff has refreshed, WU's can now be reported, and new ones sent out.
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Message 73305 - Posted: 4 May 2022, 13:42:15 UTC - in response to Message 73260.  

Well, based on the number of Nbody WUs that are waiting to be sent, it looks like the WUs that need re-validation were kicked back to the surface! I'm going to let things run. If you wind up with problems getting work, please let me know and I will figure something out.

If we can just let this run then I think all those "stuck" WUs will finally be processed, although it will take a while for people to work through 11M of them...


It seems to be working right, the nbody wus I'm receiving are the wingmen of wus crunched before April 20. Hope someone is crunching my wingmen's :)
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Message 73306 - Posted: 4 May 2022, 13:43:48 UTC

just now got 100 n body tasks. all _2. wohoo!!
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Message 73316 - Posted: 4 May 2022, 16:42:57 UTC

Oh Happy Day! I am pleased to report that one of my 'don't need' tasks has been validated and credit issued!
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Profilemikey
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Message 73318 - Posted: 5 May 2022, 2:28:40 UTC - in response to Message 73295.  

So they must have the money to pay for the electricity and using that expensive supercomputer. So why can't we get in on a bit of that?
Because grant money is written to specifically prevent that


But it's paying for computer equipment and electricity, surely a grant can pay for that.


I think that would be ripe for cheating and you and I would still never see a nickel

But the scientific impact is less than what you'd expect. The only program you can profit from running it right now is cryptocurrency, and yeah, it does change the world by accelerating climate change.
Just as well I'm an atheist.


You can be anything you like, crypto currency includes Gridcoins which I know you get, I get them as well.


I meant an atheist of climate change :-P


That's okay too, it probably means you are more aware of the associated costs of things as opposed to the person buying a hybrid vehicle with stars in their eyes and dreams of using solar panels to charge it.
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Message 73319 - Posted: 5 May 2022, 2:30:45 UTC - in response to Message 73305.  

Well, based on the number of Nbody WUs that are waiting to be sent, it looks like the WUs that need re-validation were kicked back to the surface! I'm going to let things run. If you wind up with problems getting work, please let me know and I will figure something out.

If we can just let this run then I think all those "stuck" WUs will finally be processed, although it will take a while for people to work through 11M of them...


It seems to be working right, the nbody wus I'm receiving are the wingmen of wus crunched before April 20. Hope someone is crunching my wingmen's :)


I probably aborted a few of them myself, they had run for between 2 and 3 days and still had a LONG LONG way to go.
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Mr P Hucker
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Message 73324 - Posted: 5 May 2022, 6:04:02 UTC - in response to Message 73318.  

But it's paying for computer equipment and electricity, surely a grant can pay for that.
I think that would be ripe for cheating and you and I would still never see a nickel
I don't see why it's any easier to cheat there than anywhere else with grants. I've used grant money to buy a GPU for playing games at work!

I meant an atheist of climate change :-P
That's okay too, it probably means you are more aware of the associated costs of things as opposed to the person buying a hybrid vehicle with stars in their eyes and dreams of using solar panels to charge it.
I quote from Doctor Rodney McKay of Stargate Atlantis :-) "A solar panel is only good for charging a golf cart"

As I've said before, we're already consuming all the green energy that's made. If we add more load to the system to charge cars, they'll have to up the coal/gas/oil fired stations outputs. Plus there's the rare Lithium mining for the batteries, which is very harmful to the workers, and it's running out.

What we need is more nuclear stations and more research into fusion etc.
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Message 73327 - Posted: 5 May 2022, 12:21:26 UTC - in response to Message 73324.  

In a few generations, all cars will be electric since fossil fuels can't last forever. Even hydrogen cars require a small high-voltage battery to power an electric motor. Since it takes a couple generations to change the infrastructure of the world, science nerds who care about the future economy are starting now, and hybrids use LESS coal/gas/oil than normal cars. We need to work out the issues such as getting enough lithium fast enough (and recycling the lithium we have), or perhaps eventually using various different battery technologies. Yes, there is a current shortage of lithium due to sudden increased demand, but the world is not running out.

Solar power is currently cheaper than electricity from fossil fuels where I live (there is plenty of Sun). This includes the cost of purchasing and installing the solar panels. When uranium and fossil fuels are used up (in maybe several generations), pumped storage hydropower could store backup power from various renewable energy sources such as solar. Because diversification is good, batteries can also be used.

It's not good to stereotype people who are laying the groundwork for the future as "starry eyed". The future is tricky because there is no clear or simple answer. Likely, there are many good answers that need to be explored. These advanced technologies need time to develop and mature. Heck, some solutions are simple. Some small percentage of human population can heat their homes in the winter burning dead trees found in forests, reducing the risk of forest fires. Ocean rise displacing half a billion people reducing the population capacity of the Earth isn't a practical solution.

I do agree that fission (and the Allam cycle) are short-term solutions. LFTRs, if we could figure them out, would be a mid-term solution. The only certain long-term solution is renewable energy. If we are lucky, we can eventually figure out how to get self-sustaining tritium supply to power a fusion reactor that doesn't cost more to build and maintain than the value of the electricity it produces.
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Profilemikey
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Message 73328 - Posted: 5 May 2022, 12:28:09 UTC - in response to Message 73324.  

But it's paying for computer equipment and electricity, surely a grant can pay for that.
I think that would be ripe for cheating and you and I would still never see a nickel
I don't see why it's any easier to cheat there than anywhere else with grants. I've used grant money to buy a GPU for playing games at work!

I meant an atheist of climate change :-P
That's okay too, it probably means you are more aware of the associated costs of things as opposed to the person buying a hybrid vehicle with stars in their eyes and dreams of using solar panels to charge it.


I quote from Doctor Rodney McKay of Stargate Atlantis :-) "A solar panel is only good for charging a golf cart"


I agree but even my electric company is allowed to build up to 10% of the total usage in solar panels, with all the people moving the beach that means more and more solar panels every year!! AND they now allow customers to 'purchase' a solar panel that is then built on the electric companies property and belongs to them but they give you the money back in the form of a rebate every month for 20 years.

As I've said before, we're already consuming all the green energy that's made. If we add more load to the system to charge cars, they'll have to up the coal/gas/oil fired stations outputs. Plus there's the rare Lithium mining for the batteries, which is very harmful to the workers, and it's running out.

What we need is more nuclear stations and more research into fusion etc.


I agree small nuke plants in each neighborhood would involve such small amounts of nuclear material that any accident would be negligible, they could cool them thru well dug ground loop stuff so they just work forever. They've been running them on satellites for a LONG time and for subs and ships for longer than that.

China is doing alot of research on fusion right now but I'm not sure they are dependable enough to share what they are learning without alot of strings attached.
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Message 73329 - Posted: 5 May 2022, 12:41:40 UTC - in response to Message 73327.  

In a few generations, all cars will be electric since fossil fuels can't last forever. Even hydrogen cars require a small high-voltage battery to power an electric motor. Since it takes a couple generations to change the infrastructure of the world, science nerds who care about the future economy are starting now, and hybrids use LESS coal/gas/oil than normal cars. We need to work out the issues such as getting enough lithium fast enough (and recycling the lithium we have), or perhaps eventually using various different battery technologies. Yes, there is a current shortage of lithium due to sudden increased demand, but the world is not running out.

Solar power is currently cheaper than electricity from fossil fuels where I live (there is plenty of Sun). This includes the cost of purchasing and installing the solar panels. When uranium and fossil fuels are used up (in maybe several generations), pumped storage hydropower could store backup power from various renewable energy sources such as solar. Because diversification is good, batteries can also be used.


It's not good to stereotype people who are laying the groundwork for the future as "starry eyed". The future is tricky because there is no clear or simple answer. Likely, there are many good answers that need to be explored. These advanced technologies need time to develop and mature. Heck, some solutions are simple. Some small percentage of human population can heat their homes in the winter burning dead trees found in forests, reducing the risk of forest fires. Ocean rise displacing half a billion people reducing the population capacity of the Earth isn't a practical solution.


I agree with what you said but the "starry eyed" part was meant for people who have no clue what's behind the curtain when they buy a hybrid vehicle 'because it's better for the environment'.

I read most of a story the other day about things like "pumped storage" here:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/15/18226210/energy-renewables-materials-mining-environment-neodymium-copper-lithium-cobalt

I can't find the other article on things like using compressed air pumped into caves, that don't leak, and then taking it back out when they need the power generation.
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Mr P Hucker
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Message 73333 - Posted: 5 May 2022, 13:11:01 UTC - in response to Message 73327.  

In a few generations, all cars will be electric since fossil fuels can't last forever. Even hydrogen cars require a small high-voltage battery to power an electric motor. Since it takes a couple generations to change the infrastructure of the world, science nerds who care about the future economy are starting now, and hybrids use LESS coal/gas/oil than normal cars. We need to work out the issues such as getting enough lithium fast enough (and recycling the lithium we have), or perhaps eventually using various different battery technologies. Yes, there is a current shortage of lithium due to sudden increased demand, but the world is not running out.
The world is running out. To make every car we currently have use electric right now would use two thirds of the lithium up.

Solar power is currently cheaper than electricity from fossil fuels where I live (there is plenty of Sun).
Lucky you, here it's about 5 times more expensive. We just use wind power. It's always bloody windy.

It's not good to stereotype people who are laying the groundwork for the future as "starry eyed".
I just use whatever is cheapest. Cheapest also means most sensible. If it costs twice as much to recycle, then recycling is a bad idea, it means you're using energy or something to do that recycling, hence the cost.

I do agree that fission (and the Allam cycle) are short-term solutions. LFTRs, if we could figure them out, would be a mid-term solution. The only certain long-term solution is renewable energy. If we are lucky, we can eventually figure out how to get self-sustaining tritium supply to power a fusion reactor that doesn't cost more to build and maintain than the value of the electricity it produces.
Fission is very long term, that won't run out for bloody ages.
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Message 73334 - Posted: 5 May 2022, 13:12:38 UTC - in response to Message 73328.  

China is doing alot of research on fusion right now but I'm not sure they are dependable enough to share what they are learning without alot of strings attached.
Considering everything I've bought from China has either fallen apart or is a fifth of what's advertised, no, best to stay clear of those scammers.
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Message 73335 - Posted: 5 May 2022, 13:14:01 UTC - in response to Message 73329.  

I can't find the other article on things like using compressed air pumped into caves, that don't leak, and then taking it back out when they need the power generation.
Hmmm I don't believe that's possible. I doubt a cave would be leak proof at high pressure. And even if you used big scuba tanks, compressors ain't efficient. Well mine isn't. But then it's Chinese.
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Message 73340 - Posted: 6 May 2022, 8:59:22 UTC - in response to Message 73335.  

Well, 'caves' (aka underground cavities) can very well be gas-tight, that's where the natural gas comes from.
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Message 73341 - Posted: 6 May 2022, 9:41:44 UTC - in response to Message 73256.  

The "N-Body" tasks that I have been given take from 5hrs to 15hrs to complete. This is with 16 processors on each task. Here is the thing though: On some N-Body tasks, they will hang and even say (example 10 hrs Elapsed 4270 DAYS remaining) I have noticed that when I reboot my computer this clears right up and 4270 days remaining drops to 9mins remaining.

My workaround on this matter?
I have set up TASK SCHEDULAR and have it running 8 hour reboots everyday until hell freezes over. (if you are from that small town in Michigan, then lets say until electricity ends) At this time I don't think this affects anything from getting WU done.

This is a new computer to me, I just built it, E5 2699v3 (x2) 36 core 72 thread, 128Gb ram 6TB storage, a cheap assed video card, because this ain't a gaming rig and I don't do GPU tasks.
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