Welcome to MilkyWay@home

Separation Application Shutting Down on Tuesday, Jun 20th

Message boards : News : Separation Application Shutting Down on Tuesday, Jun 20th
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 . . . 16 · Next

AuthorMessage
Mr P Hucker
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 5 Jul 11
Posts: 990
Credit: 376,143,149
RAC: 10
Message 75716 - Posted: 19 Jun 2023, 16:32:47 UTC - in response to Message 75714.  
Last modified: 19 Jun 2023, 16:34:49 UTC

because we aren't going to use those results for anything.
Then you shouldn't be creating and sending them out IMHO, just resends of inconclusive results.
They're not going to delete them, I'm sure they'll just get added to the database, so you never know. If they get sent out, I run them.

Looks like the well for separation tasks just went dry.... was 2705 ready to send, now at 0. :(
It's up and down, I've had 0, 30, or 850 tasks given out at once. I'm supposed to get 900 (max they allow per host).

The Nbodys were always a solid 1000 in the queue, but it's going higher. I've seen it up to about 20000. I wonder ii they increased it with seperation going.
The above was double spaced between sentences, I apologise for the forum software ruining my post.
ID: 75716 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Link
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 19 Jul 10
Posts: 585
Credit: 18,894,005
RAC: 4,020
Message 75717 - Posted: 19 Jun 2023, 17:34:03 UTC - in response to Message 75716.  

because we aren't going to use those results for anything.
Then you shouldn't be creating and sending them out IMHO, just resends of inconclusive results.
They're not going to delete them, I'm sure they'll just get added to the database, so you never know. If they get sent out, I run them.
No, they are not "going to use those results for anything", this is pretty clear statement.
ID: 75717 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Mr P Hucker
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 5 Jul 11
Posts: 990
Credit: 376,143,149
RAC: 10
Message 75718 - Posted: 19 Jun 2023, 18:28:56 UTC - in response to Message 75717.  
Last modified: 19 Jun 2023, 18:29:36 UTC

No, they are not "going to use those results for anything", this is pretty clear statement.
Nobody would actually do that, it would be beyond stupid for two reasons:

1) Why hand out stuff and waste people's time and electricity?
2) Since they have the data being returned, why not add it to the stuff already received instead of deliberately deleting it? If I gave you 20 £100 notes, then gave you another two tomorrow, you would put off your purchase by one more day, a purchase you've been waiting a year to make, to buy something bigger.
The above was double spaced between sentences, I apologise for the forum software ruining my post.
ID: 75718 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
.clair.

Send message
Joined: 3 Mar 13
Posts: 84
Credit: 779,527,671
RAC: 4,990
Message 75719 - Posted: 19 Jun 2023, 19:04:54 UTC

If they are realy going to just dump the lot tomorrow , then stop generating work now (last week would have been better) , making useless work is big time stupid .
ID: 75719 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Mr P Hucker
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 5 Jul 11
Posts: 990
Credit: 376,143,149
RAC: 10
Message 75720 - Posted: 19 Jun 2023, 19:16:45 UTC
Last modified: 19 Jun 2023, 19:17:42 UTC

It'll be to please the people doing this for badges instead of science. Hands up who would run a project which handed out credits and badges, but did no work at all, just gave you fictitious sums to do for hours on end? I can understand competing, I do it myself sometimes, but only when there's an actual point to the work! It would be like buying a load of wood, sawing it into nicely measured pieces, then putting the pieces in the skip.
The above was double spaced between sentences, I apologise for the forum software ruining my post.
ID: 75720 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile HRFMguy

Send message
Joined: 12 Nov 21
Posts: 236
Credit: 575,038,236
RAC: 8,058
Message 75721 - Posted: 19 Jun 2023, 19:52:55 UTC

Opps. my bad. it's back up to 7597 now.
ID: 75721 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Cavalary
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 23 Aug 11
Posts: 33
Credit: 11,062,253
RAC: 0
Message 75722 - Posted: 19 Jun 2023, 21:39:30 UTC - in response to Message 75709.  

Yes, we will be turning the entire Separation application off tomorrow. We aren't going to turn off the Wu generator and then let WUs trickle back in for a couple weeks, because we aren't going to use those results for anything.

That's... really messed up. On top of the awfully short shutdown notice, send people work and then not even allow it to be reported back?
ID: 75722 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
marmot
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 12 Dec 15
Posts: 53
Credit: 132,532,396
RAC: 38,960
Message 75723 - Posted: 19 Jun 2023, 21:47:30 UTC

Noticed this was ending late Friday night and so spent from Saturday night till Monday morning trying to complete my 3x Mi25 machine.
Headache after headache until I dropped in bed, exhausted, about noon Monday.

Looks like I'll not make the 100k WuProp hours of Separation work started in Dec 2015.

At least the deadline got me to work on the build. The parts had been here since October.
Didn't seem important anymore after Julie died.

Thanks for giving my Sapphire Vapor-X R9 280X Tri-X OC a great long run.

That high FP64 count, and superb ability to under/over clock made it a perfect match for Milkyway@Home.
ID: 75723 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Falconet

Send message
Joined: 9 Mar 09
Posts: 16
Credit: 193,293
RAC: 1,215
Message 75724 - Posted: 19 Jun 2023, 22:22:20 UTC - in response to Message 75722.  

Yes, we will be turning the entire Separation application off tomorrow. We aren't going to turn off the Wu generator and then let WUs trickle back in for a couple weeks, because we aren't going to use those results for anything.

That's... really messed up. On top of the awfully short shutdown notice, send people work and then not even allow it to be reported back?


It's work that will have no scientific value. The generator should've been turned as soon as results were no longer needed.
ID: 75724 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Mr P Hucker
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 5 Jul 11
Posts: 990
Credit: 376,143,149
RAC: 10
Message 75725 - Posted: 19 Jun 2023, 22:41:15 UTC - in response to Message 75724.  
Last modified: 19 Jun 2023, 22:42:59 UTC

I was quite enjoying 280 amps of 12V GPU power. The other projects just don't use as much electricity. I bought four blade server supplies for this project - two 2600W and two 1300W.
The above was double spaced between sentences, I apologise for the forum software ruining my post.
ID: 75725 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
marmot
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 12 Dec 15
Posts: 53
Credit: 132,532,396
RAC: 38,960
Message 75726 - Posted: 19 Jun 2023, 22:58:52 UTC - in response to Message 75725.  
Last modified: 19 Jun 2023, 23:02:01 UTC

I was quite enjoying 280 amps of 12V GPU power. The other projects just don't use as much electricity. I bought four blade server supplies for this project - two 2600W and two 1300W.


I keep a monthly electricity budget, and there is a thermal budget for the house before cooling overwhelms the electricity budget. So my machines have a 2500W total winter budget.
Every video card I've been able to underclock to achieve a sweet spot with best credit/watt. The 280x, rated at 200W, did it's most efficient returns at about 40-50W.
4 of them, running at the same 200W, could produce 65% more work than a single card.
Although there's the startup price of running 4 cards instead of 1 and the technology shift to host that many cards, but that 8 card per CPU tech is widely available now.
ID: 75726 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Mr P Hucker
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 5 Jul 11
Posts: 990
Credit: 376,143,149
RAC: 10
Message 75727 - Posted: 19 Jun 2023, 23:10:28 UTC - in response to Message 75726.  
Last modified: 19 Jun 2023, 23:11:17 UTC

I keep a monthly electricity budget
Let me stop you there. A budget is simply a way of worrying before the event. I just wait for the bills. If something is too much, I ease off a bit.

And I refuse to save power. All they need to do is stick more wind farms up and it would be dirt cheap anyway.
The above was double spaced between sentences, I apologise for the forum software ruining my post.
ID: 75727 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
.clair.

Send message
Joined: 3 Mar 13
Posts: 84
Credit: 779,527,671
RAC: 4,990
Message 75731 - Posted: 20 Jun 2023, 0:38:28 UTC - in response to Message 75727.  
Last modified: 20 Jun 2023, 0:45:55 UTC

I keep a monthly electricity budget
Let me stop you there. A budget is simply a way of worrying before the event. I just wait for the bills. If something is too much, I ease off a bit.

And I refuse to save power. All they need to do is stick more wind farms up and it would be dirt cheap anyway.

Cheap for who ?! , once they have paid for building the wind turdbines they would just carp on about how enviromentaly friendly they (their increased profits) are .
Just like when the first nuke power plant was built `Calder Hall` they sed "electricity will be so cheap" blaa blaa what a load of moo poo that turned out to be [I live just ten miles up the coast from it , decommissioned now .

ps - turdbines are much like woodbines but only produce smoke when lit by lightning , go look for the video , `wind turbine catches fire after lightning strike`
ID: 75731 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Mr P Hucker
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 5 Jul 11
Posts: 990
Credit: 376,143,149
RAC: 10
Message 75733 - Posted: 20 Jun 2023, 0:51:13 UTC - in response to Message 75731.  

[Cheap for who ?! , once they have paid for building the wind turdbines they would just carp on about how enviromentaly friendly they (their increased profits) are .
It's called competition. They'd sell it cheaper because they can. 4p a unit as opposed to 40p a unit average.

Just like when the first nuke power plant was built `Calder Hall` they sed "electricity will be so cheap" blaa blaa what a load of moo poo that turned out to be [I live just ten miles up the coast from it , decommissioned now .
Well clearly those are for making weapons, everyone knows that. Government subsidises them, makes them look cheap, then they can make nukes.

ps - turdbines are much like woodbines but only produce smoke when lit by lightning , go look for the video , `wind turbine catches fire after lightning strike`
I've seen some. It doesn't happen often. But it doesn't have the same effect as a nu killer (Merkin pronounciation) power station blowing up.
The above was double spaced between sentences, I apologise for the forum software ruining my post.
ID: 75733 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile mikey
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 8 May 09
Posts: 3317
Credit: 520,222,552
RAC: 22,432
Message 75744 - Posted: 20 Jun 2023, 10:51:33 UTC - in response to Message 75674.  

And what I'm assuming is "a lot" of electricity required to power the GPUs to do work that will have no scientific value.
Only 2 more days but still very wasteful.


But still probably ALOT less wasteful than all those CEO's etc flying to Switzerland on their private jets to attend a conference on 'saving energy'.
ID: 75744 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile mikey
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 8 May 09
Posts: 3317
Credit: 520,222,552
RAC: 22,432
Message 75745 - Posted: 20 Jun 2023, 10:54:20 UTC - in response to Message 75669.  

I know it's just a few more days but wouldn't it make sense to turn it off now? Seems wasteful.
Very wasteful, keeps GPUs away from other projects, which actually need them and even CPUs away from nBody (and/or other projects). People who want to reach some credit goals can do it with nBody, just at a slower rate. Setting Milkyway to NNT. .


Not true as they are different apps and wuprop tracks your hours spent by the app not the project. Now I totally agree that most people have never heard of let alone run wuprop but for those that do setting and sticking to a deadline is much better.
ID: 75745 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile HRFMguy

Send message
Joined: 12 Nov 21
Posts: 236
Credit: 575,038,236
RAC: 8,058
Message 75746 - Posted: 20 Jun 2023, 13:10:57 UTC - in response to Message 75744.  

And what I'm assuming is "a lot" of electricity required to power the GPUs to do work that will have no scientific value.
Only 2 more days but still very wasteful.


But still probably ALOT less wasteful than all those CEO's etc flying to Switzerland on their private jets to attend a conference on 'saving energy'.
Exactly!
ID: 75746 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Link
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 19 Jul 10
Posts: 585
Credit: 18,894,005
RAC: 4,020
Message 75750 - Posted: 20 Jun 2023, 15:04:17 UTC - in response to Message 75745.  
Last modified: 20 Jun 2023, 15:11:33 UTC

I know it's just a few more days but wouldn't it make sense to turn it off now? Seems wasteful.
Very wasteful, keeps GPUs away from other projects, which actually need them and even CPUs away from nBody (and/or other projects). People who want to reach some credit goals can do it with nBody, just at a slower rate. Setting Milkyway to NNT. .


Not true as they are different apps and wuprop tracks your hours spent by the app not the project. Now I totally agree that most people have never heard of let alone run wuprop but for those that do setting and sticking to a deadline is much better.
Hence I wrote credit goals.

There are currently 13396 active Milkyway members and 7688 active WUprop members, I'd be highly surprised if more than 10-15% of the active Milkyway members run WUprop and probably just a small fraction of them will be hunting some WUprop milestones in those few days. It's insane to keep computing ressources of over 13k users away from useful work either on other projects or nBody just because few people might be hunting some badges of a monitoring project, which even isn't displaying the results properly (half of the results page on WUprop is broken/empty, I had to repeatedly report missing information from my devices on that page, most poeople don't so you can imagine how much is missing). And I don't think that's the reason, why separation is still running.

The shutdown should have been announced a lot earlier, it's not like they couldn't see it coming. And even if not, there are better ways to finish fast (stop work generators, abort all not started WUs on clients) than the way they have choosen. There's no need for a specific deadline, if they announced two months ago "we have work for 1.5-2.5 months left" it would have been completely enough and they could turn off the work generators whenever they had all results they need.
ID: 75750 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
San-Fernando-Valley

Send message
Joined: 13 Apr 17
Posts: 256
Credit: 604,411,638
RAC: 0
Message 75751 - Posted: 20 Jun 2023, 15:09:08 UTC - in response to Message 75746.  

And what I'm assuming is "a lot" of electricity required to power the GPUs to do work that will have no scientific value.
Only 2 more days but still very wasteful.


But still probably ALOT less wasteful than all those CEO's etc flying to Switzerland on their private jets to attend a conference on 'saving energy'.
Exactly!


yes, exactly !

But walking to Switzerland is a bit tedious, but in deed saving energy.

I know, I know, there is always the live conference option ...

This thread is getting to be fun to follow.

A beer on me to all of the posters.

cheers S-F-V
ID: 75751 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Angela J. Boonyakieat

Send message
Joined: 11 May 20
Posts: 13
Credit: 500,926,027
RAC: 132,741
Message 75752 - Posted: 20 Jun 2023, 15:52:33 UTC - in response to Message 75751.  

I sure hope that they pay out what we have left in the computers, even if they don’t need the information. That, in my opinion is the right way to do it. Shut off new work and pay out what is left when it comes in. Angie
ID: 75752 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 . . . 16 · Next

Message boards : News : Separation Application Shutting Down on Tuesday, Jun 20th

©2024 Astroinformatics Group