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ProfileSorceress
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Message 9157 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 23:09:03 UTC - in response to Message 9156.  
Last modified: 25 Jan 2009, 23:15:12 UTC

Thank you for the website, Campaign For Liberty. I will join tonight. While I was impressed with Ron Paul, my choice was Mike Huckabe. Keep the faith! Obama is the trojan horse set to destroy our country and take us straight in to socialism. The lines are being drawn! War is coming!


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Message 9158 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 23:18:31 UTC - in response to Message 9152.  
Last modified: 25 Jan 2009, 23:20:48 UTC


I have seen people who have been in this project for 5 months with 5 million credits! Or someone we all know that has been here since 08/08 with 1.2 million. Somehow this doesn't seem 'kosher' in any way....


I feel that each WU should have a fair credit value based upon the work processed no matter how long it takes to process. If your machines are fastert than mine you will get more credit than me. But, I also feel that any app used to speed up the process should be made available to all of us or it cant be used for an unfair advantage. Just like someone who cuts inline ahead of you should be denied. It simply a matter of courtesy. Everyone in a project should work for the good of the project, not for just one person. Just my $0.02


Equal credit for equal work. Fair enough.

However, if I go out and spend thousands of dollars on compilers to optimize and spend the energy and time to optimize. Where is the "unfair"ness in that?

If someone in business can do a job quicker better and more efficient than someone else, should get paid the same for the job as someone who takes twice as long to do the same job?

Nobody is cutting in front of anybody here. It is just that some people can and do, some people cant and wish, and some cant and complain.
Don't be the latter, be the first, or at least the 2nd.

AND why does it not seem right that someone can be with a project for only 1 month and have over 1 million credit.. maybe JUST maybe they have more hosts than you do. 5 months = 5 million credits... SO WHAT! 1 month 5 million credits - SO WHAT. 1 day 1 million credits... SO WHAT - There are people out there that could and do pull off a million a day. Check E@H - my farm pales in comparison. Some of them boys out there can really put up the work! We have a couple of people on our team that do double what I can do.
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Message 9159 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 23:22:54 UTC - in response to Message 9157.  

Thank you for the website, Campaign For Liberty. I will join tonight. While I was impressed with Ron Paul, my choice was Mike Huckabe. Keep the faith! Obama is the trojan horse set to destroy our country and take us straight in to socialism. The lines are being drawn! War is coming!



Ron Paul.. Always tells it like it is - and is not afraid of what people say about him. One of the few true American Patriots! IMO.

Thank you

Also, check out www.endthefed.us

.
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Message 9160 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 23:33:06 UTC - in response to Message 9155.  

*No messages intended to annoy or antagonize other people, or to hijack a thread.
*No messages that are deliberately hostile or insulting.

I just wanted to post the 'rules' for these forums. Some of us have gone way past the point of civility. One of my favorite cliche's is 'If you dont like the show, don't let the door hit you on the way out'. What I have been reading is, the credit whores are angry because they aren't going to be able to rape the project like they want to any more so they are trying to 'burn down the house' for the rest of us. I have seen people who have been in this project for 5 months with 5 million credits! Or someone we all know that has been here since 08/08 with 1.2 million. Somehow this doesn't seem 'kosher' in any way.
IMHO their 'whinning' falls on deft ears here. I have been running the stock app since day one and have had no complaints. Credit awards have been right in line with most of the others top projects as far as my machines are concerned. Once a stable opti app is available for general use I will use it.

I feel that each WU should have a fair credit value based upon the work processed no matter how long it takes to process. If your machines are fastert than mine you will get more credit than me. But, I also feel that any app used to speed up the process should be made available to all of us or it cant be used for an unfair advantage. Just like someone who cuts inline ahead of you should be denied. It simply a matter of courtesy. Everyone in a project should work for the good of the project, not for just one person. Just my $0.02



We've survived this far, I think we can make it :D

If this last application update does what I think it should, the application should be stable for awhile and i'll be able to work on the automatic error checking, which will probably make a few people who don't like frequent updates a bit happier.





I take offense to this posts usage of the terms "whore" and "rape". I understand what you are trying to say; but I dont think those terms are needed and could have been worded better, especially where you start off your post listing the "rules".

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Message 9163 - Posted: 25 Jan 2009, 23:55:12 UTC - in response to Message 9127.  
Last modified: 26 Jan 2009, 0:03:01 UTC

Maybe it is time for a hardware/software donation such as is in SETI. This is a doable thing if anyone is interested. What is the concencuss on this? I'm sure the project would appereciate it.

Oops! See above.

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ProfileKWSN imcrazynow
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Message 9164 - Posted: 26 Jan 2009, 0:01:21 UTC - in response to Message 9127.  



3. a server for test applications -- this is more of a money issue. Right now we're nearing the end of the grant that's currently been supporting milkyway, so we're a little low on funds. We have put in a few grant applications to NSF, so if any of these are accepted then we'll have more money for adding hardware.

4. more test hardware -- again a money issue. We need a machine or machines that we can put different verisons of osx/linux/windows on so we can do more in-house testing before releasing applications to the wild. Again this probably wont happen until the next round of funding, which probably wont be until this coming fall.

So i'd have to say that the ETA for going beta would be sometime this fall. However, after we get last of the bugs fixed in the application and automatic error checking done, I'd say things will be a lot more stable around here.


Maybe it is time for a hardware/software donation such as is in SETI. This is a doable thing if anyone is interested. What is the concencuss on this? I'm sure the project would appereciate it.


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Message 9195 - Posted: 26 Jan 2009, 5:51:35 UTC

Congrats to Crunch3r! He is SETI's user of the day. A project he loves so much. :P
me@rescam.org
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Message 9207 - Posted: 26 Jan 2009, 15:09:07 UTC

So where can a guy get a decent amount of credit?

I started here with the intent of moving from SETI due to the CUDA debacle and a severe drop in RAC (4K). I get here and start moving boxes as SETI runs dry.....BAM... invalidate the app and cut credits.

I guess nobody wants my 20K RAC of crunching power. Oh well, off to search for a new home I guess.


CONGRATS CRUNCH3R!!!!!!!
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Message 9209 - Posted: 26 Jan 2009, 17:02:28 UTC

We all love to get more credits and be competitive, but how competitive is it if once you find an app that gives you the high creds, nobody does anything to try and catch you or slow you down? Surely that is part of being competitive - you have to keep working at it, you can't just set it up, sit back, and wait.

I've started putting in some work to get higher creds across a number of projects, after having a few days of having it easy here. I got used to having a higher RAC than I had been used to, and have now got the motivation to do something about it.

If having a higher RAC means I have to keep seeking newer, more creative ways to either create or find apps that will increase my throughput on the projects I work on, then surely reducing the creds to encourage that is a good thing? Or am I missing something in the whole scientific debate here?
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Message 9210 - Posted: 26 Jan 2009, 17:05:35 UTC

BTW, my post above doesn't mean I think capping the maximum creds per core is good. In fact, if it means that fast clients using the stock app are also penalised then it is very bad. It just means I think the cap should be done in a way that encourages people to develop better and faster apps (not with a maximum per core necessarily, or why would we want to help create faster apps?).
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Message 9211 - Posted: 26 Jan 2009, 17:41:41 UTC

The point is:

I monitor how well my vegetable garden is doing by each project's RAC. SETI kicked about 4K of my 21K, so, I went looking. It took a while to figure out that it was the CUDA mess and not a failure in one or more of my boxes that was causing it.


Yes I am one of the "credit hounds" because I am always looking for a way to boost my production. If that is an opti-app, an O/C, another box, or whatever it takes. I will probably put a celeron on MW just to keep my acct. active, but at these low credit levels, the quads will have to stay where they are for now. I want to make 1 meg on Rosetta, but at 9 credits or less per WU, its gonna take a long time. Same with MW. Apparently MW has done enough preliminary research that extensive crunching power is no longer required.

Whoever said that the project which wants volunteers will give the most credits has it pretty well right. My power will go there, and the pocket calculators will stay on the others. Come to think of it, it's kinda like the working world -- do I wanna flip burgers at McD's @ minimum wage or work for GM @ $50.00 per hour? I think I will build chebys.......
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Message 9226 - Posted: 26 Jan 2009, 20:52:48 UTC - in response to Message 9143.  



Sorry... it's like the sound of old refrigerator... All people heard it but don't gave any attemption...

:)



You only notice that sound when it stops.

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Message 9228 - Posted: 26 Jan 2009, 20:55:31 UTC - in response to Message 9149.  

And the credit tittles are for...:)

Credit titties? Do I get more with an optimized app?

Do they come in pairs?

If you have a dual core machine. You get 2 pairs for a quad. If you're using a single hyper-threaded core it can look a bit weird.


I've got one quad, two old athlons a northwood and a long piece of ethernet cable. I walk with a limp.

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Message 9247 - Posted: 27 Jan 2009, 1:59:47 UTC - in response to Message 9228.  

And the credit tittles are for...:)

Credit titties? Do I get more with an optimized app?

Do they come in pairs?

If you have a dual core machine. You get 2 pairs for a quad. If you're using a single hyper-threaded core it can look a bit weird.

I've got one quad, two old athlons a northwood and a long piece of ethernet cable. I walk with a limp.

I hadn't noticed.
me@rescam.org
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Message 9318 - Posted: 28 Jan 2009, 22:29:36 UTC

How can credit be too low, but too high at the same time? That makes no sense. Instead of adjusting credits now raise the workload ~5x to give room for the optimized applications to speed it back up. And adjust for that amount. The per hour should be eliminated, since there are so many multi-core processors that can speed through numerous wu's.
Doesn't expecting the unexpected make the unexpected the expected?
If it makes sense, DON'T do it.
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Message 9320 - Posted: 28 Jan 2009, 23:01:08 UTC - in response to Message 9318.  

How can credit be too low, but too high at the same time? That makes no sense. Instead of adjusting credits now raise the workload ~5x to give room for the optimized applications to speed it back up. And adjust for that amount. The per hour should be eliminated, since there are so many multi-core processors that can speed through numerous wu's.


I don't think we'll get much more benefit from increasing the integral size, but I can ask Nate about it to see if it would be beneficial. However, stripes 20 and 21 are using multiple streams, which should increase the calculation time by a bit.

I'll have to talk to the astronomers about making the workunits more complex. But I think they're pretty happy with what we're calculating at the moment and want to get a bunch of results with that before we go around changing more things.
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Message 9331 - Posted: 29 Jan 2009, 1:33:12 UTC - in response to Message 9320.  

Something in the effect of adding multiple wu's together would do the same. It won't be long before many users have an app that does them under 10 min again.
Doesn't expecting the unexpected make the unexpected the expected?
If it makes sense, DON'T do it.
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Message 9347 - Posted: 29 Jan 2009, 11:38:46 UTC

Not sure if this is right or not but I am trying to figure out the difference in credit allotted on MW and Einstein@home. I've taken the last 6 wu's from each project and added up the times/sec then divided by 3600. I then divided the resultant time by the number of credit awarded. I was just looking to get a general idea as to whether or not things are about even. I am using the stock client on both projects. Both have varying lengths of wu's so I thought on an average it should even out. Is my math correct?

MW - total computer secs = 18,662.56
total credit granted = 164.30

E@H - total computer secs = 176,565.41
total credit granted = 760.42

Calculation of credits per hour?


MW: ** 6 wu's @18,662.56/3600=5.18
5.18/164.30=0.03 or 164.30/5.18=31.72

E@H ** 6 wu's @176,565.41/3600=49.05
49.05/760.42=0.06 or 760.42/49.05=15.50

So does this mean that MW is awarding double credits as opposed to E@H? or is it the other way around?

My math skills are slipping and not sure which way they shoudl be looked at.

Arion
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Message 9349 - Posted: 29 Jan 2009, 11:48:49 UTC

Arion.

Based on your numbers:

MW - 31.72 credits / hour.
EH - 15.50 credits / hour.

However, remember DA wants Seti to be the standard. So how does MW compare to Seti stock, or how does Einstein stock compare to Seti stock? It is possible Einstein is a lower paying project than Seti.

Never surrender and never give up. In the darkest hour there is always hope.

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Message 9350 - Posted: 29 Jan 2009, 13:06:38 UTC

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