Welcome to MilkyWay@home

3rd.in - optimized apps

Message boards : Number crunching : 3rd.in - optimized apps
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 . . . 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 . . . 40 · Next

AuthorMessage
Cluster Physik

Send message
Joined: 26 Jul 08
Posts: 627
Credit: 94,940,203
RAC: 0
Message 24507 - Posted: 7 Jun 2009, 20:46:13 UTC - in response to Message 24502.  
Last modified: 7 Jun 2009, 20:48:08 UTC

any idea when the ATI GPU app will be released for everyone?

Everyone can download it now. One only needs a compatible GPU (HD3800/4700/4800 series) an a Windows OS.
Or what do you mean?
ID: 24507 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive
Profile SubaruSVX

Send message
Joined: 7 Feb 09
Posts: 11
Credit: 5,989,391
RAC: 0
Message 24524 - Posted: 8 Jun 2009, 0:55:54 UTC - in response to Message 24507.  

any idea when the ATI GPU app will be released for everyone?

Everyone can download it now. One only needs a compatible GPU (HD3800/4700/4800 series) an a Windows OS.
Or what do you mean?

well like right now it is really complicated and i can't find the files i have to edit and stuff, so when is it going to be released in the sense that it will just happen.
ID: 24524 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive
Profile arkayn
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Feb 09
Posts: 999
Credit: 74,932,619
RAC: 0
Message 24526 - Posted: 8 Jun 2009, 1:31:02 UTC

That will happen after DA gets the ball rolling on BOINC Manager 6.10.x which should have support for ATI GPU's. Of course since they have not even got 6.6.x running good yet, that could be quite a while.
ID: 24526 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive
Profile GalaxyIce
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 6 Apr 08
Posts: 2018
Credit: 100,142,856
RAC: 0
Message 24542 - Posted: 8 Jun 2009, 6:59:42 UTC - in response to Message 24524.  


well like right now it is really complicated and i can't find the files i have to edit and stuff, so when is it going to be released in the sense that it will just happen.

That will happen after DA gets the ball rolling on BOINC Manager 6.10.x which should have support for ATI GPU's.

I appreciate your point Robert. For example, with GPUGRID all you have to do is have a nVidia card installed with drivers and BOINC manager will detect that you have the card and download and process the WUs for you automatically.

With the ATI 'bolt-on' here you have to make a number of decisions and do a number of things to get ATI crunching just now. For example, you have to choose between the Windows and Linux optimized apps. For Windows you have to select a driver for the ATI card that works with the apps. You have to decide on which app to use with CPU-Z as your guide, and decide where in your BOINC folders to copy the files. There is also an xml file to edit with your choices.

Decisions, decisions and choices which, as you say, can be quite complicated for some. But quite frankly that's the way it is; there isn't a less complicated or better way right now with the authors of the apps and others giving welcomed assistance.

Let's hope that using ATI GPUs in MilkyWay_GPU is less complicated.


ID: 24542 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive
Profile [P3D] Crashtest

Send message
Joined: 8 Jan 09
Posts: 58
Credit: 53,702,108
RAC: 21,692
Message 24545 - Posted: 8 Jun 2009, 8:40:42 UTC - in response to Message 24542.  

For nvidia you need a "recent" driver and hardware - ATI too

Gipsel could build the app using the current CAL SDK, so it would work on Catalyst 9.2 or newer without any file copy/paste, but when it wouldnt work on Catalyst 9.1 or older or it could work with file copy/paste

The "normal" nvidia-apps arent CPU-optimized - ATI apps are CPU-optimized but theres a basic version only using SSE to work with old Athlons / K7 /x86

There are CPU-optimized apps for CUDA on S@H too - with the "same" problem : SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSSE41 .... ?!?

This basic "problem" ,if it is one, wont change on MW_GPU because of BOINC and the detection of GPUs - only hardcoded CUDA ! So we ATI-USER will have to copy the new Gipsel-App to the project folder like we have to do on MW.


ATI GPU support was planed for BOINC 6.4.X, later for 6.6.X, later for 6.8.X and is now planed for 6.10.X ! But there are 3 main problems:

1. nVIDIA doesnt like the performance of the 48xx ATI-GPUs on S@H, MW (yes theres a "working" S@H ATI app (alpha) since December 2008)
2. ATI/AMD didnt provide enough support (Cards, Documentation, Money) like nVIDIA did
3. CUDA is hardcoded inside BOINC, so they have to change many codelines to add a 3rd working path (1st CPU, 2nd CUDA)

Maybe they (BERKELEY) will stop the CAL and CUDA support and move to OpenCL as it was planed for 6.10.x - this would be easier than supporting 3 different APIs (CAL, CUDA & OpenCL) and more hardware could BOINC (ATI, nVIDIA, Intel, S3 ....) and it would be easier for the projects - only to build one single app because OpenCL could run on all "new" GPUs (DX10 or newer) or on CPU.
ID: 24545 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive
Profile Crunch3r
Volunteer developer
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 17 Feb 08
Posts: 363
Credit: 258,227,990
RAC: 0
Message 24551 - Posted: 8 Jun 2009, 10:22:43 UTC - in response to Message 24545.  

For nvidia you need a "recent" driver and hardware - ATI too

Gipsel could build the app using the current CAL SDK, so it would work on Catalyst 9.2 or newer without any file copy/paste, but when it wouldnt work on Catalyst 9.1 or older or it could work with file copy/paste

The "normal" nvidia-apps arent CPU-optimized - ATI apps are CPU-optimized but theres a basic version only using SSE to work with old Athlons / K7 /x86


Really ? I'd like to see you running an sse app on an old Athlon / K7 ....


There are CPU-optimized apps for CUDA on S@H too - with the "same" problem : SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSSE41 .... ?!?


No. That has nothing to do with cuda... the "optimized" part is the fall back mode if the cuda app crashes...


This basic "problem" ,if it is one, wont change on MW_GPU because of BOINC and the detection of GPUs - only hardcoded CUDA ! So we ATI-USER will have to copy the new Gipsel-App to the project folder like we have to do on MW.


Hardcoded Cuda ? Hmmm...


ATI GPU support was planed for BOINC 6.4.X, later for 6.6.X, later for 6.8.X and is now planed for 6.10.X ! But there are 3 main problems:


Blame DA. Eye candy is more important than that...


1. nVIDIA doesnt like the performance of the 48xx ATI-GPUs on S@H, MW


BS! NVIDIA was talking to ATI to try and get them to use CUDA too but obviously ATI declined in favour of the mess called CAL stream SDK


(yes theres a "working" S@H ATI app (alpha) since December 2008)

Where ? Never seen nor heard of it... Proof ?


2. ATI/AMD didnt provide enough support (Cards, Documentation, Money) like nVIDIA did


ATI/AMD didn't offer ANY support at all. All they did was to promiss a card that , well never got there AFAIK...


3. CUDA is hardcoded inside BOINC, so they have to change many codelines to add a 3rd working path (1st CPU, 2nd CUDA)


Hardcoded ... yeah... changing codelines ? How 'bout adding some ;)



Join Support science! Joinc Team BOINC United now!
ID: 24551 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive
Cluster Physik

Send message
Joined: 26 Jul 08
Posts: 627
Credit: 94,940,203
RAC: 0
Message 24559 - Posted: 8 Jun 2009, 12:59:14 UTC - in response to Message 24551.  

Really ? I'd like to see you running an sse app on an old Athlon / K7 ....

That's why there exists an ATI app which does not use any SSE, only old fashioned x86/x87 code. So if someone wants to run it on an old classic Athlon (older than AthlonXP, which supports SSE already) with an AGP HD3850, he can do it ;)

(yes theres a "working" S@H ATI app (alpha) since December 2008)

Where ? Never seen nor heard of it... Proof ?

I would be interested in it, too. AFAIK Raistmer just started quite recently to work on it. If there would exist something already, it could save him quite a lot of work.
ID: 24559 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive
Profile [P3D] Crashtest

Send message
Joined: 8 Jan 09
Posts: 58
Credit: 53,702,108
RAC: 21,692
Message 24567 - Posted: 8 Jun 2009, 14:24:55 UTC - in response to Message 24551.  

Why should ATI use a "enemy" API if they got there own and CAL was first !

"No. That has nothing to do with cuda... the "optimized" part is the fall back mode if the cuda app crashes..."

S@H only use about 30-70% of the nVIDIA GPUs for calc, rest is calced on CPU (with SSE, SSE2 .....) and the org. APPs arent the best !

Even with the GPUs, S@H could not use then "good" enough - a PC with 8 nVIDIA GPUs got only a rac of 58,126.16 - I could get a higher rac if I only use 2 normal ATI 4850 in a small PC on MW ( MW-RAC x 0,75 > S@H-RAC )

Using 4 ATI 4870x2 you could get a RAC ( MW-RAC x 0,75 ) of 250000 or more if you get enough WUs.


inside the boinc src (http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/browser/trunk/boinc/lib/coproc.cpp) as only one example, there's everything CUDA-coded, to use CUDA:

A good code would be COPROC_GPU incl. an export "supporting double prec." but theres only COPROC_CUDA and CUDA-fx only - and the project apps only use COPROC_CUDA and not COPROC_GPU!

Inside COPROC_GPU could be a CUDA and a CAL-Part !


To add ATI-CAL and OpenCL support, they had to rewrite most parts of the entire sourcecode (Scheduler, Memory-Management, FS) and the project-apps too.

If they replace CUDA with OpenCL, they only had to do this once ! (and not 3 or more times)

I'm sure they will kick CUDA in Q4/09 - Q1/10 if OpenCL-drivers are stable (SDKs are out from both nVIDIA and ATI, Intel will follow)

OpenCL pro:
could/should/will work on ATI, nVIDIA, Intel, S3, etc GPUs; x86, arm, Sparc CPUs
Windows, Linux, ect OS

OpenCL contra:
not jet ready - will change with CAL SDK 1.5 and new CUDA-SDK because both will use OpenCL as top layer api and the "old" CAL/CUDA below it



The lack of info's reported by boinc will/could be a problem for MW_GPU too, because BOINC didnt send informations about SP or DP to the projects - MW_GPU will use a lot of DP !

THE S@HCAL App isnt public and with DA it wont be until boinc 6.10.x or later; they got some ATI cards !
ID: 24567 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive
Profile Crunch3r
Volunteer developer
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 17 Feb 08
Posts: 363
Credit: 258,227,990
RAC: 0
Message 24569 - Posted: 8 Jun 2009, 14:25:41 UTC - in response to Message 24559.  
Last modified: 8 Jun 2009, 14:26:14 UTC

Really ? I'd like to see you running an sse app on an old Athlon / K7 ....

That's why there exists an ATI app which does not use any SSE, only old fashioned x86/x87 code. So if someone wants to run it on an old classic Athlon (older than AthlonXP, which supports SSE already) with an AGP HD3850, he can do it ;)


Now that would work :p

(yes theres a "working" S@H ATI app (alpha) since December 2008)

Where ? Never seen nor heard of it... Proof ?

I would be interested in it, too. AFAIK Raistmer just started quite recently to work on it. If there would exist something already, it could save him quite a lot of work.


The last thing i've heard from Eric was that we're free to port SETI MB CUDA to ATI CAL if we want to... He didn't mention an ATI seti app at all... so it seems to me the that "borg17@gmx.net" has access to informations that not even Eric Korpela (the guy who's in charge at the SETI project) has...

So where is that ATI seti app and where did that info come from ?

Join Support science! Joinc Team BOINC United now!
ID: 24569 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive
Profile [P3D] Crashtest

Send message
Joined: 8 Jan 09
Posts: 58
Credit: 53,702,108
RAC: 21,692
Message 24574 - Posted: 8 Jun 2009, 15:06:46 UTC - in response to Message 24569.  
Last modified: 8 Jun 2009, 15:08:37 UTC

I heard of only one single build - thats nothing comp. to the hundrets of CUDA-builds before public. But the work stopped before it realy started. Its only a simple alpha test of running S@H on CAL - no optimizations (run the CPU-WUs, not the larger CUDA-WUs) as a kind of tech. demo.


If some here is porting S@H to support CAL that will be great - I would test it on all my machines.
ID: 24574 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive
Profile Crunch3r
Volunteer developer
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 17 Feb 08
Posts: 363
Credit: 258,227,990
RAC: 0
Message 24581 - Posted: 8 Jun 2009, 15:44:44 UTC - in response to Message 24574.  

I heard of only one single build - thats nothing comp. to the hundrets of CUDA-builds before public.


Again, where did you hear that ?


But the work stopped before it realy started. Its only a simple alpha test of running S@H on CAL - no optimizations


We're not interested in optimizations. The point is, even if it's only a tech demo, it could be of great help.



(run the CPU-WUs, not the larger CUDA-WUs)


There's no such thing as a CPU or GPU WU. They're all the same.



If some here is porting S@H to support CAL that will be great - I would test it on all my machines.


If you would finally decide to show up the info requested on where you got that info from, we might be able to contact that person...

However, i got a gut feeling that there's nothing to it as you just made up that story.

Please prove me wrong ;)


Join Support science! Joinc Team BOINC United now!
ID: 24581 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive
Profile Paul D. Buck

Send message
Joined: 12 Apr 08
Posts: 621
Credit: 161,934,067
RAC: 0
Message 24780 - Posted: 10 Jun 2009, 6:38:38 UTC - in response to Message 24545.  

3. CUDA is hardcoded inside BOINC, so they have to change many codelines to add a 3rd working path (1st CPU, 2nd CUDA)

Fourth ...

1) CPU
2) NCI (CPU)
3) CUDA
4) ATI
5) OpenCL
6 to n) Larabee, etc.

Snow Leopard is scheduled for September and that will natively support OpenCL (at least that is the plan) and likely CUDA for Nvidia cards...

Sadly the approach seems to be that they will add class specific code for each new class rather than to simplify life and use a more generic approach ... for example there still is no rational explanation as to why you cannot download and cache NCI work other than DA does not want to allow that ... but that also means that if the project is off-line when you complete your last NCI task you are then dead in the water ... in that QCN is a monitoring project it will be very bad if people are out of task when the tremor actually hits because of this ...
ID: 24780 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive
Profile [P3D] Crashtest

Send message
Joined: 8 Jan 09
Posts: 58
Credit: 53,702,108
RAC: 21,692
Message 24788 - Posted: 10 Jun 2009, 10:30:07 UTC - in response to Message 24780.  

My fault - S@Hcal wasnt a S@H / Boinc "project" it was an ATI and its closed, because ATI is working hard on OpenCL for the mass and BOINC got the plan to support OpenCL soon

Andrew Dodd wrote:

Right now we’re focusing all of our efforts into supporting OpenCL, so you will not see CAL based acceleration for Seti@Home.

I know it’s not the answer you wanted to hear, but we really think getting a solid OpenCL drivers is our number 1 goal



So DA / Berkeley should change their plan:

3) CUDA
4) ATI
5) OpenCL
6 to n) Larabee, etc.

could/should be shrinked to 3) OpenCL because

nVIDIA: OpenCL on top of CUDA
ATI: OpenCL on top of CAL/Brook+
Fruit: OpenCL native
Linux: OpenCL native
Intel Larabee : OpenCL native / software emul
....

so all we need is OpenCL and a "recent" driver and not 3 to n fu**ing systems, apps ect
ID: 24788 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive
Profile (_KoDAk_)

Send message
Joined: 13 Jul 08
Posts: 33
Credit: 21,285,010
RAC: 0
Message 25177 - Posted: 12 Jun 2009, 20:40:03 UTC

which driver to use on win 7x64 for GPU HD4850 ?
ID: 25177 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive
Profile GalaxyIce
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 6 Apr 08
Posts: 2018
Credit: 100,142,856
RAC: 0
Message 25182 - Posted: 12 Jun 2009, 22:05:28 UTC - in response to Message 25177.  

which driver to use on win 7x64 for GPU HD4850 ?

You have a choice of Catalyst 8.1 or 9.1, or for 9.2 ad above see this post.

Generally it's always best to use the higher version numbers, but I've never had any luck with the drivers above 8.1, so I use 8.1 since it works for me.

Nice to see another Ukrainian on this forum ;)


ID: 25182 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive
jedirock
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 8 Nov 08
Posts: 178
Credit: 6,140,854
RAC: 0
Message 25217 - Posted: 13 Jun 2009, 1:23:06 UTC - in response to Message 25182.  

which driver to use on win 7x64 for GPU HD4850 ?

You have a choice of Catalyst 8.1 or 9.1, or for 9.2 ad above see this post.

Generally it's always best to use the higher version numbers, but I've never had any luck with the drivers above 8.1, so I use 8.1 since it works for me.

Nice to see another Ukrainian on this forum ;)

You mean 8.12? I didn't think crunching was supported on 8.11 or earlier.
ID: 25217 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive
Profile KWSN imcrazynow
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 22 Nov 08
Posts: 136
Credit: 319,414,799
RAC: 0
Message 25222 - Posted: 13 Jun 2009, 2:28:48 UTC
Last modified: 13 Jun 2009, 2:29:32 UTC

8.12 is later than 8.11.:-)
I use 8.12 on both of my quads with 4870's under XP Pro x64 and 0.19f.

4870 GPU
4870 GPU
ID: 25222 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive
Profile GalaxyIce
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 6 Apr 08
Posts: 2018
Credit: 100,142,856
RAC: 0
Message 25229 - Posted: 13 Jun 2009, 6:07:14 UTC - in response to Message 25217.  
Last modified: 13 Jun 2009, 6:07:30 UTC

which driver to use on win 7x64 for GPU HD4850 ?

You have a choice of Catalyst 8.1 or 9.1, or for 9.2 ad above see this post.

Generally it's always best to use the higher version numbers, but I've never had any luck with the drivers above 8.1, so I use 8.1 since it works for me.

Nice to see another Ukrainian on this forum ;)

You mean 8.12? I didn't think crunching was supported on 8.11 or earlier.

Yea I did, just checking if you read zslip - it's all there ;)

ID: 25229 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive
Profile (_KoDAk_)

Send message
Joined: 13 Jul 08
Posts: 33
Credit: 21,285,010
RAC: 0
Message 25246 - Posted: 13 Jun 2009, 12:28:06 UTC

how to put the old driver
in 7 have 8.612 driver ((((
ID: 25246 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive
Profile GalaxyIce
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 6 Apr 08
Posts: 2018
Credit: 100,142,856
RAC: 0
Message 25288 - Posted: 13 Jun 2009, 19:02:03 UTC - in response to Message 25246.  
Last modified: 13 Jun 2009, 19:03:38 UTC

how to put the old driver
in 7 have 8.612 driver ((((

Go to the official Ati/AMD site http://ati.amd.com/support/driver.html, and click on your OS, eg, 'Profesional/Home' under 'Windows XP'. Then select 'Radeon', then select 'Radeon HD 4800 Series', then click on Go. Click on 'Previous Drivers and Software' at the bottom. Select the Catalyst driver you want and then click on 'Display Driver'.

Uninstall your current driver and install the driver that you download from http://ati.amd.com/support/driver.html

ID: 25288 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive
Previous · 1 . . . 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 . . . 40 · Next

Message boards : Number crunching : 3rd.in - optimized apps

©2024 Astroinformatics Group