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Misfit
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Message 17250 - Posted: 1 Apr 2009, 4:45:44 UTC - in response to Message 17241.  

Will people be able to work around the CPU project and use their GPU on it via a 3rd party hack?

I hope no one would do this. The whole point is so everyone can have available work. There shouldn't be any difference in the work crunched to credit radio between projects, so I think it will be in everyones best interests that the GPU applications do the milkyway_gpu project. Once we make the swap over we'll not be awarding credit crunched here to the GPU applications as some additional incentive.

The "hack" is already done at SETI. AFAIK it's to grab the CPU work if the project runs out of GPU work. Available work indeed.
me@rescam.org
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ProfilePaul D. Buck

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Message 17255 - Posted: 1 Apr 2009, 6:17:01 UTC - in response to Message 17245.  

How are you going to handle the current credit data base? Freeze it and start over with new projects? Or are you going to determine what gets moved to what project? If the later, how are you going to determine what gets moved to what project? Ex, I have approx 25M on CPU, and 25M on GPU.

Continue accumulation here but only for work done on CPUs using CPU applications.

The GPU project will be GPU only like GPU Grid and will start at 0 for all hands. WIth new applications out from the project, theory says that the participant will be able to connect to both the CPU and GPU project and do work on both, but the totals will be separate.

So, you will have 50M and rising here, and what ever on the new project ...

Not sure how they are going to make this work when the one GPU application we do have is not integrated into the BOINC system ... and if the new application is CUDA will exclude most of the current base ... of course if it is released as OpenCL then both Nvidia and ATI owners can join the fray ... and it would be time for me to get a new GPU ... :)
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ProfileExar Kun [HoloNet]
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Message 17259 - Posted: 1 Apr 2009, 8:27:59 UTC

That's good news. I can propose my computers for beta-test if you need it :

- Quad Core Q6600 / Vista 32 bits (CPU only)

and

- Core2Duo E7200 / Vista 64 bits or Xp 32 bits / ATI HD 4850 512 Mo

If you need to test something I'm here ^^

Star Wars BOINC Team



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Profileborandi
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Message 17263 - Posted: 1 Apr 2009, 9:32:42 UTC
Last modified: 1 Apr 2009, 9:33:11 UTC

The only way to *stop* GPU clients on the smaller WU side of the site would be to ban all clients except the official one. And even then all that requires is a recompile of the GPU source with a name and output change.

In essence there will be two projects - one with short WUs and one with long WUs.

CPUs and GPUs can crunch for each, though logic dictates CPUs for the short, GPUs for the long. This is predicated on the fact that BOINC does not natively detect ATI GPUs.

In order for GPU clients to not immediately pummel a 'short WU' table, the stats tables should be combined over all work done for MilkyWay. We are all here doing MilkyWay@Home work - personally, I'd like all my credits to be counted under the banner 'MilkyWay@Home'.

Seti doesn't split between MultiBeam and AstroPulse. Rosetta doesn't split for each protein. All we have here is a leap forward in technology which everyone can use if they have it.

This also goes on the back of what CampaignForLiberty is saying:

How are you going to handle the current credit data base? Freeze it and start over with new projects? Or are you going to determine what gets moved to what project? If the later, how are you going to determine what gets moved to what project? Ex, I have approx 25M on CPU, and 25M on GPU.


If you have different tops tables, and then ban the GPU client from the shorter WUs, do you zero everyone? Do you move everyones score to the long WU top table? If you leave the score for short WUs here, then ban the GPU client, it will take ages for CPUs to reach the scores that GPUs have propelled everyone to.

If at all possible, the sensible solution would be to have a common tops table between both.

</rant with facts>
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Message 17265 - Posted: 1 Apr 2009, 9:49:58 UTC - in response to Message 17263.  
Last modified: 1 Apr 2009, 9:50:54 UTC

If at all possible, the sensible solution would be to have a common tops table between both.




I agree 100%
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ProfileThe Gas Giant
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Message 17266 - Posted: 1 Apr 2009, 9:51:43 UTC
Last modified: 1 Apr 2009, 10:04:09 UTC

Mind you, at this point in time, I just want wu's to keep both my GPU and CPU busy with MW work. Currently I not getting either very consistently!
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Thamir Ghaslan

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Message 17267 - Posted: 1 Apr 2009, 9:52:05 UTC - in response to Message 17255.  

How are you going to handle the current credit data base? Freeze it and start over with new projects? Or are you going to determine what gets moved to what project? If the later, how are you going to determine what gets moved to what project? Ex, I have approx 25M on CPU, and 25M on GPU.

Continue accumulation here but only for work done on CPUs using CPU applications.

The GPU project will be GPU only like GPU Grid and will start at 0 for all hands. WIth new applications out from the project, theory says that the participant will be able to connect to both the CPU and GPU project and do work on both, but the totals will be separate.

So, you will have 50M and rising here, and what ever on the new project ...

Not sure how they are going to make this work when the one GPU application we do have is not integrated into the BOINC system ... and if the new application is CUDA will exclude most of the current base ... of course if it is released as OpenCL then both Nvidia and ATI owners can join the fray ... and it would be time for me to get a new GPU ... :)


I don't think determining CPU from GPU tasks and then migrating would be difficult to implement. There are many fields and hints to determine what to split!

If they query the database to move any tasks below say, 10 second CPU time then its a GPU, anything higher then its CPU!

Or they could look into the GIPSEL string under application version.


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Thamir Ghaslan

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Message 17269 - Posted: 1 Apr 2009, 9:58:45 UTC - in response to Message 17263.  


CPUs and GPUs can crunch for each, though logic dictates CPUs for the short, GPUs for the long. This is predicated on the fact that BOINC does not natively detect ATI GPUs.


Who cares about BOINC!

A simple option on the user preference page to tick a box so that the server can send long WU if I have a GPU and short WU if I have a CPU will resolve this!

However, I guess the admins already decided to split the website in 2, one for GPU and one for CPU.
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ProfileLord Tedric
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Message 17272 - Posted: 1 Apr 2009, 12:40:46 UTC
Last modified: 1 Apr 2009, 13:22:08 UTC

As Kosh once said (or will say, depending on your frame of reference):-

"And so it begins" - again!
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Profileborandi
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Message 17281 - Posted: 1 Apr 2009, 15:46:28 UTC - in response to Message 17269.  


CPUs and GPUs can crunch for each, though logic dictates CPUs for the short, GPUs for the long. This is predicated on the fact that BOINC does not natively detect ATI GPUs.


Who cares about BOINC!

A simple option on the user preference page to tick a box so that the server can send long WU if I have a GPU and short WU if I have a CPU will resolve this!

However, I guess the admins already decided to split the website in 2, one for GPU and one for CPU.


The problem is that if it's a global option, most of the GPU users here also run CPUs for MW. So a global option is out.

Individual computer option is harder to implement - yes it is possible on the home/work/school prefs, but then they'd have to all be set and make sure all our boxes do it right.

BOINC detects nVidia CUDA cards, but not ATI capable cards yet. If this was an option, then the problem could be solved easily. That was my point.


Then comes the issue of when CUDA devices do join MW.... Is there to be a MilkyWay CPU, MilkyWay ATi, Milkyway nVidia projects? (Or short WU, long WU, longWU).

I'd suggest the GPU project spit out normal (but longer, more complex) WUs that would run on CPUs, and it's up to us to use the correct GPU specific app.
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ProfilePaul D. Buck

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Message 17289 - Posted: 1 Apr 2009, 18:04:58 UTC - in response to Message 17267.  

I don't think determining CPU from GPU tasks and then migrating would be difficult to implement. There are many fields and hints to determine what to split!

The problem is that all the rows with this data are already purged.
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Message 17326 - Posted: 2 Apr 2009, 11:18:15 UTC

What is the status on Milkyway GPU and Milkyway regular?
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Profile[AF>DoJ] supersonic

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Message 17343 - Posted: 2 Apr 2009, 16:34:34 UTC - in response to Message 17281.  

I'd suggest the GPU project spit out normal (but longer, more complex) WUs that would run on CPUs, and it's up to us to use the correct GPU specific app.


I agree on that
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ProfileNeal Chantrill
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Message 17345 - Posted: 2 Apr 2009, 17:40:46 UTC
Last modified: 2 Apr 2009, 17:59:28 UTC

I STILL can't believe the admins are going to split the project. At the end of the day people want to be near the top or we wouldn't have or even need the tables and stats, no question about it. I was going to get a GPU for my birthday but now whats the point? I already have one which would mean 2 GPU machines here and 2 CPU machines. I might as well pull the GPU one I have now and save myself the money and just play in the CPU league. BOINC totally negates the need for improving your computer equipement whether it's latest gadgets or overclocking. Surely more is better? Like I said before, what next a different one for quad core machines!!!
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Message 17357 - Posted: 2 Apr 2009, 19:18:01 UTC - in response to Message 17345.  

I STILL can't believe the admins are going to split the project. At the end of the day people want to be near the top or we wouldn't have or even need the tables and stats, no question about it. I was going to get a GPU for my birthday but now whats the point? I already have one which would mean 2 GPU machines here and 2 CPU machines. I might as well pull the GPU one I have now and save myself the money and just play in the CPU league. BOINC totally negates the need for improving your computer equipement whether it's latest gadgets or overclocking. Surely more is better? Like I said before, what next a different one for quad core machines!!!

With 2 GPUs and 2 CPUs there'd still be no chance of being near the top these days, you may need to set your sights a little lower.
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ProfileNeal Chantrill
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Message 17362 - Posted: 2 Apr 2009, 19:27:38 UTC

I meant machines, 2 gpu machines and 2 cpu machines. With what I had I was in the top 350 for RAC intill the work dried up. Was thinking of getting a 4850X2 whic I guess would but me up a tad further don't you think? I think me sights are fine :op

lol.
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Message 17364 - Posted: 2 Apr 2009, 19:35:38 UTC - in response to Message 17362.  

I meant machines, 2 gpu machines and 2 cpu machines. With what I had I was in the top 350 for RAC intill the work dried up. Was thinking of getting a 4850X2 whic I guess would but me up a tad further don't you think? I think me sights are fine :op

lol.

I suppose it depends on your definition of "near the top", but your hardware would be a fine addition and certainly get you "up there".
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ProfileNeal Chantrill
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Message 17366 - Posted: 2 Apr 2009, 19:49:13 UTC
Last modified: 2 Apr 2009, 19:56:43 UTC

I never meant top 10, my hardwares not cutting edge or will I ever have any. But a GPU for each of my machines would make a HUGE difference. Thing is if there are two tables whats the point of doing it that way? I might as well go for the cheap option of the CPU project. I mean think about it. If I want to upgrade my CPU's on my 3 machines that are still CPU I'd need a motherboard and a decent quad core or i7 thats on 3 machines remember, at what cost and not that steep a climb of the RAC. Now if I were to spend £360 I could buy 3 cards and have a HUGE RAC. Spliting the project is such a silly idea to me.
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Message 17369 - Posted: 2 Apr 2009, 20:13:17 UTC - in response to Message 17366.  
Last modified: 2 Apr 2009, 20:13:53 UTC

I never meant top 10, my hardwares not cutting edge or will I ever have any. But a GPU for each of my machines would make a HUGE difference. Thing is if there are two tables whats the point of doing it that way? I might as well go for the cheap option of the CPU project. I mean think about it. If I want to upgrade my CPU's on my 3 machines that are still CPU I'd need a motherboard and a decent quad core or i7 thats on 3 machines remember, at what cost and not that steep a climb of the RAC. Now if I were to spend £360 I could buy 3 cards and have a HUGE RAC. Spliting the project is such a silly idea to me.

If there is one set of stats tables it will be dominated by the multi-gpu based machines though and the folks with with multiple machines each with at least one GPU. I'd like to see separate stats table for GPU/CPU machines and CPU only machines, it'd help people with CPU only machines strive for more output. If the project didn't at least split the stats tables then there would be a whole group of people alienated.
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ProfileNeal Chantrill
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Message 17370 - Posted: 2 Apr 2009, 20:24:41 UTC
Last modified: 2 Apr 2009, 20:33:05 UTC

I can see your point I honestly can. The thing is the table will be dominated by quadcore over core2duo so whats the difference? Surely you have to take advantage of new technology. Crunching isn't a level playing field, never as been never will be.
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