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ProfileAriZonaMoon*
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Message 20094 - Posted: 22 Apr 2009, 23:03:29 UTC

Hei you guys.. Tell me once and for all;
Is there not room for everyone in here???
If not, who will go and tell the public that MW is only for
"the right kind of people - or the right kind of equipment"?
Im glad the Real Milkyway so far has accepted all of us. ;-)
We partisipate in lot of things in life, not just to be the
best, but because we like it.

Wouldn it be better to use time and energy on other things than
arguing about this? Yes, Im sure it would.... ;-)




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ProfileGalaxyIce
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Message 20099 - Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 0:00:37 UTC - in response to Message 20089.  

You forget one thing: the GPUs could do the new and the old searches more efficiently than CPUs.

You missed the flip side of the coin, capacity.

It would be tempting to run MW CPU whilst running MW GPU - if optimised MW CPU brings better credit returns than other projects. However, it might be better to contribute to other projects with the 'spare' CPU capacity and get some of the other stats moving.


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Message 20109 - Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 1:03:55 UTC

I...still...cannot...get...any...work...
me@rescam.org
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ProfileArion
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Message 20111 - Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 1:46:03 UTC - in response to Message 20094.  

Hei you guys.. Tell me once and for all;
Is there not room for everyone in here???
If not, who will go and tell the public that MW is only for
"the right kind of people - or the right kind of equipment"?
Im glad the Real Milkyway so far has accepted all of us. ;-)
We partisipate in lot of things in life, not just to be the
best, but because we like it.

Wouldn it be better to use time and energy on other things than
arguing about this? Yes, Im sure it would.... ;-)



HEAR HEAR !!!!!!!

I couldn't have said it in any better way myself ...

Arion


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Message 20113 - Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 3:40:54 UTC

>I...still...cannot...get...any...work...
You're obviously not trying hard enough...
or
Admit it - the project doesn't like you. :)
Cheers,

PeterV

.
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BarryAZ

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Message 20114 - Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 3:43:07 UTC - in response to Message 20094.  

I hear you, it seems thaat some folks feel that GPU's (and with Milkyway still, that is specifically 38xx and 48xx GPU's) is the ONLY way to go. In the BOINC world that clearly is not the case (perhaps the argument is that no other BOINC projects should exist as they promote inefficient processing).

I suppose at some point, I'll lay out funds to go GPU with a 48xx GPU or one of the higher end nVidea GPU's -- along with the requisite upgrade of 450W power supplies to 500W to 600W power supplies to feed the higher wattage requirements of the more power efficient GPU -- but that would still leave CPU processing power to be used (perhaps I'd become a closet CPU client as well).

Yes, for a specifically coded project, the specifically chosen GPU's generate a lot of processing power. But they still run in computers which still have CPU's.

The thing is, for some, concept of BOINC projects is to use otherwise fallow processing power (CPU OR GPU). For others, the primary concept of BOINC projects is maximizing credits and credit efficiency, everything else is waste. There are a range of positions between those two concepts, and, in the current world, there should be room for the positions -- PROVIDED folks don't get too religiously extreme about 'the only true way' of doing things. Personally I react poorly to that sort of prosletyzing -- might just be me.



Hei you guys.. Tell me once and for all;
Is there not room for everyone in here???
If not, who will go and tell the public that MW is only for
"the right kind of people - or the right kind of equipment"?
Im glad the Real Milkyway so far has accepted all of us. ;-)
We partisipate in lot of things in life, not just to be the
best, but because we like it.

Wouldn it be better to use time and energy on other things than
arguing about this? Yes, Im sure it would.... ;-)





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ProfileGalaxyIce
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Message 20116 - Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 4:55:47 UTC - in response to Message 20114.  

I hear you, it seems thaat some folks feel that GPU's (and with Milkyway still, that is specifically 38xx and 48xx GPU's) is the ONLY way to go.

It's a bit dangerous to ONLY go with a GPU project that doesn't exist (MW optimized GPU doesn't work - no WUs; MW-GPU doesn't exist yet). It's all very well someone at a university thinking that it would be cool to have a new project using ATI and nVidias, get some labstaff and "hey presto", but another thing turning it into reality.

As for 450W - all my ATI's are happy with around 300W - so far...


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Message 20119 - Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 5:16:12 UTC - in response to Message 20113.  

Admit it - the project doesn't like you. :)

I admit it. You don't like me.
me@rescam.org
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Message 20120 - Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 5:55:19 UTC - in response to Message 20116.  

Well that's the thing -- BOINC works quite well in a multiproject configuration -- and rather poorly in a single project configuration (too dependent on a single project's reliability, work availability, etc.). Once you move to multiproject, then a GPU configuration is a very real constraint. An example is here -- getting enough work is as you noted, problematic here and at the moment, no other project supports ATI GPU's -- for that matter the only ATI GPU support is via the optimized application -- and it is something of an ATI high end only (ie only 38xx and 48xx) - thus excluding the vast current majority of deployed ATI cards (embedded, earlier RADEON, etc.) So the GPU advocates here are really advocating an exclusive approach -- which is pretty 'anti-BOINC'.

What sort of ATI GPU's are you running? I'm guessing older lower power cards (Radeon x550 and the like).

It's a bit dangerous to ONLY go with a GPU project that doesn't exist (MW optimized GPU doesn't work - no WUs; MW-GPU doesn't exist yet). It's all very well someone at a university thinking that it would be cool to have a new project using ATI and nVidias, get some labstaff and "hey presto", but another thing turning it into reality.

As for 450W - all my ATI's are happy with around 300W - so far...


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BarryAZ

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Message 20121 - Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 5:56:04 UTC - in response to Message 20119.  

Admit it, at times you are easy not to like. :)

Admit it - the project doesn't like you. :)

I admit it. You don't like me.


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Brian Silvers

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Message 20123 - Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 6:16:42 UTC - in response to Message 20089.  


But it is not always a simple answer as to what is the most efficient way to get from here to there.


My point was, and is, that there was a lot of negativitiy from people who have GPUs. Those of us not fortunate enough to have such hardware are being deemed as "second class citizens". There is a ton of greed that is going on from the GPU side. If the project itself is happy with the rate of progress, then I suggest to the "GPU guys" that they simply deal... It's either that or they lobby the project PRIVATELY to eliminate CPU participation.
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Brian Silvers

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Message 20125 - Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 6:23:10 UTC - in response to Message 20121.  

Admit it, at times you are easy not to like. :)

Admit it - the project doesn't like you. :)

I admit it. You don't like me.



I often tell people that I have the ability to piss people off without even meaning to. I tend to take contrary positions to a lot of people / lot of viewpoints. People tend to get all bent out of shape because they think this, that, or the other about me. Personally, if I know you well enough, I'd do anything for you, but people tend to get hostile about things because they think I'm just making stuff up.
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ProfileThe Gas Giant
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Message 20126 - Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 6:24:32 UTC

Milkyway is the most efficient project in terms of joules/credit for CPUs, it is just an order of magnitude better for the good GPU's.

If someone chooses to do MW on their CPU they will be getting the best credit per joule they can than on any other BOINC project.

There should be no arguement about this.

Live long and BOINC!
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Message 20130 - Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 6:45:48 UTC - in response to Message 20123.  


My point was, and is, that there was a lot of negativitiy from people who have GPUs. Those of us not fortunate enough to have such hardware are being deemed as "second class citizens". There is a ton of greed that is going on from the GPU side. If the project itself is happy with the rate of progress, then I suggest to the "GPU guys" that they simply deal... It's either that or they lobby the project PRIVATELY to eliminate CPU participation.

Is that how you see it? How sad.


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Message 20135 - Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 9:50:45 UTC - in response to Message 20126.  

Milkyway is the most efficient project in terms of joules/credit for CPUs, it is just an order of magnitude better for the good GPU's.

If someone chooses to do MW on their CPU they will be getting the best credit per joule they can than on any other BOINC project.

There should be no arguement about this.

Live long and BOINC!


Agreed, right now my NVIDIA Cards are doing more @ the GPUGrid Project than the ATI Cards I have are doing @ the Milkyway project so why shouldn't I run my CPU's here.
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ProfileThe Gas Giant
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Message 20138 - Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 10:30:46 UTC - in response to Message 20135.  

Milkyway is the most efficient project in terms of joules/credit for CPUs, it is just an order of magnitude better for the good GPU's.

If someone chooses to do MW on their CPU they will be getting the best credit per joule they can than on any other BOINC project.

There should be no arguement about this.

Live long and BOINC!


Agreed, right now my NVIDIA Cards are doing more @ the GPUGrid Project than the ATI Cards I have are doing @ the Milkyway project so why shouldn't I run my CPU's here.

Exactly...you may run either your CPU's or GPU's at any project you can and wish to participate in!

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Profile[AF>Libristes]on2vhf

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Message 20142 - Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 10:45:21 UTC - in response to Message 20138.  

hello all,
i am power supply only 450w, and running GPU "milky" and 100/100 CPU in other project,
and no problem for power :)
regards,
laurent
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ProfileGalaxyIce
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Message 20145 - Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 11:00:58 UTC - in response to Message 20142.  
Last modified: 23 Apr 2009, 11:01:38 UTC

hello all,
i am power supply only 450w, and running GPU "milky" and 100/100 CPU in other project,
and no problem for power :)
regards,
laurent

Hi laurant & BarryAZ. I have ATI HD4870 and HD4850s all running in boxes with a power supply of no more than 330w. All these also crunch CPDN with CPU. They were all going full pelt when I was up to a RAC of 150,000+ not so long ago and I haven't experienced any PSU problems with them (yet).

What sort of ATI GPU's are you running? I'm guessing older lower power cards (Radeon x550 and the like).

As for 450W - all my ATI's are happy with around 300W - so far...


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Message 20146 - Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 11:04:55 UTC - in response to Message 20145.  

If these cards run ok on 300 watt PS why do manufacturers recommend 350W or even 450 on some of them?
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Message 20153 - Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 11:27:09 UTC - in response to Message 20146.  

If these cards run ok on 300 watt PS why do manufacturers recommend 350W or even 450 on some of them?


look at the nVidia website, i'm sure they'rerecomending a 650w for s system that runs a 4890
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