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ProfileWestsail and *Pyxey*
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Message 25226 - Posted: 13 Jun 2009, 4:45:44 UTC

Cheap is a very subjective term in that sense Ice...
My home photo printer costs $100US
The photo printer I use at work cost $100,000US (Noritsu)
They were both quite "cheap"..

By any metric however, Richards statement was accurate. Boinc's whole premise is allowing research (hopefully with no profit motive) that otherwise would be unable to be done..do to no one willing to finance it (because of lack of ROI).

The beauty of boinc is individual contributions no matter. It is the collective that creates the awesome processing power that is the Boinc scientific network.
.02...but not cheap :P
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ProfileGalaxyIce
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Message 25227 - Posted: 13 Jun 2009, 6:04:07 UTC - in response to Message 25204.  
Last modified: 13 Jun 2009, 6:05:42 UTC

You continue to flail about thinking people meant something that they didn't and still do not mean...

That's a cheap way of of trying to win your point. If someone says "we are doing science on the cheap" and I say I disagree, that I am not doing science on the cheap, I am not "flail about thinking" - I am saying I disagree with someone trying to say I am as cheap as the contribution they think they are making.

"We are doing science on the cheap" implies that one and all are doing science on the cheap. I do not "flail" when I say I disagree and neither do I use cheap arguments to make a case for a disagreeable statement.

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ProfileThe Gas Giant
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Message 25242 - Posted: 13 Jun 2009, 10:39:32 UTC

Ahhh, I see we're in the 30 minute argument room.
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Chris S
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Message 25249 - Posted: 13 Jun 2009, 12:49:44 UTC

all I want to say about this is that - I am SO glad I am free to come and go as I please. I guess i must be the only one.. as it sounds. Aint I lucky! ;-)


No you aren't the only one. Like you, I treat Boinc and it's projects as a past-time and a hobby. It is not a mantra or a way of life. I can pick it up or put it down as it suits me. My family and friends in the real world will always come first.
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Message 25254 - Posted: 13 Jun 2009, 13:50:09 UTC

A hobby for me too. A very expensive hobby...
Cheers,

PeterV

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Chris S
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Message 25259 - Posted: 13 Jun 2009, 15:03:50 UTC

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Message 25317 - Posted: 13 Jun 2009, 21:34:45 UTC - in response to Message 24693.  
Last modified: 13 Jun 2009, 21:46:12 UTC

You are looking at it from YOUR perspective, not the project's ...

Not looking anywhere really, just concerned that you are belittling my 'cheap' efforts. It's not 'cheap' for the project either. Everyone can clearly see that the total cost of the project is HUGE with the all the crunching contribution included, and that contribution is not 'cheap'.

By all means describe your contribution and efforts as 'cheap', but less the the 'we' since I certainly object to be included in your 'we'.


but, because we are doing science on the cheap ...





Says Ice with his quarter million RAC...well since the hypocrisy pot is boiling over now...maybe a little perspective on this...

Your contribution is just that "your contribution" how cheap is a matter of what you are trying to get from it or what you are trying to give to it, however don't ever forget it's your choice...and from the rest of us that either can't afford to purchase the hardware to run the app or have the hardware but can't seem to get an app ported for their systems (in my personal case)...please do us a favor and stop whining about the money you have chosen/continue to choose to spend..."we" have little empathy for you.

Crunch and be happy
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ProfileThe Gas Giant
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Message 25326 - Posted: 13 Jun 2009, 22:18:48 UTC
Last modified: 13 Jun 2009, 22:29:17 UTC

As much as I have argued with Ice in the past in this case I have to say it is all a matter of perspective - personal perspective. If Ice thinks he is not doing science on the cheap then so be it, that is his perspective. If you and I think we are doing science on the cheap then so be it, that is our perspective. You can't argue with how people feel about things, especially when they're stubborn (like my wife for example).
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ProfileGalaxyIce
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Message 25332 - Posted: 13 Jun 2009, 23:07:00 UTC - in response to Message 25317.  

You are looking at it from YOUR perspective, not the project's ...

Not looking anywhere really, just concerned that you are belittling my 'cheap' efforts. It's not 'cheap' for the project either. Everyone can clearly see that the total cost of the project is HUGE with the all the crunching contribution included, and that contribution is not 'cheap'.

By all means describe your contribution and efforts as 'cheap', but less the the 'we' since I certainly object to be included in your 'we'.

but, because we are doing science on the cheap ...




Says Ice with his quarter million RAC...well since the hypocrisy pot is boiling over now...maybe a little perspective on this...

Your contribution is just that "your contribution" how cheap is a matter of what you are trying to get from it or what you are trying to give to it, however don't ever forget it's your choice...and from the rest of us that either can't afford to purchase the hardware to run the app or have the hardware but can't seem to get an app ported for their systems (in my personal case)...please do us a favor and stop whining about the money you have chosen/continue to choose to spend..."we" have little empathy for you.

For goodness sakes. This is about someone saying "we are doing sience cheaply" and I am firmly saying that I disagree and that I am NOT doing science cheaply. This is not about my RAC, my contribution, what I can afford, what app I can get ported, what empathy you have or all the other rubbish that is bring brought into the arguement.

I do NOT agree that "we are doing science cheaply", and it has nothing to do with my feelings but with the money leaving my wallet.

Why don't you crunch and be happy and don't go speaking for me I saying I am doing science on the cheap when you have no I idea what I spend on it, and if you saw my electricity bills you would be nuts to say it was cheap, thank you.



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ProfileKWSN imcrazynow
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Message 25341 - Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 0:10:16 UTC

Ice, I'm not trying to be an A hole, but whether you like it or not "you" are part of a whole. Forget your wallet. You give what you can afford to give to the project and no more, just like the rest of us. Your taking offense to being included in that whole is extremely petty. If you don't like the money leaving your wallet in order to help support this project then don't spend any more. If you think you're spending too much then cut back. It's that simple. Nobody was trying to belittle your contributions in any way. You just took it that way.
Believe it or not, "you" are part of the bigger picture "we".
Ni!
Have a nice day!

4870 GPU
4870 GPU
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ProfileGalaxyIce
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Message 25347 - Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 0:29:50 UTC - in response to Message 25341.  
Last modified: 14 Jun 2009, 0:31:08 UTC

Ice, I'm not trying to be an A hole, but whether you like it or not "you" are part of a whole. Forget your wallet. You give what you can afford to give to the project and no more, just like the rest of us. Your taking offense to being included in that whole is extremely petty. If you don't like the money leaving your wallet in order to help support this project then don't spend any more. If you think you're spending too much then cut back. It's that simple. Nobody was trying to belittle your contributions in any way. You just took it that way.
Believe it or not, "you" are part of the bigger picture "we".
Ni!
Have a nice day!

I'm sorry, but you really are going off at tangents. It is not about whether I like the money leaving my wallet, or what I can afford or what I want to give. It is about someone trying to speaking for me and saying "we are doing science on the cheap", and I am saying No No no no No, I am not part of your "we" in this satement because I am NOT doing science on the cheap.

It's not about whether I am part of this project, how many mothballs there are in my wallet, how sensitive I am, what I need to cut back on or any of my home economics. I will not agree to someone stating that "we are doing science on the cheap". You can say it's cheap for you, but don't try and say it's cheap for me.

You have a nice day to. Mine was cheap since I peddaled instead of using my car today, unscientifically.

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Message 25351 - Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 0:35:32 UTC - in response to Message 25259.  


Cheers,

PeterV

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Message 25352 - Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 0:35:35 UTC - in response to Message 25259.  
Last modified: 14 Jun 2009, 0:37:53 UTC


Cheers,

PeterV

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Message 25353 - Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 0:40:25 UTC - in response to Message 25352.  
Last modified: 14 Jun 2009, 0:40:50 UTC

Yes, quite expensive.

Yes, quite expensive. Not "cheap", as in "we are doing science on the cheap"

I also agree with this;

But if my circumstances change such that I can no longer afford it, I... stop. Any certain projects will lose a large amount of data crunched.


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Message 25385 - Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 8:38:30 UTC

Ok,

Every one but Ice is doing science on the Cheap ...

Sadly the point Ice keeps missing is that when you buy commercial/industrial rated components the costs are higher than when you buy components for home use. It is even worse if you go Mil-Spec because then the equipment has to be able to work from -30 something to 120 something ...

It is even worse when you look at things like supercomputers that are more than just piles of PCs. The modern advance where we do make supercomputers (including BOINC) out of piles of coupled PCs does reduce the costs... and that is the comparison I have made here ... Were MW to want to rent supercomputer time, or to build their own computing farm to do the work their costs would make the project impractical.

Personal costs are not actually relevant. As others have noted, participation in this, or any other project is completely voluntary and if you feel that you are engaged in an expensive pass-time, perhaps it is time to reconsider your level of participation.

I spend less than many but far more than most and yet don't feel that this is expensive or a waste of my investment ... my spouse does ... but I don't ...

Anyway, this discussion should be dropped, Ice feels I slighted him and I feel bad that he does not want to be part of the whole of us ... but, no one is going to change his mind ... the only nice thing is that at least most people got the point I was trying to get across ...

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Message 25392 - Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 10:38:33 UTC - in response to Message 25332.  
Last modified: 14 Jun 2009, 10:41:23 UTC

You are looking at it from YOUR perspective, not the project's ...

Not looking anywhere really, just concerned that you are belittling my 'cheap' efforts. It's not 'cheap' for the project either. Everyone can clearly see that the total cost of the project is HUGE with the all the crunching contribution included, and that contribution is not 'cheap'.

By all means describe your contribution and efforts as 'cheap', but less the the 'we' since I certainly object to be included in your 'we'.

but, because we are doing science on the cheap ...




Says Ice with his quarter million RAC...well since the hypocrisy pot is boiling over now...maybe a little perspective on this...

Your contribution is just that "your contribution" how cheap is a matter of what you are trying to get from it or what you are trying to give to it, however don't ever forget it's your choice...and from the rest of us that either can't afford to purchase the hardware to run the app or have the hardware but can't seem to get an app ported for their systems (in my personal case)...please do us a favor and stop whining about the money you have chosen/continue to choose to spend..."we" have little empathy for you.

For goodness sakes. This is about someone saying "we are doing sience cheaply" and I am firmly saying that I disagree and that I am NOT doing science cheaply. This is not about my RAC, my contribution, what I can afford, what app I can get ported, what empathy you have or all the other rubbish that is bring brought into the arguement.

I do NOT agree that "we are doing science cheaply", and it has nothing to do with my feelings but with the money leaving my wallet.

Why don't you crunch and be happy and don't go speaking for me I saying I am doing science on the cheap when you have no I idea what I spend on it, and if you saw my electricity bills you would be nuts to say it was cheap, thank you.



Yes, thank you for supporting my observation with your continued insistence that it's not about your contribution or what you can "afford"...yet here you are bringing that as your main argument...care to rephrase it? As Paul D. Buck has stated you are missing the point entirely...and your continued insistence that you are not doing science on the cheap only serves to point out how insidious and baseless this argument of yours really is. Just remember even with your high RAC and the money that you are so kindly putting out towards the project (thank you) and your crunching just amounts to a small drop in the collective bucket, however that being said it would still be far more expensive for the project to do their science in a more conventional manner so yes we collectively, project wide ARE DOING SCIENCE ON THE CHEAP...get over it and get over yourself for just a microsecond and come back to reality...you are right about one thing though...it's not about you...,or your oxymoronic arguments.
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Message 25399 - Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 11:16:03 UTC
Last modified: 14 Jun 2009, 11:17:43 UTC

Hi people nice day huh?? One minute there's a problem about the credit being lowered and the arguing and flaming that went on at that time, then the no WU drama and the constant whining about that, now we have you mob arguing about how cheaply or not you are doing this project.

Frankly who cares and I think it's about time the folks involved have a good hard look at themselves and agree to disagree.

And that my friends is my 2cents worth. and there is no I in team....

Cheers
Glenn
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Message 25408 - Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 12:07:05 UTC - in response to Message 25392.  
Last modified: 14 Jun 2009, 12:29:26 UTC

...care to rephrase it?

No thanks, Paul D. Buck has said "Ok, Every one but Ice is doing science on the Cheap ...". I'll continue with the knowledge that doing this science is expensive for me, and leave you lot wound up with how cheap it is for you.

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UBT - Ben

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Message 25418 - Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 12:43:20 UTC
Last modified: 14 Jun 2009, 12:43:44 UTC

Just to lighten the mood a little...
If i have a cricket ball in one hand, and a cricket ball in another hand. What do i have? :-)









...A very large cricket :P
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John Clark

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Message 25426 - Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 13:42:15 UTC
Last modified: 14 Jun 2009, 13:42:57 UTC

2 x 4/3 x pi x R^3
Go away, I was asleep


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