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ProfileEs99
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Message 29382 - Posted: 15 Aug 2009, 7:49:00 UTC - in response to Message 29366.  
Last modified: 15 Aug 2009, 7:54:17 UTC

I'm absolutely stunned by the lies told about the UK NHS in the American Media at the moment.



Yes ES. I watched the media debate shown on Newsnight tonight, and clips shown by Fox News - both from Euro MPs and so called investigation interviews.

Clearly the US medical insurance, etc, debate wants things left as they currently are - so leaving 45 Americans with no health insurance, and a further 25 million seriously under insured.

But the main blatant lies cane from claims that the UK NHS took up to 18 months to treat terminal conditions, like cancer. Absolute lies, and the from first seen to serious treatment is now down to between 2 and 3 months.

Second, the treatment of patients using advanced techniques is almost on a par with the US. But there is a few new treatments that are not yet available in the UK - like proton therapy.

Fox News is careless in researching its facts on a subject before it broadcasts. It falls squarely in to the camp of Don't let the truth spoil a good story.

Finally, one area that was claimed is that research done under private medical insurance is more advanced than state funded research in the UK.

So, who is currently the leaders in cloning and stem cell research?

I know that the propaganda is being pushed by the insurance companies who make big money and obviously don't want things to change.

I guess we don't realise how lucky we are here. If my children are sick I simply take them to see a doctor. Prescriptions for children are free, which is good thing when you think of how many times they've had ear infections or things like that!

A few months ago I found a lump in my breast. I saw my doctor the same day and the next day I had a hospital appointment with a specialists. Within days I'd all all the scans needed to reassure me it wasn't cancer. That is how it should be in a wealthy developed nation. I hope the Americans see past the lies and vote for what they should have by right. No one should ever be in position where they can't get the care they need and deserve when they are sick.

Briton providing free healthcare to thousands of Americans

This is a good article on the British perspective of what is going on in America regarding the recent healthcare debate: Why I'll never understand Americans
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Message 29386 - Posted: 15 Aug 2009, 12:13:00 UTC
Last modified: 15 Aug 2009, 12:15:25 UTC

I have always wondered Why people in the USA have this horrible system -
And even more - why do you accept it??? Health insuranse is for me something
I take - to make sure that if our health situations
changes dramaticly, we gets out money to rebuild parts of the house, or what
ever else that has to be changed in our life situation. The money we
get out is a needed help if so. Some changes are
permanent. This is what a health insurance is for..

Health care is one of the most important issues for a human being,
and should be provided in the best way for Everyone. How dare american
government to "deside" to help only those who can pay for it - and in the
same time condemn the health situation in the third world.. As far as
I can see it - it works the same way as in Usa. Only those who can
afford it....
Dangerous to say; Why sending people in wars for the tax money, and let
someone civilian at home die, because they dont have the "right health insurance"??
Guess once what I think about it - And guess once if I would
have
moved away from there... emigrated to another country. ;-))

I dont understand it - but its obvious that americans LET the insurance companies, and
the medical companies ruling the whole system. Do anyone
know how much these companies pay one sides of the political system, to
make sure their wants continues to be fulfilled?

*groan*

I`ll stay here on my island.. Even though we dont have
a doctor living out here.. ;-))
If I am very ill, and call - he comes.
I`ve tried it several times.. ;-)
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Message 29388 - Posted: 15 Aug 2009, 13:33:01 UTC

Two points here, the UK has only has a National Health Service since 1948, and secondly, we basically have a 2 tier system over here. The NHS gives free basic treatment to every citizen, but for those that can afford it there is BUPA, a private health insurance.

If you choose to join and pay, you will generally get seen quicker, have wider access to a range of consultants and specialists, and get treated in private hospitals. Many companies offer BUPA as a standard part of Management salary packages.

However, you try finding a NHS dentist in the UK, most have gone over to only treating private patients because they make considerably more money.

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Message 29389 - Posted: 15 Aug 2009, 15:03:56 UTC
Last modified: 15 Aug 2009, 15:05:15 UTC

well... Mostly where ever you go in the world, you
will be noticed first if you have money.. ;-))
But that is another case. What we are talking about
here is the human rights to get help when we need it.
At least the system should show that is the main thought,
and have it built so it works as optimal as possible.
Still, there will always be those who can even buy their
own doctor - But knowing about the "Michael Jackson-case",
Im not sure if its worth it. ;-))
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Message 29390 - Posted: 15 Aug 2009, 15:33:29 UTC - in response to Message 29382.  

I'm absolutely stunned by the lies told about the UK NHS in the American Media at the moment.



Yes ES. I watched the media debate shown on Newsnight tonight, and clips shown by Fox News - both from Euro MPs and so called investigation interviews.

Clearly the US medical insurance, etc, debate wants things left as they currently are - so leaving 45 Americans with no health insurance, and a further 25 million seriously under insured.

But the main blatant lies cane from claims that the UK NHS took up to 18 months to treat terminal conditions, like cancer. Absolute lies, and the from first seen to serious treatment is now down to between 2 and 3 months.

Second, the treatment of patients using advanced techniques is almost on a par with the US. But there is a few new treatments that are not yet available in the UK - like proton therapy.

Fox News is careless in researching its facts on a subject before it broadcasts. It falls squarely in to the camp of Don't let the truth spoil a good story.

Finally, one area that was claimed is that research done under private medical insurance is more advanced than state funded research in the UK.

So, who is currently the leaders in cloning and stem cell research?

I know that the propaganda is being pushed by the insurance companies who make big money and obviously don't want things to change.

I guess we don't realize how lucky we are here. If my children are sick I simply take them to see a doctor. Prescriptions for children are free, which is good thing when you think of how many times they've had ear infections or things like that!

A few months ago I found a lump in my breast. I saw my doctor the same day and the next day I had a hospital appointment with a specialists. Within days I'd all all the scans needed to reassure me it wasn't cancer. That is how it should be in a wealthy developed nation. I hope the Americans see past the lies and vote for what they should have by right. No one should ever be in position where they can't get the care they need and deserve when they are sick.

Briton providing free healthcare to thousands of Americans

This is a good article on the British perspective of what is going on in America regarding the recent healthcare debate: Why I'll never understand Americans

Yeah I noticed that on TV not too long ago, My benefits don't cost Me anything, But for one operation all I've gotten is You live too far away, I live in Yermo CA and the Doctors who could do this under My benefits are in Long Beach CA(Cheapskates and Charlatans), Yet two of My relatives(Ones an RN) got the same surgery plus lap band and they live in Victorville CA and had the Surgery down in Long Beach CA which is where the Doctors are at that could operate on Me, But they won't as they say I'm over 30 miles away and that's clearly a phony excuse, My relatives paid in cash, I only have IEHP/Medi-Cal(Medicaid outside CA). What type of surgery am I typing about? Plastic surgery on My abdomen and thighs to stop the constant painful red rashes that I get from happening and yeah tonight I'll have to use some powder(medicated) after using a cool wet wash cloth to cool the skin down in the affected area, My last idiot doctor said I want to send You to a nutritionist and then to a skin doctor, Before that It was to an internal medicine doctor and He said He couldn't help Me, The last time I saw the Doc He said He doubted I have any such benefit(It's in the IEHP Booklet that I do indeed have that Medical Benefit), My last Doctor is/was a QUACK!

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Message 29393 - Posted: 15 Aug 2009, 16:01:34 UTC

I'll relate a tale of someone I know from 3 years ago. He found a lump on a testicle and his GP sent him immediately to a consultant. It was diagnosed as cancer and he was operated on straight away. As he was being treated as a private BUPA patient, the Consultant also arranged for a full body scan as a precaution.

That's when it was discovered he also had early stages of prostate cancer, despite not having had any symptoms. This was also treated successfully with radiation. He says he wouldn't have got the secondary scan under the NHS and might not be here now.
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Message 29395 - Posted: 15 Aug 2009, 18:13:13 UTC - in response to Message 29393.  
Last modified: 15 Aug 2009, 18:26:50 UTC

I'll relate a tale of someone I know from 3 years ago. He found a lump on a testicle and his GP sent him immediately to a consultant. It was diagnosed as cancer and he was operated on straight away. As he was being treated as a private BUPA patient, the Consultant also arranged for a full body scan as a precaution.

That's when it was discovered he also had early stages of prostate cancer, despite not having had any symptoms. This was also treated successfully with radiation. He says he wouldn't have got the secondary scan under the NHS and might not be here now.

How does he know he wouldn't have got the secondary scan on the NHS?

Edit: Although I gather your point is that people still have the choice to use private health care here. One of the lies told to the American people is that we are not allowed to use private health care.

48 million Americans cannot get medical insurance. So although those that can afford the best medical insurance get outstanding care under the US system. 48 million don't get any care at all.

The NHS is not perfect (no system could be), but it allows every single person access to high quality care.

Britains have a better life expectancy than Americans and the cost of the healthcare is actually cheaper per GDP than the American system.

Apparently at one of the recent demonstrations in the US a man who is against Obama's health plan was injured. He then had to ask for donations towards his treatment as he had recently been made redundant and had no health plan.
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Message 29396 - Posted: 15 Aug 2009, 18:29:33 UTC - in response to Message 29395.  

I'll relate a tale of someone I know from 3 years ago. He found a lump on a testicle and his GP sent him immediately to a consultant. It was diagnosed as cancer and he was operated on straight away. As he was being treated as a private BUPA patient, the Consultant also arranged for a full body scan as a precaution.

That's when it was discovered he also had early stages of prostate cancer, despite not having had any symptoms. This was also treated successfully with radiation. He says he wouldn't have got the secondary scan under the NHS and might not be here now.

How does he know he wouldn't have got the secondary scan on the NHS?

Edit: Although I gather your point is that people still have the choice to use private health care here. One of the lies told to the American people is that we are not allowed to use private health care.

48 million Americans cannot get medical insurance. So although those that can afford the best medical insurance get outstanding care under the US system. 48 million don't get any care at all.

The NHS is not perfect (no system could be), but it allows every single person access to high quality care.

Britains have a better life expectancy than Americans and the cost of the healthcare is actually cheaper per GDP than the American system.

Apparently at one of the recent demonstrations in the US a man who is against Obama's health plan was injured. He then had to ask for donations towards his treatment as he had recently been made redundant and had no health plan.

Sounds like they found a real hypocrite there.

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Message 29405 - Posted: 15 Aug 2009, 21:13:15 UTC - in response to Message 29395.  


48 million Americans cannot get medical insurance.

Isn't that high. The number thats going around is 36 mill. That is made up of ~10-15 mil of people who choose not to get it, 10+ mil who are out of work now, 10+ mil of illegial mexicans.

his plan is to put ALL non-goverment americans on the gov't plan. It is in the bill to force you to leave your current plan and be put on it. Also everyone is told to take pain pills and die. This is not a better plan.
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Message 29406 - Posted: 15 Aug 2009, 21:47:28 UTC
Last modified: 15 Aug 2009, 22:01:32 UTC

How does he know he wouldn't have got the secondary scan on the NHS?


His consultant told him at the time that the NHS does not have the resources/funds to go looking for problems where there are no reported symptoms.

Edit: Although I gather your point is that people still have the choice to use private health care here. One of the lies told to the American people is that we are not allowed to use private health care.


My point was that all UK citizens have the right to free health treatment, whether it be a prescription for a cold medication, or a triple heart bypass. Those that can afford it, or have it paid for them, can use private medical insurance to receieve an enhanced level of care.

It is my view that any 21st century society, in any country, should provide free basic medical care to its citizens. Sadly in some 3rd world countries this is just not possible, hence the number of International medical charities. Can you remember Biafra......

How much would it cost for the USA to introduce the equivalent of the NHS? Surely more than Congress can afford or vote through. Politics rule, always have, always will, and all the while innocent people suffer. This is the way of the world we live in. The press of course are as much to blame as anybody else.

We hear in the UK that if you have a heart attack in New York, people will step over you on the sidewalk and ignore you. If the medics are called, and you can't produce a medical insurance card, they also walk away. True or not true?

In the UK people get treated first and questions get asked later, but then we have what they call a welfare state.
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Message 29407 - Posted: 15 Aug 2009, 23:15:19 UTC - in response to Message 29405.  


48 million Americans cannot get medical insurance.

Isn't that high. The number thats going around is 36 mill. That is made up of ~10-15 mil of people who choose not to get it, 10+ mil who are out of work now, 10+ mil of illegal Mexicans.

His plan is to put ALL non-government Americans on the govt plan. It is in the bill to force you to leave your current plan and be put on it. Also everyone is told to take pain pills and die. This is not a better plan.

That isn't true, He said If You have a plan You like, You keep It, No one will force You to go anywhere, I saw President Obama say It on TV, If You don't believe It fine, I don't care, But please don't spread false rumors. As to coverage for those in the US illegally, It won't be allowed, period. I saw that on TV and the President showed where It says that in a blown up copy of one page and It's in huge print. As to the Number I've heard 46 million, I'm not a part of that, But I'd love to have something other than Medi-Cal(Medicaid in the other 49 states of the USA), But being disabled and totally dependent on inadequate SSI checks and ancient and out of date SSI rules, What can I or others do as there are two classes or Disability in the USA, Those with SSDI who are at poverty levels for their checks and those Who get SSI and whose checks are way below poverty, I'd like to live a normal life, whatever that is.

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Message 29408 - Posted: 15 Aug 2009, 23:42:35 UTC - in response to Message 29406.  
Last modified: 16 Aug 2009, 0:13:49 UTC

How does he know he wouldn't have got the secondary scan on the NHS?


His consultant told him at the time that the NHS does not have the resources/funds to go looking for problems where there are no reported symptoms.

Edit: Although I gather your point is that people still have the choice to use private health care here. One of the lies told to the American people is that we are not allowed to use private health care.


My point was that all UK citizens have the right to free health treatment, whether it be a prescription for a cold medication, or a triple heart bypass. Those that can afford it, or have it paid for them, can use private medical insurance to receive an enhanced level of care.

It is my view that any 21st century society, in any country, should provide free basic medical care to its citizens. Sadly in some 3rd world countries this is just not possible, hence the number of International medical charities. Can you remember Biafra......

How much would it cost for the USA to introduce the equivalent of the NHS? Surely more than Congress can afford or vote through. Politics rule, always have, always will, and all the while innocent people suffer. This is the way of the world we live in. The press of course are as much to blame as anybody else.

We hear in the UK that if you have a heart attack in New York, people will step over you on the sidewalk and ignore you. If the medics are called, and you can't produce a medical insurance card, they also walk away. True or not true?

In the UK people get treated first and questions get asked later, but then we have what they call a welfare state.


Please address My concerns in the health care bill as I was held hostage against My will until I signed. Note back then I was uninsured except by the county, The Hospital(See below) would only accept their coverage or whatever they did allow, Even My brother wouldn't go there as His Government medical coverage wasn't welcome there(He was retired US Navy with just 20 years of Service, He died in 2005, The NAVY and SSA deserted Him in the last two weeks of His life and wanted the final two weeks of the money He was given sent back as He had retirement pay and SSDI as He was Disabled, Cancer claimed His life, He was 61 years old and very frightened and I couldn't be with Him when He died as I live 45 miles away from His Widows house, I could only visit once a month then) and I suspect Medi-Cal/Medicaid isn't either as SSI as I said later on wouldn't pay for any of My medical bills related to 2002.

Desert Valley Hospital
www.dvmc.com

16850 Bear Valley Rd
Victorville, CA 92395
(760) 241-8000

I do know about California or at least the part I've lived in for Most of My life, Paramedics if called by dialing 911 will come and they will transport one to the nearest Hospital, In San Bernardino County if the nearest Hospital is a for profit Hospital they will only take You there, Unless It's full of course then It's on to the next closest Hospital, For Me a "for Profit Hospital" is a Dirty word, As once they get You If You are uninsured or have any form of health insurance that they don't cover and that could/would(does in one case) include Medi-Cal(Medicaid) and so before any treatment happens they want someone to sign on the dotted line(financial responsibility form) and they view You as their property and You have no rights at all(Civil or Constitutionally), You can refuse treatment, At least as long as You can withstand any and all pain, But You will be denied the right to call anyone including a lawyer or the police/sheriff or even Ones relatives until You sign on the dotted line, I had that happen to Me, My civil rights were violated and I was forced to sign under duress back in 2002 and I couldn't leave as I had a broken leg and I was tied down to a gurney unable to move more than My arms, So I was trapped and My right to freedom of choice was ripped from Me. Cause the only alternative was a trip of 44.2 miles one way(52 minutes on the freeway through a mountain pass) or 47.1 miles(1hr 5mins directly over the mountains) in the back of a Pickup Truck and there are no belts there and no seats and I was barely able to keep from slipping into unconsciousness(Shock) and Shock can lead to death as My injury was considered life-threatening(Broken lower left leg). So since I didn't have the money to bankrupt afterwards, I had to endure a $16,000+ bill that kept growing that I could never afford, I was awarded SSI Disability in 2004 and awarded payments back to 2003, But SSI/Medical would not touch My Hospital bill from 2002 at all, So I had to out wait It as My credit such as It was, Was already ruined and since I had a small income below $1800 a month I could not rebuild My credit at all as I couldn't even afford to get a Car loan or even a secured credit card, Today I could barely afford either one, But If I did It I'd have no cushion at all.

Oh and the bill? In California there is a statute of Limitations of 4 years on debt(I looked It up once), So after 2006 I was legally off the hook, In early 2009 It should according to one credit reporting agency be off My credit history entirely, And I didn't go bankrupt once, No one in My family has done that.

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Message 29409 - Posted: 16 Aug 2009, 0:38:26 UTC - in response to Message 29405.  


48 million Americans cannot get medical insurance.

Isn't that high. The number thats going around is 36 mill. That is made up of ~10-15 mil of people who choose not to get it, 10+ mil who are out of work now, 10+ mil of illegial mexicans.

Even 36 mil is shockingly high. But that is not the figure we've been told.

his plan is to put ALL non-goverment americans on the gov't plan. It is in the bill to force you to leave your current plan and be put on it. Also everyone is told to take pain pills and die. This is not a better plan.

I think you need to check your facts on this. That isn't what is proposed at all.
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Message 29410 - Posted: 16 Aug 2009, 0:45:31 UTC - in response to Message 29408.  

How does he know he wouldn't have got the secondary scan on the NHS?


His consultant told him at the time that the NHS does not have the resources/funds to go looking for problems where there are no reported symptoms.

Edit: Although I gather your point is that people still have the choice to use private health care here. One of the lies told to the American people is that we are not allowed to use private health care.


My point was that all UK citizens have the right to free health treatment, whether it be a prescription for a cold medication, or a triple heart bypass. Those that can afford it, or have it paid for them, can use private medical insurance to receive an enhanced level of care.

It is my view that any 21st century society, in any country, should provide free basic medical care to its citizens. Sadly in some 3rd world countries this is just not possible, hence the number of International medical charities. Can you remember Biafra......

How much would it cost for the USA to introduce the equivalent of the NHS? Surely more than Congress can afford or vote through. Politics rule, always have, always will, and all the while innocent people suffer. This is the way of the world we live in. The press of course are as much to blame as anybody else.

We hear in the UK that if you have a heart attack in New York, people will step over you on the sidewalk and ignore you. If the medics are called, and you can't produce a medical insurance card, they also walk away. True or not true?

In the UK people get treated first and questions get asked later, but then we have what they call a welfare state.


Please address My concerns in the health care bill as I was held hostage against My will until I signed. Note back then I was uninsured except by the county, The Hospital(See below) would only accept their coverage or whatever they did allow, Even My brother wouldn't go there as His Government medical coverage wasn't welcome there(He was retired US Navy with just 20 years of Service, He died in 2005, The NAVY and SSA deserted Him in the last two weeks of His life and wanted the final two weeks of the money He was given sent back as He had retirement pay and SSDI as He was Disabled, Cancer claimed His life, He was 61 years old and very frightened and I couldn't be with Him when He died as I live 45 miles away from His Widows house, I could only visit once a month then) and I suspect Medi-Cal/Medicaid isn't either as SSI as I said later on wouldn't pay for any of My medical bills related to 2002.

Desert Valley Hospital
www.dvmc.com

16850 Bear Valley Rd
Victorville, CA 92395
(760) 241-8000

I do know about California or at least the part I've lived in for Most of My life, Paramedics if called by dialing 911 will come and they will transport one to the nearest Hospital, In San Bernardino County if the nearest Hospital is a for profit Hospital they will only take You there, Unless It's full of course then It's on to the next closest Hospital, For Me a "for Profit Hospital" is a Dirty word, As once they get You If You are uninsured or have any form of health insurance that they don't cover and that could/would(does in one case) include Medi-Cal(Medicaid) and so before any treatment happens they want someone to sign on the dotted line(financial responsibility form) and they view You as their property and You have no rights at all(Civil or Constitutionally), You can refuse treatment, At least as long as You can withstand any and all pain, But You will be denied the right to call anyone including a lawyer or the police/sheriff or even Ones relatives until You sign on the dotted line, I had that happen to Me, My civil rights were violated and I was forced to sign under duress back in 2002 and I couldn't leave as I had a broken leg and I was tied down to a gurney unable to move more than My arms, So I was trapped and My right to freedom of choice was ripped from Me. Cause the only alternative was a trip of 44.2 miles one way(52 minutes on the freeway through a mountain pass) or 47.1 miles(1hr 5mins directly over the mountains) in the back of a Pickup Truck and there are no belts there and no seats and I was barely able to keep from slipping into unconsciousness(Shock) and Shock can lead to death as My injury was considered life-threatening(Broken lower left leg). So since I didn't have the money to bankrupt afterwards, I had to endure a $16,000+ bill that kept growing that I could never afford, I was awarded SSI Disability in 2004 and awarded payments back to 2003, But SSI/Medical would not touch My Hospital bill from 2002 at all, So I had to out wait It as My credit such as It was, Was already ruined and since I had a small income below $1800 a month I could not rebuild My credit at all as I couldn't even afford to get a Car loan or even a secured credit card, Today I could barely afford either one, But If I did It I'd have no cushion at all.

Oh and the bill? In California there is a statute of Limitations of 4 years on debt(I looked It up once), So after 2006 I was legally off the hook, In early 2009 It should according to one credit reporting agency be off My credit history entirely, And I didn't go bankrupt once, No one in My family has done that.

That is a barbaric story. I am so sorry you had to go through that.

I hope that a proper debate can be had in the US and you all get the health care you want and deserve.

Just don't listen to what is being said about the NHS. There are no 'death panels'. You get to see a doctor when you need and discuss your care. No one forced you do anything you don't want and you NEVER, EVER, EVER get sent a bill.

It doesn't matter how old, how sick or how poor you are. You get the best treatment available.

I think it is telling that so many people who can easily afford to buy private health insurance here don't, because they know they will get excellent treatment on the NHS.
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Message 29411 - Posted: 16 Aug 2009, 1:35:52 UTC
Last modified: 16 Aug 2009, 1:37:47 UTC

Unfortunately that is the problem with Republican propaganda when reporting on the UK's NHS system. They cannot find real horror stories so they make them up.

In the UK all are covered by the NHS, where a doctor will see people immediately or within 24 hours. If there is a deep clinical problem then GP referral to a specialist consultant usually happens within 1 - 2 weeks (that is my experience). Treatment for the medical problem, where hospital is needed, will be usually withing 4 - 6 weeks for the treatment.

A&E will deal with patients within 1 - 4 hours depending on the load.

The additional choice UK residents have, if they have the money, is to go privately via BUPA, the Nuffield Hospitals, etc.

As I understand the situation that Obama is pushing for is medical cover for all US citizens through a state sponsored (but not necessarily run) medical insurance. For those already with private medical insurance they will continue with that insurance, as this will meet the requirement for medical insurance cover.

The weakness in our cover is dental health, which may be fragmented in areas. Although we have never had any problem obtaining NHS dentist services.
Go away, I was asleep


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zoom314
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Message 29412 - Posted: 16 Aug 2009, 2:15:50 UTC - in response to Message 29410.  
Last modified: 16 Aug 2009, 2:16:40 UTC

How does he know he wouldn't have got the secondary scan on the NHS?


His consultant told him at the time that the NHS does not have the resources/funds to go looking for problems where there are no reported symptoms.

Edit: Although I gather your point is that people still have the choice to use private health care here. One of the lies told to the American people is that we are not allowed to use private health care.


My point was that all UK citizens have the right to free health treatment, whether it be a prescription for a cold medication, or a triple heart bypass. Those that can afford it, or have it paid for them, can use private medical insurance to receive an enhanced level of care.

It is my view that any 21st century society, in any country, should provide free basic medical care to its citizens. Sadly in some 3rd world countries this is just not possible, hence the number of International medical charities. Can you remember Biafra......

How much would it cost for the USA to introduce the equivalent of the NHS? Surely more than Congress can afford or vote through. Politics rule, always have, always will, and all the while innocent people suffer. This is the way of the world we live in. The press of course are as much to blame as anybody else.

We hear in the UK that if you have a heart attack in New York, people will step over you on the sidewalk and ignore you. If the medics are called, and you can't produce a medical insurance card, they also walk away. True or not true?

In the UK people get treated first and questions get asked later, but then we have what they call a welfare state.


Please address My concerns in the health care bill as I was held hostage against My will until I signed. Note back then I was uninsured except by the county, The Hospital(See below) would only accept their coverage or whatever they did allow, Even My brother wouldn't go there as His Government medical coverage wasn't welcome there(He was retired US Navy with just 20 years of Service, He died in 2005, The NAVY and SSA deserted Him in the last two weeks of His life and wanted the final two weeks of the money He was given sent back as He had retirement pay and SSDI as He was Disabled, Cancer claimed His life, He was 61 years old and very frightened and I couldn't be with Him when He died as I live 45 miles away from His Widows house, I could only visit once a month then) and I suspect Medi-Cal/Medicaid isn't either as SSI as I said later on wouldn't pay for any of My medical bills related to 2002.

Desert Valley Hospital
www.dvmc.com

16850 Bear Valley Rd
Victorville, CA 92395
(760) 241-8000

I do know about California or at least the part I've lived in for Most of My life, Paramedics if called by dialing 911 will come and they will transport one to the nearest Hospital, In San Bernardino County if the nearest Hospital is a for profit Hospital they will only take You there, Unless It's full of course then It's on to the next closest Hospital, For Me a "for Profit Hospital" is a Dirty word, As once they get You If You are uninsured or have any form of health insurance that they don't cover and that could/would(does in one case) include Medi-Cal(Medicaid) and so before any treatment happens they want someone to sign on the dotted line(financial responsibility form) and they view You as their property and You have no rights at all(Civil or Constitutionally), You can refuse treatment, At least as long as You can withstand any and all pain, But You will be denied the right to call anyone including a lawyer or the police/sheriff or even Ones relatives until You sign on the dotted line, I had that happen to Me, My civil rights were violated and I was forced to sign under duress back in 2002 and I couldn't leave as I had a broken leg and I was tied down to a gurney unable to move more than My arms, So I was trapped and My right to freedom of choice was ripped from Me. Cause the only alternative was a trip of 44.2 miles one way(52 minutes on the freeway through a mountain pass) or 47.1 miles(1hr 5mins directly over the mountains) in the back of a Pickup Truck and there are no belts there and no seats and I was barely able to keep from slipping into unconsciousness(Shock) and Shock can lead to death as My injury was considered life-threatening(Broken lower left leg). So since I didn't have the money to bankrupt afterwards, I had to endure a $16,000+ bill that kept growing that I could never afford, I was awarded SSI Disability in 2004 and awarded payments back to 2003, But SSI/Medical would not touch My Hospital bill from 2002 at all, So I had to out wait It as My credit such as It was, Was already ruined and since I had a small income below $1800 a month I could not rebuild My credit at all as I couldn't even afford to get a Car loan or even a secured credit card, Today I could barely afford either one, But If I did It I'd have no cushion at all.

Oh and the bill? In California there is a statute of Limitations of 4 years on debt(I looked It up once), So after 2006 I was legally off the hook, In early 2009 It should according to one credit reporting agency be off My credit history entirely, And I didn't go bankrupt once, No one in My family has done that.

That is a barbaric story. I am so sorry you had to go through that.

I hope that a proper debate can be had in the US and you all get the health care you want and deserve.

Just don't listen to what is being said about the NHS. There are no 'death panels'. You get to see a doctor when you need and discuss your care. No one forced you do anything you don't want and you NEVER, EVER, EVER get sent a bill.

It doesn't matter how old, how sick or how poor you are. You get the best treatment available.

I think it is telling that so many people who can easily afford to buy private health insurance here don't, because they know they will get excellent treatment on the NHS.

Don't worry Es, I'm far too intelligent to fall for that load of crap, I trust the System that was approved and signed into law by HRM Queen Elizabeth II, My roots go to the UK and to Ireland, So I don't think something like that would happen there.

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Message 29416 - Posted: 16 Aug 2009, 9:30:51 UTC
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Message 29426 - Posted: 16 Aug 2009, 16:42:53 UTC - in response to Message 29416.  
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Message 29431 - Posted: 16 Aug 2009, 19:57:24 UTC - in response to Message 29426.  
Last modified: 16 Aug 2009, 20:09:43 UTC



PEACE or Pistols...Yer Choice ;-}
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Message 29432 - Posted: 16 Aug 2009, 20:20:50 UTC - in response to Message 29409.  
Last modified: 16 Aug 2009, 20:21:45 UTC

Even 36 mil is shockingly high. But that is not the figure we've been told.

I'm sure the news is different between the countries.

I think you need to check your facts on this. That isn't what is proposed at all.

Read the bill it's in there. All the politicians are denying it but it is in there.


Read this: http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_081209/content/01125108.guest.html

Also; about the painkillers->http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_081109/content/01125108.guest.html
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