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Profilebanditwolf
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Message 8775 - Posted: 20 Jan 2009, 19:47:09 UTC - in response to Message 8773.  

...now we just need way to find out if someone uses false names for his app; let's say something like "stock".


The times should be different unless it's only a minor difference. (that is if the time is included in the result)

Doesn't expecting the unexpected make the unexpected the expected?
If it makes sense, DON'T do it.
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ProfileTravis
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Message 8776 - Posted: 20 Jan 2009, 19:49:06 UTC - in response to Message 8773.  
Last modified: 20 Jan 2009, 19:50:40 UTC

Just to make my spot clear, I have nothing against adding flags or however to see which version is used. It just seems that each step forward is a handfull back.

@ Travis: Do you know which/any specific computers/users are turning in bad results? If the a/an app is known, then that can be eliminated as a good one all the quicker and get the good data flowing sooner. Instead of recompiling a bad app and putting it back out to be used.


The way things are right now it's not possible to tell which applications are returning the bad results (ie, there's no flag or information that says what application is being run). All I know is that there is 1 to 3 bad optimized windows applications out there. The compilation requirements for applications to be awarded credit will let us know which results are coming from which applications, because this will append the applications name/version to the resut, and this will let us find out which are applications are causing problems.


...now we just need way to find out if someone uses false names for his app; let's say something like "stock".


Well if people are just going to be outwardly malicious, I suppose we could just close source the application, not allow optimization and go on from there.

But with the current assimilator/validator changes, so long as we have a decent base of good results, we'll be able to determine bad results and not award them credit.
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Message 8777 - Posted: 20 Jan 2009, 20:02:33 UTC

Could you add something extra in the stock app so that it would be noticed as the true stock.
Doesn't expecting the unexpected make the unexpected the expected?
If it makes sense, DON'T do it.
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ProfileTravis
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Message 8780 - Posted: 20 Jan 2009, 20:47:37 UTC - in response to Message 8777.  

Could you add something extra in the stock app so that it would be noticed as the true stock.


I have, but the majority of our windows users are not using the stock app.
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Message 8782 - Posted: 20 Jan 2009, 20:50:12 UTC

What time will the switch be tonight?

I'm running the 0.07 SEE versions right now and need to switch them.

And could someone post a thread on how to optimize a Windows app, there's a whole thread on how to do linux apps, but not a clue for Windows.
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Message 8783 - Posted: 20 Jan 2009, 20:59:35 UTC - in response to Message 8780.  

Could you add something extra in the stock app so that it would be noticed as the true stock.


I have, but the majority of our windows users are not using the stock app.


Then someone calling their version by 'stock' name won't matter.
Doesn't expecting the unexpected make the unexpected the expected?
If it makes sense, DON'T do it.
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Message 8785 - Posted: 20 Jan 2009, 21:26:08 UTC - in response to Message 8782.  

They are NOT optimizing the app. They are only optimizing the flags for the compiler.
If someone (e.g. Travis) would analyse what the CODE is doing and correct the errors and wrong loops the app would be 4 times faster then the new stock app.
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Message 8786 - Posted: 20 Jan 2009, 21:31:43 UTC - in response to Message 8782.  

What time will the switch be tonight?


main page says 8pm EST.

And could someone post a thread on how to optimize a Windows app, there's a whole thread on how to do linux apps, but not a clue for Windows.


seems Linux people are a bit more open than Windows people... :)
mic.


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ProfileTravis
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Message 8787 - Posted: 20 Jan 2009, 22:00:40 UTC - in response to Message 8785.  
Last modified: 20 Jan 2009, 22:01:29 UTC

They are NOT optimizing the app. They are only optimizing the flags for the compiler.
If someone (e.g. Travis) would analyse what the CODE is doing and correct the errors and wrong loops the app would be 4 times faster then the new stock app.


Actually we did that going from the old application (astronomy_whatever) to milkyway. then versions 1-6 were all code improvements.

Right now we're at a point with the code where we're not sure how to improve its performance much, programatically. And honestly, we're getting results in fast enough that our time is better spent analyzing them than trying to squeeze a few more seconds out of the application.

That being said, we open sourced the code for a reason, if people can find improvements to speed up the code, we really appreciate it when they make it available so we can update the stock app and have everyone benefit.
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Profile[AF>HFR>RR] Black Hole Sun
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Message 8799 - Posted: 21 Jan 2009, 0:52:14 UTC

I just don't understand all that mess, sorry.

This is a scientific project, right ? Results accuracy matters, right ?

So, the project provides a stock app : this should be enough for everyone.

Now, as source code is available, volunteers (thanks to them) try and manage to make the official app even better, faster. Great, thanks again. Really.

These volunteers release optimized apps they offer to the crunchers community. As long as these optimized apps are kept up to date by responsible users who install them on their machines, everything's fine.

Here, from what I understand, the project releases new official apps using the good job from volunteers working on enhancing the stock apps. So what happens ?
Are there irresponsible users out there who install optimized apps and leave them on their own ?

Wouldn't it be logical that responsible users use the optimized apps corresponding to the current version of the stock app ? OK, Travis multiplied the official versions these last days, which means it created some confusion. Yes, each new stock version should have required a corresponding optimized version to send new work. Seems this was not possible for whatever technical or human reason.

So far, from what I understand, stock app is V0.12. Optimized apps are based on V0.7. If Travis plans to release new versions for the next days, the best is to stick on the official app for a moment to let things cool down. Once the version is stable and somewhat durable, then volunteers will probably release new optimized version based on the current official app.

Again, using an optimized app "freezes" any app update initiated by the project server. This means that everyone running an optimized version should frequently check that it is still safe to use it. For people who can't check their hosts that often, the solution is to keep up with the stock app. As simple.

My 2 cents
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ProfileTravis
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Message 8800 - Posted: 21 Jan 2009, 1:34:19 UTC - in response to Message 8799.  


So far, from what I understand, stock app is V0.12. Optimized apps are based on V0.7. If Travis plans to release new versions for the next days, the best is to stick on the official app for a moment to let things cool down. Once the version is stable and somewhat durable, then volunteers will probably release new optimized version based on the current official app.

All the current releases (post 0.8) dealt with compiler flags. The code was left unchanged, until v11 which added the naming system.


Again, using an optimized app "freezes" any app update initiated by the project server. This means that everyone running an optimized version should frequently check that it is still safe to use it. For people who can't check their hosts that often, the solution is to keep up with the stock app. As simple.


Unfortunately it doesn't seem like most of our users have done that, so it seems the only way to get an update of all the old, bad, optimized apps is to deny them credit. However, with the new app naming system in place (assuming people use it correctly), we should be able to not have to make such a sweeping change in the future, and when our new assimilator+validator starts doing error checking people will have to be a little more stringent in testing their optimized versions if they want to get credit for them.
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Message 8801 - Posted: 21 Jan 2009, 2:16:31 UTC - in response to Message 8780.  

Could you add something extra in the stock app so that it would be noticed as the true stock.

I have, but the majority of our windows users are not using the stock app.

Sounds like the majority of windows users read the forums. :)
me@rescam.org
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ProfileTravis
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Message 8802 - Posted: 21 Jan 2009, 2:25:12 UTC - in response to Message 8801.  

Could you add something extra in the stock app so that it would be noticed as the true stock.

I have, but the majority of our windows users are not using the stock app.

Sounds like the majority of windows users read the forums. :)


And check the news :P
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Message 8803 - Posted: 21 Jan 2009, 2:32:06 UTC - in response to Message 8801.  

Could you add something extra in the stock app so that it would be noticed as the true stock.

I have, but the majority of our windows users are not using the stock app.

Sounds like the majority of windows users read the forums. :)


And they probably also would like a working opt app too?

Never surrender and never give up. In the darkest hour there is always hope.

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Message 8804 - Posted: 21 Jan 2009, 3:13:03 UTC - in response to Message 8802.  

Could you add something extra in the stock app so that it would be noticed as the true stock.

I have, but the majority of our windows users are not using the stock app.

Sounds like the majority of windows users read the forums. :)

And check the news :P

I check the news here before I read the morning paper.
me@rescam.org
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Message 8805 - Posted: 21 Jan 2009, 3:14:32 UTC - in response to Message 8803.  

Could you add something extra in the stock app so that it would be noticed as the true stock.

I have, but the majority of our windows users are not using the stock app.

Sounds like the majority of windows users read the forums. :)

And they probably also would like a working opt app too?

Maybe - if they aren't momentarily distracted by ABC, Rosetta and Spinhenge.
me@rescam.org
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Message 8806 - Posted: 21 Jan 2009, 4:11:06 UTC - in response to Message 8805.  

Could you add something extra in the stock app so that it would be noticed as the true stock.

I have, but the majority of our windows users are not using the stock app.

Sounds like the majority of windows users read the forums. :)

And they probably also would like a working opt app too?

Maybe - if they aren't momentarily distracted by ABC, Rosetta and Spinhenge.


or POEM...
mic.


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Message 8807 - Posted: 21 Jan 2009, 6:24:22 UTC - in response to Message 8806.  

Could you add something extra in the stock app so that it would be noticed as the true stock.

I have, but the majority of our windows users are not using the stock app.

Sounds like the majority of windows users read the forums. :)

And they probably also would like a working opt app too?

Maybe - if they aren't momentarily distracted by ABC, Rosetta and Spinhenge.

or POEM...

Not in this case. ;)
me@rescam.org
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Message boards : Number crunching : What applications will be valid?

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